Is abortion ok

[mikeshaw2]

So murder should be legal then?

Laws dont stop crime, they allow for punishment.

If what laws do is allow for punishment, they aren't really needed then are they?

Punishment can be meted out without a law. ...and I suspect that's where we're headed when the government doesn't enforce their own punishments. Criminal gets arrested, gets released, reoffends, etc At some point, vigilantes are going to say enough is enough and take matters into their own hands. ...which doesn't require a law now does it?

I'll say it again slowly: you can not legislate morality.

M

 

[mikeshaw2]

So no laws are required at all then?

Very ANCAP position, I approve.

Fewest laws possible, yes. No laws? Probably not feasible.

M

 

[OkieMike]

I always like to ask if they are going to adopt the kids given up for adoption if they are against abortion.

Part of the reason for that is because adoption runs in the tens of thousands of dollars and an abortion is a day's wages.

The reason for the expense is to ensure the kids are going to a good home and that nothing bad happens to them... So the counterargument is that it's easier and cheaper to murder them in the womb to make sure nothing bad happens to them.

Mike

 

[lariat]

Part of the reason for that is because adoption runs in the tens of thousands of dollars and an abortion is a day's wages.

The reason for the expense is to ensure the kids are going to a good home and that nothing bad happens to them... So the counterargument is that it's easier and cheaper to murder them in the womb to make sure nothing bad happens to them.

Mike

That is a very poor argument. In order for that to be true one would have to argue that being aborted does not constitute "something bad" happening to them. Essentially its like saying we need to kill people so that they will not be abused or killed. Not saying that is your argument, just saying its a poor one.

Saying instead something like "we need to abort these children for the good of humanity" would be probably more honest. Morally bankrupt in my view, but it would at least be honest.

 

[BradZ]

100% OK. Nobody should be forced to have a kid and nobodys life should be ruined

 

[norcalAF]

View attachment 8293016
Look closely at this graph.
Check the time line against highly effective birth control options.
What do you notice?

R

That whites turned into Latinos and white Latinos

 

[n2ishun]

Is abortion ok​

Not sure I have any coat hangers left.....so, probably no.

You were asking if I could perform one on you....right ?

 

[hkguns]

Science tells you, life begins at conception. "Trust the Science."

If NASA found the cells produced at conception, on another planet, do you think they'd claim they found life? Of course they would. They'd stumble all over themselves trying to be the first to the press conference.

If murder is wrong, how do you condone killing an innocent child, simply for your convenience? Parents should protect their children, as nature intended, not murder them.

The real solution is fewer Gold Digging whores, to borrow a phrase from another thread.

 

[lariat]

Science tells you, life begins at conception. "Trust the Science."

If NASA found the cells produced at conception, on another planet, do you think they'd claim they found life? Of course they would. They'd stumble all over themselves trying to be the first to the press conference.

That is a very good observation.

 

[quietmike]

100% OK. Nobody should be forced to have a kid

In the overwhelming majority of cases, no one is forced to have sex. Nearly everyone knows pregnancy is a possible result of sex.

and nobodys life should be ruined

Including the baby's? Can't get much more ruined than being killed.

 

[BradZ]

In the overwhelming majority of cases, no one is forced to have sex. Nearly everyone knows pregnancy is a possible result of sex.

Including the baby's? Can't get much more ruined than being killed.

Not a concern to me at all. They're not alive, give me your memory from the womb.

 

[quietmike]

Not a concern to me at all. They're not alive, give me your memory from the womb.

Past democrats had pseudoscientific arguments of why slaves and native americans didn't really count as people and could be killed.
They had special names for them too, to try and dehumanize them and assuage any guilt over mistreating or killing them.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Not a concern to me at all. They're not alive, give me your memory from the womb.

Tell me your memories from when you were 2 months old...

 

[hkguns]

Just remember everyone, they blew their "my body my choice" bullshit out their ass in 2021 when THEY were trying to force jabs into everyone.

It was BS to begin with because there is another living being involved.

Their situational "ethics" are astounding and I am being generous, because I firmly believe they have no ethics, regardless of the topic.

 

[quietmike]

Tell me your memories from when you were 2 months old...

Odd how they can regurgitate the talking points, but when asked direct questions, they vanish like a fart in a hurricane.

 

[lariat]

Just remember everyone, they blew their "my body my choice" bullshit out their ass in 2021 when THEY were trying to force jabs into everyone.

It was BS to begin with because there is another living being involved.

Their situational "ethics" are astounding and I am being generous, because I firmly believe they have no ethics, regardless of the topic.

Moral relativism. Which is a long way to say immoral.

 

[supercorndogs]

Abortion is like firearms


If you don't like them, then don't get one....simple.

Do I care if people in Africa are killing each other and chopping up their victims? Nope.

Are they committing murder?

Yep. Will I do anything about it? Nope


A better question to the ask about Abortion is, do we want the children of the people that are having them in the US? Short answer is fuck no.

Someone choosing to murder a helpless baby. Is the same as someone choosing to buy a firearm. That's top ten stupidest things I have ever seen or heard.

 

[supercorndogs]

I'd love to see it turned around like you said, but I don't have that kind of faith in people.

Having known people jump through hoops to adopt an American kid is crazy. My uncle ended up adopting a child from China due to that. The amount of orphans in this world is already ridiculous and if you look at the statistics of abortions, I really don't know what we would do with that number of people. It's the sad truth that most don't bother looking at.

So, by that logic would you say anyone committing genocide is provid8ng a public service. Wait to go Hitler. I don't how many peopel those millions of jews would have made and I don't know what they would be doing right now.

 

[supercorndogs]

I for one believe the government should get out of funding abortion at least. Let people take responsibility for their own lives!

We pay for the muders. The people who commit them get rich selling the body parts. Kind of reminds me of these "free" flu and Covid shots.

 

[cast1]

Tell me your memories from when you were 2 months old...

Also tell me the feds would be fine with me scrambling up some bald eagle egg omelets fresh from the nest. I’ll have mine with bacon, onions, and jalepeno. Tastes like freedom….

 

[Bradu]

So, by that logic would you say anyone committing genocide is provid8ng a public service. Wait to go Hitler. I don't how many peopel those millions of jews would have made and I don't know what they would be doing right now.

Go have a look at the numbers of abortions in the last 20 years, you don't even have to figure in how many of those would have had kids by now as well. Let me know how those numbers compare to Hitler's body count. Then tell me how the world is supposed to support those numbers with food and housing. I'm willing to listen to suggestions...oh wait, you'll just stick to calling names and not actually do anything about the problem.


Let's not forget how many people on here already complain about taxes already being too high, people drawing welfare and the money sent to other countries.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Go have a look at the numbers of abortions in the last 20 years, you don't even have to figure in how many of those would have had kids by now as well. Let me know how those numbers compare to Hitler's body count. Then tell me how the world is supposed to support those numbers with food and housing. I'm willing to listen to suggestions...oh wait, you'll just stick to calling names and not actually do anything about the problem.


Let's not forget how many people on here already complain about taxes already being too high, people drawing welfare and the money sent to other countries.

There is no shortage of resources on the planet
Best estimates are that the planet could easily support double the current human population.

You know if humans were intelligent and actually didn't spend all their money on killing each other and dominating each other and having planned waste for maximum corporate profits. If the carbon cult and green cult were kicked in the ass and wiped out and people got back to progress.

Most "welfare" money and "aid" money is "used up" long before it gets to the supposed recipients. In some cases up to 90% goes to "overhead"...

It's a LIE that you need to murder unborn babies for everyone else to have a good lifestyle.

I could probably fix most of the problems if I was a brutal global dictator, but then everybody would hate me for forcing them at gunpoint to live in a peaceful, orderly decent manner.

Plus you know, there is like this whole universe that we could go and start populating if we wanted to find a way to keep all the corporations that currently benefit from military spending in business...

 

[Bradu]

There is no shortage of resources on the planet
Best estimates are that the planet could easily support double the current human population.

You know if humans were intelligent and actually didn't spend all their money on killing each other and dominating each other and having planned waste for maximum corporate profits. If the carbon cult and green cult were kicked in the ass and wiped out and people got back to progress.

Most "welfare" money and "aid" money is "used up" long before it gets to the supposed recipients. In some cases up to 90% goes to "overhead"...

It's a LIE that you need to murder unborn babies for everyone else to have a good lifestyle.

I could probably fix most of the problems if I was a brutal global dictator, but then everybody would hate me for forcing them at gunpoint to live in a peaceful, orderly decent manner.

Plus you know, there is like this whole universe that we could go and start populating if we wanted to find a way to keep all the corporations that currently benefit from military spending in business...

Once again, none of those are realistic expectations and will never happen. This is the hide that complains about government overreach, but now you want to be a dictator and hold everyone at gun point? Let me guess, your plan involves only the government and law enforcement having guns in order to work...

 

[W54/XM-388]

Let me guess, your plan involves only the government and law enforcement having guns in order to work...

Doesn't need to have the government and oppressors involved if people were willing to be decent and clean up their own messes and take care of their own back yards themselves and go get rid of evil.

Folks wanting to outsource cleaning up the trash to others is the problem.

 

[BufordTJustice]

We pay for the muders. The people who commit them get rich selling the body parts. Kind of reminds me of these "free" flu and Covid shots.

I really don't understand why we are fascinated as a populous to argue over the crumbs? Get the government out of peoples lives and pockets. Let local/state gov. decide. We as a citizenry should have representation over ourselves..." ...by the people, for the people" This argument has devolved into "when does life begin?, killing a baby is still killing...? Move on, legalize/don't legalize, I see the issue as a deterioration of values, family, societal civility etc. Yes, there are exceptions, yes this is a complicated issue. Either you want the government to make the decision for you, give you absolution, or...take responsibility and stand up.

 

[BufordTJustice]

Doesn't need to have the government and oppressors involved if people were willing to be decent and clean up their own messes and take care of their own back yards themselves and go get rid of evil.

Folks wanting to outsource cleaning up the trash to others is the problem.

I was typing when you wrote this...couldn't agree more!

 

[Bradu]

Doesn't need to have the government and oppressors involved if people were willing to be decent and clean up their own messes and take care of their own back yards themselves and go get rid of evil.

Folks wanting to outsource cleaning up the trash to others is the problem.

These what it's are getting more and more like fairy tales

 

[BufordTJustice]

We have bred ignorance, we've raised ignorance, and we teach ignorance...all under the guise of enlightenment. And now we want to argue/debate intelligently...to govern..., a reckoning is what's coming.

 

[W54/XM-388]

These what it's are getting more and more like fairy tales

Not really, just we are not yet at the part of the circle where the hard men have been properly forged and are ready to do what is needed to bring back the good times. Folks have it too easy, people have to much still to lose.
It will continue getting worse until it hits a critical point and folks will be forced to pick a side and fight for it, and then we'll see who will win.

Freedom and liberty is however a very modern concept in history and who knows if it will continue or be a brief moment of light before the next age of darkness.

People don't realize how good even the "poor people" have it compared to most of history.

 

[doubloon]

Freedom and liberty is however a very modern concept in history and who knows if it will continue or be a brief moment of light before the next age of darkness.

I tend to think it's not necessarily coincidence the FED wasn't interested in abortions until around the same time income tax started ... more cattle more money. Figuring out how to rob people of money and freedom at the same time was just a bonus.

Abortions should 100% be legal and elective up to a certain level of development and that level should be up to around the time it can survive the birth process and breath on its own. Abortion after this point should require some medical justification. Pretty much the way it was for the first hundred years and as originally interpreted from Roe v. Wade

Keep religion out of politics and government.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I for one believe the government should get out of funding abortion at least. Let people take responsibility for their own lives!

From a strictly financial standpoint its pay a little now or a lot later.

 

[doubloon]

Who here is making a religious argument?


So if someone is on a ventilator and can't breath on their own, I can shoot them and it's not murder?

Well, since shooting is not how abortions happen your question is ludicrous, alarmist, drama-queenish, devoid of logic and pointless.

But, if you believe taking someone off a ventilator is murder then I "murdered" my mother a few years ago. Turn me in, I confess.

If you believe no one here is arguing from a position based in religion I think that's naive, JMOYMMV. I could be wrong about my assumption that some here are arguing from a position of religion but, in my experience, most people who take the position it's a "human being" as soon as the egg is fertilized are arguing from religious positions but they don't have the balls to say it so they call it "moral".

None of them, except the truly stubborn, will attempt to genuinely argue a fertilized hen's egg is a chicken or that a fertilized bovine embryo is a cow or a bull. And they will make every effort to avoid the topic of in vitro and the fact that many fertilized eggs are discarded in the process.

If a fertilized egg is a human being and aborting it is murder then everybody involved in the in vitro process were zygotes are discarded needs to be prosecuted for multiple counts of murder, accessory to murder, conspiracy to murder, serial murder, etc. and every miscarriage needs to be investigated as a possible murder.

 

[OkieMike]

That is a very poor argument. In order for that to be true one would have to argue that being aborted does not constitute "something bad" happening to them. Essentially its like saying we need to kill people so that they will not be abused or killed. Not saying that is your argument, just saying its a poor one.

Saying instead something like "we need to abort these children for the good of humanity" would be probably more honest. Morally bankrupt in my view, but it would at least be honest.

We 100% agree. I guess my sarcasm in the second part of my post didn't translate very well.

I also find it ironic that as a society we go to the ends of the Earth to make sure a person accused of a capitol crime is given a trial... judged by a jury of their peers... and sentenced by a person who spent 8 years studying law and numerous years arguing law in court before pronouncing the murderer deserving of death.

But an unborn child whose "crime" is an inconvenient existence has its fate decided by a scared young woman and a doctor (being paid to perform the procedure) in a private meeting in a clinic.

I would think a country so obsessed with justice and equality would raise the bar for such a decision a little bit higher.

MIke

 

[BufordTJustice]

From a strictly financial standpoint its pay a little now or a lot later.

I understand, and while I see the argument...It's costly both ways. Welfare expenditures have increased under Roe v Wade. Again Roe v Wade is a states rights case under the auspice of abortion. Ultimately personal responsibility is best.

 

[supercorndogs]

These what it's are getting more and more like fairy tales

making up fairytails about where the world would be if all these mudered babies were still alive. Decrying others for talking in the hypothetical too.

You think any of those babies would be pissed about the 100 million third world people who have come across our border. While they were murdered to conserve resources.

People like you may find this amazing. Since I was little the population of Denver has grown by a couple million or so. Instead of all those people being homeless and starving more recoures were developed by peopel. Despite the government getting in thier way. Fucking shocking isn't it.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Waited a bit before jumping into this thread.

Overall, I oppose abortion for all the obvious reasons. For those who claim, "It's my Body!,".... well, no it's not, when you're pregnant. "Your body" is acting as a "host" to another body with an independent DNA and an independent right to life! What possible, viable reason could one have for electing (voluntarily) to abort a baby except as "Emergency backup birth control..." Unacceptable! Either learn how to do birth control right, or not at all! Stay abstinent. Those are your choices.

That said, I will tolerate abortion in very limited circumstances. First, of course, to save the life of the mother, if needed, as a last resort. Otherwise, I will tolerate it for rape/incest in limited cases, and here's why. Pregnancy is, of course, a very complex medical condition to be in. Lots of different things going on, and lots of things that can go wrong, putting the mother at risk for "life threatening" conditions (bleeding, eclampsia, pre-eclampsia, abruptio placenta, placenta previa, ectopic pregnancy, non cephalic presentations, prolapse cord, shoulder distocia,etc. etc.), many of which are in the later trimesters and after the fetus becomes viable "ex-utero." If a woman volunteers to get pregnant and have a baby, accepting those risks, then so be it. God Bless., and I hope she delivers a healthy, happy kid. Rape and Incest, by definition, are not voluntary. They are forced upon the woman. I therefore don't think it fair to force the victim of rape/incest to bring the child to term and incur those potential medical risks, if she did not make the choice to get pregnant. But, decide quickly! If she chooses to stay pregnant past the point where the fetus becomes viable "ex utero," then that child must be brought to term and delivered, the various medical risks accepted, and put up for adoption (if that's what the mother wants).

Other than that, no abortion! Either learn how to do birth control right, or learn how to stay abstinent (or learn how to start folding diapers)!

 

[The D]

Waited a bit before jumping into this thread.

Overall, I oppose abortion for all the obvious reasons. For those who claim, "It's my Body!,".... well, no it's not, when you're pregnant. "Your body" is acting as a "host" to another body with an independent DNA and an independent right to life! What possible, viable reason could one have for electing (voluntarily) to abort a baby except as "Emergency backup birth control..." Unacceptable! Either learn how to do birth control right, or not at all! Stay abstinent. Those are your choices.

That said, I will tolerate abortion in very limited circumstances. First, of course, to save the life of the mother, if needed, as a last resort. Otherwise, I will tolerate it for rape/incest in limited cases, and here's why. Pregnancy is, of course, a very complex medical condition to be in. Lots of different things going on, and lots of things that can go wrong, putting the mother at risk for "life threatening" conditions (bleeding, eclampsia, pre-eclampsia, abruptio placenta, placenta previa, ectopic pregnancy, non cephalic presentations, prolapse cord, shoulder distocia,etc. etc.), many of which are in the later trimesters and after the fetus becomes viable "ex-utero." If a woman volunteers to get pregnant and have a baby, accepting those risks, the so be it. God Bless., and I hope she delivers a healthy, happy kid. Rape and Incest, by definition, are not voluntary. They are forced upon the woman. I therefore don't think it fair to force the victim of rape/incest to bring the child to term and incur those potential medical risks, if she did not make the choice to get pregnant. But, decide quickly! If she chooses to stay pregnant past the point where the fetus becomes viable "ex utero," then that child must be brought to term and delivered, the various medical risks accepted, and put up for adoption (if that's what the mother wants).

Other than that, no abortion! Either learn how to do birth control right, or learn how to stay abstinent (or learn how to start folding diapers)!

Just a few quibbles but I agree 99.9%.

A medical emergency that involves mother and baby is not an abortion. The triage process in this situation prioritizes the mother first but the baby isn’t just removed and thrown in a trash can.

In cases of rape, my opinion is that the victim should be expected to carry the baby to term and at least find a family to adopt the baby, there will 100% be a family willing to adopt this baby. If she wants to have a C-section as soon as possible that’s ok, I totally understand. The baby in this scenario is still the most innocent party involved and is afforded the right to live. The perpetrator, on the other hand, needs to incur any and all costs associated with their disgusting actions. And, even after the birth is over they should still be made to pay reparations to the victim. Up to and including their life being ended. I yield to no one in my belief that individual liberty needs to be held in the highest regard possible but assault including rape is 1b on the list behind murder.

The only scenario I could be persuaded to accept is if there are serious questions about the baby’s health once born, whether that’s a severe mental or other genetic defect. This must be diagnosed as soon as possible and a decision made as long before the baby reaches viability. Just like the rape scenario above, there will 100% be a family willing to adopt this baby so if it reaches viability it needs to be delivered. Naturally or C-section is irrelevant, it’s up to the mother and/or the adopting family

 

[lariat]

making up fairytails about where the world would be if all these mudered babies were still alive. Decrying others for talking in the hypothetical too.

You think any of those babies would be pissed about the 100 million third world people who have come across our border. While they were murdered to conserve resources.

People like you may find this amazing. Since I was little the population of Denver has grown by a couple million or so. Instead of all those people being homeless and starving more recoures were developed by peopel. Despite the government getting in thier way. Fucking shocking isn't it.

BINGO. I was thinking about this and came to a similar conclusion: why are we aborting babies here while allowing others to flood the border?Biden has come out publicly stating that our population trend is down, so some immigration is needed. So, are we now saying that those who are getting abortions are not producing productive citizens that contribute to the overall GDP? If that is so, how does it correlate that those crossing the border will? We are already giving them handouts so what is the expectation that they will contribute meaningfully over the welfare children, even though they are by and large uneducated themselves and many don't even know the language? If we are trading one uneducated and non-working person for another then the net real gain to benefit society is zero. If someone says "no, that's not what I am talking about", well is seems like someone sure as hell is. Or they are complete morons. Probably both.

RACISM! Except for the Africans that are coming over, unless they then get an abortion...

 

[W54/XM-388]

Reliable male on demand, easily reversed or discontinued birth control is about to become a reality pretty soon.
Considering how many gold diggers and just not nice women are around, I expect a lot of promiscuous men will want to "disappoint" those looking for a 20 year free ride of money on the back of a kid.

That may actually pretty much make the abortion debate almost moot.

 

[fdkay]

A couple of things.
No, I don't think abortion is a good thing. You are killing another human being.
However, it's not my decision, why would I impose my beliefs on someone else?
Do what Kansas and Ohio did and what the Dobbs decision said.
Let the VOTERS of each state decide.
You don't believe in abortion? Don't get one.
Not only that, the VAST majority of those that are aborting their offspring are solid democrat voters and their offspring would likely be generational suck on society that would also vote democrat.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I understand, and while I see the argument...It's costly both ways. Welfare expenditures have increased under Roe v Wade. Again Roe v Wade is a states rights case under the auspice of abortion. Ultimately personal responsibility is best.

There is no personal responsibility. That has been completely eliminated.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Just a few quibbles but I agree 99.9%.

A medical emergency that involves mother and baby is not an abortion. The triage process in this situation prioritizes the mother first but the baby isn’t just removed and thrown in a trash can.

Agreed.

In cases of rape, my opinion is that the victim should be expected to carry the baby to term and at least find a family to adopt the baby, there will 100% be a family willing to adopt this baby. If she wants to have a C-section as soon as possible that’s ok, I totally understand. The baby in this scenario is still the most innocent party involved and is afforded the right to live. The perpetrator, on the other hand, needs to incur any and all costs associated with their disgusting actions.

Would you be willing to support the "death penalty" for that perp if the mother (or baby) dies as a result of being obliged to carry that baby to term and perishing from one or more of those medical conditions? Or sentencing enhancements if either Mother or baby survive the delivery but have some permanent medical impairment?

Again, I'm not saying that I'd condone an abortion after the fetus becomes "viable" as you suggest below. But at least in the embryo stage or perhaps even before that (i.e. a "morning after" pill or a D & C or something within 48 hours of the rape after evidence is gathererd).

Unless you believe that "life begins at conception."

The only scenario I could be persuaded to accept is if there are serious questions about the baby’s health once born, whether that’s a severe mental or other genetic defect. This must be diagnosed as soon as possible and a decision made as long before the baby reaches viability. Just like the rape scenario above, there will 100% be a family willing to adopt this baby so if it reaches viability it needs to be delivered. Naturally or C-section is irrelevant, it’s up to the mother and/or the adopting family

Oddly enough, I'd probably not condone abortions for those reasons. First, I'm not sure how one could diagnose such maladies while "in utero" and before "viability," unless they can be detected by ultrasound or amniocentesis. And, by then, it's too late. Moreover, I've seen a lot of cases of International adoptions from China (the Youtube videos are all over the place), where US couples that want to adopt are encouraged to adopt Chinese children (mostly girls) that have "special needs." Most of them have Down Syndrome but there are others with severe mental of physical defects. Still, the parents adopt them, right and left. I salute them. I guess it doesn't happen as much from China anymore as they've relaxed the "one child" policy as well as our new "strained" relationship with them (less likely to approve US parents for adoption of Chinese children).

But I wouldn't have a problem with a pregnancy (or suspected pregnancy) as a result of rape/incest that is terminated within a very short time after the event (48-72hrs).

 

[fdkay]

The problem with the rape exception is that then every unwanted pregnancy is due to rape.

 

[Fx51LP308]

The problem with the rape exception is that then every unwanted pregnancy is due to rape.

OK, every rape that's "reported" to and investigated by LE??? And, for which a perp is arrested/charged?

 

[Longshot231]

Unless you believe that "life begins at conception."

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
-Psalm 139:13-16

 

[The D]

Agreed.



Would you be willing to support the "death penalty" for that perp if the mother (or baby) dies as a result of being obliged to carry that baby to term and perishing from one or more of those medical conditions? Or sentencing enhancements if either Mother or baby survive the delivery but have some permanent medical impairment?

Again, I'm not saying that I'd condone an abortion after the fetus becomes "viable" as you suggest below. But at least in the embryo stage or perhaps even before that (i.e. a "morning after" pill or a D & C or something within 48 hours of the rape after evidence is gathererd).

Unless you believe that "life begins at conception."




Oddly enough, I'd probably not condone abortions for those reasons. First, I'm not sure how one could diagnose such maladies while "in utero" and before "viability," unless they can be detected by ultrasound or amniocentesis. And, by then, it's too late. Moreover, I've seen a lot of cases of International adoptions from China (the Youtube videos are all over the place), where US couples that want to adopt are encouraged to adopt Chinese children (mostly girls) that have "special needs." Most of them have Down Syndrome but there are others with severe mental of physical defects. Still, the parents adopt them, right and left. I salute them. I guess it doesn't happen as much from China anymore as they've relaxed the "one child" policy as well as our new "strained" relationship with them (less likely to approve US parents for adoption of Chinese children).

But I wouldn't have a problem with a pregnancy (or suspected pregnancy) as a result of rape/incest that it terminated within a very short time after the event (48-72hrs).

In the rape scenario I would support whatever the victim or, in the case of the victim’s death, the victim’s family wanted.

I do believe life begins at conception. If allowed to run its natural course, the clump of fertilized cells inside a woman will develop and grow into a human being. I also don’t believe that punishing a baby with death is appropriate in a case of rape. Take your frustrations out on the offender, not the innocent baby

I know finding any serious birth defects is difficult but if there’s any way to find out really early I could understand a family making this decision, but even that is hard.

My wife and I know a family that have adopted a few boys from China with disabilities. One is blind and both(I think) have hemophilia.

 

[theLBC]

some whores have has a dozen or more abortions.
if abortion wasn't available and free (in some places), i doubt very much they would have dozens of babies.
again i think the idea is not to provide murder of babies as an alternative to birth control, and thus reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and not to force women to have babies they don't want.

 

[Fx51LP308]

In the rape scenario I would support whatever the victim or, in the case of the victim’s death, the victim’s family wanted.

If the "victim" were one of my family (a potential wife or child... I'm not married ) I'd definitely want the death penalty imposed.

I do believe life begins at conception. If allowed to run its natural course, the clump of fertilized cells inside a woman will develop and grow into a human being. I also don’t believe that punishing a baby with death is appropriate in a case of rape. Take your frustrations out on the offender, not the innocent baby

Very True. But I might also claim the right to "take my frustrations out" on the people that "forced" my fictional wife/daughter to carry the baby to term and accept those risks of pregnancy. Be they legislators that passed laws or community leaders or whatever. I know... a little far fetched, but that's what I'd feel. If there were some legislator or judge or whatever that ordered my family member to carry that baby because it had a "right to life," and it resulted in the death of my family member from medical complications, I'd sue the crap out of that legislator, etc. that imposed that law or order. They're just as responsible as the perp, AFAIC. Perhaps, even more so, as the perp is not requiring my family member to carry the baby, even though they're the biological father.

 

[theLBC]

In the rape scenario I would support whatever the victim or, in the case of the victim’s death, the victim’s family wanted.

I do believe life begins at conception. If allowed to run its natural course, the clump of fertilized cells inside a woman will develop and grow into a human being. I also don’t believe that punishing a baby with death is appropriate in a case of rape. Take your frustrations out on the offender, not the innocent baby

I know finding any serious birth defects is difficult but if there’s any way to find out really early I could understand a family making this decision, but even that is hard.

My wife and I know a family that have adopted a few boys from China with disabilities. One is blind and both(I think) have hemophilia.

 

[quietmike]

The problem with the rape exception is that then every unwanted pregnancy is due to rape.

In Coker v Georgia scotus ruled that executing someone convicted of rape was a violation of the 8th. They expanded that to incest in Kennedy v Louisiana, a particularly brutal case.

If we can't killl the ones who commit those crimes, how does it make sense to kill an innocent third party to the crime?