I know a few guys doing the NEVER clean method where they are doing load development again at around 400-500 rounds on 6 BR's, BRX, BRA and Dashers with good luck. One has over 1900 rounds on his using this method and it's still hammering chambered in BRA. I have suspicions that velocity might play a roll in this? Pushing OVER 3000 fps, this might not work as well at these smaller 6's running 2850 - 3000.
- Thread starter Rmitch223
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Barrel makers love him!
I just dribble some hoppes on a boresnake (the bristly part) pull it through a few times then put few drops of oil about 2/3rds of the way down the snake and pull it through a few more times... the theory is that the cleaner makes me feel better and the oil placement will allow the boresnake to wipe up the excess cleaner then apply some oil but have a little bit of snake left to wipe up any excess oil... in reality this probably doesnt accomplish much but it makes it shiny when I look in there so I feel good putting it away until next time.
The barrel I usual clean 3-400 rounds dependent. But I clean my bolt and chamber after almost every firing.
a lot out perform Hoppes. bore tech c4/eliminator is my preference
Anyone else use CLR to remove carbon? Cheap as $h!t and works awesome. I follow up with Wipe Out Patch Out but just a couple patches, I don't ever take all the copper out.
I get quicker results with Butch's Boreshine.
I use to think my rifles were clean, until I put a patch of this stuff down them.
Last week I decided to do a thorough cleaning with JB. Next match I felt the effects. Took close to 30 rounds to get close to the accuracy I had. I want be doing much more than the occasional cleaning from now on.
I never had either...until my last 6.5 Creed Barrel
250 rounds in, with only 1 mild cleaning...I patched it out and remeasured lands for any change using my normal method (mostly gravity on the rod, light pressure), I was getting like .025” shorter measurement than brand new...if I pushed the rod firmly, I could feel the bullet “dragging” before it seated...when I removed the bullet it was scratched up....I rechecked it 3x same result
Patched it out with CLR and a nylon brush, let sit for 30 min then cleaned it out...patches came out in pretty black.
Remeasured using my original method, back to .001-.002 longer than my original measurements as expected...pressing firmly on the rod didn’t feel any rubbing or dragging
I didn’t notice any downrange effects, think I caught it just quick enough, but it was definitely close to interfering with my loaded rounds being .020” off the lands
I usually clean every 250 to maybe 400 rounds.
I never wait till accuracy goes to crap anymore.
Usually I use wipe out and patches.
I never wait till accuracy goes to crap anymore.
Usually I use wipe out and patches.
I have encountered the carbon ring. I shoot a FN SPR with the factory barrel. I was of the opinion to not clean tell groups opened up. And open up it did. Groups went from F T/R winning to shotgun. I initially suspected something loose on the rifle. Checked everything, every bolt, scree, the bedding and swapped scopes. Nothing. Checked with fgmm which it puts sub .5 moa. 1.5+ moa. Finally cleaned it with bore paste and Montana Extreme Copper Killer. Took a few rounds to settle down but it's back to sun .5 MOA.
Carbon ring was around 500 rounds. Verified by borescope not believing it was a cleaning issue(I did clean it with foaming bore cleaner and brushes after it went to shit and before all the part checking). Now I clean every 200 rounds or once a month which ever comes first.
Carbon ring was around 500 rounds. Verified by borescope not believing it was a cleaning issue(I did clean it with foaming bore cleaner and brushes after it went to shit and before all the part checking). Now I clean every 200 rounds or once a month which ever comes first.
with my bolt gun i do the normal break in method but after that nothing goes in the barrel other than brush after every match. I found the barrels to be less finicky than when i used to clean them completely after matches. Its just personal preference as long as the guns shooting good stick to whatever routine you want.
My 308 is the same way . I have not cleaned in 150 rounds , my groups have stayed the same considering my shooting ability , I may not clean until 500 rounds or if my groups start to fade away.
i clean after every outing, use wipe out - patch out, stuff works great and no smell. little lubriplate on the lugs.
I’ve tried cleaning after every outing. Everyone I’ve talked to has always told me to just clean once the accuracy drops off. I’ve been doing that and I haven’t noticed any negative effects. I enjoy not having to spend the time to clean all of my rifles which is a big positive to me.
I clean after every match. For a 2 day match that's usually 250-300 rounds. For a one day its 100-150. I noticed when I cleaned every 500-600 rounds I would get a zero shift in the middle of a match sometimes and I also noticed that the carbon build up in the throat was extremely difficult to clean. I've switched from wipe out/patch out to Boretech copper remover and Boretech carbon remover for the throat. It's been working very well for the life of this barrel so far.
Anyone use wipe out?
MPro 7. I go between the two regularly. MPro 7 dissolves carbon so effectively!! I let my brake soak in it for about an hour and the hard carbon brushes off easily with a nylon brush.
Fired rifles come off the range with Hoppe's #9 in the barrel during the ride home (approx. 1 hour). At home, patched out, and reapplied with a nylon brush; soaked another hour, patched out, dry, done.
No attempt to get a totally clean barrel, just two passes and done.
The brush is not there to scrub, but as an applicator. The solvent does all the work. Hoppe's #9 powder solvent is adequate and has sufficient copper removal effect. I do not favor aggressive solvents.
Over Winter/Off Season (Yesterday was 115*F, 'off' enough for me...) the bore is 'anointed' with #9 and refreshed with it every week or so. That's my deep cleaning.
After cleaning, prior to firing, a light coat of oil; I never fire a clean, totally dry barrel. Doing such simply plates the bare bore with jacket material.
The powder coating (graphite) is a dry lube, and needs to get down onto the bore surface ahead of the jacket material; the oil allows that to happen maybe a bit more easily. I experimented at pretreating the bore with a homemade suspension of a little graphite, a little oil, and alcohol; results were inconclusive.
Graphite can accumulate as a carbon ring, and cleaning after each range session helps keep that under better control.
The 28" L-W barrel on my Savage 260 F Open Custom is going on 14 years old. It still shoots (sparingly) as good as new. It has probably two dozen 40+ round 1000yd matches on it, plus load development/confirmation with 3 different bullets.
Greg
No attempt to get a totally clean barrel, just two passes and done.
The brush is not there to scrub, but as an applicator. The solvent does all the work. Hoppe's #9 powder solvent is adequate and has sufficient copper removal effect. I do not favor aggressive solvents.
Over Winter/Off Season (Yesterday was 115*F, 'off' enough for me...) the bore is 'anointed' with #9 and refreshed with it every week or so. That's my deep cleaning.
After cleaning, prior to firing, a light coat of oil; I never fire a clean, totally dry barrel. Doing such simply plates the bare bore with jacket material.
The powder coating (graphite) is a dry lube, and needs to get down onto the bore surface ahead of the jacket material; the oil allows that to happen maybe a bit more easily. I experimented at pretreating the bore with a homemade suspension of a little graphite, a little oil, and alcohol; results were inconclusive.
Graphite can accumulate as a carbon ring, and cleaning after each range session helps keep that under better control.
The 28" L-W barrel on my Savage 260 F Open Custom is going on 14 years old. It still shoots (sparingly) as good as new. It has probably two dozen 40+ round 1000yd matches on it, plus load development/confirmation with 3 different bullets.
Greg
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I wish somebody would borescope my Havak 6.5CM barrel. I literally haven't "cleaned" it since I bought it Nov2018, about 1200 rounds ago, with 1000 of those being my reloads. I am about to open my 3rd 500ct 140gr ELD-M box after work today.
I have ran a boresnake wetted with Fireclean through it maybe 5 times about 400 rounds ago. Accuracy? check. Consistency? check. More time shooting/loading/drinking/playing with my kids? check.
On second thought, I think I'll run the boresnake back through it before I go shoot tonight, match coming up this weekend.
I am not saying this is the right way, it's surely wrong and I'm an idiot. I just wish I really knew what was the undisputed right way.
I have ran a boresnake wetted with Fireclean through it maybe 5 times about 400 rounds ago. Accuracy? check. Consistency? check. More time shooting/loading/drinking/playing with my kids? check.
On second thought, I think I'll run the boresnake back through it before I go shoot tonight, match coming up this weekend.
I am not saying this is the right way, it's surely wrong and I'm an idiot. I just wish I really knew what was the undisputed right way.
This thread makes me wonder how many folks have come to their conclusions without ever scoping a barrel.
I clean usually after every range session, with exception to those that fall before a match (F-Class); I like to go into those with a lighly (~20rd) fouled out bore if possible. Typically the cleaning routine involves patching and brushing with BoreTech C4 followed by Eliminator; every couple hundred rounds hitting it with JB Bore Paste to get the really stuck on carbon out. What I can definitively tell you is that unless you're brushing, you're not getting hard carbon out of the throat (yes, this includes custom cut-rifled barrels).
I also suspect the theory that failure to clean results in faster throat erosion is correct. I don't have tests or data to back it up, but that's been my experience. Lastly, unless you're going absolutely crazy with JB, you're not going to hurt the barrel.
My 2c.
I clean usually after every range session, with exception to those that fall before a match (F-Class); I like to go into those with a lighly (~20rd) fouled out bore if possible. Typically the cleaning routine involves patching and brushing with BoreTech C4 followed by Eliminator; every couple hundred rounds hitting it with JB Bore Paste to get the really stuck on carbon out. What I can definitively tell you is that unless you're brushing, you're not getting hard carbon out of the throat (yes, this includes custom cut-rifled barrels).
I also suspect the theory that failure to clean results in faster throat erosion is correct. I don't have tests or data to back it up, but that's been my experience. Lastly, unless you're going absolutely crazy with JB, you're not going to hurt the barrel.
My 2c.
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I'm glad I heard this first before reading this thread.
theeverydaysniper.podbean.com
The Everyday Sniper Episode 13 Rifle Cleaning & Break In | The Everyday Sniper
The Everyday Sniper Episode 13 Rifle Cleaning & Break In Frank here again, bringing you another episode of the Everyday Sniper. In this episode I talk rifle cleaning and barrel break in. I go through my methods of doing it. Don't forget to visit Sniper's Hide and give Mike a call over at...
Shoot until your gun tells you it needs to be cleaned. Over cleaning is bad, and bore scopes in the hands of non-professionals is the devil.
Just a questions doesn’t it also depend on the caliber. I shoot 6br a very efficient caliber
I clean every 400-500 rounds because I’ve read in so many places overcleaning is the number 1 cause of barrel failure. I would think calibers that have a slower burn rate would need cleaning more because of more residue left in the barrel.
I clean every 400-500 rounds because I’ve read in so many places overcleaning is the number 1 cause of barrel failure. I would think calibers that have a slower burn rate would need cleaning more because of more residue left in the barrel.
Not sure what barrels you use but Bartlein states on there website under cleaning instructions that they recommend to not use brushes - patches only
I've used most of the cut-rifled makers, and several button mfgs.
Bartlein doesn't outright forbid them. They do say they suggest going a size smaller than the bore. In a blog post, Frank says he doesn't use them, but acknowledges folks do, and urges caution as debris can get trapped in the bristles.
Their cleaning regimen seems to conflict with a lot of what's been posted in this thread too (folks are talking bore snakes lol).
https://bartleinbarrels.com/break-in-and-cleaning/
In my own experience (with a borescope) it's been my observation that no chemical can outright remove hard-carbon (I'm not talking about powder residue), and it only becomes harder to remove as time goes on. I don't necessarily think it needs to be cleaned down to bare metal, but I do think it's easier to 'stay on top of' carbon buildup so it doesn't become an impossible job later down the line.
I think the reason brushes get folks worried is because if you use the wrong material, or the wrong techniques, you absolutely can hurt a barrel with one. That said, if you're using a 1-piece coated rod, tight bore guide, bronze/nylon brush, keeping it clean & saturated, and not going across the crown aggressively...I think you're relatively safe. As long as you follow these same techniques, and don't over-use JB (along with realizing it ALWAYS comes out black) I think you can be safe with it is as well. You can feel patches go down the barrel easier as you brush and/or JB vs. just patching alone.
I will say there's an outstanding article over on accurateshooter which covers multiple shooters (and disciplines) and barrel makers; the interesting thing is that their routines and recommendations are all over the board with regards to brushing. Almost none of them however advocate shooting for hundreds of rounds (not that you are advocating such a thing in your above post).
Link to article: https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/barrel-cleaning-debate/
I'm an F-Class guy, so I clean like most of the others there. This board is mostly PRS shooters, so maybe brushing and carbon maintenance isn't as big a deal there; never shot a PRS match, so I don't know.
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I can say when when I first started shooting I used nothing but a bore snake no solevent in 700 Vls 308 that rifle had over 4000 rounds on it and was a solid 1/2 moa rifle. I’m PRS where you can sometimes get away with 3/4 or 1 moa on some stages but my rifle pretty much shoots one hole.I've used most of the cut-rifled makers, and several button mfgs.
Bartlein doesn't outright forbid them. They do say they suggest going a size smaller than the bore. In a blog post, Frank says he doesn't use them, but acknowledges folks do, and urges caution as debris can get trapped in the bristles.
Their cleaning regimen seems to conflict with a lot of what's been posted in this thread too (folks are talking bore snakes lol).
https://bartleinbarrels.com/break-in-and-cleaning/
In my own experience (with a borescope) it's been my observation that no chemical can outright remove hard-carbon (I'm not talking about powder residue), and it only becomes harder to remove as time goes on. I don't necessarily think it needs to be cleaned down to bare metal, but I do think it's easier to 'stay on top of' carbon buildup so it doesn't become an impossible job later down the line.
I think the reason brushes get folks worried is because if you use the wrong material, or the wrong techniques, you absolutely can hurt a barrel with one. That said, if you're using a 1-piece coated rod, tight bore guide, bronze/nylon brush, keeping it clean & saturated, and not going across the crown aggressively...I think you're relatively safe. As long as you follow these same techniques, and don't over-use JB (along with realizing it ALWAYS comes out black) I think you can be safe with it is as well. You can feel patches go down the barrel easier as you brush and/or JB vs. just patching alone.
I will say there's an outstanding article over on accurateshooter which covers multiple shooters (and disciplines) and barrel makers; the interesting thing is that their routines and recommendations are all over the board with regards to brushing. Almost none of them however advocate shooting for hundreds of rounds (not that you are advocating such a thing in your above post).
Link to article: https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/barrel-cleaning-debate/
I'm an F-Class guy, so I clean like most of the others there. This board is mostly PRS shooters, so maybe brushing and carbon maintenance isn't as big a deal there; never shot a PRS match, so I don't know.
Some finishes yes - cerakote no and steel??? Really...have you even ever used it on ANYTHING?
Been using this method for 3 years and my barrel life is amazing...not like you are leaving stuff sit in the barrel for days. If you abided by every label you read, all of California would have been dead from cancer 150 years ago.
I usually clean either after 100-200 rounds or after each match since they usually get shot hard and fast during a match.
