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I think that is is valid approach and I like the weight brackets (nice and clean) as well as the definition based on the rifle configured ready to compete w/o ammunition.
What I have found is that weight can quickly sneak up on you: bi-pods can range from 1/2 pounds to 2 pounds. Barrels 3-6+ pounds, stocks/chassis 2-6+ pounds and it can be tough to figure out the appropriate trade-offs.
There is not as much variability in scopes ... all the good ones approach 2 pounds or greater.
It easy to end up in the heavy class before you know it:
Barrel - 5 lbs
Stock/chassis 5-7 lbs
Action 2 lbs
bottom metal 1/2 pound
Scope/Rings 2 pounds
bipod 1/2-2 pounds
Suppressor - 3/4-1 pounds
Or between 15 and 18 pounds without even trying hard ...
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"GoLite" vs. "GoHeavy" ...
GoLite sitting at 11.2 pounds w/bi-pod
GoHeavy is an AI/AT w/ .243 barrel provided by MileHigh with Premier 3-15 sitting at over 17.5 pounds ...
Both guns shoot 1/4 - 1/2 MOA, the AT is slightly faster shooting Berger 105gr hybrids @ 3,130 fps GoLite is sending them downrange @ 3,080 fps ...
GoLite sitting at 11.2 pounds w/bi-pod
GoHeavy is an AI/AT w/ .243 barrel provided by MileHigh with Premier 3-15 sitting at over 17.5 pounds ...
Both guns shoot 1/4 - 1/2 MOA, the AT is slightly faster shooting Berger 105gr hybrids @ 3,130 fps GoLite is sending them downrange @ 3,080 fps ...
I agree that it's extremely easy for weight to sneak up on a build, which is why itemising everything and assigning approximate weight makes a lot of sense - at least if such things matter to you. Balance is also a consideration. For any rifle not used exclusively from prone I generally want the balance point somewhere between the end of the mag-well and the recoil lug.
I moved towards a lighter weight setup back in 2015. This is my primary comp rifle and the rig I used to win the national and state APSR (https://www.australianprecisionservicerifle.com) titles in 2016:
Surgeon 6.5x47 - 23.5' barrel, Nightforce 4-16. Total weight as pictured 13.2lbs - I can drop the bipod for certain stages and be at 12.3lbs
I won a much heavier rifle, a Nimrod 6.5x47 that weighed 17lbs - the Nimrod is an absolute laser - but I found the combination of extra weight and my inability to adjust to the AICS stock caused real issues during unsupported stages.
There's a lot to be said for pure precision, here's a 7 round and three round group with the Nimrod.
Despite being able to stack lead on holes she was a real pig - and ultimately not a rifle configuration that interests me these days.
After competing with both rifles I've come to realise that a weight range of roughly 13-14.5lbs is about right for the kind of competition shooting I do. As has been stated weight (or perhaps 'felt' weight) is largely a subjective issue, but I suspect that not enough shooters think about it until they've sunk dollars into an anchor.
I've continued to experiment (it's at least half the fun) with weight saving by using the same barrelled action in different configurations - here's an example with a SBR Tikka .308
Top configuration = 11.7lbs, bottom setup is 10.1lbs, they both have pros & cons. It helps to reflect on the fact that each build is designed to accomplish specific objectives which requires a mix of compromises weighted for a primary use case.
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I like those sticks ...
I wonder if there is enough interest to start a ' "GoLite" Rifle - Show'em' thread or if it's too soon and this topic needs to percolate some more??
Maybe this thread wwas started several years ago and we are coming full circle ...
I wonder if there is enough interest to start a ' "GoLite" Rifle - Show'em' thread or if it's too soon and this topic needs to percolate some more??
Maybe this thread wwas started several years ago and we are coming full circle ...
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That thread would certainly interest me but I'm not sure there's all that much interest beyond a small niche.
Love that build, I'm doing something very similar:
-ARC Nucleus
-6 Creedmoor
-Proof 24" Carbon 1:8 with ARC Barloc
-Also ordered a 26" med Palma from PVA
-KRG Bravo (may switch to the new MPA Hybrid as the two are the same weight but you can ADD weight to the MPA if you want it, best of both worlds really)
-Vortex Razor AMG
-ARC M10 rings
-Area 419 brake
Like you, I prefer a lighter rifle and can not wait to try this one out.
-ARC Nucleus
-6 Creedmoor
-Proof 24" Carbon 1:8 with ARC Barloc
-Also ordered a 26" med Palma from PVA
-KRG Bravo (may switch to the new MPA Hybrid as the two are the same weight but you can ADD weight to the MPA if you want it, best of both worlds really)
-Vortex Razor AMG
-ARC M10 rings
-Area 419 brake
Like you, I prefer a lighter rifle and can not wait to try this one out.
This "GoLite" gun from Mile High just shoots. The following is five shots prone off a Bipod at 200 yards and is "typical" of how the gun shoots with 105gr berger hybrids and Varget or H4350:
Notdylan,
I enjoy my AI's they are solid, bomb proof and just work. "When it absolutely, positively has to be shot ... ". I love the 60 degree bolt and wish the Nucleus was out when I started down this path. (ARC announced the Nucleus 3 days after I got my gun from MileHigh.)
That being said, I enjoy shooting this "GoLite" gun more than the AI's The Mausingfield has been bomb proof also ... it just runs and runs.
The proof barrel/Mausingfield has exceeded my expectations. The AI's are more forgiving in prone off a bi-pod w/rear bag but the GoLite gun is easier everywhere else and, as a result, more fun to shoot.
You will love your build ...
I enjoy my AI's they are solid, bomb proof and just work. "When it absolutely, positively has to be shot ... ". I love the 60 degree bolt and wish the Nucleus was out when I started down this path. (ARC announced the Nucleus 3 days after I got my gun from MileHigh.)
That being said, I enjoy shooting this "GoLite" gun more than the AI's The Mausingfield has been bomb proof also ... it just runs and runs.
The proof barrel/Mausingfield has exceeded my expectations. The AI's are more forgiving in prone off a bi-pod w/rear bag but the GoLite gun is easier everywhere else and, as a result, more fun to shoot.
You will love your build ...
It has been a while and between work travel and the weather here in CO I was not able to run the Go-Lite gun out at distance or test it on a barricade. However, last weekend I finally had the opportunity to take the Go-lite gun out to 1,000 yards on steel. In the process of recording actual drops at distance, I took the opportunity to run a comparison of unsupported barricade shooting of the Go-Light gun vs. a "typical" Go-heavy PRS gun. The Go-lite is a 6x47 that now weighs 12.3 pounds with S&B (used to weigh 11.2 with the Leupold Mk6). The other is a stock AI/AT with a BIG FAT 24" Milehigh .243 barrel weighing in at 18-ish pounds. Both guns shoot 1/2" at 200 yards prone off a bi-pod w/rear bag - in other words they both shoot good enough for long-range steel type matches.
Pic of the test:
6 shots each off of the bag at various positions on the barricade (no other bags or support used). All shooting was at 400 yards (same plate used for the barricade stage in a local PRS style match)
Time limit 90 seconds
Final score: Score Go-Lite 4/6 Go-Heavy 5/6
The heavier gun seemed more forgiving of my sloppiness, especially when considering that it has a stock AI trigger at 3.5 lbs and the Go-lite gun trigger is much lighter. The Go-Lite much easier to maneuver around the barricade ... but then you have to really pay attention and be on your game.
I need to do some more testing but I can see how certain shooting venues will favor a 20 lb gun with a light trigger and others will favor a lighter gun and as competitions go, I expect some competitors will build optimized rigs for specific match layouts.
At this point, the Go-Light gun is a lot more fun to shoot but less forgiving of lazy shooter inputs. It definitely has the advantage where movement between shots is required or shooting off-hand. I definitely need to do more testing with a sling, shooting sticks and tripods but I would say that if you are shooting a match where little or no movement is required between shots, then a heavier gun behaves more like an emplaced artillery piece and is more forgiving of "nervous and jerky" shooter mistakes.
Pic of the test:
6 shots each off of the bag at various positions on the barricade (no other bags or support used). All shooting was at 400 yards (same plate used for the barricade stage in a local PRS style match)
Time limit 90 seconds
Final score: Score Go-Lite 4/6 Go-Heavy 5/6
The heavier gun seemed more forgiving of my sloppiness, especially when considering that it has a stock AI trigger at 3.5 lbs and the Go-lite gun trigger is much lighter. The Go-Lite much easier to maneuver around the barricade ... but then you have to really pay attention and be on your game.
I need to do some more testing but I can see how certain shooting venues will favor a 20 lb gun with a light trigger and others will favor a lighter gun and as competitions go, I expect some competitors will build optimized rigs for specific match layouts.
At this point, the Go-Light gun is a lot more fun to shoot but less forgiving of lazy shooter inputs. It definitely has the advantage where movement between shots is required or shooting off-hand. I definitely need to do more testing with a sling, shooting sticks and tripods but I would say that if you are shooting a match where little or no movement is required between shots, then a heavier gun behaves more like an emplaced artillery piece and is more forgiving of "nervous and jerky" shooter mistakes.
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I like this line of yours. So question...
Do you think heavy guns encourage lazy shooter inputs, given the rifle is accurate and the weight can mask some shooter mistakes?
And on the other side
Do lighter weight rifles improve concentration, shooter inputs, shooter repeatability? Because without it, accuracy (maybe) suffers?
PFG, I wouldn't say that heavy guns encourage lazy shooting. I would say that we all try our best but make mistakes and we all get tired as the day wears on.
You could also ask: Does lugging a heavy rifle around increase your cardio or build more muscle mass - I doubt it.
I believe that heavier guns increases shooter fatigue depending on the movement required and depending on the situation they are generally easier to shoot well.
That being said, I also believe that shooting a lighter gun will definitely help you to hone your skills as you have to pay really close attention to the fundamentals for it to work out - every time. If there is something amiss the light gun will let you know - every time.
You could also ask: Does lugging a heavy rifle around increase your cardio or build more muscle mass - I doubt it.
I believe that heavier guns increases shooter fatigue depending on the movement required and depending on the situation they are generally easier to shoot well.
That being said, I also believe that shooting a lighter gun will definitely help you to hone your skills as you have to pay really close attention to the fundamentals for it to work out - every time. If there is something amiss the light gun will let you know - every time.
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I will say that shooting the Go-Lite is definitely more fun ... I smile every time I pick it up.
I think maybe another thing to take into consideration might be what level the shooter is.
If you're a beginner and have options, maybe running a lighter rifle is adding a little too much to your plate in the midst of trying to form a stable position on a barricade or rooftop. So perhaps start with a heavier rifle and then once fundamentals are down, move to a lighter rifle to really focus those in.
If you're a beginner and have options, maybe running a lighter rifle is adding a little too much to your plate in the midst of trying to form a stable position on a barricade or rooftop. So perhaps start with a heavier rifle and then once fundamentals are down, move to a lighter rifle to really focus those in.
Nice rifle OP. Dont let one short round test dissuade you from the lighter gun. A bit of practice with it will pay dividends.
Ive followed this thread from the beginning, as light rifles are a passion of mine. My current belle is the 6.5 Fix, 10# without the can, 11 with. Includes 4-16 ATACR and harris bipod. Adding the better Eilite Iron bipod ups the weight. Switching to 308, drops a pound, but is obviously less competitive in most arenas.
Prior to that, I have had a host of custom traditional rifle builds, with the lightest coming in at 4.5#. Before anyone asks, it was a Kifaru Rambling Rifle, obviously not very useful for precision rifle endevors, though it was quite accurate.
I think that when supported, a heavier rifle is a no brainer, and will pretty much always be easier to shoot. Add in any real world issues though, and the lighter weight guns can start to shine. Just depends on what those issues are, and where you draw the line for your needs and wants. I love the Fix off of barricades, let alone true positional shooting with or without a sling.
There is also no question that heavier guns mask shooter errors. Shooting well is simple, but it is not easy. If it werent for heavy guns, most people would not be able to shoot a sub moa group to post on the internet. When you can shoot a 7# rifle, all up, and keep .75 moa or better, then you know you have some solid fundamentals. Not easy to find a gun that can do that, but some of my Kimbers have. Not most of them though, and I wouldnt recommend a Kimber today. The new Barrett looks really interesting to me, and I'll have to try it out. The Fix is slightly heavier, but it is consistently more accurate, and the groups don't walk, even up to 20 or 25 rd strings.
The thing is, if your interests are practical, rather than benchrest, a lighter gun offers more than a heavier gun, as usually 1 moa will get it done. True 1 moa rifles are still not super common, and are nothing to sneeze at, especially with ammo that will get the job done on the other end.
Ive been experimenting with a RRS setup, and for the first time, I can hold sub moa off a tripod standing. Pretty amazing, but that capability adds another 5 pounds or so, so then you are back to heavy, one way or another. Better to save some weight in the gun, I think.
Sorry for the rambling, but I really like light handy guns, especially accurate ones.
Ive followed this thread from the beginning, as light rifles are a passion of mine. My current belle is the 6.5 Fix, 10# without the can, 11 with. Includes 4-16 ATACR and harris bipod. Adding the better Eilite Iron bipod ups the weight. Switching to 308, drops a pound, but is obviously less competitive in most arenas.
Prior to that, I have had a host of custom traditional rifle builds, with the lightest coming in at 4.5#. Before anyone asks, it was a Kifaru Rambling Rifle, obviously not very useful for precision rifle endevors, though it was quite accurate.
I think that when supported, a heavier rifle is a no brainer, and will pretty much always be easier to shoot. Add in any real world issues though, and the lighter weight guns can start to shine. Just depends on what those issues are, and where you draw the line for your needs and wants. I love the Fix off of barricades, let alone true positional shooting with or without a sling.
There is also no question that heavier guns mask shooter errors. Shooting well is simple, but it is not easy. If it werent for heavy guns, most people would not be able to shoot a sub moa group to post on the internet. When you can shoot a 7# rifle, all up, and keep .75 moa or better, then you know you have some solid fundamentals. Not easy to find a gun that can do that, but some of my Kimbers have. Not most of them though, and I wouldnt recommend a Kimber today. The new Barrett looks really interesting to me, and I'll have to try it out. The Fix is slightly heavier, but it is consistently more accurate, and the groups don't walk, even up to 20 or 25 rd strings.
The thing is, if your interests are practical, rather than benchrest, a lighter gun offers more than a heavier gun, as usually 1 moa will get it done. True 1 moa rifles are still not super common, and are nothing to sneeze at, especially with ammo that will get the job done on the other end.
Ive been experimenting with a RRS setup, and for the first time, I can hold sub moa off a tripod standing. Pretty amazing, but that capability adds another 5 pounds or so, so then you are back to heavy, one way or another. Better to save some weight in the gun, I think.
Sorry for the rambling, but I really like light handy guns, especially accurate ones.
Thank you SLG. I find the that I do best with the guns I most shoot. I am really enjoying this Go-Lite gun and am shooting it more.
As for shooting precision tactical matches and what is best for new shooters or any shooters I say: get a gun that you "trust", one that will dependably shoot 1/2 MOA (off a bench) and then go out and shoot tens of 1,000's of rounds through it. Its funny, I know steel plate shooters that spend a lot of time and money chasing 1/8-1/4 MOA loads. I do it, most of us do it , its kind of fun. But we would all be better off with a 1/2-1MOA load and lots of practice at distance in the wind. A shooter who can hold 1 MOA and dope the wind to 1 MOA will win the match - every time.
I have been guilty of trying to "buy" additional points with the latest/better/cooler equipment - nothing wrong with this as its also fun. The Go-Lite project is an attempt to create a rifle that is not a one-off or purpose built gun but one that is fun to shoot , take hunting and use in "real-world" settings and one that is capable of holding its own in a PRS match.
As for shooting precision tactical matches and what is best for new shooters or any shooters I say: get a gun that you "trust", one that will dependably shoot 1/2 MOA (off a bench) and then go out and shoot tens of 1,000's of rounds through it. Its funny, I know steel plate shooters that spend a lot of time and money chasing 1/8-1/4 MOA loads. I do it, most of us do it , its kind of fun. But we would all be better off with a 1/2-1MOA load and lots of practice at distance in the wind. A shooter who can hold 1 MOA and dope the wind to 1 MOA will win the match - every time.
I have been guilty of trying to "buy" additional points with the latest/better/cooler equipment - nothing wrong with this as its also fun. The Go-Lite project is an attempt to create a rifle that is not a one-off or purpose built gun but one that is fun to shoot , take hunting and use in "real-world" settings and one that is capable of holding its own in a PRS match.
I would say Bergara HMR is a decent factory off-the-shelf "Go-Lite-ish" gun. The premier version is also interesting ...
Tikka t3x compact tactical should be looked at ...
Note there are folks on the Hide that are MUCH better equipped than I am to answer the question what is the best "off-the-shelf" factory Go-Lite rifle (less than 10 lbs and less than $2,000).
Tikka t3x compact tactical should be looked at ...
Note there are folks on the Hide that are MUCH better equipped than I am to answer the question what is the best "off-the-shelf" factory Go-Lite rifle (less than 10 lbs and less than $2,000).
That Tikka CTR was the first that came to mind. I think the Seekins Havak may have a place there too. Didn't consider the Bergara offering. Good call out. Enjoying this thread - thanks for keeping it updated.
I have a friend who is a very accomplished PRS shooter and experimented with the Bergara. He took a Begara 14-HMR in 6.5 Creedmore ($980.00) and some factory ammo and put a burris XTR II on top and placed second in the first match that he shot it in. That made some competitors that showed up with $8-$10k rigs a little upset. His Bergara shoots hornady ammo 1/2-3/4 MOA but most importantly, he does a decent job of reading the wind.
All any of us really need to win a PRS style match is a gun that will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA and good wind doping skills.
Again, if you have a 1 MOA gun ( or a gun that you can consistently hold 1 MOA ) and can read the wind to 1 MOA you will win any match every time.
With this project I was trying to see how light I could make a "useable" match rifle. You can build a match rifle that weighs in at under 10 pounds w/optics ready-to-go but there are trade-offs. I could have reduced the weight by a pound by dumping the adjustable cheek piece but this makes the gun much harder to shoot consistently (less useful for match shooting) and I didn't want to go the duct tape and foam rout. I could have saved 1/2 pound with a titanium action but didn't want to wait. I reduced weight almost a pound using a Leupold MK 6 over a S&B but then needed a better scope for my tactical .22 ... and the S&B has some advantages over the Mk 6 ...
In terms of reducing weight you get the best bang for your buck:
1 - barrel
2 - stock/chassis (some might say this is first)
3 - scope
4 - action
Oh yeah, I could have purchased 4 - 5 Bergara HMR's for what this cost ... but then who has time to shoot 5 rifles? Rifles are like women, they require time and money ...
All any of us really need to win a PRS style match is a gun that will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA and good wind doping skills.
Again, if you have a 1 MOA gun ( or a gun that you can consistently hold 1 MOA ) and can read the wind to 1 MOA you will win any match every time.
With this project I was trying to see how light I could make a "useable" match rifle. You can build a match rifle that weighs in at under 10 pounds w/optics ready-to-go but there are trade-offs. I could have reduced the weight by a pound by dumping the adjustable cheek piece but this makes the gun much harder to shoot consistently (less useful for match shooting) and I didn't want to go the duct tape and foam rout. I could have saved 1/2 pound with a titanium action but didn't want to wait. I reduced weight almost a pound using a Leupold MK 6 over a S&B but then needed a better scope for my tactical .22 ... and the S&B has some advantages over the Mk 6 ...
In terms of reducing weight you get the best bang for your buck:
1 - barrel
2 - stock/chassis (some might say this is first)
3 - scope
4 - action
Oh yeah, I could have purchased 4 - 5 Bergara HMR's for what this cost ... but then who has time to shoot 5 rifles? Rifles are like women, they require time and money ...
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I've been shaving weight off of my builds for years and am yet to regret going lighter. Latest build comes in at 12.5 pounds inc bipod.
I like the Tikka's as a base for a lighter weight build - the action seems lighter than others and there are options like carbon fibre bolt knobs that are user swappable - this one with a 22' 6.5x47 Hardy barrel
I like the Tikka's as a base for a lighter weight build - the action seems lighter than others and there are options like carbon fibre bolt knobs that are user swappable - this one with a 22' 6.5x47 Hardy barrel
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For both your heavy and light rifles, you might want to consider shooting standing stages "olympic style". I currently am using a very light Christensen TFM for PRS (in 6.5 Creedmoor), but will be building a heavy rifle this summer on a Nucleus action and I don't think I'll have too much more trouble standing if I use an olympic style stance.
Now this does require a bit of flexibility, but if you lean back a little bit you can actually get your elbow set onto your hip bone. It's how they taught me to shoot standing (for competition, not for hunting or anything like that) when I was in 4H growing up. With your elbow on your hip bone and the left hand just in front of the magazine you end up with a near-vertical position for the arm braced against your body for support, which I found works well with both heavy and light rifles.
I realize I probably won't be able to keep doing this after another 15-30 more years have passed, but for now it's the most stable way I can find to shoot while standing if I'm shooting a sub-30 cal non-magnum rifle (tried it once with a 7-mag and ended up on my ass, since you have to do a chick lean a ways back to make it work). It looks stupid as hell, but if you can contort yourself enough to make it work it's pretty effective (everybody at the 4H national match who was standing without a shooting jacket or a sling was shooting this way).
Here's a biathlon shooter doing exactly what I described:
Works a lot better with a short length of pull than a long one. My rifle has a pretty long length of pull (since that's what fits me normally), so it means I lean back slightly more than the biathlon person above just to get the CoG of myself and the rifle in the right spot. Looks really stupid, but if it works it works.
Now this does require a bit of flexibility, but if you lean back a little bit you can actually get your elbow set onto your hip bone. It's how they taught me to shoot standing (for competition, not for hunting or anything like that) when I was in 4H growing up. With your elbow on your hip bone and the left hand just in front of the magazine you end up with a near-vertical position for the arm braced against your body for support, which I found works well with both heavy and light rifles.
I realize I probably won't be able to keep doing this after another 15-30 more years have passed, but for now it's the most stable way I can find to shoot while standing if I'm shooting a sub-30 cal non-magnum rifle (tried it once with a 7-mag and ended up on my ass, since you have to do a chick lean a ways back to make it work). It looks stupid as hell, but if you can contort yourself enough to make it work it's pretty effective (everybody at the 4H national match who was standing without a shooting jacket or a sling was shooting this way).
Here's a biathlon shooter doing exactly what I described:
Works a lot better with a short length of pull than a long one. My rifle has a pretty long length of pull (since that's what fits me normally), so it means I lean back slightly more than the biathlon person above just to get the CoG of myself and the rifle in the right spot. Looks really stupid, but if it works it works.
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I shot service rifle across the course once or twice a long time ago and as part of my comparison, I did to a quick and dirty test of the GoLite vs. GoHeavy rifles standing offhand: 5 shots @ 200 yards on a 8" plate in 60 seconds using a position like the first picture above. There was no contest - the GoLite was SO MUCH easier over 5 shots than the heavy rifle with the time pressure.
With more time (standing slow fire) to rest between shots the heavy gun might have been more manageable and done better.
With more time (standing slow fire) to rest between shots the heavy gun might have been more manageable and done better.
I find that reasonable shooting can be done with an Olympic position and a heavy rifle...but a lighter weight rifle, meaning one that doesn't seem heavy to you, is much better. Especially when more than a shot or two needs to be taken.
Completely understandable, just figured I'd throw that tidbit in there as something to help in case you were shooting "tactical style" with the elbow in and your left arm stretched out near the front of the forend. That technique is good for mobility and minimizing the size of the target you present, but not so great for stability when trying to be precise. It's also what I see most people use when shooting from a standing position, likely because it doesn't feel as strange as the olympic/service rifle style of accurate shooting.
I can shoot a light gun okay-ish (good enough to hunt with from 100 yards and in) with my left arm stretched out and right elbow tucked, and it's honestly the way I usually shoot when hunting if I need to take a quick shot and can't brace against a rock or tree or something. I have no hope, however, of shooting a heavy gun that way.
Nice. I didn’t know that was available separate. I just ordered one. Thanks for the idea.
I was gonna order some kydex cheek kit but went this route. Price seems right. Should work good I hope.I have two now and they are excellent - super lightweight and very tough.
MHSA smiths have built me 3 sub 10 lb rifles over the past several years, all shooters.
How do you attach them, and what stock are you using? Is the open width correct, or did you adjust it somehow?
I'm going to try the same thing except with a 28" barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor, MPA Hybrid folder and different optics.
I'm thinking I might wind up less than 12 lbs, I'm not quite sure.
Hopefully the 6. 5mm bore will increase my barrel life a bit and the 28" will give me some extra velocity.
Here is another shameless plug for MileHigh and the "GoLite" approach:
After seeing how well my GoLite 6x47 shot, my father HAD to have one ... for "deer overwatch" this coming hunting season:
Picture of the rifle he had Mile High build, on the counter the day it was delivered.
Specs:
.280 AI
Mausingfield Long Action
24" Proof barrel
Manners MCS-EH2
Jewel Trigger @ 2lbs
S&B PM II 5x25 P4 fine in MOA
He was surprised at how "light and tight" it felt. Mostly he was impressed with how it shoots (3 shots 168gr accubond LR) 2,978 fps at 100 yards:
I know some will say 3 shots does not a group make but not bad for a "deer rifle".
There was a shooter at the range playing with a 30 lbs 6.5x47 F-Class gun who was gushing that his rifle "typically shot in the 2's and 3's". I didn't have the heart to tell him that this .280 "shoots in the 1's and 2's" ...
GoLite = Fun ...
After seeing how well my GoLite 6x47 shot, my father HAD to have one ... for "deer overwatch" this coming hunting season:
Picture of the rifle he had Mile High build, on the counter the day it was delivered.
Specs:
.280 AI
Mausingfield Long Action
24" Proof barrel
Manners MCS-EH2
Jewel Trigger @ 2lbs
S&B PM II 5x25 P4 fine in MOA
He was surprised at how "light and tight" it felt. Mostly he was impressed with how it shoots (3 shots 168gr accubond LR) 2,978 fps at 100 yards:
I know some will say 3 shots does not a group make but not bad for a "deer rifle".
There was a shooter at the range playing with a 30 lbs 6.5x47 F-Class gun who was gushing that his rifle "typically shot in the 2's and 3's". I didn't have the heart to tell him that this .280 "shoots in the 1's and 2's" ...
GoLite = Fun ...
Update on the Mile High "Go-Lite" project - First match results:
I decided to take the gun to a local steel match with targets from 75 - 1,250 yards. To date, I have only shot the gun to 200 yards and thought that maybe I could kill two birds with one stone and get some long-range truing data for the rifle while shooting the match. So I showed up with a good 100 yard zero and a muzzle velocity and Shooter on my iPhone.
Lessons learned:
1.) Its better to show up with your dope all sorted out a head of time - gun connected out to 800 yards but I did not hit anything beyond that and there was no splash or feedback on those longer stages so my plan/hope of getting truing data during the match was "opimistic" at best.
2.) The mausingfield action ran flawlessly
3.) The gun was is very easy to maneuver and I only dropped one point on the barricade stage - it's all phycological but I was thinking as I was moving the rifle around the barricade - "Man, this gun is easy to shoot."
I decided to take the gun to a local steel match with targets from 75 - 1,250 yards. To date, I have only shot the gun to 200 yards and thought that maybe I could kill two birds with one stone and get some long-range truing data for the rifle while shooting the match. So I showed up with a good 100 yard zero and a muzzle velocity and Shooter on my iPhone.
Lessons learned:
1.) Its better to show up with your dope all sorted out a head of time - gun connected out to 800 yards but I did not hit anything beyond that and there was no splash or feedback on those longer stages so my plan/hope of getting truing data during the match was "opimistic" at best.
2.) The mausingfield action ran flawlessly
3.) The gun was is very easy to maneuver and I only dropped one point on the barricade stage - it's all phycological but I was thinking as I was moving the rifle around the barricade - "Man, this gun is easy to shoot."
I was actually inspired by this thread and I’ve got a TL3 that should be here hopefully next week. I took a slightly different approach though. I have a marksman contour 6.5 to compete with, then switch to a hunter type profile or proof barrel for hunting, haven’t decided yet. Reason I’m doing that is because I chose the kmw sentinel stock as I’ve absolutely always been in love with the stock, so I figure the barrel profile is the next best place to cut weight.
I would revise that to:
Light: 12lbs and under
Medium: 12.5-15lbs
Normal: 15+ lbs
: )
Light: 12lbs and under
Medium: 12.5-15lbs
Normal: 15+ lbs
: )
Did the hardware that came with it work with your stock or did it need different screws?
I believe it came with hardware but it's been a few years and I can't be sure - my smith installed it while he had my rifles for barrel work.
I mentioned on page 1 we were considering a Proof carbon barrel on my wife's 6 creed re barrel to save a little weight for her and because of my accuracy success with 2 Proof lite sendero carbon wrapped barrels on hunting rifles.
Again we have a tact driver with a Proof barrel. She shoots half min groups and I'm able to do a little better with Hornady 108 ELD Match factory ammuntion. She took the rifle to 1200 yards last week and shot 5 rounds about .5moa on a 24'' plate in a 5mph crosswind.
I can't commit on actual weight of the rifle or how the rifle handles on barricades. She mainly shoots prone and some shorter distances off tri pod to stay sharp for hunting season. I can say, one can expect exceptional accuracy out of ones rifle with a Proof barrel. For my rifle, I will certainly be looking at a Proof carbon wrapped barrel come re barrel time.
Again we have a tact driver with a Proof barrel. She shoots half min groups and I'm able to do a little better with Hornady 108 ELD Match factory ammuntion. She took the rifle to 1200 yards last week and shot 5 rounds about .5moa on a 24'' plate in a 5mph crosswind.
I can't commit on actual weight of the rifle or how the rifle handles on barricades. She mainly shoots prone and some shorter distances off tri pod to stay sharp for hunting season. I can say, one can expect exceptional accuracy out of ones rifle with a Proof barrel. For my rifle, I will certainly be looking at a Proof carbon wrapped barrel come re barrel time.
How was the mirage? Thanks
I have not noticed that it heats up more or any faster than a steel barrel. I would say that they are the same and that the mirage is the same.
I will say that the carbon barrel distributes the heat more evenly (not sure that this matters) than my steel barrels. Steel barrels tend to have more heat in the breech after a 10 or 20 shot string than the carbon barrel. I would bet that the carbon barrel will radiate out heat faster (e.g. cool faster) ... someone with more barrels than me should test this- test the same contour, fluted, unfluted and carbon: same caliber, same load, shoot 20 shots, take temp every minute and graph it out.
I'm actually very impressed with the proof research barrel. They are every bit as accurate as my other match barrels (Lilja, Shilen, Obermeyer, Krieger, Bartlein, Rock etc). The P.O.I and precision of the proof barrel does not wander as it heats up which was my biggest concern. The proof mostly looks cool (IMHO) and greatly improves the handling, weight and balance of the rifle.
I will say that the carbon barrel distributes the heat more evenly (not sure that this matters) than my steel barrels. Steel barrels tend to have more heat in the breech after a 10 or 20 shot string than the carbon barrel. I would bet that the carbon barrel will radiate out heat faster (e.g. cool faster) ... someone with more barrels than me should test this- test the same contour, fluted, unfluted and carbon: same caliber, same load, shoot 20 shots, take temp every minute and graph it out.
I'm actually very impressed with the proof research barrel. They are every bit as accurate as my other match barrels (Lilja, Shilen, Obermeyer, Krieger, Bartlein, Rock etc). The P.O.I and precision of the proof barrel does not wander as it heats up which was my biggest concern. The proof mostly looks cool (IMHO) and greatly improves the handling, weight and balance of the rifle.
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300ATT, thank you. You've inspired me. I've been researching for a project of my own and agonizing over everything. Everything. Only thing I was confident on was I wanted CRF, and that means mausingfield. Your project here just takes the guesswork out of everything. Mausing field supposedly comes in a magnum length action, yes? That works with AI mags at 3.85" OAL?
I'd just love to copy what you've done nearly-directly, in my own chosen cartridge.
I'd just love to copy what you've done nearly-directly, in my own chosen cartridge.
Whiterabbit,
I am not sure if the long action Mausingfield uses AI magazines - the .280 AI my father built uses single stack mags. You could call Mile High and they can sort you out on that question.
I use the ARC magazines that start double stack then taper to single stack in my short action Mausingfield 6x47 and they function flawlessly. The other CRF action you might look at is the BigHorn TL3 ... I had one of the early Big Horn actions (not CRF) and they make a great action.
I will say this: Both the 6x47 and the .280 AI "Go-Lite" guns that were built at MileHigh are the most accurate rifles that we own. They are about 10-11 pounds (with optics) but are solid and just hammer. Both rifles have "good Karma" that you can feel when you pick them up and are great fun to shoot. My father has owned 100's of rifles (including Holland and Holland African doubles) and likes his "Go-Lite" 280 AI the best. Both guns are sub 1/4 MOA, the .280 AI is 1/4-1/3 MOA with factory ammo (hornady and nosler).
This project has been great fun but I understand the agonizing, getting the trade-offs right is the big challenge as every little bit quickly adds up. You have constantly ask - "Is this ounce worth it?"
Good luck!
I am not sure if the long action Mausingfield uses AI magazines - the .280 AI my father built uses single stack mags. You could call Mile High and they can sort you out on that question.
I use the ARC magazines that start double stack then taper to single stack in my short action Mausingfield 6x47 and they function flawlessly. The other CRF action you might look at is the BigHorn TL3 ... I had one of the early Big Horn actions (not CRF) and they make a great action.
I will say this: Both the 6x47 and the .280 AI "Go-Lite" guns that were built at MileHigh are the most accurate rifles that we own. They are about 10-11 pounds (with optics) but are solid and just hammer. Both rifles have "good Karma" that you can feel when you pick them up and are great fun to shoot. My father has owned 100's of rifles (including Holland and Holland African doubles) and likes his "Go-Lite" 280 AI the best. Both guns are sub 1/4 MOA, the .280 AI is 1/4-1/3 MOA with factory ammo (hornady and nosler).
This project has been great fun but I understand the agonizing, getting the trade-offs right is the big challenge as every little bit quickly adds up. You have constantly ask - "Is this ounce worth it?"
Good luck!
Took the "GoLite" gun to the range test out 108gr hornady ELD-X bullets for an upcoming deer hunt in UT this weekend. Used the same load of H4350 that I use for 105gr Bergers - noted a slight shift when shot through the SAS suppressor. Shot off a bench at 100 yards.
Got to love a well-put-together rifle:
I will upload some pics of the hunt and the results ... not so much a hunt as it will be "deer overwatch" ...
Got to love a well-put-together rifle:
I will upload some pics of the hunt and the results ... not so much a hunt as it will be "deer overwatch" ...
