I F'n despise Leofoto and other Chinese knockoff specialists

LeftyJason

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    Just substitute the phrase, “I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA-made tripod right now, so I bought a Chinese tripod clone,”

    with the phrase

    “I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA-made RIFLE right now, so I bought a Chinese RIFLE clone,” and some interesting things might start happening in your brain.

    No Tikka jokes allowed lol.
    Are AI jokes allowed?
     

    Alpine 338

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    I understand the cost perspective for many when choosing product X over product Y based on cost, but how much more clear does it need to be that China is not a friend of the good ol USA, or any of it's close Allies. Remember when China held our Navy (and one Air Force) EP-3 Aircrew hostage after the midair collision and forcing down of the aircraft in the South China Sea? Do you think that was a one-off incident? They continue to harass our military aircraft and ships operating in/over international waters.

    If another container ship never departed China destined for North America again, I would be more than pleasantly happy.

    Don't buy crap from our enemy!
     
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    Raffy

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    The OP gives the same reasons I will not buy any knock off press that knocked off the Forster Coax. The Chinese knock offs are ridiculous. Buy american made whenever possible, but when not, avoid China.
     

    srt-4_uk

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    I understand the cost perspective for many when choosing product X over product Y based on cost, but how much more clear does it need to be that China is not a friend of the good ol USA, or any of it's close Allies. Remember when China held our Navy (and one Air Force) EP-3 Aircrew hostage after the midair collision and forcing down of the aircraft in the South China Sea? Do you think that was a one-off incident? They continue to harass our military aircraft and ships operating in/over international waters.

    If another container ship never departed China destined for North America again, I would be more than pleasantly happy.

    Don't buy crap from our enemy!
    Isnt there a thread right now about buying millions of primers from Russia? Or is this reasoning only for Chinese goods? You never really see people all up in arms when they talk about buying AKs by the crate, Bakelite magazines, Russian illuminators, or cheap 7.62 x 39
     

    Raffy

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    I find it difficult to buy something from someone who stole from someone else. That is where I fundamentally oppose a purchase. China is probably the worst offender in the world. Hence my feelings.
     
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    carbonbased

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    Or FN, or Tikka, or SAKO, or Winchester, or Browning, or Beretta, or, or, or...
    Shhhhh, fellas, the point/joke would not be as not as funny/sharp if I wrote, “I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA/UK/French/Czech/Canadian/[insert first world country here] tripod right now, so I bought a Chinese tripod clone,”

    You dig? I’m sure you understand the larger point.
     

    Downtown

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    I believe that is because at one time we were at war (cold) with the USSR. The two countries actively competed for the number one spot in the world. Now, not so much. Russia isn't really an allie, but not as much of a competitor anymore. China, without a doubt, is. Also, a lot of anger over the origins of this damn pandemic. As a global catastrophe, it makes Chernobyl look insignificant. I would be willing to buy a product made in Russia. Also Vietnam, Cambodia, Germany, Japan, Albania, most places. I will go out of my way to not buy from China.
     

    srt-4_uk

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    Speaking to Alpine's post specifically. From military aspect, Russia is a peer/near peer. Is not an ally of the good ol USA. Has shot down and held american pilots. Routinely harassas our aircraft over international waters.
    But as long as I can get primers, AK mags, and full power lasers, IDGAF. I'm not saying buy all the Chinese things, but if you are going to make up a reason to boycott, at least be consistent.

    Stealing IP is a very valid reason not to buy from certain Chinese companies. Knowing money goes to the State is a very valid reason not to buy from Chinese companies.
     

    carbonbased

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    Isnt there a thread right now about buying millions of primers from Russia? Or is this reasoning only for Chinese goods? You never really see people all up in arms when they talk about buying AKs by the crate, Bakelite magazines, Russian illuminators, or cheap 7.62 x 39
    Here’s how I think about it:
    1. I buy US/First World made goods, because
    2. I want to support a certain way of life or an ally, but I
    3. Don’t be a crazy person about it, and always
    4. Support the inventor of the product (use your empathy) unless it conflicts with above points
    For example, would I buy an AI copy made in Russia/China/North Korea? No.

    Would I buy a new Russian-made & Russian -designed rifle? Right now, no. Putin is actively assaulting the West, in a soft cold-war, plausible-deniability style. And I don’t need a rifle, and if I did, there are other options. If tensions cool off, and Putin is gone? Ok.

    Would I buy Russian surplus ammo? No, it sucks, haha. What what if it was the only supply, and I was desperately low? Ok, but
    holding my nose (see, don’t be crazy, above).

    Would I buy a used AK from my local gun store? Sure.

    Would I buy a new Chinese car that wasn't a clone of another brand’s car? No, because China is opposed to the US.

    Would I buy a First World car/phone that’s sourced from all over the world, including China? Yes. Don’t have much choice, do I? (Don’t be crazy).

    Would I buy a Canadian car? Wait, Canada makes cars?
     

    theLBC

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    ...with the exception of my first p226 bought in 1992, all my guns are made here in the usa, including my fn scar 20s.
     

    aard3

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    I’m curious about the groups thoughts on the new Vortex tripods and Ballheads... they are made in China and seem to be very similar to RRS / Leofoto
     

    TxWelder35

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    I choose to buy high quality products. If I’m buying something I expect to pass down to
    my kids, or use for long period of time, or work it hard, I’m not looking for the cheap product. Sometimes it’s made in the USA, sometimes it’s not. Rarely if ever is it made in any Asian country besides Japan. I’m not going to buy a knock off for anything fitting the description above.

    I’ve been wanting a tripod for a good long while now but I’m not getting one until I put enough aside for a high quality product. Right now that most likely going to be the new Rocky Mountain Tactical Supports tripod with an RRS Anvil 30 on top. I could have bought the Chinese knock off long ago, but I owe to myself, and my fellow American to not willing give away my money to foreign governments who ripped off American citizens and stole their designs.

    If I can’t afford the High quality version of a product I save and wait until I can. The solution is not to buy the knock off from China.

    This is where people are starting to go wrong, they want the instant gratification of having something instead of saving and buying the one that will last you your whole life and be the top
    Of the line.

    Everything I buy that I view as a long term use item I plan on passing down to my kids. They aren’t getting a bunch of Chinese shit. When my son gets daddies gun collection it’s not going to be a handful of $300 rifles with $50 scopes on them. When he gets all my tools it’s going to be whole boxes full of snap on or other high quality American or European tools.
     

    hlee

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    Right now that most likely going to be the new Rocky Mountain Tactical Supports tripod with an RRS Anvil 30 on top. I could have bought the Chinese knock off long ago, but I owe to myself, and my fellow American to not willing give away my money to foreign governments who ripped off American citizens and stole their designs.
    Made in the USA? I ask because most companies crow about that pretty loudly, however, I can’t find any reference to the country of origin of their products on their site...
     

    Tokay444

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    Looks like they have at least one, “state of the art” Haas on their website.
     

    aard3

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    There are only so many ways you can make 3 sticks that meet in the middle...
    Agreed, but take a look at the new vortex tripod and ball head... the similarity in the industrial design is... well... uncanny
    1610407586152.jpeg
    1610407859396.jpeg
     
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    BANG...ping

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    Biden will tax our ammo to death. Biden will also require FFL checks for ammo. Lead bullets will be outlawed for environmental reasons. Factory 6.5 CM ammo will be in every store and you will be able to buy all you want for $75 a box. So after you drop $750 on ammo for your 2 day match, a
    $1500 RRS tripod will seem frivolous if not irrelevant.
     

    copperdog

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    There's a reason why Nike doesn't sell anything on Amazon. Amazon wouldn't do anything to get rid of the counterfeit Nike products, and Nike didn't feel like competing against all the knock-offs on there and pulled the plug.
    I wouldn’t own anything Nike produces.
     
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    Mr.BR

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    Agreed, but take a look at the new vortex tripod and ball head... the similarity in the industrial design is... well... uncanny

    Exactly , much of Vortex lineup is chicom made as are many of other optics brands . In the end of the day , its the customer that is driving the products.

    As for RRS , their pricing is ridiculously over the top and now everyone pretending like Chicoms don't make just about every tripod and photo accessory in the world ,98+% of all the carbon fiber tubing for tripods etc. There is no real reason for the Chicom clone of RRS to perform significantly worse than RRS .

    Manufacturers making 700$ bipods, 500$ scope mounts,300$ muzzle brakes,1200$ suppresors or 1500$ tripods should not wonder that folks are looking at better bang for the buck, as they are not it.
    As for IP particularly Patent law these were outdated 100y ago and are outdated today, killing innovation then and now.

    One interesting example of patents and market are 3d printers that still wouldn't exist for every man if Stratasys patent on FDM did not run out in 2009 , then a bunch of folks kicked of open-source RepRap movement and every 'affordable' 3d printer you can buy since has been built of that , you can view it as folks using Stratasys inventions or Stratasys blocking everyone from making own development for 20years which is the reality of the impact a FDM patent had on the industry.. As more patents on FDM run out these days 3d prnter tech you can afford is really exploding.
    And like every other industry bunch of these patents are akin to rounded corners on I-phone, shooting industry is full of patents on similar things. In some industries, these things are getting abused beyond any reason and are costing you lots of money every day(pharma industry)
     
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    goneballistic

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    Agree, totally.

    Especially directly ripping off proprietary designs and just stealing them.

    China is the greatest threat to the us on the planet. This is one of many reasons
     

    theLBC

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    Exactly , much of Vortex lineup is chicom made as are many of other optics brands . In the end of the day , its the customer that is driving the products.

    As for RRS , their pricing is ridiculously over the top and now everyone pretending like Chicoms don't make just about every tripod and photo accessory in the world ,98+% of all the carbon fiber tubing for tripods etc. There is no real reason for the Chicom clone of RRS to perform significantly worse than RRS .

    Manufacturers making 700$ bipods, 500$ scope mounts,300$ muzzle brakes,1200$ suppresors or 1500$ tripods should not wonder that folks are looking at better bang for the buck, as they are not it.
    As for IP particularly Patent law these were outdated 100y ago and are outdated today, killing innovation then and now.

    One interesting example of patents and market are 3d printers that still wouldn't exist for every man if Stratasys patent on FDM did not run out in 2009 , then a bunch of folks kicked of open-source RepRap movement and every 'affordable' 3d printer you can buy since has been built of that , you can view it as folks using Stratasys inventions or Stratasys blocking everyone from making own development for 20years which is the reality of the impact a FDM patent had on the industry.. As more patents on FDM run out these days 3d prnter tech you can afford is really exploding.
    And like every other industry bunch of these patents are akin to rounded corners on I-phone, shooting industry is full of patents on similar things. In some industries, these things are getting abused beyond any reason and are costing you lots of money every day(pharma industry)
    so it could not possibly be that RRS and other american companies charge more because the americans that work for them are paid a decent wage and not 20 yuan/hr.
     

    Krob95

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    I only bought my RRS tripods to flex on the poors. It being made in America is an added bonus 🇺🇸

    That being said. It’s a shame other companies feel the need to rip off others to make a quick buck. But as long as people patronize them, they will continue to do it.



    4C686A29-A413-4318-8FBB-2EAB3DC8DF57.png
     

    theLBC

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    I only bought my RRS tripods to flex on the poors. It being made in America is an added bonus 🇺🇸

    That being said. It’s a shame other companies feel the need to rip off others to make a quick buck. But as long as people patronize them, they will continue to do it.
    i am a poor, and i didn't buy a chinama tripod, bipod, scope, rifle or case.
    pretty sure my rangefinder was made is china, but i was not thinking about it back then.
     

    iceng

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    I get that people get loyal to brands, and other things. Ford VS chev for example. Who came out with anti lock brakes first, or power steering, etc. Does it matter ? Who copied who ?

    What about the bolt action rifle. All after market clones are copying Remington. Who is copying Mauser. Who is copying.... Etc.

    When it comes to bipods, and tripods, yes I agree emotions are high. The only real thing I'm reading here is "anti commie junk that's imported". Are we gonna rag on AI rifles, or H&K, or even Glock ? What about Aussie made products ?
     

    Krob95

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    why would we rag on AI, HK, Glock, swaro, etc. They’re not made in commie shitholes where products go to be outsourced for pennies on the dollar in order to maximize profit margins.
     

    carbonbased

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    so it could not possibly be that RRS and other american companies charge more because the americans that work for them are paid a decent wage and not 20 yuan/hr.
    Totally agree.

    Many people that claim to be free market capitalists and hate “socialism” etc etc etc are the same that complain when capitalism works (prices find an equilibrium at where enough people buy the product at a certain price to support the manufacturer).

    I also have to laugh when they don’t see a problem with illegal immigration. “Who will pick our fruit?” they say with a sad face. “You must not believe in capitalism,” I retort. “Raise wages until Americans pick the crops, and price the product accordingly”.

    I mean, RRS tripods aren’t medical goods or water, where price gouging has real consequences (not saying RRS is price gouging!). In those cases, clamp down hard on those bastards. No one would enjoy actual unconstraited capitalism…you wind up with a world Conan the Barbarian inhabits, and who kicks your ass and takes your daughters (wife too ugly).
     

    Tokay444

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    Accu-Tac keeps posting a chicom knock off of a J Allen chassis, and I keep calling them out on it to the tune of, “must not know what it’s like to have your products stolen and sold to your customers at fraction of the cost.”
     

    theLBC

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    Accu-Tac keeps posting a chicom knock off of a J Allen chassis, and I keep calling them out on it to the tune of, “must not know what it’s like to have your products stolen and sold to your customers at fraction of the cost.”
    i didn't know that. i thought they made everything they sold in california, about about an hour north of me.
    i suppose that might be considered chicom.
     
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    Tokay444

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    i didn't know that. i thought they made everything they sold in california, about about an hour north of me.
    i suppose that might be considered chicom.
    The stuff they make likely is, but they keep posting photos of one of their bipods on someone’s Archangel POS J Allen knock off.
     

    LeftyJason

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    I get that people get loyal to brands, and other things. Ford VS chev for example. Who came out with anti lock brakes first, or power steering, etc. Does it matter ? Who copied who ?

    What about the bolt action rifle. All after market clones are copying Remington. Who is copying Mauser. Who is copying.... Etc.

    When it comes to bipods, and tripods, yes I agree emotions are high. The only real thing I'm reading here is "anti commie junk that's imported". Are we gonna rag on AI rifles, or H&K, or even Glock ? What about Aussie made products ?
    Mausingfield comes to mind. Footprint is 700 for aftermarket compatability. I remember seeing a company coming out with an aftermarket rifle based on a Tikka as well (ultimatum defacto).

    Do we rag on Hk? Yes. Mostly because of German laws and that we can't get the real versions and haven't been nice to civilian ownership.
    Glock? Yes. Personally I think they're ugly. Lots don't like.
    AI? You left handed? Want a 223 bolt? They take forever getting stuff made.

    What we aren't ragging on those companies for is making cheap inferior copies of other companies products. Aftermarket is higher quality than original.
     
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    CrabsandFootball

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    I understand the cost perspective for many when choosing product X over product Y based on cost, but how much more clear does it need to be that China is not a friend of the good ol USA, or any of it's close Allies. Remember when China held our Navy (and one Air Force) EP-3 Aircrew hostage after the midair collision and forcing down of the aircraft in the South China Sea? Do you think that was a one-off incident? They continue to harass our military aircraft and ships operating in/over international waters.

    If another container ship never departed China destined for North America again, I would be more than pleasantly happy.

    Don't buy crap from our enemy!
    That incident helped let china catchup 20 years of enlit and sigint tech. Ep3 were flying SCIFS with the most cutting edge tech we have.

    The commander should have never landed, they should have had the aircrew bail with their chutes andscuttled into the ocean to protect the tech. Fucking pussies.
     
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    CrabsandFootball

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    Totally agree.

    Many people that claim to be free market capitalists and hate “socialism” etc etc etc are the same that complain when capitalism works (prices find an equilibrium at where enough people buy the product at a certain price to support the manufacturer).

    I also have to laugh when they don’t see a problem with illegal immigration. “Who will pick our fruit?” they say with a sad face. “You must not believe in capitalism,” I retort. “Raise wages until Americans pick the crops, and price the product accordingly”.

    I mean, RRS tripods aren’t medical goods or water, where price gouging has real consequences (not saying RRS is price gouging!). In those cases, clamp down hard on those bastards. No one would enjoy actual unconstraited capitalism…you wind up with a world Conan the Barbarian inhabits, and who kicks your ass and takes your daughters (wife too ugly).
    Price gouging does not exist.

    Its a term for those who do not understand economics.
     

    Jim Out

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    Trademarks are the ticket to enforcement. Easy to see and understand with big "per use" penalty. Even Amazon and Ebay will honor trademarks.....
    You have got to be kidding me...... 😅😂🤣😆😄😂🤣:ROFLMAO:


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    Frank Pee

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    Ironic because the original owner of RRS blatantly copied Kirk Industries products but surprisingly also made them with higher quality and slightly better detail

    I buy from RRS because liberal art photographers found out the owners were conservatives who donated to traditional marriage advocacy in California. They organized a boycott but RRS stood firm and resisted those MFers.

    RRS moved to Utah last year.
     

    iceng

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    Mausingfield comes to mind. Footprint is 700 for aftermarket compatability. I remember seeing a company coming out with an aftermarket rifle based on a Tikka as well (ultimatum defacto).

    Do we rag on Hk? Yes. Mostly because of German laws and that we can't get the real versions and haven't been nice to civilian ownership.
    Glock? Yes. Personally I think they're ugly. Lots don't like.
    AI? You left handed? Want a 223 bolt? They take forever getting stuff made.

    What we aren't ragging on those companies for is making cheap inferior copies of other companies products. Aftermarket is higher quality than original.
    So it's more about "stop copying our gear and invent your own stuff", specifically at China ? Hey, I'm on board. We have it WAY worse in Aussieland, we stopped producing stuff years ago and sent it all off shore. Weirdly enough, it was little johnny howard, the same dropkick to introduces the gun steal.

    We have been trying for years to innovate and make in Aus, and it's hard.
     

    CrabsandFootball

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    No toilet paper for you!
    You do not have a right to toilet paper the same as you do not have a right to any other product or service.

    Nor does the government have the right to force someone to produce or to sell a product or service.

    That would be communism.
     
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    carbonbased

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    You do not have a right to toilet paper the same as you do not have a right to any other product or service.

    Nor does the government have the right to force someone to produce or to sell a product or service.

    That would be communism.
    What a compassionate fellow.
     

    carbonbased

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    C'mon man.

    Look at that old lady down the street. She's all alone. She can't drive anymore.

    She can't pay her water bill.

    CrabsandFootball: "She deserves to die a smelly death. No toilet action for her! No clothes washing either! No showers! Cooking? Ha! Let her pay a delivery service! (forgot she doesn't have any money)"

    Lighten up, Francis.

    We're all in this together, and no one gets out alive.