I see an SVD or possibly PSL in my future.

[VargmatII]

So I took a chance and applied for a permit on a Norinco EM-351 which by no means is a regular sight on a Swedish gun range.
And much to my suprise, it was accepted. But I managed to miss out on the last rifle the Swedish dealer could get a hold of. This led me on a chase where I found a collector with a PSL.

Personally, I still hope to get hold of a Norinco SVD, as it seems a lot nicer and the short stroke piston system is sleeker and better.
But, Im not about to miss out on a rifle like this and will get the PSL if it comes to that.

Reloading supplies have been ordered.

What are your experiences and thoughts on the two rifles?
I know that the PSL benefits from an adjustable gas piston and would probably get one for it.
I might also suppress either rifle, thoughts on that?

What do you gentlemen say?

 

[anticlimacus]

I'd say get a VEPR instead of a PSL

 

[VargmatII]

I'd say get a VEPR instead of a PSL

Why?

Probably not possible, but what makes them better?

 

[anticlimacus]

Generally they're going to be more reliable, confidently feed more ammo you throw at them, thicker RPK receiver and barrel, so way less barrel whip and increased accuracy. Molot makes great stuff, if you can get them. PSL craftsmanship just doesn't hold a candle. That being said, the PSL does have more of a history in warfare. But Molot as a factory has a much larger one, even if you're getting a sporter/consumer model with a VEPR. Also there's very nice furniture options for VEPRs that more scratch that SVD itch, imo.

 

[VargmatII]

Generally they're going to be more reliable, confidently feed more ammo you throw at them, thicker RPK receiver and barrel, so way less barrel whip and increased accuracy. Molot makes great stuff, if you can get them. PSL craftsmanship just doesn't hold a candle. That being said, the PSL does have more of a history in warfare. But Molot as a factory has a much larger one, even if you're getting a sporter/consumer model with a VEPR. Also there's very nice furniture options for VEPRs that more scratch that SVD itch, imo.

I dont think that its possible to get one here. The PSL is possible from two sources and maybe the Zastava m91 but I still hope to get a Norinco SVD.Im wating on the reply from the dealer.

 

[towerofpower93]

SVD everyday of the week. The PSL is a very distant I don't know what place behind the SVD, NDM, M77, Saiga/Vepr, etc.

ETA: while the Saiga/Vepr and Zastava offerings are essentially PSLs in that they're long stroke gas piston, the Romanian PSL quality is just inferior to all the Russian and Yugo guns I've owned, handled, and fired.

 

[brianf]

If getting a “svd” you need a receiver with the space between the trigger guard and mag, Skelton wood stock.

It’s like wanting a M-14 and getting a mini-14.

 

[VargmatII]

SVD everyday of the week. The PSL is a very distant I don't know what place behind the SVD, NDM, M77, Saiga/Vepr, etc.

ETA: while the Saiga/Vepr and Zastava offerings are essentially PSLs in that they're long stroke gas piston, the Romanian PSL quality is just inferior to all the Russian and Yugo guns I've owned, handled, and fired.

Even at half the price of the Norinco?

 

[towerofpower93]

Even at half the price of the Norinco?

In my opinion, the PSL is just not an enjoyable rifle to shoot. The mags need to be fitted and tweaked for each rifle, the FCG is just as good or bad as your standard AKM, and the long stroke recoil with that big ass x54R round just isn't fun. The Yugo guns added the adjustable gas block and more consistency from rifle to rifle as far as mags go, and the SVD is an entirely different animal. The Saiga/Vepr get a minor bump up since there are aftermarket mags available and the mags and rifles seem to have far less issues of interchangeability compared to the PSL.

I had an AK54R back in the day and put less than 100rds through it before selling and eventually buying an SVD. I now have three SVDs and no PSLs.

If an SVD is what you want then run it down. The others aren't going to fill the void and you'll end up selling them for a loss or they'll just collect dust in the safe.

 

[fpgt72]

In the US the SVD are VERY hard to come by and VERY expensive....VERY. PSL's are not tickling $2k. Makes me glad I bought one years ago when it was "only" $800.

I have never shot an SVD and I run in those "surplus" circles. Not many have shot a PSL, while not uncommon, they are not in every corner drug store. I also have an SVT40, and bayonet and the stupid bayonet is a little like Johnson rifle bayonets, expensive and hard to find.

I can comment on the PSL as I own one. Mine is a "parts kit" gun built by TGI (tennessee guns) and I have owned it for over 10 years now. The barrels are pretty thin and they are going to move around quite a bit. Recoil is nothing like a bolt gun in 54R and they are quite fun to shoot. I do shoot both fairly often, and find the PSL and SVT40 really on par with each other. Best I have been able to get is minute of softball out of them so about a 3" group. They are not "sniper" rifles, but a rifle to give the squad a bit more reach.

The PSL is really just an over grown AK, same system.

Would I buy an SVD it one came along for under the stupid prices they bring, sure. But I am not going to spend over $4k for one, and that means in the US you are not going to get one. I would rather have the Johnson, but better get on it, as they are already over 4k.

If you have one of the old battery powered LPS scopes that use the goofy battery you can use a modern "watch battery" with a washer to fit to power the scope. Again in the US the batteries don't exist, I have no idea in your area of the world.

They are fun to shoot, pretty darn loud. Personally as I am a lazy bastage I will never shoot surplus in the thing. Just a pain to clean gas guns when shooting that crap. It also does not give you anything close to an accurate rifle. I don't think (check this on your own) you have to use light ball ammo in it as you do in the SVT. I do however as the SVT likes it, and I just have never gotten around to more heavy bullets.

I would love to have another mag for mine but prices for those are already over $100us, and they are not interchangeable with the the SVD.

Here is the only photo I have of mine....it is fairly crappy. I will also attach a video of the issues with that skinny barrel. It is rather old, but it is fairly good. And finally a video on the nuts and bolts of the rifle. I just noticed it has the airgun catalog in the photo.

In the end in the US the quality of them are all over the board, Some have US made parts, others are pure Romanian, mine is a mix master. Here they have a bit of a spotty reputation, some just are flat built to a very low standard by the importer. Others are quite good. I have never had an issue with mine and do enjoy it quite a bit.

I really should get it out and do some real loading work with it, I just never have. It came along the same time my SVT40 came along and I was more interested in that. I have never really worked with mine that much. I have had no function issues with my use.

 

[fpgt72]

In my opinion, the PSL is just not an enjoyable rifle to shoot. The mags need to be fitted and tweaked for each rifle, the FCG is just as good or bad as your standard AKM, and the long stroke recoil with that big ass x54R round just isn't fun. The Yugo guns added the adjustable gas block and more consistency from rifle to rifle as far as mags go, and the SVD is an entirely different animal. The Saiga/Vepr get a minor bump up since there are aftermarket mags available and the mags and rifles seem to have far less issues of interchangeability compared to the PSL.

I had an AK54R back in the day and put less than 100rds through it before selling and eventually buying an SVD. I now have three SVDs and no PSLs.

If an SVD is what you want then run it down. The others aren't going to fill the void and you'll end up selling them for a loss or they'll just collect dust in the safe.

WOW three!! I would love to see the photos. Are the "real" military versions or Tigers?

I was not aware that Yogo used PSL, I know about the M76, but that is again a different animal, and built around the german 8MM cartridge. Both Romania and yougoslavia did not have buddy buddy relationships with the USSR. Yugoslavia actually had battle plans for if NATO invaded or the USSR invaded. They did their own thing. This is why these commie countries had to build their own rifles.

A couple things you said I don't agree with. Now I don't know in Sweden but in the US if you buy a PSL and sell it a year down the line I doubt you would sell it for a loss. Anything is possible, but short of Brandon doing something really off the rails it will go up in value.

The mag issue I should comment on as well. In the US where some guys have "real" Romania made receivers there is not an issue with box stock mags. If it was put together by the monkey at Century all bets are off, a little like the 308 MAS 49/56 they converted, some work and some are a tomato stake. Here if you buy a mag and you have an "original" Rom rifle make sure there is no work done on the mag. You want a virgin mag, not one someone had to modify to make work in their specific rifle, it likely will not work in another. This is all pretty well known in the community.

I also don't know what the availability is in Sweden, here a military SVD is well over $20k now, and the "commercial" guns are well over $10k. I am not going to pay that. But it could be like the SVT40 is in Canada a few years ago, a $400 gun there and a $2000 gun just across the border here. Stupid. The Norinco stuff is the same here vs Canada.

I would love to see the photos of your collection.

 

[Guthwine]

I have a Saiga Tigr and be aware that it is a 1.5-3 MOA rifle with factory ammo (at least mine is - would love to try 7N1 but that is unobtainium). It is a beautiful rifle with lots of style but not necessarily the most accurate for the money. It's was designed for man size targets not shooting groups, thats how I cope with it.

 

[LeftyJason]

Some things to keep in mind.

 

[VargmatII]

In the US the SVD are VERY hard to come by and VERY expensive....VERY. PSL's are not tickling $2k. Makes me glad I bought one years ago when it was "only" $800.

I have never shot an SVD and I run in those "surplus" circles. Not many have shot a PSL, while not uncommon, they are not in every corner drug store. I also have an SVT40, and bayonet and the stupid bayonet is a little like Johnson rifle bayonets, expensive and hard to find.

I can comment on the PSL as I own one. Mine is a "parts kit" gun built by TGI (tennessee guns) and I have owned it for over 10 years now. The barrels are pretty thin and they are going to move around quite a bit. Recoil is nothing like a bolt gun in 54R and they are quite fun to shoot. I do shoot both fairly often, and find the PSL and SVT40 really on par with each other. Best I have been able to get is minute of softball out of them so about a 3" group. They are not "sniper" rifles, but a rifle to give the squad a bit more reach.

The PSL is really just an over grown AK, same system.

Would I buy an SVD it one came along for under the stupid prices they bring, sure. But I am not going to spend over $4k for one, and that means in the US you are not going to get one. I would rather have the Johnson, but better get on it, as they are already over 4k.

If you have one of the old battery powered LPS scopes that use the goofy battery you can use a modern "watch battery" with a washer to fit to power the scope. Again in the US the batteries don't exist, I have no idea in your area of the world.

They are fun to shoot, pretty darn loud. Personally as I am a lazy bastage I will never shoot surplus in the thing. Just a pain to clean gas guns when shooting that crap. It also does not give you anything close to an accurate rifle. I don't think (check this on your own) you have to use light ball ammo in it as you do in the SVT. I do however as the SVT likes it, and I just have never gotten around to more heavy bullets.

I would love to have another mag for mine but prices for those are already over $100us, and they are not interchangeable with the the SVD.

Here is the only photo I have of mine....it is fairly crappy. I will also attach a video of the issues with that skinny barrel. It is rather old, but it is fairly good. And finally a video on the nuts and bolts of the rifle. I just noticed it has the airgun catalog in the photo.

In the end in the US the quality of them are all over the board, Some have US made parts, others are pure Romanian, mine is a mix master. Here they have a bit of a spotty reputation, some just are flat built to a very low standard by the importer. Others are quite good. I have never had an issue with mine and do enjoy it quite a bit.

I really should get it out and do some real loading work with it, I just never have. It came along the same time my SVT40 came along and I was more interested in that. I have never really worked with mine that much. I have had no function issues with my use.

Thanks for the thurough reply.

To clarify and elaborate; When I wrote SVD I have the Norinco EM-351 in mind, that is as close as I could possibly get. And even that is amazing as this is not a commun gun around here. I still hope to get hold of a Norinco, but its up to the dealer.

The permit to purchase the rifle is valid for 6 months, so if I dont have a rifle before that it will expire, and thats not something I am about to let happen. I will be able to get a PSL on the same permit, probably a Zastava too, or a Tigr, if I could find one. Basicly, a semi automatic, in 7.62x54R with a long barrel will be good to go.

It will mainly be used on the 300-meter ranges around here. If I want a true precision tack driver, I can just take my Sako TRG 22 along instead. So this will not be, and was never supposed to be my one and only precision gun.

I will handload for it, pretty much 100%. I have brass and am wating for the reloading dies, then I am good to go on that part.

Oh, and a new Norinco SVD is around 3000$. The lightly used PSL is 1700$ (with extra stuff) and a brand new PSL is 2500$. Just to give you a feel for the current Swedish market situation.

 

[fpgt72]

Thanks for the thurough reply.

To clarify and elaborate; When I wrote SVD I have the Norinco EM-351 in mind, that is as close as I could possibly get. And even that is amazing as this is not a commun gun around here. I still hope to get hold of a Norinco, but its up to the dealer.

The permit to purchase the rifle is valid for 6 months, so if I dont have a rifle before that it will expire, and thats not something I am about to let happen. I will be able to get a PSL on the same permit, probably a Zastava too, or a Tigr, if I could find one. Basicly, a semi automatic, in 7.62x54R with a long barrel will be good to go.

It will mainly be used on the 300-meter ranges around here. If I want a true precision tack driver, I can just take my Sako TRG 22 along instead. So this will not be, and was never supposed to be my one and only precision gun.

I will handload for it, pretty much 100%. I have brass and am wating for the reloading dies, then I am good to go on that part.

Oh, and a new Norinco SVD is around 3000$. The lightly used PSL is 1700$ (with extra stuff) and a brand new PSL is 2500$. Just to give you a feel for the current Swedish market situation.

Thanks for that info, it is fun to see what is going on in other parts of the world. I am pretty far from the expert, but as I understand it the Norinco guns are a tick different over their Russian cousins. I have never had a parts issue, but that might be something to keep in the back of your head.

Zastava has a US presence so we can get them here as well, their new offerings that is. The old "military" stuff is different. Their offerings are expensive and not what I would call a precision rifle, but it is not made for that IMHO.

Good luck with your hunt, I will be interested in your reloading work. I run pretty light bullets in mine as that is what works in the SVT. Might look into the SVT40 as well, same cartridge and a real fun rifle as well.

 

[VargmatII]

Thanks for that info, it is fun to see what is going on in other parts of the world. I am pretty far from the expert, but as I understand it the Norinco guns are a tick different over their Russian cousins. I have never had a parts issue, but that might be something to keep in the back of your head.

Zastava has a US presence so we can get them here as well, their new offerings that is. The old "military" stuff is different. Their offerings are expensive and not what I would call a precision rifle, but it is not made for that IMHO.

Good luck with your hunt, I will be interested in your reloading work. I run pretty light bullets in mine as that is what works in the SVT. Might look into the SVT40 as well, same cartridge and a real fun rifle as well.

I dont know the price on the Zastava yet, it seems to be a have a lot better quality than the PSL, at least judging from various Youtube videos about them.
There acctually was an SVT for sale on a Swedish gun forum a few months back. But I would rather have something a bit more modern.

Id be happy to post my reloading work on the SVD/PSL once I get going.
My plan is to start out with a box of Lapua Lockbase 170 grain bullets that I have laying around. I also have some prototype monolithic brass bullets that I am testing for a Swedish brand. As well as SMK 168 and a bunch of Scenar L 175 bullets along with Norma and VV powder.
So there are some stuff to try out.

 

[acudaowner]

me too unfortunately mine is only a dream ....

 

[fpgt72]

I dont know the price on the Zastava yet, it seems to be a have a lot better quality than the PSL, at least judging from various Youtube videos about them.
There acctually was an SVT for sale on a Swedish gun forum a few months back. But I would rather have something a bit more modern.

Id be happy to post my reloading work on the SVD/PSL once I get going.
My plan is to start out with a box of Lapua Lockbase 170 grain bullets that I have laying around. I also have some prototype monolithic brass bullets that I am testing for a Swedish brand. As well as SMK 168 and a bunch of Scenar L 175 bullets along with Norma and VV powder.
So there are some stuff to try out.

Do some research on the SVT, and try to get a range of it. "American" articles will likely poo poo it over their love of the Garand. Both have good and bad. SVT was quite advanced, not only for its time but in the general way of thinking. Detachable 10 round magazine vs. an 8 round clip. What one was a dead end? Adjustable gas system, yea I know why, but it was there. Most here in the states have an AVT stock, so the weak wrist is less of an issue. And again we don't tend to use the rifles we have in the same ways a WWII soldier used theirs, it is a rifle stock, not a club in our uses. And the gun is just a hoot to shoot, plus the looks are just something different, no matter the brake on the end new or old style they just have a 'look' to them. Again I have not had an issue with mine.

One thing I will not suggest unless parts grow on trees in your area of the world is a G43...."hitlers Garand". They have a few issues with them, and mine once shed all parts relating to extraction. Took me over two years to hunt down what I needed to make the gun run again, and I have not shot it again, and I have the "shooters kit" in mine to take care of the over gassing issue.

The soviet automatic is a very serviceable rifle, I would shy away from the 38, for a shooter.....well again unless they are more common over there. Go and at least check out that SVT, it might shock you. And mine is about as accurate as the PSL.

 

[towerofpower93]

WOW three!! I would love to see the photos. Are the "real" military versions or Tigers?

I was not aware that Yogo used PSL, I know about the M76, but that is again a different animal, and built around the german 8MM cartridge. Both Romania and yougoslavia did not have buddy buddy relationships with the USSR. Yugoslavia actually had battle plans for if NATO invaded or the USSR invaded. They did their own thing. This is why these commie countries had to build their own rifles.

A couple things you said I don't agree with. Now I don't know in Sweden but in the US if you buy a PSL and sell it a year down the line I doubt you would sell it for a loss. Anything is possible, but short of Brandon doing something really off the rails it will go up in value.

The mag issue I should comment on as well. In the US where some guys have "real" Romania made receivers there is not an issue with box stock mags. If it was put together by the monkey at Century all bets are off, a little like the 308 MAS 49/56 they converted, some work and some are a tomato stake. Here if you buy a mag and you have an "original" Rom rifle make sure there is no work done on the mag. You want a virgin mag, not one someone had to modify to make work in their specific rifle, it likely will not work in another. This is all pretty well known in the community.

I also don't know what the availability is in Sweden, here a military SVD is well over $20k now, and the "commercial" guns are well over $10k. I am not going to pay that. But it could be like the SVT40 is in Canada a few years ago, a $400 gun there and a $2000 gun just across the border here. Stupid. The Norinco stuff is the same here vs Canada.

I would love to see the photos of your collection.

One is one of the 100 KBI SVDs that are the early 1990s military model. One is an HD-18, the recently imported Hungarian SVDs, and one is a Russian Tigr that's been dressed up into an SVDS with a demilled SVDS kit and a new production barrel that has the correct dimensions.

 

[towerofpower93]

Thanks for the thurough reply.

To clarify and elaborate; When I wrote SVD I have the Norinco EM-351 in mind, that is as close as I could possibly get. And even that is amazing as this is not a commun gun around here. I still hope to get hold of a Norinco, but its up to the dealer.

The permit to purchase the rifle is valid for 6 months, so if I dont have a rifle before that it will expire, and thats not something I am about to let happen. I will be able to get a PSL on the same permit, probably a Zastava too, or a Tigr, if I could find one. Basicly, a semi automatic, in 7.62x54R with a long barrel will be good to go.

It will mainly be used on the 300-meter ranges around here. If I want a true precision tack driver, I can just take my Sako TRG 22 along instead. So this will not be, and was never supposed to be my one and only precision gun.

I will handload for it, pretty much 100%. I have brass and am wating for the reloading dies, then I am good to go on that part.

Oh, and a new Norinco SVD is around 3000$. The lightly used PSL is 1700$ (with extra stuff) and a brand new PSL is 2500$. Just to give you a feel for the current Swedish market situation.

Based on those prices I would absolutely go for the Norinco or a Tigr if you can get access to one. The short stroke vs long stroke piston recoil impulse is real and the PSLs are just not on the same level as far as accuracy goes. If you're going to be handloading you may as well get the rifle that's shown to be more accurate....at least on this side of the pond.

 

[VargmatII]

Based on those prices I would absolutely go for the Norinco or a Tigr if you can get access to one. The short stroke vs long stroke piston recoil impulse is real and the PSLs are just not on the same level as far as accuracy goes. If you're going to be handloading you may as well get the rifle that's shown to be more accurate....at least on this side of the pond.

The issue is availability. If there was a Norinco on hand anywhere, I would get it in a hart beat. But I might be out of luck. That is why Im looking at the PSL. There seems to be two of them available right now. I would prefer the SVD type rifle.

 

[towerofpower93]

The issue is availability. If there was a Norinco on hand anywhere, I would get it in a hart beat. But I might be out of luck. That is why Im looking at the PSL. There seems to be two of them available right now. I would prefer the SVD type rifle.

Even then, the PSL would be last on my list. If you have any of the Yugos in 54R, 8mm, or .308 available I'd take one of those over it.

 

[VargmatII]

Even then, the PSL would be last on my list. If you have any of the Yugos in 54R, 8mm, or .308 available I'd take one of those over it.

We´ll se what it ends up on.
I cant really hange caliber on the permit now, so the 54r is set. Since I also cleared a "local" gunstore of all their 7.62x54R brass I will keep on that track. Still wating on the dies though.

 

[towerofpower93]

We´ll se what it ends up on.
I cant really hange caliber on the permit now, so the 54r is set. Since I also cleared a "local" gunstore of all their 7.62x54R brass I will keep on that track. Still wating on the dies though.

Ah, didn't realize the permit is tied to the caliber. Good luck on your hunt and please post pics when you eventually luck into that NDM

Hoping that last bit sends some good luck your way, haha.

 

[LR308guy]

OP, I am a little bit late in seeing your post, but I too had a great deal of experience with the PSL(FPK) rifle. I bought mine 20 years ago, for $350 with one magazine and the cleaning kit. Over the course of two years I did a lot of changes to the rifle just to make it different.

To start, it is a fun rifle to shoot, it always collects a crowd at the gun range, the recoil pulse is a long shove, not a sharp bite. It is a long Ak basically shooting the 54R. It has a long thin barrel that heats up quickly, 4-5 rounds when fired rapidly. It was position sensitive when using sand bags or bipod (use a rest just in front of the magazine for best results). 3 shot groups work best. It is not a sniper rifle, so don't expect anything like a bolt action, or a SVD, think about something a little bit better than an AK, but not too much better if you get my meaning. It was designed as a DMR, to help suppress MG or focal points of resistance.

I did a fair amount of reloading, research, and time involved in developing the most accurate load possible for the rifle. Two bullets I had the most luck with were Sierra 150 grain SPT load was for everyday and hunting load (it was 1.5 to 2.0 MOA), and Lapua D166 was for when I really wanted to surprise someone concerning the rifle (most three shot groups were just at 1.5 MOA, a rare few were 1.0 MOA but it was more luck and no caffeine that day to get that and it wasn't that repeatable on command). Used IMR4895 or H4895 burn rate powder. Lapua brass with the Lapua bullets. Winchester, PMC, Priviti, or whatever else I could find for the everyday loadings. In an unmodified gun be ready to have to find your brass in the next county, because it throws them about 10-15 feet away. More than one unsuspecting person could get a piece of hot brass bounced off them if in line of the ejection port.

Before anyone gets upset reading this post about using heavy bullets in a PSL(FPK) gun, mine was heavily modified gun. here is a list of some of the things I did to it.

Black Horse Armaments SVD furniture with rolling cheek piece
Red Star Arms 2 stage adjustable trigger set to 4.5 pounds.
Texas Armaments picatinny rail/dust cover with peep sight (this way I could mount a regular scope using quick release rings)
LPS 4x Romanian scope, with all of the filters and accessories
2 of the 4 magazine pouches with magazines, plus the rifle maintenance kit
recoil buffer so the bolt doesn't hit the trunnion too hard,
modified the gas block/port by drilling and threading for a stainless-steel insert/Allen head set screw and drilling it out the screw for port sizing.

It was a fun gun for experimenting, and shooting. When the surplus 7.62x54R ammo kind of dried up and got more expensive it got shot less and less. So I sold the whole kit to someone else that wanted it a lot more than I did for a hefty profit.

Kept all of the reloading gear, and surplus to feed my Sako M39. Now that is an accurate rifle.....

Good Luck OP, if you still get the PSL

 

[VargmatII]

Well, as a short and unimportant update:
I was granted and import permit from the Police, it took 3 workdays from application to the stamped permit in my mailbox. Which was surprisingly fast. So now I have all the needed paperwork.
And then came easter hollidays which apparently is a big thing in Germany and Austria. So it has been crickets for the last 10 days and will continue til this coming wednesday.

Then I think the ball will get rolling again on an Norinco NDM-86 (SVD).

Ill keep you guys posted.

Now im off to shoot the Swedish Nationals in Field Shooting today. We´ll se how that goes...

 

[VargmatII]

It took some time. But it came down to a SVD type when all was said and done. My friend from the gun club might still get the PSL.
But the Norinco is mine. Cant wate to take it to the range.

Oh, and I shot like shit in the nationals. Placed 48 out of 63-ish shooters in my class. Better luck next time, I guess.

 

[fpgt72]

If I had the option I would have gone the same route, sadly they are just stupid priced up here.

 

[VargmatII]

If I had the option I would have gone the same route, sadly they are just stupid priced up here.

And they are next to impossible to get here. The one I got might be the last in Europe for some time to come.

 

[fpgt72]

And they are next to impossible to get here. The one I got might be the last in Europe for some time to come.

That is a bit different, however the result on the costs of the item will be the same. With that known when you, or your grandchildren decide to sell, if they are just not taken away, who knows anymore. They will get a good bit of money out of it.

 

[towerofpower93]

Very nice. Is it new production or an older rifle that was just imported after you got your paperwork in order? Would welcome some detailed pics of the SN/import/manufacturer data engraved in the rifle and the FCG if you have the time.

There's a thread over on The AK Forum SVD section comparing NDM to SVD FCGs. Total gun nerd fest, but you know how the vintage crowd is

SVD vs. NDM-86 fire control differences

Also a thread covering it on The AK Files as well

Russian SVD vs. Chinese NDM-86 fire control differences

 

[fpgt72]

Very nice. Is it new production or an older rifle that was just imported after you got your paperwork in order? Would welcome some detailed pics of the SN/import/manufacturer data engraved in the rifle and the FCG if you have the time.

There's a thread over on The AK Forum SVD section comparing NDM to SVD FCGs. Total gun nerd fest, but you know how the vintage crowd is

SVD vs. NDM-86 fire control differences

Also a thread covering it on The AK Files as well

Russian SVD vs. Chinese NDM-86 fire control differences

Hay now....

 

[VargmatII]

Very nice. Is it new production or an older rifle that was just imported after you got your paperwork in order? Would welcome some detailed pics of the SN/import/manufacturer data engraved in the rifle and the FCG if you have the time.

There's a thread over on The AK Forum SVD section comparing NDM to SVD FCGs. Total gun nerd fest, but you know how the vintage crowd is

SVD vs. NDM-86 fire control differences

Also a thread covering it on The AK Files as well

Russian SVD vs. Chinese NDM-86 fire control differences

I dont know about the production year, but its a brand new rifle. The paperwork was not that bad, even if I was hesitant to get to it.
Ill post some pictures of the markings and such. Might not take the FCG out just yet, but maybe.

Right now Im just itching to get it to the range...

I have a box of S&B factory match. I have also done handloads with Lapua Lockbase, SMK 168 and some Nato standard FMJs. To get things going.

 

[PMB27]

But the Norinco is mine

Is there still that mystery warning in the user's manual "No copper case allowed"

 

[VargmatII]

Is there still that mystery warning in the user's manual "No copper case allowed"

View attachment 8133902

Yes, that is still there in the owners manual. I have decided not to give a shit about it.
I am confident that it will work just fine with brass cases.

 

[towerofpower93]

Hay now....

Haha, I calls it like I sees it....especially when I can just look in the mirror to do so. Though I guess I should have said cloners/vintage cloners vs just "vintage crowd"

 

[VargmatII]

Rangeday was here.

Me and my friend took to the range to get it zeroed and to get a feel for it.
It took a handfull of rounds to zero it, and there is some getting used to the low power optic. I have shot with various 5-25x scopes for years, so this is something different. The scope with its fixed 4x is pretty damn nice to look through though, well above my expectations.

The rifle runs like a champ, but it is rough on the brass. So I need to chamfer some edges on the dustcover and the rifle would benefit from a slightly longer LOP, so that is also on the to-do-list.

I mainly shot my handloads with Lapua 170 grain lockbase bullets today, also some 147 FMJ. The Lockbase works just fine and the first 5 shot group I ever shot with it after zero was set looked like this:

I am confident that I can do better with practice. So this summer is set for some good shooting with the oldschool rifle.
Hell, I am looking to sell my TRG as I feel that I cant really keep up with competitions, it is not worth the squeeze any more.
And with Sweden going into NATO. There will be no more comps held on military ranges any time soon, anyways.

 

[PMB27]

Here is my 6-shots group with an experimental set with PS-07 scope.
Distance : 100m , ammo : Целевые патроны улучшенной кучности, group size 1,21 MOA, so I have to practise and exercise, too, in order to get sub-MOA group.

 

[VargmatII]

Here is my 6-shots group with an experimental set with PS-07 scope.
Distance : 100m , ammo : Целевые патроны улучшенной кучности, group size 1,21 MOA, so I have to practise and exercise, too, in order to get sub-MOA group.

While I cant get Russian ammo for mine, I am confident that I will get better with practice.
The rifle was great to shoot, far from the 19 pound PRS rifle I have been draging around for the last few years.

 

[VargmatII]

Here is my 6-shots group with an experimental set with PS-07 scope.
Distance : 100m , ammo : Целевые патроны улучшенной кучности, group size 1,21 MOA, so I have to practise and exercise, too, in order to get sub-MOA group.
View attachment 8135350

Is that ammo in steel or brass cases?

 

[PMB27]

It is a brass case. I did not experience any difficulties with the gun's function and shell ejection, both in SVD and Type 85.

My best achievement - the so-called "cloverleaf" on 100m, when I still had the audacity and courage to shoot with the SVD :

Once I realized how valuable this rifle is becoming ( not only in US where the price is insane, but in Europe too. In Poland it is still possible to buy an original SVD but the price is 9150 $ / 8400 EUR ) , I stopped firing it and locked it in a safe as an investment

With Type 85 it doesn't get along so well yet, and regular sub-MOA groups are still ahead of me. But from time to time I manage to get not bad result from Type 85, too.

That is the best 3-shots group at 200m

I know that three-shot groups aren't very reliable and authoritative, but for a "Sunday shooter" like me, this is already an achievement.

 

[VargmatII]

It is a brass case. I did not experience any difficulties with the gun's function and shell ejection, both in SVD and Type 85.
View attachment 8136191

My best achievement - the so-called "cloverleaf" on 100m, when I still had the audacity and courage to shoot with the SVD :
View attachment 8136192

Once I realized how valuable this rifle is becoming ( not only in US where the price is insane, but in Europe too. In Poland it is still possible to buy an original SVD but the price is 9150 $ / 8400 EUR ) , I stopped firing it and locked it in a safe as an investment

With Type 85 it doesn't get along so well yet, and regular sub-MOA groups are still ahead of me. But from time to time I manage to get not bad result from Type 85, too.

That is the best 3-shots group at 200m
View attachment 8136193

I know that three-shot groups aren't very reliable and authoritative, but for a "Sunday shooter" like me, this is already an achievement.

Nice, in fact very nice.

I will shoot both steel and brass cased ammo in mine, even if the manual says only to shoot steel cased ammo. But the gun is CIP rated and as long as I keep my handloads in resonable limits I cant understand why it would be a problem.

When I searched for my Norinco I found an original SVD at an Austrian gun dealer, for the low low price of 10800 Euro. Which is a bit insane.
Yesterday I was tipped of about an original SVD in Italy that sells for 3500 Euro. Which is a great deal, if it is not a scam?! And I know nothing about the condition of that rifle.

Oh, and a collector in Holland wanted about 5500 Euro for his Norinco, brand new, but still way to much. I payed about half of that for mine, and it was also brand new, with the full kit of tools, sling, scope in metal box etc.

I am going to keep shooting with mine, but it might prove to be an investment. But it might also happen that the gunlaws change and that could make it impossible to sell. Im not too worried though. I am out of the competition shooting and this rifle will provide me with many good casual range days.

 

[PMB27]

I bought Type 85 to keep original SVD in a safe, but still have fun at the range with a similar rifle

Few years ago there was a batch of Type 85 offered in the Czech Republic for less than 2000 EUR - advertised as "confiscated humanitarian aid for one of the Balkan countries" They were sold very quickly

I also found in a Czech Republic quite strange "refurbished" SVD with non-matching parts, and black-refurbished bolt carrier, with no scope and accessories, so one have to be careful and check the offer carefully.