History of the SR25

[M4guru]

Damn, Mk11s and Accuracy 1st in the vintage files…I’m getting old. Neat thread.

I should post all the random Accuracy First stuff I have gotten in courses over the years for the faggot in another thread that told me “I just don’t like Tremors because I don’t know how they work…”

 

[M4guru]

You say that til you see the flip side and it has an Uncle Mikes stud instead of a QD!

 

[roostercogburn98]

Lol, agreed. But that PEQ is the boomer in this pic

I figured the PAQ4 series would be the boomers

Stupid phone thinks it can spell better than me

 

[sinister]

Hold-offs are nothing new.

Easier to do with reticle hash marks.

 

[Random Guy]

I'll just note that TC 23-14 is 52 years old...so that qualifies as vintage.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

They wer the "greatest generation" of lasers...


Lol, not really...

You could always buy a New old Stock Peq3

Shark Arms

WELCOME! Please browse our site, email us with questions, orders or feedback: [email protected]

sharkarms.com

 

[M4guru]

PEQ-2A was a bad motherfucker, it’s just the size of a VHS and can’t be repaired when you break knobs and cover studs.

 

[m1marty]

Out of all the gasser 762s I've owned- my Mk11 Mod 0 is easily my favorite.

 

[FatBoy]

Lol, agreed. But that PEQ is the boomer in this pic

Shit, cutting edge for a line unit when I was still in was a PEQ-2 and a PVS-7 (not even a bravo). We held the laser on by bending the clip and sticking a cigarette butt under it and then taping the bitch on with 100 mph tape to try to hold zero. We still had starlight scopes and M-21s in Berlin until we closed out the unit and Furreled the Guidon in ‘94 (6-502nd)

I don’t consider myself old but I sure would like to have one of the old mk11 mod0s. Some very neat rifles and scopes surfacing in this thread.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I should post all the random Accuracy First stuff I have gotten in courses over the years...

That reminds me, I've got a Whiz Wheel floating around somewhere lol.

 

[FatBoy]

Like one of these...
View attachment 7793765

How about one of the original data programs? This one came straight from Bruce. Would have fit well with the 3.5-10 vari-x M3.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Like one of these...
View attachment 7793765

 

[sinister]

Damn, Mk11s and Accuracy 1st in the vintage files…I’m getting old. Neat thread.

I should post all the random Accuracy First stuff I have gotten in courses over the years for the faggot in another thread that told me “I just don’t like Tremors because I don’t know how they work…”

I had a civilian tell me if he was a sniper he'd just use his phone to do all the math and come-ups.

I told him if he violated PERSEC like that with his personal phone (with everything on it) on a combat (or worse yet, a classified combat mission) I'd beat his ass, he looked at me like I had a penis growing out of my forehead.

 

[towerofpower93]

You could always buy a New old Stock Peq3

Shark Arms

WELCOME! Please browse our site, email us with questions, orders or feedback: [email protected]

sharkarms.com

I didn't even know a PEQ-3 was thing...learn something new every day.

Would those mount in the same slot as a PEQ-2 on a PRI rail? Are they even able to be mounted to a standard pic rail? I played with a PEQ-2 for about 15min one day, but rolled with newer stuff downrange so never messed with mounting or zeroing one.

 

[shoobe01]

Yes, the PEQ3s are PEQ2 bodies (and most parts) and the mount on those attaches by that giant screw on top through the body. A good upgrade for pic rail mounting is the LT124. I have one and so far it's been perfectly RTZ. Which for a PEQ2 means: for years and years and years. 300 yd hits on 12" plates level of RTZ. Very reliable.

If the Shark ones don't have good mounts, easily fixable.

And yeah: battery drain when off, no viz much less slaved to signal or check zero, etc but an awful nice unit still. I use my PEQ2 regularly even though I have other, smaller, more "capable" lasers.

 

[M4guru]

I believe the PEQ-3 was a product improved version that primarily went to FMS programs (IE all the Iraqis and Afghanis you saw with what looked like a PEQ-2). The PEQ-15 (and LA-5 for SOF) were already in place when those came out.

I was always pretty fond of the PEQ-2A, it's big but it worked like a champ.

 

[towerofpower93]

Thanks much.

Might jump on one of those -3s for giggles...

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yea not often you can buy a new class 3 laser for that price. Last one I sold was over twice that and it was 15 years ago.

 

[towerofpower93]

Well, I got the PEQ-3 in hand, then bought a PRI MK12 MOD 0 upper from Midway, then got an A1 stock and grip from Apex, and a PSA stealth lower to have as little engraving as possible on it.

You guys are a bad influence

 

[MikeOD82]

Hi Everyone, sorry to bring an old thread back up. I'm trying to research a period correct scope and rings for my SR25 Match, which was made in June of 1994. If you've got any guidance please let me know.

 

[Random Guy]

Hi Everyone, sorry to bring an old thread back up. I'm trying to research a period correct scope and rings for my SR25 Match, which was made in June of 1994. If you've got any guidance please let me know.

Well, back in 1994 the SR-25 was being tested by SOCOM units (SF and NSW guys), and Crane was working with KAC on improvement opportunities. IMO, a more or less "period correct" scope on those prototypes would be a mid-1990s era Leupold Mk 4, 10x, with M1 turrets, and Mil-Dot reticle. A Leupold scope with an "A, B or C" prefix serial number would be a 1993-94-95 era and thus technically "most period correct." Third pic is Eugene Stoner holding an early SR-25. He passed away in 1997 from cancer, so I assume this is a mid-1990s picture. Scope is the same Leupold Mk 4, fixed 10x w/ M1 turrets.

The other tactical scope that SOCOM was using back then was the old B&L Elite 4000 otherwise known as the Tactical 10x, with a Mil-dot reticle. (see 2nd pic) These are a little more hard to find, but sometimes pop-up on eBay. Both the Leupold and B&L have 30mm tubes.

As for rings, I understand that KAC made some 30mm rings for these early SR-25 rifles, but they have been discontinued for a long time.

Another forum member posted the two attached pictures, which show early SR-25s being evaluated. The feedback from that era was reportedly a request for KAC to fix the following issues (and possible more): 1) Old "waffle" pattern mags are not reliable, 2) bolt issues re extractors and lubrication, 3) a 24" barrel is too long, please shorten it to 20", and 4) please develop a sound suppressor with quick-disconnect feature and minimal POI shift. By about 1999 KAC had worked out the bugs, and the Mk 11 Mod 0 was adopted in 2000. By then it used a different Leupold scope with adj 3.5-10x and a BDC turrets.

 

[MikeOD82]

Cool, thank you for the info.

 

[Budrichard]

I ordered my SR25 Light Weight Match direct from Knight’s during the Afgan War.
It has the 5R barrel. If you ordered the SEAL Deployment Kit, Shown in an above Post for $7995, you got an Obermeyer Barrel. The Ring’s shown on my SR25 with Leopold MK4 were ordered from Knight’s with the rifle and other parts for around $3400.
The group shown is at 100 yds and typical for the rifle.
Note the space between 7.62 and Knight’s Armament on the lower, I believe that;s where the MK11 Mod O would have gone had the rifle been Military Issue.

 

[stefan73]

I can only speak from my 10th Group/ Range 37 experience. Generally, in SF the SR25 was only issued to the CIF Sniper Troops. They were provided through a classified equipping program. From my observation they rarely left the arms room. While accurate, they were never considered accurate enough to shoot 3ft over the heads of an assault force stacked at breach point or more importantly for a low percentage H/R type shot.

Later on, the SR25 kits were available to regular SF ODAs through the JOS warehouse loan program. One could also encounter them as part of "house property" during the Kosovo missions.


In regard to the M110 program, USASOC agreed on this point after input from the SOTIC/SFSC Instructors. When the M110 was adopted, it was meant to replace the M24 system as the Army's primary sniper system. The issue directive required all units to turn in their M24s. USASOC was granted a waiver so units could keep their M24s while also being issued the M110 systems. This would also lead to the PSR program search for a single platform, multi caliber bolt gun.

For USASOC the M110 was never really considered anything more than a support sniper system for what I would categorize as "Infantry" type sniping use. At best the M110 was a 1 MOA gun but usually a 1-1.5 MOA gun. There were also trigger issues and the issue with the SFP scope that was issued as part of the initial kit. The SFP scope is a byproduct of Crane being involved with the weapons program for SOCOM. Not sure why but SEALs seem to love the SFP scopes for some reason.

Not the gospel on the subject but from my perspective and I will say 2nd hand knowledge of the SR25/M110 program.

I was at FT Benning 2003-2004 and it happened to be that my neighbors dad worked at BLDG 4 on the program. We had some strong arguments about the pros and cons of the M24 vs the M110. He was a big proponent of the M110 and didn't believe the Army had a place for the M24. To the point where he called me a dinosaur. He was the project officer for Small Arms Branch, Soldier Requirements Division, Maneuver Center of Excellence, Fort Benning, Ga. It makes sense that he was also a former 5th GRP guy. His son was cool!

 

[m1marty]

@Random Guy - slight addendum to the SR25 time line: there was another rifle between the OG "Long Dong" SR25 Match and the Mk11. That rifle was called the Light Weight Match.

20 inch barrel, QD can we know and love and still the tubular handguard.

 

[stefan73]

If someone has contact with MAJ (R) Pavlick, he can fill you in on a lot of the history. I think he is still in the Columbus GA area.

 

[j-huskey]

Charlie Pavlik

 

[Random Guy]

@Random Guy - slight addendum to the SR25 time line: there was another rifle between the OG "Long Dong" SR25 Match and the Mk11. That rifle was called the Light Weight Match.

20 inch barrel, QD can we know and love and still the tubular handguard.

Yes, I think I noted that on my earlier post (#28), but I used their acronym "SpLW Match" or "Special Light Weight Match" which used the first 20" barrels.

4. December 1999, U.S. Army Special Forces purchased 45 of newer 20" barreled SR-25, aka SpLW Match version of the SR-25, and 45 of the new quick-detachable KAC suppressors. (I would consider those 45 SF rifles as basically the Mk 11 Mod 0 prototypes.)

Here's one of those early 20" uppers, with original handguard and the later Mk 11 Mod 0 handguard and gas block....it's a work in progress...

Being a glutton for punishment, I decided I need to slowly buy the stuff that fits in this DRMO'ed Mk 11 case...(but I have no suppressor)

 

[stefan73]

Charlie Pavlik

Charlie Pavlik

Charles Pavlick, he might have gone by Charlie but I didn't have that relationship with him. I mostly enjoyed drinking beer with his son in the historic part of Columbus off of exit 6 down by the park near my former 1SG. I could be wrong about the name it was about 19 years ago. If you could get in touch with him, he would be a great asset for the history.

 

[j-huskey]

I'll see if I can find him, still got a bud in building 4.
@sinister Dave was around there then top. He's very knowledgeable of this topic.

Old contact sed Pavlik was in less than good health the last 5 years, and had lost contact with him. A new contractor CACI is handling Charlie's old work stuff, didn't know him.
Building 4 bud is GS now, hasn't responded.

 

[stefan73]

I'll see if I can find him, still got a bud in building 4.
@sinister Dave was around there then top. He's very knowledgeable of this topic.

Old contact sed Pavlik was in less than good health the last 5 years, and had lost contact with him. A new contractor CACI is handling Charlie's old work stuff, didn't know him.
Building 4 bud is GS now, hasn't responded.

That sucks to hear. His son was a really good guy!! He seemed like a good guy himself (we just didn't agree on the M24). I figured that he had retired for good by now. He was really knowledgeable on the plan for the SR25.

 

[S12A]

In or around 2008 the Australian Army started issuing the SR25 for a new Designated Marksman Rifle Program, I don't know the full ins and outs of it all, we were one of if not the first units to recieve them . They were already in use with snipers.

The difference in the DMR setup can be seen in the third photo, the DMR being the rifle at the rear with a Leupold VX3 2-7 Mildot reticle in Mk4 rings, the one at the front being used by a sniper fitted with a Schmidt. Both had the KAC QD suppressor and our Night Aiming Device (IR laser) and a harris bipod.
Not being a sniper, I wont stray from my lane any further than that, other than to say I really enjoyed my time using the SR25 as limited as that was.

 

[Budrichard]

This is an SR25 Light Weight Match I ordered direct from Knight’s circa 2001, arrived 2002.
The Seal Package offered was $7K, I just ordered the rifle, 6 mags, Knight’s rings and Cleaning Rod for $3500 delivered. Scope was about $800 new off eBay.
Mounted and torqued with Borka, easy peasy.
Watched X-Ring videos.
Rifle is stock except I just added a a Knight’s Ambi Charging Handle that took years to find and a set of Knight’s offset BUIS. Scope is Mark 4 3.5-10 FFP M5 knobs.
Just shot it at the 200yd line at my local Club. Win M118LR.
-Richard

 

[highbclowgr]

I will never forget the day I handled an SR25.

Kicked like a .22 LR.

It was smooth and pretty. Like a 1996 Porsche Carerra or a 2001 BMW M5.

Slick. Beefy. 16 inches.

Those bad boys are the best. Room for improvement however.

 

[m1marty]

Finally rounded out the Mk11 kit. Happy is an understatement.

 

[Budrichard]

What I didn’t purchase!
Very very nice!

 

[brownings_ghost]

Finally rounded out the Mk11 kit. Happy is an understatement.
View attachment 8123342View attachment 8123344View attachment 8123345

Outstanding! That's a dream kit right there!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Chris Kyle mentioned in his book the cans on their Mk 11's were loose and would wobble around. Has anyone else seen this??

If anyone has a pic of their SR25/Mk 11 with the rail pulled off, it'd be much appreciated.

 

[Skunk]

Every Mk11 I’ve had my paws on had a loose/rattling suppressor. Just the way they fit and are retained on the barrel. There’s no way to positively tighten the suppressor onto the mount.
I’ve never considered the Mk11 to be a “precision weapon” like I would a good bolt action.

 

[gol1]

Honestly I can't understand the connection between the SR25 and sniping been shooting them since I was 20 years old, never seen one that I could trust like the m24, just a 1 moa semi auto capable of about 1 m.o.a with lots of pr

 

[Random Guy]

I guess if a sniper needs to put down 15 to 20 accurate rds at a moving object in 15 or 20 seconds, the semi-auto M110 works better than an M24 (see 3 mins in):

 

[sinister]

My friend SFC Tung Nguyen (KIA in Baghdad) showed up at the 2006 Army Long Range Championships with a new M110. I asked him if he was really going to shoot that and he looked all offended. "It's the issued rifle. Of course I am."

He shot the three 600 yard matches the next day, and the next time I saw him he was shooting an M24.

He won the Long Range division that year, and General Dan McNeill (Commanding General Forces Command) awarded him the trophy and a Secretary of the Army M1 Trophy Rifle. He would also win the JSOC Pistol Championships at Bragg before deploying.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Yeah, some S/O teams would run a scoped HK23 as a secondary. More accurate and once everything kicked off could flip over to an MG to help seal off the OBJ. Then a turn in directive took them away as they were getting hard to support with parts.

For the M110 program, to my understanding, in the end it came down to P10 vs P3 dollars. If mother Army was going to flip the bill with their money, then USASOC would take what came out of the program.

You mean the HK23 belt fed 5.56??
The HK23 was in SOCOM inventory/use at one point?? Those things are awesome.. I've literally had dreams of owning a Michael's Machine MM23/HK23 LOL

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You mean the HK23 belt fed 5.56??
The HK23 was in SOCOM inventory/use at one point?? Those things are awesome.. I've literally had dreams of owning a Michael's Machine MM23/HK23 LOL

Is google really that hard. Have you never heard of the MK23 pistol program?

 

[shoobe01]

Um... it says HK23 not Mk23 because those are different things, and also pretty sure the Mk23 doesn't go full auto but... sure

once everything kicked off could flip over to an MG to help seal off the OBJ.

DEVGRU guy in the 90s with HK23

ETA for those that do not know: 23 is a 5.56 version of the HK21 (7.62). Yes, a few used by Delta, SEALs, and I am sure a few other SOF units but I have no proof of those.
HK21 was used rather more by SOF units — even IIRC up to Ranger RGT a bit through the 90s — actually evaluated at the SAW program that got us the Minimi (M249).

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Um... it says HK23 not Mk23 because those are different things, and also pretty sure the Mk23 doesn't go full auto but... sure

My mk23 is full auto.You must have one of the limited versions that they sell at Scheels. Tough break homie. You can't hit anything with it, but it makes beautiful death blossoms.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Is google really that hard. Have you never heard of the MK23 pistol program?

Is reading really that hard?
As @shoobe01 said.. a full auto scoped pistol.. thats more accurate than a SR25..?? LOL read the damn post I quoted before trying to make anyone look stupid buddy.

 

[riflegreen297]

Sorry meant the HK21.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Sorry meant the HK21.View attachment 8228392

How was it as far as reliability/maintenance vs. a M240? IIRC they have a pretty good reputation in that regard, no?