Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

[SmokeRolls]

Has anyone ever created a 6mm or 6.5mm cartridge using an UNBELTED case with the same dimensions as the 300WSM or 7MM WSM? Or basically a 7mm WSM necked down to fit a 6mm or 6.5MM bullet? I wonder how this would shoot, I bet it would be sweet.
In belted they have a 264 Win mag but it's longer,belted and a barrel burner. I also realize that they have a 243 WSSM but I heard they have feeding issues due to case size I guess.
If I am missing or forgetting about a certain cartridge that fits this bill then please forgive me....I am only human.
Thanks for the help.
...............SmokeRolls

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

Yes, it has been done by many. I know a local smith that built one at the same time he built my 300wsm when they were brand new to the market. He used the 270 wsm and necked it down to 6.5 and shot 142 smk's. It was quite the shooter if I remember right.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone ever created a 6mm or 6.5mm cartridge using an UNBELTED case with the same dimensions as the 300WSM or 7MM WSM? Or basically a 7mm WSM necked down to fit a 6mm or 6.5MM bullet? I wonder how this would shoot, I bet it would be sweet.
In belted they have a 264 Win mag but it's longer,belted and a barrel burner. I also realize that they have a 243 WSSM but I heard they have feeding issues due to case size I guess.
If I am missing or forgetting about a certain cartridge that fits this bill then please forgive me....I am only human.
Thanks for the help.
...............SmokeRolls </div></div>

Smoke,

264 Win Mag case capacity 82 grains of H20
270 WSM case capacity 80.1 grains of H20

Not a whole lot of difference between them. A 6.5 WSM will have slightly less case capacity than the 270 WSM, at around 78-79 grains of H20.

As a comparison the 6.5-284 case has a capacity of 69 grains of H20.

In any event, with real loads, in either the 264 win mag or 6.5 WSM, throwing max loads of more than 60 grains of powder, performance with 140 grain bullets will be spectacular, and barrel life will be breathtakingly short.

Your barrel maker will be your new best friend.

But have fun,

Bob

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

Just curious why this hasn't taken off yet or is it going to re-surface later as a "New, Hot cartridge" that has been adopted by a major rifle or ammo company.
Any more imput, feel free to add.
..............SmokeRolls

 

[Austan]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

Link

500 rounds of barrel life mentioned in link.

Another link with some more info.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone ever created a 6mm or 6.5mm cartridge using an UNBELTED case with the same dimensions as the 300WSM or 7MM WSM? Or basically a 7mm WSM necked down to fit a 6mm or 6.5MM bullet? I wonder how this would shoot, I bet it would be sweet.
In belted they have a 264 Win mag but it's longer,belted and a barrel burner. I also realize that they have a 243 WSSM but I heard they have feeding issues due to case size I guess.
If I am missing or forgetting about a certain cartridge that fits this bill then please forgive me....I am only human.
Thanks for the help.
...............SmokeRolls </div></div>

Smoke,

264 Win Mag case capacity 82 grains of H20
270 WSM case capacity 80.1 grains of H20

Not a whole lot of difference between them. A 6.5 WSM will have slightly less case capacity than the 270 WSM, at around 78-79 grains of H20.

As a comparison the 6.5-284 case has a capacity of 69 grains of H20.

In any event, with real loads, in either the 264 win mag or 6.5 WSM, throwing max loads of more than 60 grains of powder, performance with 140 grain bullets will be spectacular, and barrel life will be breathtakingly short.

Your barrel maker will be your new best friend.

But have fun,

Bob



</div></div>
From what I've read (Which we can't always trust) the WSM cartridges have less case capacity than their comparible Magnum cartridges but due to a so-called more efficient design, they burn more efficiently than their larger Magnum brothers and also cause the barrels to last longer. Would this same efficiency senario apply to the 6 or 6.5 WSM if it were to be utilized? Sometimes I have noticed that some cartridges just seem to work better or they have better attributes due to efficiency of their shape/design. Not all cartridges are equal even though they have the same case capacity. The design of the case, the particular powder used and the results that followed could be quite different. This just seems like it would have alot of potential. It makes sense in my head, but to sombody like Ackley or Hornady they may think I was nutts.
Just curious........SmokeRolls

 

[Jerry m]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

Buy P. O. Ackleys "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders" there are 100s of wildcats listed. Most stuff we think of a new and innovative has been done before.

Good luck

Jerry

 

[bohem]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

Smoke, I like the way you think. This got me to a 6.5-06

If you do this 6.5 WSM here's a couple points to keep in mind on the build spec.

Overbore ratio is approaching the 338LM or more and it will do the best with (min) 28" barrel. I thought a 28" would be fine for my 6.5-06 but it appears to be a mite short, the next will be a 31-32"

I'm approaching 3200 with the 140 Berger and Retumbo. With a fast twist in there like an 8 or 8.5 you will get into "bullet blowup" problems pretty soon with the kind of performance you can get.

I spoke with Robert Gradous about this and his proposed idea to help this would be an odd number of grooves with a biased land shape. Something like a 5C (?) from Broughton so that the engraved shape in the bullet isn't 2 square corners but just 1 and less jacket deformation from the odd number of grooves.

Barrel life will be very short, so plan accordingly with both finances and rebarrel orders.

I can tell you that my 6.5-06 (and my buddy with an identical rifle feels the same way) is a complete joy to shoot. It's incredibly fast and flat and just a ton of fun to enjoy past 1000yd.

I really don't see much point in shooting it inside 800yd for all reasonable pursuits. The 260's do such a good job out to 1200 or more that it's a hard hit to look at the 6.5-06 and leave it in the safe for a day at the 600yd range.

The guy on here that goes by 6.5WSSM has a 30" barrel on his rifle and gets 3100 from the 140 Berger and about 45gr of powder. It's a laser beam as well. The WSM version is sure to smoke us both, assuming you can tune the load and get a barrel to support it.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Has anyone ever wildcatted this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smoke, I like the way you think. This got me to a 6.5-06

If you do this 6.5 WSM here's a couple points to keep in mind on the build spec.

Overbore ratio is approaching the 338LM or more and it will do the best with (min) 28" barrel. I thought a 28" would be fine for my 6.5-06 but it appears to be a mite short, the next will be a 31-32"

I'm approaching 3200 with the 140 Berger and Retumbo. With a fast twist in there like an 8 or 8.5 you will get into "bullet blowup" problems pretty soon with the kind of performance you can get.

I spoke with Robert Gradous about this and his proposed idea to help this would be an odd number of grooves with a biased land shape. Something like a 5C (?) from Broughton so that the engraved shape in the bullet isn't 2 square corners but just 1 and less jacket deformation from the odd number of grooves.

Barrel life will be very short, so plan accordingly with both finances and rebarrel orders.

I can tell you that my 6.5-06 (and my buddy with an identical rifle feels the same way) is a complete joy to shoot. It's incredibly fast and flat and just a ton of fun to enjoy past 1000yd.

I really don't see much point in shooting it inside 800yd for all reasonable pursuits. The 260's do such a good job out to 1200 or more that it's a hard hit to look at the 6.5-06 and leave it in the safe for a day at the 600yd range.

The guy on here that goes by 6.5WSSM has a 30" barrel on his rifle and gets 3100 from the 140 Berger and about 45gr of powder. It's a laser beam as well. The WSM version is sure to smoke us both, assuming you can tune the load and get a barrel to support it.</div></div>
I guess I am alittle disapointed with the findings that this combination would provide a great shooter but a shortlived one. I guess I love performance but also love longevity. I love the idea of 6mm to 6.5 due to it's CD but cranking them to some hot speeds just burns a hole in your pocket as well as your barrel. I guess everything that has great performance has a detriment or a drawback. It's kind of hard to cheat friction and gravity, actually it's just about impossible.
We may be able to make advancements in certain areas but in the end.....The laws that govern this planet still stand.
That sucks.
Thanks for enlightening me....
...........SmokeRolls