Gunsmithing Input on what happened to this brass...
- Thread starter Fenix Mike
- Start date
R
RihibahC
Guest
Well talked with the company today, looks like they are going to work with meThanks for all the help everyone! Ive learned a bunch in the past 4 pages, hope this helped someone else along the way as well.
I have been lurking on this site for years and never really had a need to make a user name since I could find all of the information I needed using the search function.
This thread spurred me to create a user name as I watched the story unfold.
To sum this up... You used a .338LM hand load that a friend developed for a completely different rifle in your Savage. On the FIRST ROUND OF THESE MYSTERY LOADS it blew up in your face and through some miracle you weren't injured or killed by it. Thank God for that.
You pulled the bullets from the remaining rounds and posted the pictures clearly showing the world that your buddy loaded those cartridges with a mixed powder charge.
So... Even though both YOU and YOUR BUDDY are the ones that are clearly responsible for this horrible accident you are bragging that Savage is going to take care of you? What did you tell Savage about what happened?
You voided the warranty by using hand loaded ammunition in the rifle... normally not an issue since most of us reload ourselves BUT you used someone else's loads developed for another rifle. Your buddy mixed powders and gave you some .338LM hand grenades... yet this is the manufacturer's fault?
Like I said before... What did you tell Savage?
I have a sneaking suspicion that you weren't honest with them about the circumstances surrounding your multiple failures (both the rifle blowing up and you and your buddy's safety failures) and I have since forwarded the link to this thread (along with multiple screen shots of it all just in case things get deleted) to Savage Customer Service. I really hope they use it to address this situation PROPERLY knowing the full picture and it forces you and your buddy to accept the blame and financial loss for your mistakes. A hard lesson needs to be learned here. A lesson that will hopefully force you and your buddy to accept that your carelessness put everyone in the immediate area in mortal danger. If the scope itself flew 40 yards it definitely had enough energy to seriously injure or kill a bystander at the range.
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Now that is a first post! Welcome to the hide! Yes, I agree, pretty fucked up savage is replacing this retarded move. Should take the remaining pieces of the savage and beat the shit out of your friend.
The powder almost looks like IMR 3031, WAY to fast for a 338 Lapua. I am using retumbo in mine.
For the record, he NEVER said it was a Savage rifle. It was a deductive assumption that i made based on comments he made and the price he paid. So your efforts could very well be in vein.
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Unless you read his prior posts in which he talks about owning a Savage .338. Efforts not in "vain" and applauded!!
Ah, never read that far into it.
It could very well be that his statement "the company is going to work with me" means they are offering to sell him another rifle at their cost just to say 'sorry for your loss. Let us help ease the pain by offering you a replacement at xxxx price'.
We don't know what he did and did not tell the rifle company (apparently Savage).
I know of several stand up companies that just do an existing customer a solid to make them loyal customers.
As i said earlier, i bet nightforce will work with him as well if he will send them the scope that may have very well saved him from injury.
So long as he was honest and forthcoming with the rifle company, their decision to help him out, whatever extent that may be, is on them.
We don't know the conversations that went on between the OP and the rifle manufacturer, so I'm not about to jump on his ass.
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It could very well be that his statement "the company is going to work with me" means they are offering to sell him another rifle at their cost just to say 'sorry for your loss. Let us help ease the pain by offering you a replacement at xxxx price'.
We don't know what he did and did not tell the rifle company (apparently Savage).
I know of several stand up companies that just do an existing customer a solid to make them loyal customers.
As i said earlier, i bet nightforce will work with him as well if he will send them the scope that may have very well saved him from injury.
So long as he was honest and forthcoming with the rifle company, their decision to help him out, whatever extent that may be, is on them.
We don't know the conversations that went on between the OP and the rifle manufacturer, so I'm not about to jump on his ass.
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Personally I could care less about his dealings with the company. I just don't want to be the guy standing next to his buddy next time he pulls the trigger on one of those. He's gonna get himself or someone else hurt.
L
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Oh i agree there!
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Taken care of means im still out quite a bit of money, but at least a little lube was used. Lesson learned, dont put anyone elses reloads in your gun even if it works fine in theirs. When I start loading it will be at much safer levels and with components I personally purchased. Thanks to those who were professional in the thread, and to those who werent, chances are you have never owned a business nor understood sometimes its better to take care of the customer if there is even 1% doubt on the outcome. I had a business for 6 years and more than once, even though I wasnt at fault whatsoever in the particular situations, I took care of the customer and made things right. There were times when I was 100% confident it wasnt my fault, and of course I denied all responsibility, but for occasions such as this where the proof lies in something that cant exactly be re-created, some times its better that both meet half way and everyone wins/loses. Regardless of the powder in the other rounds, im not 100% convinced it was just that round that caused this and the company didnt give me an exact cause of failure other than stating high pressure. I updated them with whatever info I had and everything I found as well. For everyone on this last page saying I dont deserve anything, its 100% my fault, I received PMs from others who didnt want to post in here (probably because of individuals such as those posting negatively) who said they had seen this issue before on the same rifle, as well as those who analyzed the brass and gun locally before I sent it off and agreed.
Regardless, its over, im done with it, and dont feel like kicking myself in the nuts any more trying to figure out more...
Regardless, its over, im done with it, and dont feel like kicking myself in the nuts any more trying to figure out more...
Glad it all worked out. What are you going to do about a scope?
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So are we going to see the rifle pics and the video?
Well after that incident, my Sig 716 and Savage FCP 308 both run nightforce now... if I continue with 338 lapua I will undoubtedly run another nightforce. They have been an incredible help through this and have some very talented and experienced employees. If I still had the Vortex or SWFA on there, the outcome of what happened may have not been in my favor health wise, although im sure Vortex would have replaced the scope since they seem to cover anything!
we will see once everything is finalized.
It's not too late to switch hobbies. That's what I suggest. Your understanding of how all this works is so far from reality, and you're so smart, that you will likely never reach the point of understanding what actually occurs during hand loading and firing firearms. Stay with rim fires and air guns, or just golf. Its a lot less dangerous. Or hurt yourself and others at the range. Then you can be a co-defendant with the gun maker in the suit brought by those injured, or their survivors, in the accident.
Guns and shooting is not a hobby. Its a discipline. Some are cut out for it, and some are not. You are not.
Guns and shooting is not a hobby. Its a discipline. Some are cut out for it, and some are not. You are not.
Edited. Not worth the keystrokes.
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M
milo 2.0
Guest
This thread was train wreck from the start, good thing Casey came along to blow the tressle.
R
RihibahC
Guest
Received a response from Savage Arms and they have forwarded all of the information provided to the engineers assigned to this case.
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milo 2.0
Guest
I bet you have alot of freinds that trust you!
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RihibahC
Guest
Actually I do for the simple reason that I hold personal accountability, honesty and integrity as core values to how I live my life. If I make a mistake I don't try and pass the blame and consequences on to innocent individuals (or in this case a manufacturer). I also don't surround myself with people that don't share those same core values.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Actually a better response than I expected.
Know he gained my respect fully with this.
There was a recent thread in the reloading section about mixing powders. Could the reloading buddy have been one of those in favor of mixing powders?
OFG
Yes, there was a thread on mixing powders. BUT, it was an academic discussion, and several times in that thread there were cautions about it. Duplex loads have been developed for many years. Also discussed was the need to know exactly what you were doing before attempting to do so. Probably on the order of the disclaimer shown on car ads---this ad is done by professional driver on a closed course-do not try this at home, etc.
I disagree.
Fact: Your NF took an asswhipping and stayed in one piece where any other scope would have been scattered around the range.
My Opinion: .... is that in spite of the above, the NF "saved" you from nothing.
The scope shows that it absorbed and probably deflected a huge jet stream of gas and slag that was venting upward and well forward of the action. Had the scope not been there at all, the cone of the high speed excursion would have been directed into just about the safest and luckiest direction you could have hoped for.
If anything, the badass NXS probably partially deflected more gas and particles back down and back toward you when it was in launch mode.
Did the NF stay in one piece when others probably would not? I say yes.
Did the NF save you from anything during this event? I say definitely not.
In my opinion, the same irresponsible use of reloading components trashed both your rifle and your scope. I do not think either manufacturer should intervene to help you recover your losses.
I welcome other thoughts on this as I could be totally assed up in my thinking.
Sent from my beat up BlackBerry.
A friend and I have worked on some Duplex and Triplex loads before in pistol and rifle use. Duplex loads with overbore magnums are highly effective at boosting velocity but if you don't know what you're doing and you're using in multiple rifles it's a recipe for disaster.
I don't even talk about developing them on places like this because I have no idea who's going to use it and without enough understanding that damage, injuries, or worse can happen. Glad the OP's not hurt...
I don't even talk about developing them on places like this because I have no idea who's going to use it and without enough understanding that damage, injuries, or worse can happen. Glad the OP's not hurt...
Terry Cross said:
I'm with you.
Antics like this are what drives litigation that makes it risky and unworthwhile to be in the business of manufacturing powder and primers.
In our litigious idiocracy, I'm amazed we still can buy smokeless powder and load our own ammunition.
Far more people hurt themselves with table saws and ladders, and yet we can still buy those. We just pay for it in the purchase price.
Issues related to product liability are some of the most interesting that I've encountered as an engineer. Spending an hour talking with a good product liability attorney makes my head spin way faster than any math or physics class ever did.
Ssshhhhh, Turbo, they might be listening and agree with you and try to pass some law to correct this "failing," taking powder away from us......God, I hope NOT!!!
First off, thanks to 80% of those who posted for great input, and for the 20%, well great job at destroying a thread, putting words in my mouth and making up stories as you go along... I guess I dont expect anything more on a forum and thats what I get for seeking information.
Savage did take care of me and supplied a new rifle. Nightforce gave me a discount on a new scope, and I came out of pocket quite a bit. I havent placed blame on anyone, so for the idiots in this thread who assume I blamed Savage for anything, or decided to run around and cause drama with others, great job on being completely worthless. I wont be posting anymore on this thread, I just figured id end it with lesson learned, and a very expensive lesson.
Thanks to Savage, Nightforce, and those who did offer educational input.
Savage did take care of me and supplied a new rifle. Nightforce gave me a discount on a new scope, and I came out of pocket quite a bit. I havent placed blame on anyone, so for the idiots in this thread who assume I blamed Savage for anything, or decided to run around and cause drama with others, great job on being completely worthless. I wont be posting anymore on this thread, I just figured id end it with lesson learned, and a very expensive lesson.
Thanks to Savage, Nightforce, and those who did offer educational input.
Hodgdons response was "were way too busy to take time to look over your sample, I wont even look at the pictures even though I requested them and wanted more info, sorry contact this guy maybe he can help". They did tell me how to decode the LOT number which was 2009, and I will have to call the contact they gave me, but at this point im just done with everything, taking my loss and moving on. The individuals who had to play internet detective and blow this thread from an informational gathering thread into the apperance of a smear thread (cmon guys, I have a video of it blowing up, tons of pics etc, if I wanted a smear thread, I would have made one and it would have had much greater impact on Youtube and other sources). I still dont have 100% proof either way, but Savage and Nightforce stepped up to the plate and im writing off the difference as a loss and a great lesson learned... Load it myself or buy factory ammo.
R
RihibahC
Guest
I just received this in a PM from the OP:
It was very obvious from the beginning that he was trying to place the blame on the manufacturer of the rifle. The blame still lies squarely on the OP and his buddy for this catastrophic failure and it's absolutely shameful that neither possess the constitution to be men and accept the responsibility the failure of the rifle and the total disregard for the safety of those around them at the range.
This is a prime example of why I use the search function to find the information I need instead of becoming an active member of this community.
There are plenty of people I've seen on here over the years that I would be more than happy to shoot with but as of late... they are becoming few and far between and this sport is very quickly becoming populated by individuals such as the OP who put everyone on the firing line at risk.
It was very obvious from the beginning that he was trying to place the blame on the manufacturer of the rifle. The blame still lies squarely on the OP and his buddy for this catastrophic failure and it's absolutely shameful that neither possess the constitution to be men and accept the responsibility the failure of the rifle and the total disregard for the safety of those around them at the range.
This is a prime example of why I use the search function to find the information I need instead of becoming an active member of this community.
There are plenty of people I've seen on here over the years that I would be more than happy to shoot with but as of late... they are becoming few and far between and this sport is very quickly becoming populated by individuals such as the OP who put everyone on the firing line at risk.
It is really sad how some with lack of personal accountability still seem to attempt to scam the system and then to brag about it to fellow shoots is obsurd. I am glad you guys called this guy out and hopefully he and maybe some others learn from his asshattery.
Welcome Fenix Mike. You'll fit in just fine around here.
Cheers.
Cheers.
WOW!
So Savage and Nightforce both got to eat some expense because of your poor decision.....
The ethics of some people make me question this hobby.
So Savage and Nightforce both got to eat some expense because of your poor decision.....
The ethics of some people make me question this hobby.
Good grief, why do some of you take it on as your duty to attack the OP's character. What is that going to solve? He's the one that could have been killed and hes the one that this affects financially.
Most of us just want to know what the final findings were so we can learn from it. But once again a few have screwed it up for the rest of us.
Most of us just want to know what the final findings were so we can learn from it. But once again a few have screwed it up for the rest of us.
And we wonder why optics like NightForce continue to increase in cost.
So savages where is your post looking for free stuff from a manufacturer? "Birds of a feather and all"
This is theft in my eyes...
Leviticus: 6:1-7
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “If anyone sins and commits a breach of faith against the Lord by deceiving his neighbor in a matter of deposit or security, or through robbery, or if he has oppressed his neighbor or has found something lost and lied about it, swearing falsely—in any of all the things that people do and sin thereby— if he has sinned and has realized his guilt and will restore what he took by robbery or what he got by oppression or the deposit that was committed to him or the lost thing that he found or anything about which he has sworn falsely, he shall restore it in full and shall add a fifth to it, and give it to him to whom it belongs on the day he realizes his guilt. ...
This is theft in my eyes...
Leviticus: 6:1-7
The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “If anyone sins and commits a breach of faith against the Lord by deceiving his neighbor in a matter of deposit or security, or through robbery, or if he has oppressed his neighbor or has found something lost and lied about it, swearing falsely—in any of all the things that people do and sin thereby— if he has sinned and has realized his guilt and will restore what he took by robbery or what he got by oppression or the deposit that was committed to him or the lost thing that he found or anything about which he has sworn falsely, he shall restore it in full and shall add a fifth to it, and give it to him to whom it belongs on the day he realizes his guilt. ...
R
RihibahC
Guest
He is not the only one that could've been killed or effected financially by his mistakes and regard for safety. He put every single person in the area at risk of serious injury (there's your financial loss aspect for wages, medical bills, etc) or death. That is the entire point being made. The fact that he then contacted those companies to try and recover his losses only added to it.
I guess the internet detectives havent seen other threads where I commended Savage on their other products I own... Or on other forums.
Keyboard commandos unite... I expect nothing more from a forum of "elitists". I will let the tough guys hash it out in this forumand keep 5 more pages of stupidity going. Have fun ladies!
Keyboard commandos unite... I expect nothing more from a forum of "elitists". I will let the tough guys hash it out in this forumand keep 5 more pages of stupidity going. Have fun ladies!
I still wonder about the disparity of the powder. I wonder if kids had access to the reloading bench.
So when will you quit posting? Already posted 3-4 times since this. Just curious.
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