Help with .224 Valkyrie guys/gals...

#51
So how many chambers are there out there for the 224V? I know this is happening to other rifles besides Savages, not saying Savage isn't in the wrong. Does anyone know what JP did to finally get it so that they are selling rifles? It seems that there is an ammo-chamber-barrel issue when it comes to popping primers and accuracy (at least to JP standards, though I've never heard of anyone complaining about JP 224V accuracy).

It looks promising overall, but I think I'll wait until the Hornady ammo comes out to see how that works out.
 
#52
I had high hopes but I am having the exact same experiences as Jonny’s reloading bench. The accuracy of the 90g SMK is horrible when I push them above 2500fps. I loaded up a test batch of Superformance and was excited when I had a nice tight group but at 2300fps. As the speed increased the groups went to shit. I’m sorry I bought s box of 500. I hope the 88g ELDM is better.
 
#53
redneckbmxer24 said:
Perhaps you should call Federal and educate them then because they seal all of their primers for this reason. Any military ammo is also sealed for the same reason, to keep out moisture. No, a properly seated primer is not water tight.

As to the chamber, yes it's the chamber. Savage has even admitted this and recalled all of the rifles from dealers. Tight headspace and short freebore can both cause overpressure conditions and that's exactly whats happening.

You say crap Federal ammo but the irony is that this problem is centered around Savage rifles, no others. I'm a member of a few groups on Facebook for 224 valkyrie and nobody is having these problems except people with savages. Mine and my buddies Craddock barrels all hammer with factory Federal. Even the cheap American Eagle hovers around 3/4moa but has ES's of 40-50fps which is still tight for what's considered plinking ammo. The Gold Medal is sub half minute with ES's in the 20fps range and SD's below 10... So yes, totally crap ammo.

You bought a piece of shit rifle, got shitty results, and want to blame the ammo that people who bought quality rifles are getting good results from.
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What craddock barrel were you guys running? It looks like they are reselling Bartlein, Criterion, and rock creek.
 
#54
Im not sure Savage has yet to admitted anything wrong with rifle. My dealer which has a few other stores still have them on the shelf and has not heard anything about a recall.
 
#58
I did get a surprise from federal in the mail yesterday. They sent me 100 brass because the quality was poor in the original I ordered. Thank you federal!
 
#62
JesseB81 said:
Can you provide evidence of this? I’ve not heard anything official that readers were out of spec. Although I did receive a short chambered barrel.
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He's regurgitating shit he read. Not saying that there isn't something obviously wrong with the Savage chambers, but someone posted on a FB group that some rifles are being chambered with PTG reamers the have .047" longer freebore than SAAMI spec. Absolutely nothing to back it up, no mention of whether it was PTG who screwed up the reamer, builders order the reamer with that spec, or anything.

I wish people would not spread second hand information that they have absolutely no fucking clue about. It got reposted here twisting it even more with even less info, could easily be interpreted that EVERY Valkyrie reamer is wrong if they didn't see the FB post about it being PTG's that also is completely vague with no details.
 
#64
#65
This is the correct reamer drawing that matches the SAAMI spec drawing. It's pretty easy to check your chamber. Don't wait for someone to prove it to you check it yourself. The 1.6767 dimension is the distance from the base to the start of the freebore. Take a .224" diameter inspection pin. Cut it in half, 1" long. stick it in a Hornady OAL gauge. Measure from the front of the inspection pin to the base and there's your number.
IMG_1049.JPG
 
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#66
JesseB81 said:
Can you provide evidence of this? I’ve not heard anything official that readers were out of spec. Although I did receive a short chambered barrel.
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Official? Like a press release? uh...no. Some times old smiths/wildcatters find stuff before these new out of school big company inganeers do. Up until now everyone has been blaming Federals ammo. A few engineers at Federal know about the reamers as of last week. Just wait and watch it'll all come out.
ETA- The reamers in question have a longer freebore which usually means less pressure and would likely NOT be the cause of blowing primers. Blown primers can be a few things, excess pressure, too much headspace or a barrel that is WAY over gassed or a combination of those 3. In the case of being over-gassed If the carrier starts to move to the rear and unlocks the bolt while the bullet is still in the bore the pressure is high and the case is stuck to the chamber walls due to the pressure. The case has not had time to shrink back down. The bolt moves away from the case and the pressure inside the case pushes the primer out.
 
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#67
Constructor, thank you for your valuable information. I purchased a pathfinder barrel from airborne arms. I have a freebore of 1.8175 meaning my case overall length with a 90g smk would have to be 2.3215 to touch the lands. Obviously this is out of spec. I reached out to them and they informed me they do not use PTG reamers. They aren’t saying what blanks or reamers they are using but I assume it’s a Manson.
 
#69
JesseB81 said:
Now I’m curious, who does an out of spec ream job fall back on?
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The barrel maker, who ever reamed the barrel. They should have checked the reamer for accuracy before using it.

The reamer grinder should have checked their work before shipping it out but highly unlikely the tool maker will pay the barrel maker for bad barrels.

To some this right or wrong freebore will not make any difference, if they are happy with the performance of the barrel.
 
#70
....I'm probably like most of the general consumers in that I'd prefer that whatever brand of barrel I use will perform as touted with the heavy projectiles it was developed around, most especially the off the shelf offerings. Although I do reload, I'm at the age now where convenience has become more of a priority than before. My re-posting of the info discovered on the 224Valkyrie forum was not intended to disparage any barrel maker, distributor or reseller, it was to provide newly discovered information that the general consumer could use in their buying decision. The greater majority of the market is comprised of those that rely on off the shelf products, primarily because they really have no choice due to a lack of technical knowledge and expertise. When a source that DOES have the technical acumen (Constructor) identifies a problem and shares that info, the general consumer can benefit from it, even those involved in the supply chain can benefit from it as not all within the supply chain are involved in the complete process of the final end product (completed barrel).

You got a good barrel, happy for you....your barrel isn't performing, here is info you can use to investigate as a possible factor, you haven't bought a barrel yet, here is additional info to add to your research to make a decision.
 
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#72
jssanders7 said:
Hey everyone, new to the forum, but I've been reading on here for a little while and figured I'd see if I could get some help with a problem I've been having with this new round. Shooting the .224 Valkyrie 90 grain Sierra MatchKing factory loads, I have found that about 15% of the rounds I fire are blowing or dropping primers. Its been frustrating in the sense that I've gone through about 180 rounds trying to properly fix the problem. With that being said I've run about 120 rounds of the Federal Fusion 90 grains through the rifle as well. I'm going to give everyone the specs on the rifle, as well as the true data that I've gathered from my last attempt to fix the issue and see if maybe anyone can help diagnose the issue I'm having...

Specs:
Savage MSR Recon .224 Valkyrie
18" Barrel 1/7 twist
Gun is completely stock except for a Silencerco Omega suppressor, and a Magpul PRS Gen III stock

Ammo
.224 Valkyrie Federal Gold Metal Match 90 gr Sierra MK
Box says 2700 FPS (I believe a 24" test barrel)

True data

Zeroing Weather was 71.6 degrees F, 52% humidity, 154 ft. Altitude, BP 30.233
Line of sight angle 4.1 degrees
BC .563 G1
sight height 2.75"

drop at 200 .5" high
zero approx 214 yards
drop at 302 -8.15"
drop at 402 -14.9"

my math puts the muzzle velocity at 2908 fps, and please by all means check me

I've done some reading in some articles that are showing close to 2800 fps out of these particular rounds, but nothing quite to what I can figure on mine without current access to a chronograph, so I was especially particular when gathering these figures, in fact all 5 rounds fired at 400 yards had exactly the same drop to less that 1/10 of an inch. I have the adjustable gas block set 1/2 turn up from the rifle short-stroking. Before anybody asks, the drops are within an inch of each other without the suppressor. In my very limited opening I think its a timing issue, as in the bolt trying to open before the cartridge has been able to turn loose all the way, and I'll include some pictures of the brass at the bottom.

Aside from these issues, that I'm hoping the fine folks here on this forum can help me work out, I'm extremely happy so far with the gun, especially being a stock gun. The trigger is great, and I've consistently shot sub .MOA groups with it out to 520 yards so far. I'd have stretched it much further by now had it not been for the occasional malfunction due to a loose primer. I've sent the last box of ammo back to Federal to be tested for pressure and muzzle velocity to make sure its not an ammo issue. I'm considering trying a heavier buffer to start with to try to slow the bolt opening just a hair to begin with, let me know what you guys think, and thanks...

Pictures

Savage MSR Recon .224 Valkyrie
View attachment 6878658

Brass

View attachment 6878663

View attachment 6878662


View attachment 6878659
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I just came from the range shooting my new savage msr lrp .224 valkerie. Using AE 75gr fmj and blowing primers really bad. Had to stop due to primer lodged in the bolt. Shot almost 20 rnds when this happened. I have some faderal 600gr nosler br to try but I'm not sure if this is an ammunition problem or a defect in the rifle. I have some hornady on order and will try it as well.
 
#73
Woodshark said:
I just came from the range shooting my new savage msr lrp .224 valkerie. Using AE 75gr fmj and blowing primers really bad. Had to stop due to primer lodged in the bolt. Shot almost 20 rnds when this happened. I have some faderal 600gr nosler br to try but I'm not sure if this is an ammunition problem or a defect in the rifle. I have some hornady on order and will try it as well.
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#74
Did you adjust your gas valve to compensate for the suppressor and ammo you are using ? Check the Savage attachment on this thread. I don't think the 1 : 7 Twist Barrel can handle anything more than 90 grains without suffering accuracy issues.
 
#75
Had same problem with my MSR I sent it back to Savage. They told me there is a problem with the barrels and they gave me the option of another rifle or a refund.
 
#76
22NoslerGuy said:
I got my first 224 Valkyrie Savage rifle back in the end of Jan fired 10 rounds had 3 primers out, Called federal and shipped it all back on feb 8th because they thought it might be a ammo issue plus sent all my boxes of ammo, they got it made a decision that it's something in the chamber, so off to savage it went. They received it and I got a new rifle sent with no explanation from Savage what went wrong at the end part of April, fired the new one 2 weeks ago and 2 out of 8 primers came out. So the 2nd rifle is back at Savage and haven't heard anything yet on what we are going to do yet so I called two days ago the rifle has been there for 2 weeks and they are waiting on a gunsmith to look at it! Needless to say I'm in the customer service biz and I'm not very happy right now. Good thing I have a 22 nosler that works! Maybe I should have waited to get bugs worked out?
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I feel your pain! My new MSR is back at savage. Took it to the range the first time and started blowing primers Had a primer jammed in the bolt carrier and had to use a hammer and rod to open the bolt. Savage says they have a fix but are waiting on parts. They wouldn't say what parts they were waiting for. If this doesn't get fixed in a timely manner this will be my last savage!
 
#77
Is Savage still selling the rifles, or pulling them all back for recall? I'd be pissed if I were an unsuspecting buyer and drop a grand on a rifle they knew had problems, then having to send it in and not be able to use it this summer. Some guys don't do forum searching before buying, they just expect new rifles to work.
 
#78
Rlb40x said:
Is Savage still selling the rifles, or pulling them all back for recall? I'd be pissed if I were an unsuspecting buyer and drop a grand on a rifle they knew had problems, then having to send it in and not be able to use it this summer. Some guys don't do forum searching before buying, they just expect new rifles to work.
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As far as I know the rifles are still available. I'm one of those guys that doesn't search forums. I did read all of the reviews I could find but none indicated any problems. I have another MSR in 6.5 cm and it is flawless. I have to admit that i really wanted this rifle to work and had high Hope's. I'm also really dissapointed!
 
#79
Hello everyone. I can relate my own experience with the Valkyrie. I purchased a Savage MSR Valkyrie (the tan and black one) back in April. It took me a while to get it to the range because I had to purchase a scope and had work constraints etc. I had a very similar issue as far as it popping the primers. About 30 to 40% of them were popped with severe swipe/extractor marks on the case heads. I sent the rifle back to Savage with a letter detailing the problem. I specifically mentioned that I felt it was some type of pressue/headspace issue. Long story short- Savage replaced the barrel and returned the rifle to me (I’ll have to check but I think they had it for 4 -5 weeks).
I called every week or so for a status. Not much info was offered “It’s being tested” “Engineering is evaluating it”, “It was taken to the range for testing – it failed and is being returned to the gunsmith for additional work” and so on. I got the rifle back a few days ago. Took it to the range shot 100 rounds through it with no issues whatsoever. Ran like a top. Savage was nice enough to send me 100 rounds of ammo. Kind of a nice gesture I felt. The issues seem to be fixed. They made it right. Figure I’ll continue to do business with Savage.
Thanks to everyone on this and other forums who wrote about their experiences, very helpful.

On a positive note the whole ordeal forced me to get my 308 down to Texas, replace its trigger get it out to the range. I also bought myself a nice little CZ 455 to tide me over while the Valkyrie was being repaired. Anything to justify tinkering with or buying new firearm I suppose…
 
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#80
Abe Froemann said:
Hello everyone. I can relate my own experience with the Valkyrie. I purchased a Savage MSR Valkyrie (the tan and black one) back in April. It took me a while to get it to the range because I had to purchase a scope and had work constraints etc. I had a very similar issue as far as it popping the primers. About 30 to 40% of them were popped with severe swipe/extractor marks on the case heads. I sent the rifle back to Savage with a letter detailing the problem. I specifically mentioned that I felt it was some type of pressue/headspace issue. Long story short- Savage replaced the barrel and returned the rifle to me (I’ll have to check but I think they had it for 4 -5 weeks).
I called every week or so for a status. Not much info was offered “It’s being tested” “Engineering is evaluating it”, “It was taken to the range for testing – it failed and is being returned to the gunsmith for additional work” and so on. I got the rifle back a few days ago. Took it to the range shot 100 rounds through it with no issues whatsoever. Ran like a top. Savage was nice enough to send me 100 rounds of ammo. Kind of a nice gesture I felt. The issues seem to be fixed. They made it right. Figure I’ll continue to do business with Savage.
Thanks to everyone on this and other forums who wrote about their experiences, very helpful.

On a positive note the whole ordeal forced me to get my 308 down to Texas, replace its trigger get it out to the range. I also bought myself a nice little CZ 455 to tide me over while the Valkyrie was being repaired. Anything to justify tinkering with or buying new firearm I suppose…
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I have been shooting the 224 VAL for about 2 months now. My 1st experience with Federal AE 75 grain FMJ was not good. They would not chamber in my rifle. Pulled the bullets- primers- powder and ran ALL the brass thru a RCBS small base die set and reloaded the ammo. The reloads all fed with no malfunctions and shot good groups. Then I bought 3 boxes of the Hornady Match 88 grain ELD and took them to the range. No feeding issues and they shot outstanding groups at 50 yards. [ one hole inside of another one and keyholes] I was shooting at 50 yards to get my scope dialed in precisely. My next trip will take the Hornady ELD 88 grains to 200 yards and dial in the scope for a 200 yard zero. My AR rifle has 1:7 24" barrel.

My opinion only here:
Since all the 1 GEN 224 VAL were shipped with 1:7 barrels I believe Hornady's testing determined that 88 grains was the MAX bullet weight that could be shot accurately in these barrels. [Why are the bullets 88 grains instead of 90 grains?]
I hope to get 1: 6.5 barrel in the future so I can shoot 95 grain SMK's.

I have fired 80 rounds thru my 224 VAL with NO Primer issues.

This cartridge definitely has promise in the AR platform.

I hope to re-barrel a Savage 12 [22-250] with a 1 : 6.5 TR Barrel so I can shoot 95 grains in the 22-250.
 
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#81
JesseB81 said:
I just got 300 new unprimed federal .224 brass. The primer pockets felt sloppy and loose when placing primers. I bet I will pop primers with moderate loads. The brass quality is crap. I had cracked necks fresh out of the bag!
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Other than Hornady, I believe Federal has the softest brass around. I bought a lot of 500 brand new cases from a fellow Hide member of .260 Rem. I got one load out of them before I had to chuck over half of them due to their pockets coming loose. This is the only issue holding me back on the Valkyrie. I'm hoping some quality brass gets released...
 
#83
I am actually interested in the quality of Starline. They seem to have their shit together, especially with offering 6.5 CM with SR primer pockets and what not. I see they're actually about .62/each for the CM brass. That would be better than losing one of my Lapua pieces...losing them during matches drives me bonkers.
 
#84
New member to the forum here. I'm also having issues with my Savage MSR in 224. Bought it in February and had to send it back in March because of loose hand guard and blown primers. Got it back three weeks later with a service invoice that said they had replaced the barrel, polished chamber and changed small parts. Took it to the range and shot 60 rounds of American Eagle 75 grains and 60 rounds of Federal Premium 90 grain Sierra. Tried several shooters and two other scopes and had the same results. First pic were the 75 grainers and that was the best they shot (4 moa). Second and third pic ( two groups in that pic) were the 90 grainers which were also as bad. Sent it back to Savage last week. Also called Federal and was told a rep will return my call (nothing yet). This is my first and last Savage.
 

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#86
I am quite sorry to hear about the troubles others are having with their Valkyries. I apologize up front. I am on a Valkyrie high right now, having had a successful day at everything up to and including 1000 yards today with mine.

Mine is self assembled, out of good quality parts and, in all honesty, took two sessions to adjust the gas and get used to. Then I threw on a good scope, finally, this morning and sighted it in quickly at the club short range before heading over to the long range side. This rifle shot Federal 90g Fusion pretty well to 300 when I was breaking it in, but it really likes the Hornady 88 ELDM loads.

Good fun once you have it dialed in. Most definitely more wind practice, but I like it. For those of you with Savages that sucked, I feel for you and want you to know that this cartridge can really perform if you find somebody that knows how to chamber it properly.
 
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#87
As a bit of a follow up, I’ve had the Savage out to the range again, the 2nd time since Savage fixed it. Still shooting smooth. Shot several groups of five with the 75 grain fmj. Once again, no more primer issues. Group size was in the 1-2 MOA range at 100 yards. Not too bad I suppose. Especially since this is my first AR/MSR and I’m not used to shooting it yet. I’m sure my groups will tighten up with more practice. I’m also starting to price out reloading equipment...
 
#88
Abe Froemann said:
As a bit of a follow up, I’ve had the Savage out to the range again, the 2nd time since Savage fixed it. Still shooting smooth. Shot several groups of five with the 75 grain fmj. Once again, no more primer issues. Group size was in the 1-2 MOA range at 100 yards. Not too bad I suppose. Especially since this is my first AR/MSR and I’m not used to shooting it yet. I’m sure my groups will tighten up with more practice. I’m also starting to price out reloading equipment...
Click to expand...
Have you tried out the Hornady 88g ELDM factory load yet? Those do really well in my rifle, with sub MOA results at 100 and solid performance further out.
 
#89
Called Savage yesterday for an update on my rifle and was told that it's at the range for a third barrel test because the second barrel did not pass testing. They also told me that most likely i will be given a new gun (the same model and caliber). Talk about a bad experience.
 
#91
ValkCreed said:
Called Savage yesterday for an update on my rifle and was told that it's at the range for a third barrel test because the second barrel did not pass testing. They also told me that most likely i will be given a new gun (the same model and caliber). Talk about a bad experience.
Click to expand...


They are clearly doing all they can to help you, and Shit happens. No reason at act like a Twat!
 
#92
ValkCreed said:
Called Savage yesterday for an update on my rifle and was told that it's at the range for a third barrel test because the second barrel did not pass testing. They also told me that most likely i will be given a new gun (the same model and caliber). Talk about a bad experience.
Click to expand...

Sounds like Savage is going to back their product. It could be a lot worse. I had a bad experience with an Online AR dealer in FLA who built me an upper in 224 VAL. The chamber was too tight and the bolt would NOT Lock Up and I had to take the upper to a local gunsmith and pay them to fix it.
 
#93
lash said:
Have you tried out the Hornady 88g ELDM factory load yet? Those do really well in my rifle, with sub MOA results at 100 and solid performance further out.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I have not tried these yet but would likely. I’ve been out of town on business for about two months now. Waiting to get back to Texas.
 
#94
Just got the savage msr back from manufacturer. Service paper says they changed barrel. I had called and was told that it had 2 barrels tested on it. Received it with the handguard being loose. These guys quality control is none existent. Will post and update as soon as i hit the range.
 
#95
Woodshark said:
As far as I know the rifles are still available. I'm one of those guys that doesn't search forums. I did read all of the reviews I could find but none indicated any problems. I have another MSR in 6.5 cm and it is flawless. I have to admit that i really wanted this rifle to work and had high Hope's. I'm also really dissapointed!
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Ok so update time. I got the rifle back from savage with a note saying they changed the barrel. They also sent me 100 rnds of fed 75 gr fmj. Took it to the range and it worked great. No blown primers and no malfunctions. The only problem is it won't shoot any better than 4 moa. I decided to change barrels to a ballistics advantage match barrel. I hope I'm not wasting my money on a new barrel. I just want this rifle to work! I've tried hornady 88gr match ammo as well as 60gr fed and 75gr fed. Thinking about just selling the rifle but I dont want to pass this problem on to someone else.
 
#96
Woodshark said:
Ok so update time. I got the rifle back from savage with a note saying they changed the barrel. They also sent me 100 rnds of fed 75 gr fmj. Took it to the range and it worked great. No blown primers and no malfunctions. The only problem is it won't shoot any better than 4 moa. I decided to change barrels to a ballistics advantage match barrel. I hope I'm not wasting my money on a new barrel. I just want this rifle to work! I've tried hornady 88gr match ammo as well as 60gr fed and 75gr fed. Thinking about just selling the rifle but I dont want to pass this problem on to someone else.
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Hey Woodshark- I'm very interested in how your BA barrel shoots. Have you swapped it yet? Any issues with the swapping process? I'm a bolt gun guy so I have little experience w a gas gun but I was gifted an MSR in 224V and I'm willing to spend money on a good barrel to help me get a shb-MOA rifle. Please keep us posted!
 
#98
DoubleOught-BMA said:
Hey Woodshark- I'm very interested in how your BA barrel shoots. Have you swapped it yet? Any issues with the swapping process? I'm a bolt gun guy so I have little experience w a gas gun but I was gifted an MSR in 224V and I'm willing to spend money on a good barrel to help me get a shb-MOA rifle. Please keep us posted!
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I have not done the swap yet. I thought I would give savage customer service a call first. If they want me to send it in all bets are off. I will not play sending it back and forth again. My plan is to lap the upper receiver and install the match grade barrel. I will keep you posted on progress. Have you fired your rifle yet? Results?
 
#99
Woodshark said:
I have not done the swap yet. I thought I would give savage customer service a call first. If they want me to send it in all bets are off. I will not play sending it back and forth again. My plan is to lap the upper receiver and install the match grade barrel. I will keep you posted on progress. Have you fired your rifle yet? Results?
Click to expand...
I have the rifle stripped down ready for the new barrel. The barrel nut looks to be different than most ar15's but shouldn't be a problem.
 
#100
Woodshark said:
I have not done the swap yet. I thought I would give savage customer service a call first. If they want me to send it in all bets are off. I will not play sending it back and forth again. My plan is to lap the upper receiver and install the match grade barrel. I will keep you posted on progress. Have you fired your rifle yet? Results?
Click to expand...

Negative... haven't shot it yet. I've been focused on a bolt gun purchase for PRS so I haven't touched the MSR. I'll definitely shoot it with different load recipes before I change anything. Still interested in your project though. Good luck!
 
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