A double action revolver chambered in 45 Colt , loaded with the RCBS 45-270-SAA going 1,000 FPS is good medicine for just about anything in North America. It’s controllable, and can be shot in most guns chambered in 45 Colt.
Sidearms & Scatterguns Hunting carry Sidearm
- Thread starter Rthur
- Start date
I’m in MI, so black bears only. I shoot a RMR’d Glock 21 with KKM barrel and comp with 255gr. hardcast Underwood .45 Super
I know it’s 2 less rounds than the Glock 20, but I’ll take the 55gr more hard cast on each shot. Similar energy to 200gr 10mm. Just my choice here. I’m not saying 10mm wrong by any stretch.
When I go to AK in the future, it’s coming with me in addition to bear spray. I understand the choices I’ve made. I do believe it’s about weighing your compromises.
I know it’s 2 less rounds than the Glock 20, but I’ll take the 55gr more hard cast on each shot. Similar energy to 200gr 10mm. Just my choice here. I’m not saying 10mm wrong by any stretch.
When I go to AK in the future, it’s coming with me in addition to bear spray. I understand the choices I’ve made. I do believe it’s about weighing your compromises.
Very nice. I'm going to be experimenting very soon with a similar setup Glock 21 and KKM to shoot 450 SMC if I can acquire some brass or 45 Super. Either way I'll be loading hot and comparing it with my Glock 20.
The Glock G20 seems to be a popular choice in this thread but how about the G40. It is more to heft around but would help with recoil management and the longer barrel provides more velocity.
So I had a Glock 41 with a KKM threaded barrel and custom steel comp that was tuned to run factory .45 Super with the factory recoil assembly. It was too long for carry in my nylon chest holster in my waders. The Glock 40 is a bit shorter than this set-up was, but still pretty long in my opinion.
That’s where I opted to go to the 20/21 size with a threaded barrel and comp. probably an 1” or so shorter and all the follow up shot benefits of a comp.
It’s compromises, though, as a 6” barrel for full-house 10mm had me considering it, as the added 1.5” barrel for velocity should be fairly significant. Then I looked into the MOS system and decided it was better to pay the money to ATEi to mount a RMR the right way. If I got a G40, I would only run iron sights...
That’s where I opted to go to the 20/21 size with a threaded barrel and comp. probably an 1” or so shorter and all the follow up shot benefits of a comp.
It’s compromises, though, as a 6” barrel for full-house 10mm had me considering it, as the added 1.5” barrel for velocity should be fairly significant. Then I looked into the MOS system and decided it was better to pay the money to ATEi to mount a RMR the right way. If I got a G40, I would only run iron sights...
I have never had a Glock fail me after thousands of shots and they seem to perform better dirty
In dangerous woods I have a chest rig that I carry a 357 smith and Wesson 686 plus (7 shot). I can shoot it fast and accurate, which I’m not as good at with any caliber stronger than that (I know...I’m a wimp).
I have a Glock. Have had quite a few handguns over the years. I am not a Glock Hater. Nor am I a fan boy, for any of these things.
Hell, all the holes in the ceiling at the local range are from me trying to shoot a Glock.
I have spent time in bear country, un armed, motorcycling with only a bed roll. Here I would prefer a trip wire hooked up to pepper spray canisters.
I do not poo poo you or your choices in a handgun. I do know an avid hunter and outfitter with large pelts . His recommendation is 375 HH. I do not have one of these. I do have a Nframe that I would take anywhere I felt it needed. Over any other handgun. That was my input because that is what I have to contribute, not defend.
Hell, all the holes in the ceiling at the local range are from me trying to shoot a Glock.
I have spent time in bear country, un armed, motorcycling with only a bed roll. Here I would prefer a trip wire hooked up to pepper spray canisters.
I do not poo poo you or your choices in a handgun. I do know an avid hunter and outfitter with large pelts . His recommendation is 375 HH. I do not have one of these. I do have a Nframe that I would take anywhere I felt it needed. Over any other handgun. That was my input because that is what I have to contribute, not defend.
I've been carrying a S&W 629 4" 44mag for about 35 years. My own hard cast loads or Buffalo Bore ammo. I use a Diamond D Guides Choice chest rig with an ammo strip. ( a speed loader pouch is available) that gives a fast presentation. I shoot the Smith well and it is quick. I have a 3", 6" and 8 3/8" and several Ruger Super Blackhawks, the 4" S&W just works best for me.
I have tried the 454's and 460's, just don't shoot them as well.....tried in multiple trips to the range. Fun to shoot and are good hunting guns.
Pick something you can shoot easily and is comfortable to carry. As with anything you pick....practice, practice, practice.
Several guides I know prefer a short 12ga, one of the new short other "not SBR" shotguns in a scabbard might be something to consider if you may be going where you are considered a meal by the local species.
I have tried the 454's and 460's, just don't shoot them as well.....tried in multiple trips to the range. Fun to shoot and are good hunting guns.
Pick something you can shoot easily and is comfortable to carry. As with anything you pick....practice, practice, practice.
Several guides I know prefer a short 12ga, one of the new short other "not SBR" shotguns in a scabbard might be something to consider if you may be going where you are considered a meal by the local species.
WOT.......
Ten shots huh? Was the elk reachifor his gun? Hope it’s not in Wyoming, shooting elk with a .40 will get you visits with our sometimes friendly park rangers...
In Utah, the elk ended up being dead, it was hooked on a fallen log, looked like it was just standing there
Not quite together yet but I've got a 6" 10mm conversion barrel for a Glock 21 and a Lone Wolf "tactical" length slide.
The conversion barrel has more meat around the chamber and bore and the extended slide should weigh as much as a Glock 20 slide so it should be able to handle hot loads with a bit of extra barrel for more velocity and probably won't even need an extra power recoil spring.
I don't think I have seen anything that beats the combination of power size and cost.
If I was in Alaska, Africa or worried about Grizzly, I would probably choose my Magnum Research BFR in .475 Linebaugh but it is bigger, heavier, only holds 6 rounds and has the reloading issues of a single action revolver.
The conversion barrel has more meat around the chamber and bore and the extended slide should weigh as much as a Glock 20 slide so it should be able to handle hot loads with a bit of extra barrel for more velocity and probably won't even need an extra power recoil spring.
I don't think I have seen anything that beats the combination of power size and cost.
If I was in Alaska, Africa or worried about Grizzly, I would probably choose my Magnum Research BFR in .475 Linebaugh but it is bigger, heavier, only holds 6 rounds and has the reloading issues of a single action revolver.
I'd suggest that what you actually need is a Double Action/Single Action revolver instead. Because when some animal wants to eat you for dinner and you may or may not have much time, may or may not be able to move properly & may or may not be injured already, you probably want something that gives you the option of just squeeze to go off.
Also I might recommend you sticking with something like .454 or .44 Magnum with hot loads because then you can control it with one hand for follow up shots if you have to. (unless of course you have a larger than normal frame).
The problem with the really big revolvers is that they require a really good grip to shoot and not want to rip your hand off, and follow up shots tend to be a bit slow (or fully automatic sometimes).
Yes, double action would be better, I just don't have one.
In terms of recoil, .475 Linebaugh is probably not as bad as a .454 Casull. It usually has lower muzzle velocity but heavier bullets. People say it has more push and less snap than .454, I've shot mine one handed and there is a lot of muzzle rise either way but I don't think it's going to hurt the follow up shot compared to something like .454 unless the ammo is very very hot.
In terms of recoil, .475 Linebaugh is probably not as bad as a .454 Casull. It usually has lower muzzle velocity but heavier bullets. People say it has more push and less snap than .454, I've shot mine one handed and there is a lot of muzzle rise either way but I don't think it's going to hurt the follow up shot compared to something like .454 unless the ammo is very very hot.
Glock 20/21 in 10mm/45 Super with hardcast bullets. Can't get much faster follow up shots than that.
If I'm staring at a 1500 lb Kodiak 10 yards away my wish list of firearms to have goes something like this
1. Marlin 1895 Trapper 16.5" barrel loaded with 405 gr Grizzly punch bullets and open sights
2. Remington 870 loaded with Dixie 870 gr dangerous game slugs
3. Glock 20/21 with hardcast ammo
Given the fact that I may have a total of 3 seconds from time of encounter to having a very bad day I want the one that I can put the most rounds accurately on target and still have sufficient penetration.
Bolt action rifles and single action handguns just don't get it done for me.
If I'm staring at a 1500 lb Kodiak 10 yards away my wish list of firearms to have goes something like this
1. Marlin 1895 Trapper 16.5" barrel loaded with 405 gr Grizzly punch bullets and open sights
2. Remington 870 loaded with Dixie 870 gr dangerous game slugs
3. Glock 20/21 with hardcast ammo
Given the fact that I may have a total of 3 seconds from time of encounter to having a very bad day I want the one that I can put the most rounds accurately on target and still have sufficient penetration.
Bolt action rifles and single action handguns just don't get it done for me.
Takes one good well placed powerful round to turn thst shit off.
In three seconds, I think I could get off two aimed shots with my .475.
With decent placement either of them could get the job done.
As good as a hot 10mm is, I'm not sure I would trade five of them for two .475s on a 1,500 lb bear.
Once I'm being mauled, I think the capacity of the Glock would be nice.
I don't think there really is a right answer.
With decent placement either of them could get the job done.
As good as a hot 10mm is, I'm not sure I would trade five of them for two .475s on a 1,500 lb bear.
Once I'm being mauled, I think the capacity of the Glock would be nice.
I don't think there really is a right answer.
Oops, I forgot about that.
Part of the marketing was a transfer bar safety so you don't have to load only 4.
Those bfr’s are mighty fine. A big step up from a blackhawk in quality and about 90% what a freedom arms is....with a few things i like even better than freedom arms for about 1/3rd the price. I am shocked i dont see more of them out there. I had a 44 mag bfr, but i wanted the new grip style. Traded mine, havent bought the new grip style yet, maybe i wont. I have 2 44 specials that get most my time these days.
i do wish M.R. would make a 41 magnum in the bfr, i would definately buy one of those.
i do wish M.R. would make a 41 magnum in the bfr, i would definately buy one of those.
G19 suits me fine here in Texas, previous 9mm glocks have saved my skin from angry hogs a few times, so I figure this will do the trick. A g40 may be in my holster this next fall, but I know for sure a large caliber revolver is out of my realistic needs.
just picked up a glock 40mos 10mm, and some underwood ammo
was always on the fence between revolver and a semi like this thread shows
when i really got down to assessing my abilities i wanted more capacity and shoot-ability
my 357 python is a laser but having 4 more rounds (my shit state limit to 10 rds), is the deal breaker
as well as effortless reloads in comparison
when a big bear does the wack-a-mole pop up and down:
heads up at 200 yards ..down..pops up at 120...down..pops up at 30 yards...down
id rather not try and reload a wheel gun with wet cold gloved hands if taking pot shots during that time
was always on the fence between revolver and a semi like this thread shows
when i really got down to assessing my abilities i wanted more capacity and shoot-ability
my 357 python is a laser but having 4 more rounds (my shit state limit to 10 rds), is the deal breaker
as well as effortless reloads in comparison
when a big bear does the wack-a-mole pop up and down:
heads up at 200 yards ..down..pops up at 120...down..pops up at 30 yards...down
id rather not try and reload a wheel gun with wet cold gloved hands if taking pot shots during that time
I have been shooting the Hornady Custom .475 ammo, a lot cheaper than the stuff he was shooting and less power/recoil.
It's not that bad and I put a Pachmayr grip on mine that gives me good control.
With the big heavy bullets, they don't need to go especially fast to get the job done and if I had three seconds as suggested above, I know I could get off two aimed shots, maybe three if I hurry.
It's not quite the hand cannon as a .500 S&W but a step up from .44 Magnum.
It does kick pretty hard but with the grip I have and less powerful ammo, it doesn't twist in my hand or wrist nearly as much as that video shows.
The alternative of a 10mm Glock with the hottest loads it will take is still going to be a handful with plenty of muzzle rise too.
Not going to dispute anything you said except one thing. I load the 10mm to loads that shouldn't be loaded with 800x and only new Starline brass and a KKM barrel with requested maximum chamber support. We are talking 900 ft lbs with a 200 gr XTP. This is my woods loads because I only need to worry about black bear. Saying that, I am totally confident I could unholster and get off 7-8 shots all on target within 3 seconds. I practice this all the time. To your average Joe the recoil may seem like a lot but it's worlds apart from anything in that video and can be easily controlled with enough training. That's what all this boils down to is training. The Glock 20 may not be the most powerful option but you just can't dispute the mechanical advantage it offers and a 230 gr hardcast will penetrate an awful long way.
The bruins in the woods there actually get bigger than their Adirondack neighbors. 600 lbs plus from some pics I've seen.
There is documented evidence of a heavy load .475 Linebaugh penetrating 48" on a skull shot of a rampaging bull elephant, one shot kill.
The stuff I shoot wouldn't do that but it shows that it can be loaded to kill anything. As good as 10mm is, I don't think you would make that claim.
That's the trade off.
When the topic is 1,500 lb bears, there is a debate to be had and if I could line up one shot, I would rather have the one that I know can end the story right now. But that's just me.
The stuff I shoot wouldn't do that but it shows that it can be loaded to kill anything. As good as 10mm is, I don't think you would make that claim.
That's the trade off.
When the topic is 1,500 lb bears, there is a debate to be had and if I could line up one shot, I would rather have the one that I know can end the story right now. But that's just me.
2 things. While it may not travel 48", I do believe a 230 hard cast would penetrate an elephant skull but would be happy to come up with some sort of test to try and also your assuming that your one shot is going to hit its mark perfectly. That's an awful lot to stake on 1 shot.
Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of bIg bore revolvers, I just feel like they are better suited to a true hunting application where you are the one doing the hunting and actually have time to place your shot.
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Yeah, it's two shots that can get it done or eight that might.
If I was in an area where bear contact was inevitable, I would probably look for a better option like a compensated Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger with some hot hand loads. That would probably give me four shots that can get it done and much quicker reloads.
In North America, unless I'm worried about the bigger bears or moose, 10mm would be plenty.
If I was in an area where bear contact was inevitable, I would probably look for a better option like a compensated Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger with some hot hand loads. That would probably give me four shots that can get it done and much quicker reloads.
In North America, unless I'm worried about the bigger bears or moose, 10mm would be plenty.
i’ve had my fair share of actual bear encounters, not internet bears. and in every case, you have time to see the situation coming....again, situational awareness is key.
all this shit is great and good, but the likelyhood is, you are more likely to run into a two legged predator long before you have an issue with any bear. i’m a guy that edc is a 357 mixed with hollow points and hard cast. woods roaming, it’s a 44 special with either hollow points or cast. i’ve never felt i was lacking firepower or ability.
to each, their own. whatever works for ya.
all this shit is great and good, but the likelyhood is, you are more likely to run into a two legged predator long before you have an issue with any bear. i’m a guy that edc is a 357 mixed with hollow points and hard cast. woods roaming, it’s a 44 special with either hollow points or cast. i’ve never felt i was lacking firepower or ability.
to each, their own. whatever works for ya.
I shat an antelope with a 165 and 180 grain winchester LE - both entered and exited
what load in the .40 would not break the hide?
i saw that video of that guy shooting the moose a few years back. it pissed me off then, it pisses me off now.
fucking crowding the moose, the moose backs off, and his solution is to crowd it some more. if i were the law up there, that guy would be in some serious fucking shit.
disclaimer....this is a shortened video of the one i saw. in the other video, you see just how much he harasses the moose until it tries to fend him off. i hope he was prosecuted. and most snow mobilers are complete shitstains.
fucking crowding the moose, the moose backs off, and his solution is to crowd it some more. if i were the law up there, that guy would be in some serious fucking shit.
disclaimer....this is a shortened video of the one i saw. in the other video, you see just how much he harasses the moose until it tries to fend him off. i hope he was prosecuted. and most snow mobilers are complete shitstains.
The Greenland sled patrols carry Glock 20s for polar bears. I'd say that right there would be good enough data for me.
It looks like my 10mm is going to be going together pretty soon due to taxes so I will be playing both sides of the fence in a few weeks.
Glock 20?
M
My brother was driving up with his already sketchy wife...saw a good size one walked across the road in front of bellaire ski slope.
Told her it was a deer, she was good for a day then it slipped.
She was pissed
My brother was driving up with his already sketchy wife...saw a good size one walked across the road in front of bellaire ski slope.
Told her it was a deer, she was good for a day then it slipped.
She was pissed
Oops, wrong quote above. I have a Lone Wolf 21T "tactical length" slide and a Storm Lake 6" 10mm conversion barrel.
I think it should be about the strongest Glock 10mm possible because the conversion barrel has more meat to it. The extra length and some hot loads should pretty much max out the potential of the Glock platform.
Some might argue that .460 Rowland is more powerful but 10mm has mag capacity on it's side.
I think it should be about the strongest Glock 10mm possible because the conversion barrel has more meat to it. The extra length and some hot loads should pretty much max out the potential of the Glock platform.
Some might argue that .460 Rowland is more powerful but 10mm has mag capacity on it's side.
Hahaha! That would never work with my better half. In fact she would never set foot in the mountains if I didn't carry.
The extra slide mass will do you some good but I could never convince myself to use any other slide other than a Glock for reliability concerns. The meat to the barrel isn't necessarily the weak link, it's the web area of the 10mm case that can be an issue. It will give out under high pressure if it's not supported but it sounds like you have that covered with the Storm Lake barrel anyway. I would never run my loads in a factory barrel.
I am just starting a 45 Super/450 SMC project on a Gen 3 Glock 21. 460 Rowland is more powerful than the 10mm but what a lot of people are unaware of is that new 45 Super Starline brass is exactly the same as Starline 460 Rowland just trimmed down about .060. The Super brass is rated the same as the Rowland for pressure. Advantage Super because the Rowland has to be loaded to the same overall length as the 45 ACP/Super so you are seating bullets deeper and losing case capacity. 450 SMC is the same as Super dimensionally accept it takes a small rifle primer which in theory may make it slightly stronger. I'm hoping Double Tap will sell me some brass.
My disadvantage is the G21 slide weight is a little less than a G20 and I don't want to install a compensator. Will throw in the usual Wolff stainless guide rod and 24lb recoil spring, along with 20% extra power mag springs and have KKM send me a barrel. Going to experiment with a 250 gr XTP and see what I get. Think that makes me a perfect Black Bear load in a small package.
This will be my first aftermarket Glock slide but I have seen people make them work and unless the extractor slot isn't placed right, I don't think there is much that would make it a paperweight.
If it doesn't run 100% right away, I'll tinker with it until it does.
If it doesn't run 100% right away, I'll tinker with it until it does.
Other than running a comp there isn't anything more I can do other than the things I mentioned. I didn't say I was going to load to Rowland levels, only that Super brass can safely achieve it. I'm just going to slowly work up a load and watch pressure signs. I feel like 1250 fps with a 250 XTP is manageable.
Counter attack the bear and kill it with your wiener.
