Hunting & Fishing Guys that have a 'guided hunt' business; a few questions

[TheGerman]

Kicking an idea around and wanted to ask a few questions to those that have an actual guided hunt business, be it on the side or their main gig.

A few questions:

- Does it matter legally, if your guided hunts are on state/public land where it is legal to hunt? Or do you need your own private land (or permission on private land?)
- Is the licensing/insurance a hindrance in any way (financially, actually getting it, etc)
- Are you required to have insurance; if so, what do you pay on average

I go hunting so much now, someone made a joke that too bad it isn't my job because it would be a hell of a tax deduction. A light-bulb went on. If I were to incorporate or LLC this, I could list any weapons, equipment, gear and costs as expenses on the company ledger. Since I have a vehicle specifically for hunting and its use is +50% for solely hunting, that would be included, fuel, prorated amount of insurance and I'd have to check the statue but I am fairly certain a depreciate expense over the life of the firearms that were used as well as all equipment would be included as well assuming I 'gave' the weapons to the company via shareholder contribution.

Pretty much in a nutshell, I can drag all these people always wanting to go hunting with me because A. they cant find coyotes B. they don't have the equipment/weapons I do and C. don't have means to get in the middle of absolutely nowhere where I need a Jeep to get to and make some legitimate money/take deduction for shit I would already do and already own.

 

[kurt]

Some states differ but in SoDak no guiding on public land. You need insurance what it costs i dont know as i just work for a guy that owns the buisness. Some states also have a guide license and certain qualifications that go with it. Would have to know what state you are wanting to guide in to get more specific. Some days it is really fun other days it is like taking out a bunch of whining toddlers. I guide pheasant hunters so big game may be a whole different ball game.

 

[kraigWY]

You're questions would be better directed to your state's fish & game department.

Regardless what state, there is more to guiding then hunting. Just like anything else its a business. To be successful you need to treat it as a business. I would recommend any one wanting to go into business (guiding, gunsmithing, Any Business) at the min. get an AA in Business Management.

I've seen a lot of people go broke turning their hobby into a business without treating it as a business.

 

[TheGerman]

Think I'll be fine on the business side with a bachelors in accounting, bachelors in finance, CPA and am a certified management account

Wanted to see if there were any instant deterrents to even looking into this before dealing with the ever inefficient state departments.

Not really looking to make this my day job; more of a way to capitalize on something I already do, keep doing it the way and time I do it and benefit from this in other ways.

 

[Mark williams]

Like Craig said, I know your capable with your degrees. One thing to consider, sometimes a person can turn their hobby they love into work. Then , no more hobby. It becomes a chore.

 

[psinclair]

It's hard for me to let guys I hunt with drop the hammer on "wiley"........I like doing it myself too much....grin!

I did run a successful outfitting business here in Montana for 25+ years. It's very demanding, even on a small scale. lots of rules and regs, permits, fees, reports. The state has made it a lot harder to start up as a new outfitter here. Just the cost of the initial outfitter test has quadrupled in the past 10-15 years, plus renewal fees, mandatory insurance, and you need to purchase NCHU's from an existing outfitter(net client hunter use) to even operate.

 

[Night Hunter]

You would have to check with the local wildlife agency for their particular laws. In some states we operate in we have to have a state guide license (usually inexpensive) and some we don't. As far as insurance goes, I recommend it. Price depends on what your plans are. I would call Outdoor Underwriters. They are underwritten by Lloyd's of London. They specialize in outdoor type policies.

Public land is obviously cheaper due to lack of leases in "most" cases but usually include a lot of red tape. Many of these areas are well worth the work though.

 

[45.308]

Kicking an idea around and wanted to ask a few questions to those that have an actual guided hunt business, be it on the side or their main gig.

A few questions:

- Does it matter legally, if your guided hunts are on state/public land where it is legal to hunt? Or do you need your own private land (or permission on private land?)
- Is the licensing/insurance a hindrance in any way (financially, actually getting it, etc)
- Are you required to have insurance; if so, what do you pay on average

I go hunting so much now, someone made a joke that too bad it isn't my job because it would be a hell of a tax deduction. A light-bulb went on. If I were to incorporate or LLC this, I could list any weapons, equipment, gear and costs as expenses on the company ledger. Since I have a vehicle specifically for hunting and its use is +50% for solely hunting, that would be included, fuel, prorated amount of insurance and I'd have to check the statue but I am fairly certain a depreciate expense over the life of the firearms that were used as well as all equipment would be included as well assuming I 'gave' the weapons to the company via shareholder contribution.

Pretty much in a nutshell, I can drag all these people always wanting to go hunting with me because A. they cant find coyotes B. they don't have the equipment/weapons I do and C. don't have means to get in the middle of absolutely nowhere where I need a Jeep to get to and make some legitimate money/take deduction for shit I would already do and already own.

In Alaska, have to possess medical certification first, most common is WFR to apply for the mandatory insurance. The first question asked by insurance was for WFR card. Its been a few years but min insurance for Gov land was $1mil liability but it is better have more, how much is up to you. Cost was $1500 for me and my activity, anything water related like in a boat and it doubled or more.

Now that I have my WFR and liability insurance in hand, now I can apply for permits. Its not a good idea to cut someones permit by guiding in their area, it does happen. Can you guide blind = meaning if someone ask you to guide in an area you never visited or guided before but drops coin to go, can you be successful there.

I can only guide where permitted so to speak. Guide on someone terrain, not good as I have had my permit cut but then again, what do you do as they need to make the coin too. 2nd guide, apprentice guide, camp wiper etc can bump off others permits to guide and vise verse to get the work and experience....money to feed the family but then how much loyalties to you.

Its not paid to go have fun on a activity you love or is your passion but an actual J O B. Someone has just dropped major hard earned coin to you and they expect something in return, its a contract. As the lead / master guide and of course #1 the owner, your reputation and permits are at stake. The best and worse advertising is word of mouth by clients so, I ran a very unique operation and my advertising was covered by clients.

You must be able to manage personalities especially if you have a mixed group. You have clients in your hands for 24 hours a day for 10 days so you must entertain, keep them safe, give them adventure while dealing with their personalities. Some clients are easy, some are hard work and some extreme punishment! You have to have client care. Sit in a tent, demand food be served while they lay, tie their boots on, complain, hate it, ask you to carry their pack while others are up early, ready, helping with camp chores. Mix group is most demanding and my only safeties came on someone else permit with large groups. Both times related to Alaska weather.

Must be aware 24 hours a day, most times there is danger all around and some clients are just that way. Something as a simple as pulling out knife to cut cord, slip, blood, can lead you into courts. And that release they signed, good luck in court. I gave a full disclosure to all my clients so they know my record but I had clients do some very unsafe acts. A single incident can land you in court.

For those who think its paid to do what you love, I hope you stay in bizz. One day I was, cold and tired and tired of being on edge and hearing the same old, repeating the same old, a switch flipped instantly and I was done.

Do you have an attorney

Do you have an accountant

Tax man always commeth

 

[milo 2.0]

Like Craig said, I know your capable with your degrees. One thing to consider, sometimes a person can turn their hobby they love into work. Then , no more hobby. It becomes a chore.

Ditto +1K
You take a fun loving hobby and turn it into a job?? Question for most, "why did you quit your last job?"

A guy I used to work with put in perspective, "I can't pick who I work with, but I can pick who I drink with." Goes to other aspects as well, most of your clients will be on a first meet up scenario. You best be one hell of a people person!

 

[milo 2.0]

Not really looking to make this my day job; more of a way to capitalize on something I already do, keep doing it the way and time I do it and benefit from this in other ways.

Wait till you pop over a ridge, a world record muley or bull elk 200 yards in front of you. You want it badly, but it's HIS, even if you have to finish it off for him, still his!

Most likely when the story hits the news world, if mentioned at all, your name will be misspelled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[45.308]

Pretty much in a nutshell, I can drag all these people always wanting to go hunting with me because A. they cant find coyotes B. they don't have the equipment/weapons I do and C. don't have means to get in the middle of absolutely nowhere where I need a Jeep to get to and make some legitimate money/take deduction for shit I would already do and already own.

I think you are looking at this with the wrong idea of what being a guide is and guiding. You are looking at it from your own personal gain of fun but its a contract between two parties. Just like a finish carpenter hamming nails all day to remodel your kitchen, if his work is not up to your expectations.... its a job with a contract, its not having fun getting a tax deduction.

Being an active hunter is not a prerequisite for being a guide. Its about people management! Its about stress management! Quick thinking. Always being in control. None of this has anything to do with being a good hunter.

What happens when all these people wanting to go hunting with you sprains an ankle or knee, slices open his finger, can you deal with the stress and manage the crisis. How do you get that person to safety if they cannot walk. Now this people goes to the Dr and slaps a $1000 bill to you, now you get served because this people missed a week of work so now you pay $10,000?

If your jeep breaks down in the middle of absolutely nowhere and your client does not get to hunt, is your contract met? How do you get that client home, he depends on you to get him there and home. Can you manage the stress. Can you process this situation.

What if your client has heart problems in the middle of absolutely nowhere, what do you do. Can you process this. Manage this stress.

Hunting is hunting, hunting is not guiding.

Guiding is guiding, guiding is not hunting.

good luck

 

[Night Eagle]

The only issue I see for you that might be a major problem is you might make a decent profit.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I think I understand what our German friend is trying to accomplish, and I think his purposes would be better suited by simply offering people a ride along coyote hunt, on the condition they cough up a little cash. More like just two guys having a good time together and the one offers the other a hand with gas, food, etc. Rather than a whole business with legal obligations and strings.

 

[vinnieb]

It's like any other business, some clients are good and some suck. Some show up in shape and ready to go and some show up out of shape and can't shoot. It all depends on what you are looking for. Check and see what permits you need from you Forest Service and BLM. And call your insurance agent and ask him to give you a quote on Gen Liability Insurance. It will depend on the $ amount of business you do as to the cost of it. Call your Game and Fish and see what is needed to get your Guide Or Outfitter License. In Arizona it's fairly easy to do.

The nice thing about just taking someone or taking friends is if they piss you off you can say fuck it and go home. With a client you've gotta suck it up and keep going. You will have plenty of good ones and just a few bad ones.

 

[witchhunter]

I did this for about 10 years, it started out just like you say; I might as well get the tax deduction. Well here is how it works. The first year after spending all the money on insurance, license and permits, you take the people that have been recommended by your friends, mostly locals. You don't charge full price, but the guys are all hunters and they are cool. The next year you advertise, costing a lot more money. Then your clientele changes to bankers and insurance salesmen. These guys expect you to wipe their ass for them. You do a great job anyway, so now you add a sub guide to help, more money. By the third or fourth year you have to look for private property to lease (more money) because all of the locals that you took for pennies are now taking all of their buddies where you took them. Now you have to charge a lot more because you have so many expenses. Then there is a huge winter kill in the area that just about ruins your hunting. In good faith you need to cancel some hunts and refund their money. Not to sound so negative, but that just about ruined hunting for me.

 

[shamrockcattleco]

Wait till you pop over a ridge, a world record muley or bull elk 200 yards in front of you. You want it badly, but it's HIS, even if you have to finish it off for him, still his!

Most likely when the story hits the news world, if mentioned at all, your name will be misspelled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or better yet the chance of a lifetime comes along and they cant close the deal. I never realized how limited you are by your clients ability. And the ones that struggled never seemed to tip well. As if it were my fault they couldn't shoot.

 

[DirtyDave]

I have a buddy that primarily guides for hogs up in central CA. He's a good guy and gets along with people. He does it on the weekends and has a M-F job.
I have not got into too much depth on the business side of things, but I get the gist of it. 45.308 is telling it like it is.
One thing besides the personalities that you may have to accept or get past is that over 50% miss their first shot. Everyone shows up and says they can shoot 500yds blah blah blah, then they miss a Hog standing broadside at 80yds by 2 feet.
Some guys will show up and know what they are doing and it's just like hunting with a buddy more than guiding. Most are less experienced or 1st timers that have never even killed a squirrel. Brand new rifle that they have only shot once before. Ridiculous expectations, Hand Holding, Ass Wiping, etc.

German,
You may be better off doing it somewhat under the table. Not really guiding, more like Mentoring. Take buddies, neighbors and their kids, friends of friends out hunting and have them foot most of the bill. It would be illegal in most states to accept payment without a guide license, but you will not be accepting cash in hand. You will not really be doing it for profit, more like having someone else pay your way in exchange for your experience.