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Hoplite Arms

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Hi,

The breech cylinder is designed to collapse around the bolt lugs in case of big pressure bang; although we have not reached that number yet.

But you talking in regards to a detonation with bolt open?

Sincerely,
Theis
 
W54/XM-388 said:
Quick question
Have you tested to see if the bolt stop is strong enough to stop the bolt coming out of the receiver if for example someone opens the bolt after a hang fire, just in time for one of those huge high pressure rounds to go off?

Somewhere in the future, that might save someone a trip to the hospital, or at least make their trip a bit less expensive.
Click to expand...

It’s designed to break away before the lugs and is replaceable. IE: if someone rips the bolt out it will break before the lugs are damaged.

So in the rare scenario above, probably 50/50 at best I’d think.
 
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THEIS said:
But you talking in regards to a detonation with bolt open?

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...

Yes for example if someone has a round that doesn't go off and they unlock the bolt and the round goes off as they are starting to open the bolt.
 
I did the investigation on one such accident and witnessed one other incident. The later was a hang fire in a competition scenario. Fortunately the bolt wasn't completely open. Only about 90% open. The bolt rotated fast enough that it broke the bolt handle off. There was the imprint of the checkering from the nob on the side of the scope. It then came out clipping several fingers on the hand placed on top of the butt stock. He lost one finger and another severely damaged. The handless bolt penetrated his shoulder passing cleanly between his arm and the socket. I got to him moments after it happened. Not a pretty sight as about 1" of the bolt with the lugs showing were protruding from the front of his shoulder.
The other incident was a customer of mine. Notorious for self inflicted problems. He was closing the bolt, not rotating but closing the bolt when the round detonated. The bolt came back with the handle catching his hand between his thumb and hand. F'd his hand up bad. Fortunately I wasn't the last one to touch this particular rifle. He wanted to sue somebody. I had all the pieces including the round that detonated. To make a long story short the firing pin never touched the primer. The case, a 30-378 Wby, had 6 ejector pin marks on the case head. I'm not sure how it still held a primer. There are only two scenarios that could have set this round off. Both involve the primer backing out allowing powder to enter the primer pocket in front of the primer. Upon slamming the bolt forward, in an attempt to get the round to chamber either the powder detonated from compression or the powder compressed the anvil in the primer to the point of detonating the primer.
From those two examples I can tell you no bolt stop is going to prevent injury.
 
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DAVETOOLEY said:
I did the investigation on one such accident and witnessed one other incident. The later was a hang fire in a competition scenario. Fortunately the bolt wasn't completely open. Only about 90% open. The bolt rotated fast enough that it broke the bolt handle off. There was the imprint of the checkering from the nob on the side of the scope. It then came out clipping several fingers on the hand placed on top of the butt stock. He lost one finger and another severely damaged. The handless bolt penetrated his shoulder passing cleanly between his arm and the socket. I got to him moments after it happened. Not a pretty sight as about 1" of the bolt with the lugs showing were protruding from the front of his shoulder.
The other incident was a customer of mine. Notorious for self inflicted problems. He was closing the bolt, not rotating but closing the bolt when the round detonated. The bolt came back with the handle catching his hand between his thumb and hand. F'd his hand up bad. Fortunately I wasn't the last one to touch this particular rifle. He wanted to sue somebody. I had all the pieces including the round that detonated. To make a long story short the firing pin never touched the primer. The case, a 30-378 Wby, had 6 ejector pin marks on the case head. I'm not sure how it still held a primer. There are only two scenarios that could have set this round off. Both involve the primer backing out allowing powder to enter the primer pocket in front of the primer. Upon slamming the bolt forward, in an attempt to get the round to chamber either the powder detonated from compression or the powder compressed the anvil in the primer to the point of detonating the primer.
From those two examples I can tell you no bolt stop is going to prevent injury.
Click to expand...

And......with that story I’m tossing my 10 cases with loose primer pockets that I was considering getting one more firing from.
 
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Dthomas3523 said:
Also @THEIS, you made a system so simple, there’s nothing really to talk about.

It works and doesn’t have a lot of pieces.
Click to expand...

Hi,

THANKS!!
It really is hard to highlight the simplicity yet usefulness of the features via forum pictures and posts but being able to put hands and eyes directly on them it becomes clear just how the parts that DO move function WITH each other and the parts that do NOT move are by design and purpose to make the entire package "Simple".

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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Hi,

Ok, for the Sentinel "holdouts" lolol.....R&D is lining out the internal chassis design specifications very soon.
This will allow us to drop barreled actions into it and go!!
In talks with Terry today on best way to get ramped up on Sentinels since from our Shot Show talks with visitors...the Sentinels are going to be like a 3:1 ratio to our full chassis.

Spending day tomorrow with Don Geraci to discuss a few things...should be interesting outcome(s) from that... :)

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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equilibrium said:
Will the LA’s also have a internal chassis for the Sentinel?
Click to expand...

Hi,

We will see how small we can get the internal chassis in regards to width/height to ensure enough "stock" surrounds it but at first measurements there should not be a problem.

While we wait for R&D to finish that up; here is the DBM for the Kopis (Top) and Aspis (Bottom) that are ready for Sentinels.
4130 vacuum hardened to 45 HRC

DBM.jpg


Sincerely,
Theis
 
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THEIS said:
Hi,

Ok, for the Sentinel "holdouts" lolol.....R&D is lining out the internal chassis design specifications very soon.
This will allow us to drop barreled actions into it and go!!
In talks with Terry today on best way to get ramped up on Sentinels since from our Shot Show talks with visitors...the Sentinels are going to be like a 3:1 ratio to our full chassis.

Spending day tomorrow with Don Geraci to discuss a few things...should be interesting outcome(s) from that... :)

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
I need to warn Don about you or should that be the other way around.
 
Last edited:
DAVETOOLEY said:
From those two examples I can tell you no bolt stop is going to prevent injury.
Click to expand...

Mr. Tooley is absolutely right on the money here. Just for everybody’s safety around here, I would like to put a bit more emphasis on Mr. Tooley’s comment. No bolt stop in any rifle known to man would stop a rearwards flying bolt and prevent injury. The function of a bolt stop is not to prevent a bolt from flying rearwards when a chamber is pressurized. That is what the closed breech is for. With even regular pressure rounds we are already dealing with very high pressures. Proof loads go up to at least 5500 bar (according to C.I.P standard, depending on caliber). As you all know we’re not exactly talking about car tire pressures here, lol.

In order to eliminate lack of a user’s common sense as a factor, sure one could put a secondary breech closing system to safeguard the primary breech closing system. Maybe even put a third system to safeguard the second and so on. Think of opening several locks before you are finally able to fire the damn thing or to be able to feed the next round in. Still, I bet most likely we would hear of one user out of millions who was able to go around the safeguards just doing stuff with no care in the world and hurt him-/herself. Despite of the fact how safe guns nowadays are, a gun is always still a potential fragmentation grenade in your hands and without any common sense while using it, one is most likely to get hurt one way or the other.
 
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DAVETOOLEY said:
I did the investigation on one such accident and witnessed one other incident. The later was a hang fire in a competition scenario. Fortunately the bolt wasn't completely open. Only about 90% open. The bolt rotated fast enough that it broke the bolt handle off. There was the imprint of the checkering from the nob on the side of the scope. It then came out clipping several fingers on the hand placed on top of the butt stock. He lost one finger and another severely damaged. The handless bolt penetrated his shoulder passing cleanly between his arm and the socket. I got to him moments after it happened. Not a pretty sight as about 1" of the bolt with the lugs showing were protruding from the front of his shoulder.
The other incident was a customer of mine. Notorious for self inflicted problems. He was closing the bolt, not rotating but closing the bolt when the round detonated. The bolt came back with the handle catching his hand between his thumb and hand. F'd his hand up bad. Fortunately I wasn't the last one to touch this particular rifle. He wanted to sue somebody. I had all the pieces including the round that detonated. To make a long story short the firing pin never touched the primer. The case, a 30-378 Wby, had 6 ejector pin marks on the case head. I'm not sure how it still held a primer. There are only two scenarios that could have set this round off. Both involve the primer backing out allowing powder to enter the primer pocket in front of the primer. Upon slamming the bolt forward, in an attempt to get the round to chamber either the powder detonated from compression or the powder compressed the anvil in the primer to the point of detonating the primer.
From those two examples I can tell you no bolt stop is going to prevent injury.
Click to expand...


What was the cause for the first incident described above? Was it preventable?
 
Culpeper said:
What was the cause for the first incident described above? Was it preventable?
Click to expand...

Yes it was preventable.
1. Engage brain. Bad shit will happen if you're not careful. I have seen a lot over the years.
2. Don't run excessive pressures. Nothing good comes from it. Which leads to, see #3
3. Don't use cases with extremely loose primer pockets.
4. If it doesn't chamber easily don't force it. For a lot of reasons. He slammed the bolt in an attempt to chamber the round.
 
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I’m bummed I didn’t get a chance to see this at Shot. I didn’t realize the top floor was done early. I didn’t get to the show until Thursday morning. I was really looking forward to checking out the finished product in person.
 
PBWalsh said:
@THEIS

What does that 18” .308 in the Sentinel weigh?
Click to expand...

Hi,

As pictured it is 12.6 pounds with the 18" MTU barrel.

Sincerely,
Theis

Dthomas3523 said:
Holy shit dude, stop. I can only get so hard.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Still some things to work out.....The Sentinel has a lot of shape changes and geometrical shapes so it is hard to get flat things to line up evenly, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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@THEIS

Thank you for the weight, looks extremely nice. Looking forward to seeing what the price and full specs of these rifles are when they are ready for market!
 
THEIS said:
Hi,

As pictured it is 12.6 pounds with the 18" MTU barrel.

Sincerely,
Theis



Hi,

Still some things to work out.....The Sentinel has a lot of shape changes and geometrical shapes so it is hard to get flat things to line up evenly, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
I’m saving my pennies.
 
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Farmerdanss said:
View attachment 7241432

@THEIS
How the hell did you manage to scratch up that Birdsong?!

Or is it concrete residue?
Click to expand...

Hi,

LOLOL Neither....those handguards are anodized, not birdsong..but we have been able to wear some marks in the birdsong on the interior section of receiver and bolt friction interface.

Handguards and Chassis are being transitioned to Cerakote since they are 7075 Aluminum. The wear samples are showing cerakote is harder to get off than the anodizing...and we can control the cerakote process; unlike the anodizing process.

Edited To Add:
We fully intend on the T&E rifles we will be sending out to be returned to us with enough wear/tear, bumps/bruises that it will speed up the coating test exponentially :)
We are sending some stuff out this coming week for a couple different coatings for personal experience with too.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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Is there a large cost difference between a class iii anodizing and birdsong? How big a difference? Asking for a friend.
I would assume there is..since you didnt put it on the handguards.
Or was there another factor in making that decision?
 
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THEIS said:
Hi,

LOLOL Neither....those handguards are anodized, not birdsong..but we have been able to wear some marks in the birdsong on the interior section of receiver and bolt friction interface.

Handguards and Chassis are being transitioned to Cerakote since they are 7075 Aluminum. The wear samples are showing cerakote is harder to get off than the anodizing...and we can control the cerakote process; unlike the anodizing process.

Edited To Add:
We fully intend on the T&E rifles we will be sending out to be returned to us with enough wear/tear, bumps/bruises that it will speed up the coating test exponentially :)
We are sending some stuff out this coming week for a couple different coatings for personal experience with too.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...
Oh it’ll be scratched alright
 
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[/QUOTE]
lash said:
Whatever you do, DON’T use a black light...
Click to expand...

Guys. Long time ago I did some competition shooting. I’m all into hunting nowadays. Back in the day I used a caliber/calibre not so common around where I live, just to find out they were popular to be picked by others as of rarity. One day I went to the range with a light and stated: ”you know guys, all my cases are covered with my own piss when I reload. That’s the way I find my own property around here”. I still wonder why I only recovered 95% of my own brass...Some people will just do anything to ger some free cartridge cases...
 
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THEIS said:
Hi,

Handguards and Chassis are being transitioned to Cerakote since they are 7075 Aluminum. The wear samples are showing cerakote is harder to get off than the anodizing...and we can control the cerakote process; unlike the anodizing process.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...

Ask FN about their “50 shades of anodized FDE“ rifles ?
 
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