Me watching this thread hoping all of my customers are satisfied....
Night Vision Hot or Not? Post your tube specs and vote here!
- Thread starter TheHorta
- Start date
Source: TNVC
Price Paid: $$$
NOD Model: PVS-14
Tube MFG/Model/Part: L3 Unfilmed WP
Sensitivity: 2511
Halo: .7
EBI: .4
SN: 34.4
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2511
Small Zone 2 blem that I don’t notice outdoors, not an issue for me. Really happy with performance, but I don’t know enough to know what’s considered amazing. Got it mounted on a G11, no complaints there. Very happy with TNVC’s service, I’ll buy from them again.
Price Paid: $$$
NOD Model: PVS-14
Tube MFG/Model/Part: L3 Unfilmed WP
Sensitivity: 2511
Halo: .7
EBI: .4
SN: 34.4
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2511
Small Zone 2 blem that I don’t notice outdoors, not an issue for me. Really happy with performance, but I don’t know enough to know what’s considered amazing. Got it mounted on a G11, no complaints there. Very happy with TNVC’s service, I’ll buy from them again.
Those are fantastic specs. Very nice on paper, and the fact that you're happy with it means even more. The calculation for FoM seems a little off though, I imagine you doubled up the # shown for PC sensitivity. Looks like FoM is 2202 (and the important side of it, S:N is very good).
Works out to 72LP if you divide his FOM by his S/N. Probably read the wrong column.
You’re right, I just wrote the wrong thing down! Still figuring out what’s what on the sheet. Glad to know it’s considered a great tube, even though I didn’t have concerns.
Christmas came early, Lee and his group really came thru with L3 24UA Tubes!
Nightline Inc
Mod3 B
L3 Unfilmed WP
Halo: .6/.7
EBI: .6/.4
SN: 35.2/ 35.4
Resolution: 72/72
FOM: 2534/2549
Have looked thru many thin-filmed elbit and (20,22) UA L3 tubes, these are the best Ive seen. The FPN is non-existant like thin-films, with all the defining characteristics of unfilmed.
I've done a few transactions with Nightline at this point. They're website isn't as developed as some of the newer businesses, but dont be fooled; solid business, has been around for decades, and very easy to deal with.
Nightline Inc
Mod3 B
L3 Unfilmed WP
Halo: .6/.7
EBI: .6/.4
SN: 35.2/ 35.4
Resolution: 72/72
FOM: 2534/2549
Have looked thru many thin-filmed elbit and (20,22) UA L3 tubes, these are the best Ive seen. The FPN is non-existant like thin-films, with all the defining characteristics of unfilmed.
I've done a few transactions with Nightline at this point. They're website isn't as developed as some of the newer businesses, but dont be fooled; solid business, has been around for decades, and very easy to deal with.
Would be interested to look through yours vs mine. I have about identical specs from TNVC and my tubes are the 18um. Extremely happy with mine. I honestly wonder if there is a clarity difference in the 24ua to the 18um. Again almost identical specs. Was there a significant upcharge for the "24ua"?
Im in lower NY so if you're ever in the area, I'd be happy to do so. Like I've said, seen more than a few sets of 20 & 22 UA tubes; these 24s are definitely nicer.
We can assure you there are no clarity difference between a 18um and 24ua with all specs being equal. Some fake news on the internet spilling this along with unfilmed tubes degrade after 500hrs. It's unfortunate. Thank you for the business Sir.
I think this was indirectly at me so I'm going to chime in.
Clarity in this context is a bit of a intentional misnomer. Vic you and your team obviously have much more experience than me. But there is more to making a tube look good than just a "clean" spec sheet.
The FPN for one can vary and based on my experience is pretty much unnoticeable on thin-films, but can vary greatly on unfilmed. This was what I was alluding to with the 24s I own. They appear to be as unnoticeable as thin-films I've seen.
On top of that specs >.003" are not counted on spec sheets, so you can have a "clean" spec sheet, but a tube riddled with peppering uniformly, in one quadrant, or just a few randomly. My set literally has none in z1 &z2, and only a few in the very edge where they're for all practical purposes invisible.
There is also the not often talked about phosphor wash, which isn't even a specification considered by manufacturers on the spec sheet. The "streaking", "linen", "patterns" people will see when looking at a light uniform background. My set is free of this.
Would two tubes of any grade with the same specs perform the same in its ability to clearly resolve an image, absolutely. But does that mean both images would look equally as "nice", based upon my experience no. I am of course not saying a hand picked 18UM for picture quality, out of a lot, would not be able to look as nice. But am not sure that'd be doable for everyone. On the other side of the coin I also made no inference that my set is somehow representative of all 24UAs, though I do have two sets that are both equally as nice.
Yes this is being nit picky because this hobby is expensive, and it is a hobby for me, did I mention its expensive. No these are not for work, where a clean spec sheet is more than enough and peppering/phosphor wash is moot since both grades of tubes will work equally as well, all specs equal.
Edit: Just realized sheepdog brought up the term clarity.I am not sure if theres a better term, but I think image quality is what I'd use and say is better in the sets of 24s I have than the multiple sets of 20 and 22ua tubes I've looked thru. So agreed no difference in clarity, but image quality from what I've seen is a different story. Maybe Ive just been fortunate.
Lastly I am a N=1, YMMV.
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Was home a couple weeks ago to look thru my un-filmed WP 14's and the image quality didn't blow my cock off like I thought it would compared to all the green tubes I've used. I was in a high light pollution area, need to go out to the country and look thru them in the pitch black.
^^^^this is exactly what I was told by the first vendor I spoke to when I began looking into Nods.
I tend to record all calls, I didn't misunderstand or mis-hear.
That vendor then became evasive when asked to provide specs of any kind.
It's sad that the current state of affairs rewards that kind on business model.
PM me if you'd like a copy.
Right on, located in Indiana myslef. Still wondering, Did you end up having to pay a premium for the 24ua? I believe my setup through TNVC was about $9k, and they didnt upcharge for the specific minimum specs i requested.
Right now in the NV world its pick 2 of the following 3: price, quality, wait. There definetly was a bit of premium, but they already gave me a good deal so I'm not disclosing the price.
Some dealers were actually asking the same price for 22ua what Lee charged me.
Taking into account lead times now are close to half a year, very happy with what I got.
Some dealers were actually asking the same price for 22ua what Lee charged me.
Taking into account lead times now are close to half a year, very happy with what I got.
So I don't have night vision of any sort so I can't post specs.
Trying to understand what each of the specs mean. Like on these are higher numbers better or worse? Or does anybody have a source that explains how the different numbers affect the final result?
Trying to understand what each of the specs mean. Like on these are higher numbers better or worse? Or does anybody have a source that explains how the different numbers affect the final result?
Friday Night Lights: Understanding Night Vision Specs And Generations -
In this week's edition of FNL, I try to help you wade through the flood of information regarding night vision specs. What should you focus on and even what generation to get.
www.thefirearmblog.com Edit: this man's word is gold^^^, being so baller hes not financially biased to anything so he says it like it is.
I will add, many NOD noobs get paralysis by analysis and go spec-crazy.
The reality is, under 99% of circumstances, you’ll be just as fine with an 1800 FOM GP Omni-Whatever PVS-14 as you will be with the latest and greatest L3 WP 2500 FOM unit.
If my total budget was $5K and tomorrow was SHTF, I’d buy a $2K PVS-14 off FleaBay today followed by a PGD helmet, Rhino II, TNVC Mohawk Counterweight, S&S IR V-Lite, Princeton Tech, a TNVC TOR laser for my rifle along with a SF Vampire for WL/IR illumination. Then I’d take the extra $2K and buy a decent thermal monocular, maybe a Breach (which I’m not a big fan of) for “dual band” or a AGM or Bering Optics 384px handheld unit.
That would be my low-cost full kit.
The reality is, under 99% of circumstances, you’ll be just as fine with an 1800 FOM GP Omni-Whatever PVS-14 as you will be with the latest and greatest L3 WP 2500 FOM unit.
If my total budget was $5K and tomorrow was SHTF, I’d buy a $2K PVS-14 off FleaBay today followed by a PGD helmet, Rhino II, TNVC Mohawk Counterweight, S&S IR V-Lite, Princeton Tech, a TNVC TOR laser for my rifle along with a SF Vampire for WL/IR illumination. Then I’d take the extra $2K and buy a decent thermal monocular, maybe a Breach (which I’m not a big fan of) for “dual band” or a AGM or Bering Optics 384px handheld unit.
That would be my low-cost full kit.
Source: N-Vision
Price Paid: 3300
NOD Model: PVS-14
Tube Model: L3 Filmless, Zone 3 Blem
Halo: 0.8
EBI: 0.9
SN: 32.1
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2054
Purchased Dec 2020. Time to door 1.5 weeks.
Photo in very dark cold storage room. Find the zone 3 blem... it took me awhile when I got the tube lol....
For anyone learning NV specs I suggest checking out Nocturnality's Instagram. They do a good job of talking about specs and then showing comparison examples so you can compare real world spec and tech differences.
Price Paid: 3300
NOD Model: PVS-14
Tube Model: L3 Filmless, Zone 3 Blem
Halo: 0.8
EBI: 0.9
SN: 32.1
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2054
Purchased Dec 2020. Time to door 1.5 weeks.
Photo in very dark cold storage room. Find the zone 3 blem... it took me awhile when I got the tube lol....
For anyone learning NV specs I suggest checking out Nocturnality's Instagram. They do a good job of talking about specs and then showing comparison examples so you can compare real world spec and tech differences.
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It’s totally awesome that you came back in time to tell us about your tube specs!
3300 is a good price for filmless.
Imo the n-vision zone 3 blems are the best deal in night vision other than maybe winning the XLS supertube lottery. They guarantee SNR > 30 and let you handpick from what they have available. My tube is from a 22um batch I think.
I think kosher might have had some zone 3 unfilmed last year around 3100. You could hand select from them as well. (I believe). Price is probably higher now with demand.
source: used TNVC unit purchased here
price paid: 2700$
tube model: ITT pinnacle omni 8
halo: .9
ebi: 1.86
sn: 28
res: 64
fom: 1792
was planning on purchasing a new filmeless unit from another vendor but this popped up and is under the awesome tnvc warranty, so I felt I couldn't go wrong. I don't have a ton of friends into nvg yet though I'm changing that, so eventually I plan on order another one from them new and bridging them.
I moved over from a gen 2 + white unit and am happy to have stepped up to a gen 3
price paid: 2700$
tube model: ITT pinnacle omni 8
halo: .9
ebi: 1.86
sn: 28
res: 64
fom: 1792
was planning on purchasing a new filmeless unit from another vendor but this popped up and is under the awesome tnvc warranty, so I felt I couldn't go wrong. I don't have a ton of friends into nvg yet though I'm changing that, so eventually I plan on order another one from them new and bridging them.
I moved over from a gen 2 + white unit and am happy to have stepped up to a gen 3
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Source: second hand
Price Paid: 3200€
NOD Model: (PVS-14)
Tube MFG/Model/Part: 4g wp
Sensitivity: ///
Halo:0.79
EBI:0.23
SN:32.29
Resolution:69
FOM:2228
Gain:11820
Source: second hand
Price Paid: 3500€
NOD Model: (PVS-14)
Tube MFG/Model/Part: 4g+ wp
Sensitivity: ///
Halo:0.72
EBI:0.06
SN:34.2
Resolution:73
FOM:2496
Gain:12912
Price Paid: 3200€
NOD Model: (PVS-14)
Tube MFG/Model/Part: 4g wp
Sensitivity: ///
Halo:0.79
EBI:0.23
SN:32.29
Resolution:69
FOM:2228
Gain:11820
Source: second hand
Price Paid: 3500€
NOD Model: (PVS-14)
Tube MFG/Model/Part: 4g+ wp
Sensitivity: ///
Halo:0.72
EBI:0.06
SN:34.2
Resolution:73
FOM:2496
Gain:12912
Picked up for $3,500 from NV4L, didn't get any discount on this, but did on a helmet mount, so some help. December 2020
This is from site:
Photonis 4G ECHO Autogated Unfilmed White Phosphor PVS-14 Hand Select
Latest production Photonis 4G ECHO Unfilmed autogated image tubes
Photonis is a European tube, Gen 2 Unfilmed Hybrid, performs like USA Gen 3
White Phosphor Technology
27 or Higher SNR
62 lp/mm or Higher
Most Versatile Piece of Night Vision Equipment (Multi-Use)
Autogated/Pinnacle Technology for Superior Performance in "Light Polluted Areas"
Mil Spec Optics Quality
Manual Gain Control
Compact and Lightweight
Head Mounted Hands Free Ability
Includes Headmount Assembly and Swing Arm Adapter (for switching between left and right eyes)
Weapon Mountable
Internal Low-Battery & IR Indicators
Combat Proven Ruggedness
Waterproof up to 66'
10 Year Warranty
Halo: .84
EBI: .09
SN: 34.5
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2208
No blemishes
This is from site:
Photonis 4G ECHO Autogated Unfilmed White Phosphor PVS-14 Hand Select
Latest production Photonis 4G ECHO Unfilmed autogated image tubes
Photonis is a European tube, Gen 2 Unfilmed Hybrid, performs like USA Gen 3
White Phosphor Technology
27 or Higher SNR
62 lp/mm or Higher
Most Versatile Piece of Night Vision Equipment (Multi-Use)
Autogated/Pinnacle Technology for Superior Performance in "Light Polluted Areas"
Mil Spec Optics Quality
Manual Gain Control
Compact and Lightweight
Head Mounted Hands Free Ability
Includes Headmount Assembly and Swing Arm Adapter (for switching between left and right eyes)
Weapon Mountable
Internal Low-Battery & IR Indicators
Combat Proven Ruggedness
Waterproof up to 66'
10 Year Warranty
Halo: .84
EBI: .09
SN: 34.5
Resolution: 64
FOM: 2208
No blemishes
Are you sure you have FOM 2829...not looking for any trouble here? I know people like me with relatively low posts get flamed for asking questions like this.
According to the Exelis factory spec sheet, yeah.
I believe this is ITAR legal to post:
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To my understanding, subject to correction, posting the full sheet including the actual tube identification information could be an ITAR violation. Redacting the identifying information is kosher.
BNVD-UL L3 WP fIlmless 11769
SNR: 38.6/39.5
RES: 72/72
FOM: 2779/2844
EBI: 1.0/.8
HALO: .7/.7
PS: 2808/2743
LG: 69313/61474
BLEM: NONE/1 ZONE 2 .003-.006
VENDOR: JRH, satisfied. Previous tubes had lower ebi at .2/.3 but lower SNR at 32/34 and mismatched HALO which I found distracting. These have much higher SNR, matching halo and good but not as good EBI. Happy with new tubes, great deal of clarity, waiting for dark night to really watch them. Would like to compare the polycarbonate lenses against PVS-14 glass someday, some polycarbonate actually have higher light transmission than glass and less glare. I would assume this is the polycarbonate in my BNVD UL. Blem doesnt really concern me as it disappears in almost all actual usage and I would take a blame tube with higher spec over non blem with lower spec anyday. I do not like FPN though, dealbreaker for me.
SNR: 38.6/39.5
RES: 72/72
FOM: 2779/2844
EBI: 1.0/.8
HALO: .7/.7
PS: 2808/2743
LG: 69313/61474
BLEM: NONE/1 ZONE 2 .003-.006
VENDOR: JRH, satisfied. Previous tubes had lower ebi at .2/.3 but lower SNR at 32/34 and mismatched HALO which I found distracting. These have much higher SNR, matching halo and good but not as good EBI. Happy with new tubes, great deal of clarity, waiting for dark night to really watch them. Would like to compare the polycarbonate lenses against PVS-14 glass someday, some polycarbonate actually have higher light transmission than glass and less glare. I would assume this is the polycarbonate in my BNVD UL. Blem doesnt really concern me as it disappears in almost all actual usage and I would take a blame tube with higher spec over non blem with lower spec anyday. I do not like FPN though, dealbreaker for me.
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Nice specs! Did you have to pay extra to get hand select tubes?
Sheepdog697 asked-
"Nice specs! Did you have to pay extra to get hand select tubes?" (Sorry don't know how to do quotes here)
No, we do not charge for that. The higher spec L3 filmless tubes do cost more however. -And take forever to get...
"Nice specs! Did you have to pay extra to get hand select tubes?" (Sorry don't know how to do quotes here)
No, we do not charge for that. The higher spec L3 filmless tubes do cost more however. -And take forever to get...
Here is how you do it.
Click in the circles.
Reply to do just that post. Easier than quote. This is what I did for this reply.
Quote if you want to do multiple different posts. Then arrange in what order you want. Insert.
Mobile
Computer (screen shot from my phone)
Thanks.
I'm showing "55 insert quotes" in that little box LOL. I've been doing something wrong for a while now LOL.
I'm showing "55 insert quotes" in that little box LOL. I've been doing something wrong for a while now LOL.
To insert quotes you have to go down to the box and press the Insert Quote button. You can also clear out old quotes in the box as well.
I would suggest trying the Reply button.
Yes. Press the Insert Quotes button in the box on the bottom. Then click the Remove in the box that pops open. Works about the same as far as I can tell computer or not.
Sorry I don't have any other on topic things to add to this thread. Just figured I would help a newer Commercial Supporter be more familiar with the site. If we are nice and helpful we can maybe help other potential supporters want to join the Hide.
The "And take forever to get ..." part must be the extra time it takes for the "overcooking" that NSFJoJo used to talk about.
Sorry guys, just had to have some fun with that.
I miss JoJo. You could always count on him to liven up the Partee.
got a link? I’m looking on their website but haven’t found these yet.
Guess I'll resurrect this thread. I really wanted to show appreciation for the company that hooked me up with killer tubes in my first binos. I've had the unit almost two weeks and hadn't even looked at the specs until yesterday--just out of curiosity.
Apollo Gear Co.
L3 18UM Unfilmed WP in UANVB Katana
PC: 2545 / 2609
Halo: 0.7 / 0.7
EBI: 0.9 / 0.9
S/N: 38.4 / 38.3
Resolution: 72 / 72
FOM: 2765 / 2758
No spots on data sheets. Some peppering on outer circumference, but nothing distracting.
Wait time: 3-4 weeks
Price paid: 9800
I'm afraid they set the bar too high for my next set
Apollo Gear Co.
L3 18UM Unfilmed WP in UANVB Katana
PC: 2545 / 2609
Halo: 0.7 / 0.7
EBI: 0.9 / 0.9
S/N: 38.4 / 38.3
Resolution: 72 / 72
FOM: 2765 / 2758
No spots on data sheets. Some peppering on outer circumference, but nothing distracting.
Wait time: 3-4 weeks
Price paid: 9800
I'm afraid they set the bar too high for my next set
Nightgoggles inc
PVS-14
Elbit USA thin filmed WP
Luminous 2366
EBI: 1.54
SN: 33.7
Resolution: 81
FOM: 2729.7
$2585
Overall for my first jump into NV I am happy. Let me know if anything stands out to all with alot more experience
PVS-14
Elbit USA thin filmed WP
Luminous 2366
EBI: 1.54
SN: 33.7
Resolution: 81
FOM: 2729.7
$2585
Overall for my first jump into NV I am happy. Let me know if anything stands out to all with alot more experience
Jay / SureShot NV
Just shy of $20,000
DTNVS with RPO glass
Dual 1702 4um L3 Unfilmed WP
3695 / 3303 FOM
91 LP / 40.6 SN
91 LP / 36.3 SN
Dear Lord…
Top .0001
Top .0001
Really curious how these compare to a regular run of the mill spec UWP L3
