So since this post, I've spent some time cycling the TL3. Its certainly smoothened up nicely. I think where the TL3 stands out is how it performs when dirty. Mine has been covered in sand and dirt and still felt fine. Some of the other actions with a very tight bolt struggled when very dirty despite being very nice while clean.
- Thread starter TimeWillTell
- Start date
So since this post, I've spent some time cycling the TL3. Its certainly smoothened up nicely. I think where the TL3 stands out is how it performs when dirty. Mine has been covered in sand and dirt and still felt fine. Some of the other actions with a very tight bolt struggled when very dirty despite being very nice while clean.
Aaaaand there ya go... this is what I've been telling folks for years about Bighorns and rifle actions in general.
If the design geometry and the metallurgy in the action are correct it doesn't matter if the bolt is sloppy or not. What does matter is how it handles dirt.
Yeah i had the same experience with my Bighorn. While it did tend to bite a bit sometimes (when im operating the bolt sloppily), it felt just as smooth and nice when run correctly regardless of its cleanliness. My Defiance handled dirt as needed, but it starts letting you know its dirty far sooner than the TL3.
To date the TL3 has had the nicest bolt lift ive ever felt, and if the Nucleus hadnt just come out, id probably have bought another one.
If I was to do it all over again, I would get a Bighorn over my Defiance for my PRS rig. In Oklahoma and Texas fine dust, my Defiance locks up as soon as it smells the dust. Multiple different times/matches I've had to continually clean the action throughout the day just to get it to run, while the Bighorns, Surgeons, etc. were still running smooth as butter.
I like the Defiance, and it works good enough that I bought another one for a .300NM ELR dedicated rig, but it's not good at eating the fine grit.
People who have safe queens look for the smoothest/quickest/lightest bolt throw. People who shoot in field conditions look for reliability.
Bohem,
Do you plan to offer shouldered barrels for the Barloc device in the future?
I'm currently waiting on one of the Bighorn Origin actions and I'd like to do a two barrel setup. I'm planning a 6.5 Creedmoor and something else (undecided at the moment).
Also, I've been debating going with a Proof CF barrel for one of them. Is that something you can accommodate? If so, should I go ahead and acquire a blank or let you order it. They're currently running $730ish at the moment, not sure if that's the new normal price or temporary.
Do you plan to offer shouldered barrels for the Barloc device in the future?
I'm currently waiting on one of the Bighorn Origin actions and I'd like to do a two barrel setup. I'm planning a 6.5 Creedmoor and something else (undecided at the moment).
Also, I've been debating going with a Proof CF barrel for one of them. Is that something you can accommodate? If so, should I go ahead and acquire a blank or let you order it. They're currently running $730ish at the moment, not sure if that's the new normal price or temporary.
We are offering shouldered BarLoc barrels now.
We can make BarLoc barrels for the Origin and TL3 as well.
At $730 for a CF wrapped blank that's a killer deal. Sounds like a sale to me. If it's the "new normal" then you don't lose if you buy it now. If it's a sale and you don't buy it you lose... I'd buy it.
Is there a specified installation torque for the Barloc? I know there is an example of 100 inch pounds = 100 foot pounds of preload on the barrel threads, is that the recomended installation torque? If so, I need to go out and buy a new inlb wrench. Mine only goes to 65 lol.
What am I looking at cost wise to accommodate the barloc with your current $525.95 replacement match grade Bighorn/Origin barrels?
Best to order on the website and follow up with an email or just email?
Thanks,
Not sure if anyone really knows yet. Have they even shipped yet? Ted hasn’t said much, in all honesty he gives the impression the barlok was just an after thought.
I tested mine at 65 in-lb. It was more than adequate for mounting the barrel with a repeatable zero.
Ted's example was 100in-lb and "over 100ftlb" of breakaway torque.
I got 90-95ftlb of breakaway torque with a 65 in-lb installation.
Until Ted recommends differently I just have the data from my testing and 65 in-lb worked fine.
The Nucleus barreled action has a "BarLoc" option for the Nucleus so that's already set. I'll make a checkbox on the website to select for BarLoc use for other barrels.
Don't send a followup email that's not attached to the order, folks have been sending change orders through emails and it's taking a LOT of time to modify things in the order tracking. That time is better spent in front of a machine instead of a keyboard and add on details in an email are tough to track, sometimes they get missed.
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/replacement-match-barrel-bighorn-arms-tl3-origin-receiver/
I’ve heard of guys using shouldered setups basically screwing them on hand tight and getting good results, so I’d imagine if 65 inch pounds gets you the equivalent of 65 ft lbs then it’ll probably be okay.
Thank you.
I think there is a mistake in the caliber selection. The 6.5 Creedmoor & 260 Remington are the same option.
One last question, do you have any preference on manufacturer of headspace gauges?
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Pretty sure I ordered wrong, too. I ordered a couple of the Nucleus Barlocs directly from ARC and think I put down the option for a normal shouldered barrel from Josh. I’d like to get the shouldered Barloc barrel option since I’ve got a couple coming anyway.
Truthfully i was looking for something along the lines of 600-650$ but here was my line of thinking. The weight on my gun is already set i'm not changing the EH1 out to grab another and do bedding only to save a couple of ounces. The other route was going to be a 3B with flutes. That is 500-550$ depending, plus cerakote if you want a color it's nearly 650$ all said and done. So for 730$ i get a thick barrel and can have my weight reduction too. It's a niche for sure but i wasn't going to drop much on barrel thickness based on aesthetic alone. Really wouldn't even want a 3b would've gone #4 fluted.
Maybe the PVA site was updated since this post, but it looks like Josh is only offering shouldered barrels w/o the barloc right now. Im wondering what the difference is between the "Nucleus Receiver Barrel - Group Buy" and the "Replacement Barrel - John Hancock Rifle" other than the John Hancock has more 6mm chambering offerings.
I already have an order in for a savage prefit (as it seems to be the only way to get a 260 right now), but I am waiting for the Nucleus specific Bar-Loc for shouldered barrels and a shouldered 260 offering from Josh - that is my ideal set-up
I think that if you buy the barrelled action, there is a checkbox that says "yes, upgrade my Nucleus to use the Barloc" which adds $50 and with that you get the barloc and a shouldered barloc barrel. I could be wrong but that was my assumption.
I preordered from ARC directly and the $50 Nucleus Barloc was depicted as a barrel-nut type setup. The shouldered Barloc was costlier, in the realm of $120 I think.
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/nucleus-barreled-action/
The pictures show the barrel nut barloc. Also the options are "No thank you, I prefer a shouldered install" and "Yes, please upgrade my NUCLEUS to use the BarLoc System"
The pictures show the barrel nut barloc. Also the options are "No thank you, I prefer a shouldered install" and "Yes, please upgrade my NUCLEUS to use the BarLoc System"
As far as I know the only difference between the barlocks is if it has the prefit nut or a tapered ring/taper on barrel. The action side of the Barloc is the same regardless of shouldered or prefit.
Basically like this
Pre-fit
Tapered ring or Barloc recoil lug ---> split collar with screw ----> barrel nut ---> Barrel
Shouldered
Tapered ring or Barloc recoil lug ---> split collar with screw ----> tapered ring or chamfer on barrel ---->barrel
If the PVA Barloc shouldered barrels come with the required chamfer on the outside of the shoulder you should be able to use the prefit Barloc for both. Hopefully Josh can stop by and correct me if I am wrong because I am interested in a couple different barrels if that is the case
Goodness gracious things got confusing lol. Ive heard a few different things from a few different people so im not sure. Ill probably just wait it out until the orders and questions have settled down a bit before i attempt to change my order details or anything. Plenty of time. ill honestly be happy with either the prefit or the shouldered barloc, plus sides to both. As long as i know that at least SOME kind of barloc will be included with my barreled action since i clicked that little box that added $50 to my pre order.
Pre orders get a place in line just like the people who bought it flat out right? Or did people who pay all up front receive priority?
Pre orders get a place in line just like the people who bought it flat out right? Or did people who pay all up front receive priority?
The deposit and the full paid price get the order in line based on order ID. It will be cross referenced by caliber.
IE, if I'm cutting a batch of 6.5 Creed and there is a 6mm Creed, then 3 more 6.5 Creeds I'm skipping the 6 Creed for a little bit and coming back to it. I'm not going to pull reamers in and out of production equipment to stay exactly FIFO.
If someone has a pre-order deposit for an identical guy that has a fully paid one adn the depositr was ordered first then that guy gets his notification and I keep building for the next order in line. If a deposit guy doesn't answer me for days while I'm trying to get paid for the job and the parts I won't have any choice but to move the parts into the next build and move forward. Hopefully that won't be an issue but it has come up in the past.
The Nucleus specific BarLoc does not have a taper cut into the shoulder as the Nucleus Specific BL has the coned ring included in the stack.
My understanding is that the Nucleus Specific BarLoc has the Nucleus specific recoil lug in it and no barrel nut. I am making barrels for that setup.
If someone wants a barrel nut then they need to order a barrel nut type BL and that, as I understand, is $30-40 more expensive than the Nucleus specific BL for shouldered barrels.
I used the pictures that ARC provided with it, if they're not correct we'll have to get it sorted with them but I followed their lead on the announcement. That being said, the above explanation is my understanding on it.
The reason that a 260 and 6.5 Creed use the same SKU is because they use the same blank. If you notice the SKU codes are actually specific to the barrel bore, contour and rifling type. They're not specific to the caliber.
The caliber is a drop down selection but as long as it doesn't change the bore ID you can go to any 6mm and it will have the same SKU code for a given barrel type.
IE
6mm Creed, 6 BR, 6 Dasher, 243, 6XC
Marksman contour, button rifled.
They all have the same SKU.
This is for inventory tracking and PO issuance against the barrels needed. The caliber isn't important to Rock Creek when the blanks are ordered. The way these are setup is so that I can pull a report from the website, collate it into an excel spreadsheet and tally everything. Then I write a PO to RCB for the blanks I need.
I didn't mean it to be confusion to folks, I didn't think that part mattered to guys, but the reason it was done was to streamline inventory handling on the backside of the forms and make sure that the flow of barrels is smooth and clean.
There is also the nucleus specific version that has the recoil lug that fits into the rail slot and also has the chamfer, but that version appears to only be available with the barrel nut. I want that nucleus specific recoil lug, and a shouldered barrel chambered in 260 - AFAIK none of those things are currently available.
I have gages from JGS, PTG, Manson, Clymer and a couple that I ground myself for wildcats that I needed in a pinch. I also use a tooling ball and a depth mic coupled to some basic calculations.
Just track what you have and use the same thing. Few folks realize this but a GO gauge has a total tolerance band of 1.5 thousandths. I know that my 6.5 Creed is 3 tenths under Nominal for the GO. At only 3 tenths I just roll wtih it.
My 6.5x47 came in 0.0009" long. Still within tolerance but almost a thousandth out. I took it to the die room at the place I was working at the time and put it in the cylindrical grinder and got it to within 50 millionths at 68F
Oh goodness, I'm confused now. I ordered this barloc, which seems to be the only "nucleus specific" barloc available on the ARC site. It clearly shows a barrel nut, which is why I ordered the prefit barrel (well that, and it seemed to be the only way to get a 260).
http://www.americanrifle.com/produc...clear-price-of-50-only-for-nucleus-customers/
I'm assuming the one on the ARC website includes the barrel nut as the rendering specifically has the recoil lug for the nucleus showing the full setup. Not sure why else they would have that picture otherwise. Maybe its different depending where you ordered/what options were selected.
That's why I'm confused because that is contrary to what Josh said, and Ted & he are the guys who would know most about this.
Josh, what tab would I use to order a shouldered Nucleus barrel that accepts the Barlok? Also, what are the twist options for the 6mm buttom rifled blanks? Just want to get my name on the long list and get it correct the first time lol
Grab the one that says "please upgrade me to a BarLoc"
I'll handle it with Ted. He and I talk daily, sometimes multiple times a day, about the various projects involved within the NUCLEUS launch.
The 6mm Button blanks come in an 8 twist. I'm doing testing on 7's but I can tell you for shit sure that the 8's are total hammers. The prototype Hancock shoots 6mm Creed factory ammo sub 1/4MOA at 100 and it is boring to shoot clay pidgeons off an impact mound at 640.
Thanks for the reply! What about barrels only? I ended up pre-ordering a Nucleus from ARC when they were released. Can I just send you note/comment with the order? And should I choose the J/H replacement barrel or bighorn/mausingfield replacement barrel?
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/replacement-match-barrel-bighorn-arms-tl3-origin-receiver/
Also, what grease do you use on the barrel/action threads?
You need a BarLoc from ARC for "shouldered barrels" but not the Nucleus specific one. Or you can use the Savage barrel nut version but then you need Savage prefit barrels.
Nucleus Specific BarLoc - Shouldered Barrels cut to accomodate the BL
Shouldered Barrel BarLoc for any other receiver - Shouldered barrels cut to accomodate the BL
Barrel Nut Bar Loc - Savage style barrels
Yes - the only barloc with the conical lug cut to fit a nucleus is the barrel nut version
Which one was on sale from ARC for Nucleus for $50? The pic showed a barrel nut and that's the one I wanted.
It's the only "nucleus specific" barloc available - it will require a savage prefit barrel
Are you two saying the same thing? I don’t think so, but I could just be a bit sense.
I'm going by what is on the ARC site - this is the only one available with the nucleus specific recoil lug
https://www.americanrifle.com/produ...clear-price-of-50-only-for-nucleus-customers/
