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Great analysis of electric cars

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
This uses Tesla as an example, but applies to all EV’s. Just that the left has a hard-on for Elon Musk since he crapped in their Twitter sandbox. So it’s a pile-on to trash Tesla. Any EV has the same basic breakdown. Including hybrids.

But this is a great analysis of the “real” footprint of an EV!


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How dare you!

Sirhr
 
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Ya but instant torque and No maintenance is awesome😂
Tires wear out faster due to the added weight. They still have coolant that needs to be changed. The AC system is also used to cool the battery in hot weather so there is maintenance for the AC system on an EV that typically is never done on a gas car. The claim of no maintenance is a lie.
 
Tesla has gone away from using Cobalt for years now. And just a FYI most Tesla owners are not some flaming libtard tree hugger. I know quite a few that are hardcore hotrodders that have huge car collections. And most of them would say they make sense for a daily driver for MOST people.
 
^^^ as the article says… if you want an electric car, hell buy one. But stop making it a virtue signal AND making the rest of us pay for it.

It’s another means of propulsion. Not some magic green fairy dust unicorn fart planet saving free energy magic car. It’s a car. If it has wheels, wings or keels… I’m for it.

And Tesla rocks. Though I Don’t care about their cars. It’s their patent portfolio that I care about! GM with its useless electric vehicles and billions in taxpayer funding? They can FO with that crap. Not to mention useless Prius’s.

Sirhr
 
Cut the gubment susidy of EV's and see how many get bought. I never see an EV but if i go a couple counties over I see a good many....as well as Ukraine flags, tolerance yard signs and the other badges of the liberal ilk. I do have conservative friend from tobacco farm upbringing that has one just for the acceleration like Baccarat notes above but I have to disagree that most Tesla owners are not tree hugging liberals. That is not my observation.
 
This why I consider all ev owners environmental terrorists

ETA you cannot "recycle" these it's into the landill so they can leak leachates of heavy metals into the water aquifers.

Car and Driver published an article about a year ago outlining the recycling process.

Tesla ranks near the bottom in problems reported. I can see myself owning an EV once the quality dramatically improves and charging is as quick and available as dino fuel. Doubt I'll live that long.
 
Car and Driver published an article about a year ago outlining the recycling process.

Tesla ranks near the bottom in problems reported. I can see myself owning an EV once the quality dramatically improves and charging is as quick and available as dino fuel. Doubt I'll live that long.

The "recycle" process is a little like how plastic is recycled. Do some deep digging.
 
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I always love seeing people parrot this information having no idea if it's correct or not. Fuel consumption ain't even close. Who uses one machine to mine...

These posts are amusing because nobody cares about facts as long as it fits your narrative.
 
Cut the gubment susidy of EV's and see how many get bought. I never see an EV but if i go a couple counties over I see a good many....as well as Ukraine flags, tolerance yard signs and the other badges of the liberal ilk. I do have conservative friend from tobacco farm upbringing that has one just for the acceleration like Baccarat notes above but I have to disagree that most Tesla owners are not tree hugging liberals. That is not my observation.

Look to Germany and you will see what happens when the .gov stops handing over your money for other peoples transportation desires. The market fell almost 25%.

People don't want this stuff, it really does not work in the most perfect conditions, then add cold or anything else and it just becomes useless. Then if they have some kind of issue with them like the Mach-E an "over the air" update will come and hit your car without you knowing about it cutting its ability. Look into that one as well.

 
I always love seeing people parrot this information having no idea if it's correct or not. Fuel consumption ain't even close. Who uses one machine to mine...

These posts are amusing because nobody cares about facts as long as it fits your narrative.

I don’t dispute that the original list I posted is incomplete. In fact it is probably far, far worse than what is listed above.

But hard to engage dialog with a 320 page report on how bad EV’s are. Because everyone will write TLDR. And said report probably won’t exist because scientists are not being paid to research the downside of the magical free energy world where we make the weather gooder by mining cobalt.

If we had “science” on our side we would all be running diesels. Hybrids would run off micro turbines spinning at 20k rpm’s. And General
motors would never have produced the VOLT because they would have been shuttered in 2008 when they were supposed to fail.

But your point is well taken! Science by memes is not science. It is propaganda. Guilty!

Sirhr
 
I always love seeing people parrot this information having no idea if it's correct or not. Fuel consumption ain't even close. Who uses one machine to mine...

These posts are amusing because nobody cares about facts as long as it fits your narrative.
"Facts" are quite interesting. I am not an EV "hater" however I do say they are not the answer to every question. Currently there is no other product on the market that will explode just sitting in a parking spot. This is a fact, it happens no one can debate that. And it happens to all of them. We also know the facts around the repair on these vehicles, costs are much higher. The big thing for the .gov is the tax they are loosing on them. For a very long time the gasoline tax has paid for roads and such. EV's don't "pay their fair share" and that is just now starting to get a spotlight on it. And it is quite interesting as well as EV users are going to start to get hit with a yearly 5 figure tax come license plate time. Paying .50 per gal over the year is something most people are use to, having to produce that much in a lump sum will hurt. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

The "narrative" is pretty clear, just googling EV new road tax will give you tax credit info, there is a clear push in every form of media to promote EV's. Parking garages are starting to limit the parking of EV's because of the weight of the vehicles.
 
"Facts" are quite interesting. I am not an EV "hater" however I do say they are not the answer to every question. Currently there is no other product on the market that will explode just sitting in a parking spot. This is a fact, it happens no one can debate that. And it happens to all of them. We also know the facts around the repair on these vehicles, costs are much higher. The big thing for the .gov is the tax they are loosing on them. For a very long time the gasoline tax has paid for roads and such. EV's don't "pay their fair share" and that is just now starting to get a spotlight on it. And it is quite interesting as well as EV users are going to start to get hit with a yearly 5 figure tax come license plate time. Paying .50 per gal over the year is something most people are use to, having to produce that much in a lump sum will hurt. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

The "narrative" is pretty clear, just googling EV new road tax will give you tax credit info, there is a clear push in every form of media to promote EV's. Parking garages are starting to limit the parking of EV's because of the weight of the vehicles.

You really need to your own research on this.

If you want to talk about cost of repairing cars, that's what I do for a living. I approve repairs all day long. You know how often I see a Tesla or electric car that needs a actual repair? Pretty rare compared to that of ICE vehicles.
 
You really need to your own research on this.

If you want to talk about cost of repairing cars, that's what I do for a living. I approve repairs all day long. You know how often I see a Tesla or electric car that needs a actual repair? Pretty rare compared to that of ICE vehicles.
You also don't repair it if it is totaled. How often are electric cars totaled in similar style accidents vs petrol?
 
How do we tally up all the toxins released when they catch fire and burn for 2 days. They're almost impossible to put out. We won't park them in our shop overnight
 
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This feels like the steam engine lobby of the early 20th century trying so hard to avoid the inevitable :ROFLMAO:
 
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You really need to your own research on this.

If you want to talk about cost of repairing cars, that's what I do for a living. I approve repairs all day long. You know how often I see a Tesla or electric car that needs a actual repair? Pretty rare compared to that of ICE vehicles.
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Let me just say up front, I don't give two shits about "climate change" or my carbon footprint. The bigger, the better.

These soulless, boring, appliance like EV's are a joke. The manufacturers lied and the government lied about their capabilities and benefits. I have yet to see ONE public charging station anywhere. True, I don't live in a city shithole like NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. But even there, you have to wait 30 minutes to charge up your piece of shit electric while the other gullible morons behind you wait impatiently. Try driving more than 200 miles or towing any significant weight like you can on any gas powered truck and let me know how that goes. To think these environmental faggots actually think we'll all be driving EV's in 10 years, LOL.
 
This feels like the steam engine lobby of the early 20th century trying so hard to avoid the inevitable :ROFLMAO:

You are right, the electro vehicle
Probably “is” inevitable. But what
Is being artificially forced on the market now is not a good solution.

The money should go into engines or gas turbines optimized to spin high RPM dynamos, not automatic transmissions.

More efficient solar cells.

Number one is room-temp superconducting materials that can eliminate transmission loss.

We should be building nukes not shuttering them.

We should be building a hydrogen infrastructure.

We should be creating a 22nd century grid, not patching a 19th century one.

Electric cars today are a fashion statement for rich leftists (mostly) who want to pretend they are helping. By driving their new electric hybrid Bentley from their Lear jet to their super yacht. They are bandaids at best and draining money from useful research at worst.

We can’t go on forever as a hydrocarbon society. Only an idiot would dispute that. But forcing a change with immature technology is either stupid or a sham to mask more wealth redistribution and crony capitalism.

Sirhr
 
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This feels like the steam engine lobby of the early 20th century trying so hard to avoid the inevitable :ROFLMAO:
Is this your argument?
No tax dollars or incentives.
Let the market decide.
Funny you try this tactic, electric vehicles have been around for 130ish years.
And people say folks from Kali are condescending pricks...



R
 
...If you want to talk about cost of repairing cars, that's what I do for a living. I approve repairs all day long. You know how often I see a Tesla or electric car that needs a actual repair? Pretty rare compared to that of ICE vehicles.
Doing a little research, it appears that EVs constitute 5.56% of the total vehicular market in Texas (I see you are in Houston) so that means ICE-powered vehicles make up @ 94% of all the cars in your area. Did you correct for that fact? Also, a recent study showed that the average EV is driven @ 4,500 fewer miles per year compared to the average ICE vehicle. That means that on an annual basis EVs are subject to anywhere from 25% to 50% less wear-and-tear than ICE vehicles. Did you correct for that as well? If not, then those two factors are sufficient to explain why you see fewer claims for EVs.
 
You really need to your own research on this.

If you want to talk about cost of repairing cars, that's what I do for a living. I approve repairs all day long. You know how often I see a Tesla or electric car that needs a actual repair? Pretty rare compared to that of ICE vehicles.
I would think they would be rare, as the EVs are relatively rare. Anyone have a number of EVs/mileage driven/repair comparison with ICE? Also, how many are written off vs repaired? That would be interesting. Also a cost comparison vs miles driven for repairs which includes battery replacement costs over a 20 year life of a vehicle period?
 
Doing a little research, it appears that EVs constitute 5.56% of the total vehicular market in Texas (I see you are in Houston) so that means ICE-powered vehicles make up @ 94% of all the cars in your area. Did you correct for that fact? Also, a recent study showed that the average EV is driven @ 4,500 fewer miles per year compared to the average ICE vehicle. That means that on an annual basis EVs are subject to anywhere from 25% to 50% less wear-and-tear than ICE vehicles. Did you correct for that as well? If not, then those two factors are sufficient to explain why you see fewer claims for EVs.
If you read it, it's calculated per 100k vehicles.
 
I would think they would be rare, as the EVs are relatively rare. Anyone have a number of EVs/mileage driven/repair comparison with ICE? Also, how many are written off vs repaired? That would be interesting. Also a cost comparison vs miles driven for repairs which includes battery replacement costs over a 20 year life of a vehicle period?
Guess it will depend on where you live. I see them ALL the time. The Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the WORLD in 2023. Battery replacement isn't as common as they use to be. The technology to maintain and produce them has gotten a lot better in the past couple of years. I saw a graphic a couple of weeks ago where battery replacement was like at .7% of 1% on Teslas.

I'm not anti ICE or EV lover. But working with huge fleets, I have to be more educated than the average joe when it comes to vehicles, repairs and logistics of cars, trucks and transportation. I have found a lot of the gripes people have with EVs are really gone. The technology is moving so fast and people really have not educated themselves about how they work. When someone told me they love taking road trips in their Teslas, I have always though, why in the world would they want to wait and charge. Turns out, you turn that shit on auto pilot and let it drive itself. These cars can drive better than a lot of people on the roads today. And you are not suppose to charge to 100% like you fill your vehicle all the way to the top.
 
If you read it, it's calculated per 100k vehicles.
Did you read the original research the Autoblog and UK Guardian stories are based on? Do those numbers from the UK, Sweden, Australia and elsewhere accurately reflect what you see in Texas?
 
To me, it seems inevitable that high tension lines will have to triple or quadruple to each and every city. They're going to have to build so many more dams, that they'll have to start digging man-made "grand-canyon" type things, just to get water level differences.

And while they're doing that, there's gonna have to be a nuclear (nukular?) reactor in every city just to provide the green 'power' for the demand.

Imagine what the demand will be in 10 years.

Shirley, I'm jesting!
 
I like the EV technology - its pretty cool. I have no current plans for one but, if my transportation needs change so it becomes a viable option, I'd consider one. I strongly disagree with any mandates for implementation and its pretty clear that they are not the environmental nirvana some believe them to be.

A few friends have them so I've driven and ridden in a few. The torque, as pointed out earlier, is amazing - these things can be rockets! There is a reason the locomotives used for virtually all freight trains, and many others, have been powered by electric motors for decades - the electric motors are torque monsters. (For those that are unaware, the diesel engine powers a generator only - does not move the locomotive.)

We'll see where this goes but it's in its early stages and the technology will get better. Those I know that have them do have less maintenance but they are not maintenance free. All are happy with them overall as most of their driving needs can be met with an EV. One guy has the EV Ford pickup and can power his trailer for a couple of days while camping - works better than he expected. Another guy has a Rivian truck. A badass vehicle that is scary fast. A ton of storage as there is a huge space under the hood, the bed of the truck obviously, and, since there is no drive train, there is a huge compartment under / behind the rear seats, that can hold at least 2 dead hookers.

They do go through tires as they are heavier than a comparable gas powered vehicle and the Rivian gets glitchy when temps go over 100 in the summer. (Still drives fine but the dash lights and some of the controls and such start doing weird things.) Early on I saw a Tesla in a showroom that had the body off. I thought it was a brilliantly simple design - a large floor-pan that was basically the battery and an electric motor at each drive wheel, pretty simply controls. I had expected something far less simple.

A lot of smoke, mirrors, and BS on the environmental side though. I talked with a guy I know that ran a nuke plant most of his career and, as a highly knowledgeable electrical engineer, knows more about how electricity is produced and distributed in the country than most. He thinks hybrids are better solution given the current technology and pointed out that, in some parts of the country where 100% of the electricity comes from coal and oil power, the improvement on air pollution is not a great as many make it out to be. There will be grid challenges in some areas. The mining and child labor issues are real. I've heard there are some sodium based batteries in the works that may help with the problematic side of lithium production and use.

Fudds gonna Fudd - things will always be changing and the first cars 100+ years ago were thought by some to be the end of all rationality and an undeniable horror for all mankind - yet here we are - defending them as the only viable option that could ever exist to get us from point A to B.

Just a skeptical observer for now...
 
Did you read the original research the Autoblog and UK Guardian stories are based on? Do those numbers from the UK, Sweden, Australia and elsewhere accurately reflect what you see in Texas?
What difference does it make where I live? This is per 100K vehicles. Would it make a difference if you want to know what the fires are within my neighborhood for gas vs electric cars? lol
 
How educated are you, exactly? Please provide your curriculum vitae.
I deal with huge fleets all over the US and Canada. The company I work for manages 4-5 million cars, trucks, trailers, pieces of equipment. I probably deal with more repairs than a normal service advisor or tech on a daily basis than a service advisor would in a month.
 
What difference does it make where I live? This is per 100K vehicles. Would it make a difference if you want to know what the fires are within my neighborhood for gas vs electric cars? lol
You started out claiming that YOU see a lot fewer repairs needed on EVs in your job. When I asked you about the specifics of that, you deflected to an article that links studies in other countries. You still haven't answered my question, but that's O.K.; you've already revealed enough.
 
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I deal with huge fleets all over the US and Canada. The company I work for manages 4-5 million cars, trucks, trailers, pieces of equipment. I probably deal with more repairs than a normal service advisor or tech on a daily basis than a service advisor would in a month.
So, you're not an academic and your experience is not with individually-owned vehicles but with a commercial fleet. That being the case, what are the numbers for EV's vs ICE-powered vehicles?
 
You started out claiming that YOU see a lot fewer repairs needed on EVs in your job. When I asked you about the specifics of that, you deflected to an article that links studies in other countries. You still haven't answered my question, but that's O.K.; you've already revealed enough.
You are totally confusing vehicle fires and vehicle repairs. 2 totally different things.
 
Guess it will depend on where you live. I see them ALL the time. The Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the WORLD in 2023. Battery replacement isn't as common as they use to be. The technology to maintain and produce them has gotten a lot better in the past couple of years. I saw a graphic a couple of weeks ago where battery replacement was like at .7% of 1% on Teslas.

I'm not anti ICE or EV lover. But working with huge fleets, I have to be more educated than the average joe when it comes to vehicles, repairs and logistics of cars, trucks and transportation. I have found a lot of the gripes people have with EVs are really gone. The technology is moving so fast and people really have not educated themselves about how they work. When someone told me they love taking road trips in their Teslas, I have always though, why in the world would they want to wait and charge. Turns out, you turn that shit on auto pilot and let it drive itself. These cars can drive better than a lot of people on the roads today. And you are not suppose to charge to 100% like you fill your vehicle all the way to the top.
Yeah, a lot of it would seem to depend on where you are. I am all about cost/ benefit. I don't personally care about all the electronic stuff. I dont even use the cruise control, let alone anything else. I know that when I went to Saudi I was not allowed to bring an electric car because of the excessive heat. I bet battery replacement is much more of a concern in AZ vs MN, so cost benefit may vary by quite a bit.
 
You are totally confusing vehicle fires and vehicle repairs. 2 totally different things.

I'm confusing nothing - you're deflecting once again. The fact you have answered only one of my direct questions gives me the strong impression that you can't back up your original assertion, so I'll just let this go. I've got better things to do with my time.
 
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I'm confusing nothing - you're deflecting once again. The fact you have answered only one of my direct questions gives me the strong impression that you can't back up your original assertion, so I'll just let this go. I've got better things to do with my time.
What, my claim that a EV is cheaper to repair/maintain than a ICE vehicle? It's true. There have been plenty of studies of this. I thought this was well known already. There are just a lot less moving parts to a EV to break than a ICE vehicle.
 
So miners only use Cat 994's ?

I could be wrong here.....but I have a sneaking feeling that there are other options out there.
Not saying anything else about the whole EV debacle, but to only give the highest fuel consumption vehicle as a reference doesn't convey much sincerity about the rest of the numbers.

I do not support any EV save for a golf cart, but I do want to see the real truth about the data.
 
Last Wednesday Brenda and I drove from our son’s home in Florida to our home in North Louisiana, and then the next day I drove into Jonesboro to fill the truck up. Maybe not stellar, but a fully loaded half ton pickup, driving at highway speeds, getting 23+ miles per gallon and making the entire 491 miles without needing fuel, and taking only a bit over 21 gallons of gas, when we fueled it the next day. This more than meets any expectation I have.

We went the back way, Leaving Florida a bit after six, spent more than an hour in Monroeville, Alabama, made two restroom stops (but we did eat lunch on the fly) and got home before 4 in the afternoon. I challenge any electric pickup to meet that time, much less beat that time for the distance, in a vehicle, fully loaded, driving at highway speeds.

I have said that electric cars can meet a need for a family that lives in a mid sized city, has a place to park, in safety while the car is being charged, never take long trips, and rarely drive more than a thousand or so miles a year, keeping battery life long. Tesla, the poster child of the electric car industry is supplying a demand that a segment of consumers want, and are willing to pay for. That’s capitalism at its finest. Forcing people to adopt a standard that does not meet their needs, is expensive and not practical, is totalitarianism at its most deviance.

Forgot to add, this truck has a 5.3 liter V-8, Not one of those 1.2 liter, triple turbo charged, 2 cylinder wonder engines.
 
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What, my claim that a EV is cheaper to repair/maintain than a ICE vehicle? It's true. There have been plenty of studies of this. I thought this was well known already. There are just a lot less moving parts to a EV to break than a ICE vehicle.

Especially a diesel with aftertreatment. I can drop 10-20k on a truck pretty easily. The cost of an engine failure that contaminates the doc and dpf is really bad. We won't even get into fuel systems on diesels.
 
What, my claim that a EV is cheaper to repair/maintain than a ICE vehicle? It's true. There have been plenty of studies of this. I thought this was well known already. There are just a lot less moving parts to a EV to break than a ICE vehicle.
Seriously, let it go. You had your chance to answer a few simple questions and you just weren't up to the challenge. Life goes on...
 
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Especially a diesel with aftertreatment. I can drop 10-20k on a truck pretty easily. The cost of an engine failure that contaminates the doc and dpf is really bad. We won't even get into fuel systems on diesels.
Do you mean the fuel system failures that happen so often that Ford has it's own part number for the fuel system? It's only a 6k kit, then you also need the low pressure pump and couple of lines, then another 15-20 hours of labor at 200 dollars an hour if you are lucky. I'm pretty happy if I have to approve one under 12k. Then you have the whole steering system falling apart on the F250-F550s every 60K. We didn't even get into the constant cooling leaks on the Fords. lol. That's just the diesels. Fords are junk!
 
Do you mean the fuel system failures that happen so often that Ford has it's own part number for the fuel system? It's only a 6k kit, then you also need the low pressure pump and couple of lines, then another 15-20 hours of labor at 200 dollars an hour if you are lucky. I'm pretty happy if I have to approve one under 12k. Then you have the whole steering system falling apart on the F250-F550s every 60K. We didn't even get into the constant cooling leaks on the Fords. lol. That's just the diesels. Fords are junk!
Here's a tip.

Ford has a part number for every part they have ever made, on every vehicle they have ever made.
So does GM, and Mopar, and BMW, and MBZ, and Toyota.....and on and on.

Just that tiny bit of info shows that you have zero clue about vehicles and should stop now before it gets worse.
 
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Here's a tip.

Ford has a part number for every part they have ever made, on every vehicle they have ever made.
So does GM, and Mopar, and BMW, and MBZ, and Toyota.....and on and on.

Just that tiny bit of info shows that you have zero clue about vehicles and should stop now before it gets worse.
GM and Mopar doesn't have a part number for a kit for their diesel fuel systems. The problem is so common on the 6.7 Fords, they make it easier and just put the kit all together as 1 part number instead of having to piece meal it.