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Is cleaning primer pocket really needed?

A) Where is the objective evidence?
B) To whom does it matter? To a benchrester? Hunter? Service Rifle competitor? Police marksman? Military sniper?


So?

So long as the primer doesn't move when the pin hits it, ignition will be the same.
I’ll dig around and see if I can find data.

But, any that I have read or discussed with people is that it’s only noticeable for disciplines like BR and 1k F class where they have the equipment and rifles to see/exploit the difference.

We are talking tiny differences and for probably 99% of shooters on this site, not applicable.
 
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Imitial case sizing/trimming is a fucking joy for me using an S1050, dedicated tool head with Rapid Trim. I process a couple years shooting in no time with hardly any effort.

what comes immediatly after is the absolute worst - deburr and chamfer. I do that on one of those horizontal Hornady case prep tools.....by hand, one at a time, 2-3 seconds on the inside chamfer, 2-3 seconds on the exterior debur, than because its there I flip the case and give it 2-3 seconds on the pocket scraper.....sucks is an understatement.

Dont even know if its worth it.

The Dillon cuts extremely clean and square. Perhaps it could leave something that cuts the bullet jacket when seating.

Thing is I use a neck mandrel before my brass rains from the processing tool head into the completion bucket.

Someone tell me that use of the neck mandrel eliminates the need to chamfer/debur even if it is a lie.

Thing is my OCD will have me continue to do it because when done that brass looks so nice with the finished interior/exterior neck work and the little pile of carbon I produce tells me I cleaned some shit out of the primer pockets.
 
If you don't trim every time, you don't need to chamfer and debur all the time. If you keep pressure reasonable and shoulder bump to a minimum, it takes a long time for brass to grow. Get a tool to measure the actual trim length for your chamber. The brass for my 280 is on 7 and hasn't been trimmed yet. It is about .005 over sami max trim now, but still well short of the chambers max trim length.
 
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If you don't trim every time, you don't need to chamfer and debur all the time. If you keep pressure reasonable and shoulder bump to a minimum, it takes a long time for brass to grow. Get a tool to measure the actual trim length for your chamber. The brass for my 280 is on 7 and hasn't been trimmed yet. It is about .005 over sami max trim now, but still well short of the chambers max trim length.


Trimming is a little off the OPs topic but still connected as part of the brass processing chore.

Beauty of the rapid trim is I set it at SAAMI length pretty much. When I process brass for a second time the cutter either does its job as needed or it doesnt.

I suppose I could look at each case and identify shiny cuts for additional debur/chamfer. Till now I just kind of hit them all for uniformity purposes.
 
You could also take the trimmer off negating your need to chamfer and debur every time. Uniform trim length is not going to make a discernible difference.
 
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I’ll dig around and see if I can find data.

But, any that I have read or discussed with people is that it’s only noticeable for disciplines like BR and 1k F class where they have the equipment and rifles to see/exploit the difference.

We are talking tiny differences and for probably 99% of shooters on this site, not applicable.
Plenty of that data on Accurate Shooter you are correct that cleaning primer pockets when all you do is shoot steel isn't necessary but when you shoot for groups or f class that clean primer pocket might be the difference between winning and loosing
 
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Someone tell me that use of the neck mandrel eliminates the need to chamfer/debur even if it is a lie.
The mandrel won't eliminate the need to deburr the outside edge of the mouth.

A neck mandrel might burnish down the inside burr enough (depends on how thick the burr is) but it won't put a chamfer on the edge.

I wouldn't stop chamfering/deburring. But I'd stop wasting time on primer pockets.
 
Imitial case sizing/trimming is a fucking joy for me using an S1050, dedicated tool head with Rapid Trim. I process a couple years shooting in no time with hardly any effort.

what comes immediatly after is the absolute worst - deburr and chamfer. I do that on one of those horizontal Hornady case prep tools.....by hand, one at a time, 2-3 seconds on the inside chamfer, 2-3 seconds on the exterior debur, than because its there I flip the case and give it 2-3 seconds on the pocket scraper.....sucks is an understatement.

Dont even know if its worth it.

The Dillon cuts extremely clean and square. Perhaps it could leave something that cuts the bullet jacket when seating.

Thing is I use a neck mandrel before my brass rains from the processing tool head into the completion bucket.

Someone tell me that use of the neck mandrel eliminates the need to chamfer/debur even if it is a lie.

Thing is my OCD will have me continue to do it because when done that brass looks so nice with the finished interior/exterior neck work and the little pile of carbon I produce tells me I cleaned some shit out of the primer pockets.
Try swapping a pocket uniformer instead of the cleaner tool.
It cleans quicker I belive and cuts good square pockets to a standard depth .

I was running a small 100 rd batch of test ammo and decided to hand prime in front of the idiot box.

So smooth and could feel every one seat with same (felt) pressure, no forcing any of them.

In my opinion the pocket cleaner tool is a waste because it does not get the corner square, to a uniform depth and takes too long.

I started swage, ream, and uniforming pockets because my dillon would hang up ocassionally now it doesn't.

At the same time I added the mandrell step, basically it took .125 + out of my plinker groups.

That's with sorted / culled range brass and plinker priced bullets.

The new load is H335 and 27.4 was best. I will bracket that in 0.1gr incraments today and then seating depth test.

Then the dillon will get reset to run the rest of the 1000 bullets left.

First time with H335 and 223 so far have not beaten the 223cfe 1.125 loads with my cheap ass barrels.
 
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Try swapping a pocket uniformer instead of the cleaner tool.
It cleans quicker I belive and cuts good square pockets to a standard depth .

I was running a small 100 rd batch of test ammo and decided to hand prime in front of the idiot box.

So smooth and could feel every one seat with same (felt) pressure, no forcing any of them.

In my opinion the pocket cleaner tool is a waste because it does not get the corner square, to a uniform depth and takes too long.

I started swage, ream, and uniforming pockets because my dillon would hang up ocassionally now it doesn't.

At the same time I added the mandrell step, basically it took .125 + out of my plinker groups.

That's with sorted / culled range brass and plinker priced bullets.

The new load is H335 and 27.4 was best. I will bracket that in 0.1gr incraments today and then seating depth test.

Then the dillon will get reset to run the rest of the 1000 bullets left.

First time with H335 and 223 so far have not beaten the 223cfe 1.125 loads with my cheap ass barrels.


Not that there is any to be had but ARComp and 8208XBR have been great with 77s. 8208 being my goto.

Got a ton of 55s Im going to load up about 7 lbs of 223CFE under for plinking.

The S1050 swage is usually pretty good but it is sensitive to case head stamps and I have had my share of unloading the plate when things dont feel right.

Thing is though I love my decap in position 1 for removing cob.....not going to go to a 4 step operation.
 
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Those case headstamps that cause the dillon hangups were giving me hell.

Some do not have a good champher / lead in even some without a crimp. The swager gets used on those to get that little champher.

On crimped brass the pockets get swaged and reamed because the dillon was shaving slivers off and hanging up.

Sounds dammed redundant but no more stopages on the dillon is worth it to me
 
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I can. I competed in High Power for years with an M1A exclusively. Never once have I had a slam fire and I don't waste time cleaning primer pockets.

I've even intentionally left a corn or walnut kernel in the flash hole and chronographed it against one with a clear flash hole in my Defiance 6.5 Creedmoor. There was not enough difference to matter.
Like you I shot Highpower since the 70’s. l’ve seen more than one M-1 and M-1A slam fire.
 
Another thing many reloaders don't realize, is that if you wet tumble your brass with Stainless Steel media, your primer pockets and flash holes, along with the inside of your cases will come out spotless. You don't have to, "Fuck with them".
 
I can’t answer the question on whether it’s “needed” but there’s been a few studies on primer seating depth and accuracy. Can’t say I’ve tested that and might some day if I get into F class.

For me I wet tumble and my cases are relatively clean before sizing but I use lanolin for lube and then use walnut media to remove it. Here’s a picture of the 100 cases I cleaned this morning. I wouldn’t worry about the carbon that comes off but I use this step to check flash holes and 22 had media in them (22% is high for what I normally see). Not sure that would make a difference but I prefer to have them unobstructed for peace of mind.

B944836D-00B3-4DAA-8E1F-BEF7DFF1E772.jpeg
 
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I find that I can shoot the difference between a thousandth of an inch variance in primer seating depth. When I don't clean the pockets, I'll see a depth ES of about 0.003 or more. When I clean them, that will drop to 1.5-2 thousandths. When I uniform them, I can keep ES under a thousandth, and SD's will run down into the 3-6 ten thousandths area... which becomes difficult to even measure reliably.

Over the years, I've demonstrated that primer seating depth is very closely tied to ignition reliability. Not just in the "does it go bang" category, but the finer more nuanced side of ignition which can have a monumental affect on accuracy. If you have a finely tuned ignition system in your rifle, you can certainly see the effects of primer seating depth with a minimum of testing. If your ignition system is not tuned, then primer seating depth may not make a singular bit of difference. So it's important to understand the goals of the shooter before saying its something that should be done. If you're running quality equipment and a quality rifle, you can avoid doing most things on the loading bench, and still be able to hold half MOA precision or close to it. That'll produce a typical real world accuracy of sub-MOA. If you want to be able to hit a half inch dot at 100yds every time you press the trigger, you'll need to do quite a lot of things. Taking care of primer pockets and being able to consistently position primers is certainly one of those things.

This whole conversation relies on an understanding that OK performance is relatively easy to get these days. Most shooters are quite happy there. It requires very little effort and time. However, the more you try to push into shooting small... the more problems you discover with your process which require solutions. We have many of those solutions these days with all the new equipment becoming available. The smaller you try to shoot, the more the entire ecosystem matters. Over time, you'll discover which operations and equipment stations are holding you back. Solving the problem at each station carries with it a financial commitment and a time commitment. Usually if you pay more, you can buy time. You can also buy ease of use and an improved overall experience.

Yet regardless of what you decide, every operation demands uniformity. You don't get to decide to have maximum accuracy and precision, and simultaneously get to decide to leave out various uniform operations. Each little op might not mean much individually, but in the aggregate... can add up to be very substantial. That right there is how you get from being a consistent half MOA shooter, to being a consistent quarter MOA shooter. Its the aggregate, when the sum total of all effort an expense is added. You find where the process or equipment is weak, and you press your will against it until it isn't anymore. Through the cooperation of the precision rifle community, mostly it is just not that difficult anymore. We have great tools to cover most ops.

I would submit that to answer this main question of the thread, you must know who you are as a shooter and what your goals are. You might be performing well enough to not care about most things. However, life starts getting complicated and often expensive when you try to improve your performance or at least your experience when doing various tasks. The part about shooting I enjoy most, is the availability of improvement. There is always something for me to chase and always some delta I've not yet reached. The pursuit keeps me challenged and fulfilled.

I don't obsess about every rifle I own. Though there are a few that get the full treatment. No stone is left unturned.
 
I have the little stainless RCBS primer pocket brush... I chuck it in the lathe and clean the carbon crud out before the brass gets tumbled. Takes me 5 minutes or so to do 50.

Does it change anything? I don't know, I doubt it. Hell, for all I know it makes things worse. But try as I may, I can't leave it alone.

I should probably consider therapy. Lol.

Mike
 
The first step is realizing you can't control it.
I have the little stainless RCBS primer pocket brush... I chuck it in the lathe and clean the carbon crud out before the brass gets tumbled. Takes me 5 minutes or so to do 50.

Does it change anything? I don't know, I doubt it. Hell, for all I know it makes things worse. But try as I may, I can't leave it alone.

I should probably consider therapy. Lol.

Mike
Hi I'm halfnutz and I clean (uniform) primer pockets.
 
When components become unavailable for your favorite range toy you may be playing with what is available.

Since I have 5 gallon buckets full of 223 cleaned range brass and can not get 6.5g brass guess what happened.

I started to prep the 223 brass like it was going to church. Including OCD on the primer pocket and mandrell.

1/8 to 1/4 inch came off my groups with different bullets and loads.

The thing is it made ocw testing more precise / decernable.

I'm to the point now that the scope's retical is too thick for best results so much as I hate it the bigger scope may come off the 6.5g to keep things rolling.

I think @orkan is right.

It all ads up and shows results even in my modest equipment.
 
What is the consensus of the best uniforming tool?
 
I have to start taking some measurements I think mine might be on the shy side of tolerance.

I suggest not wearing gloves on a drill press. If a glove gets sucked up it can mangle fingers before you can turn it off.

I use a strait cordless screwdriver to run pocket tools so I can sit in front of the idiot box and do several hundred at a time.

It runs them a little slow but they come out nice.
 
Snuby is correct... Skip the gloves with a drill press.

Back when I was a young, dumb, inexperienced hand in a job shop I had a band-aid on my fingertip and got a little close to a 1/8" drill bit... Snatched the band-aid off before I could blink. No harm done but I think I aged about 5 years in a second.

Mike
 
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Back in the day this very same topic would have had two replies.
 
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Crazy stuff. I just ran an OCW and shot a random charge weight {chose 45g} ten shot string across my chromo, in my 280 brass that has not been trimmed or had the pockets cleaned in 7 firings. It was annealed before its last firing for the first time, SD for 10 shots @45g Varget with 139 Hornady SPBT was 8. OCW was easy read, and no shots in the OCw landed more 3/4" apart. Same story for many runs of many different cases. With repeatable accuracy, low SDs and low vertical dispersions at range. ITs not something I am going to start worrying about. Its your weiner though, you can spend as much time washing it as you want.
 
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A clean primer pocket simply takes away yet another variable in reloading, of which there are many. Lack of variables directly lead to more consistency..... Consistency in ignition. As well as consistency in accuracy. Only you can judge if it's worth it for you. Dirt and crap are extremely inconsistent as to where and how much they accumulate.
 
TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch).

I'm one of those worshipers of physics, and of the simple fact that anything we do has an effect, be it measurable or not. The place where this begins to count is when we talk about tolerance stacking. Put enough of them together, and you get to see it on the target. I don't always agree with anyone; but in this, Orkan is right.

I've spent decades trying to identify and standardize on what counts and what doesn't when handloading, with the goal being ultimate simplicity. Repeating myself yet again, handloading is a necessary evil. We need ammo so we can shoot, and then we need it to be accurate so we don't go wasting the effort involved when we do. I can tolerate missing, but what I can't tolerate is doing that when it's easily avoidable.

I resize/decap on the RL550b, then take out the case and run it through my Little Crow Case Trimmer, and the RCBS Case Prep Center, set up with debur/chamfer, pocket uniformer/pocket cleaning brush, then back to the RL550b to prime the case and finish off the rest of the steps. I matters little to me whether each and every step is truly necessary, it matters more that the sequence is uniform and consistent. IMHO, Consistency equals accuracy; and for me, that's a necessity. Do it right, do it right every time.

Some here don't handload, some of their names might even surprise you. It shouldn't; they've made a personal choice to value time and effort over money, and for them, it's a good choice. I don't shoot as much these days, so my handloading burden isn't a heavy one. I have more time to do it right and that time isn't long enough to drive me bonkers with the repetition.

Others may see it different, and who's to say that they're wrong. I won't.

Greg
 
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Using an inside flash hole chamfer tool also helps establish consistent ignition. You only have to use it once for the life of the case. Most flash holes are hot punched, not drilled. (Lapua brass is the exception, and even they leave a burr). This punching process leaves large burrs on the inside of the flash hole. By removing them, and at the same time putting a small chamfer on the inside of the case, you can't help but improve ignition consistency. Especially with hard to light, slow burning Magnum rifle powders.
 
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Using an inside flash hole chamfer tool also helps establish consistent ignition. You only have to use it once for the life of the case. Most flash holes are hot punched, not drilled. (Lapua brass is the exception, and even they leave a burr). This punching process leaves large burrs on the inside of the flash hole. By removing them, and at the same time putting a small chamfer on the inside of the case, you can't help but improve ignition consistency. Especially with hard to light, slow burning Magnum rifle powders.
Have you looked at flash holes with a bore scope? I have. They all look fine, from Hornady to Lapua. Have yet to see a burr.
 
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There is a great argument.

Bore scope every piece of brass to see if it needs a debur on the inside to save time reloading and reduce useless steps.

I run about 2-3 per hundred that I can feel a bur in and sometimes a pain to get out.

Some of the cheaper brands are worse and some few are ever found.

We should commission a "I bore scope my brass" T-shirt.
 
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There is a great argument.

Bore scope every piece of brass to see if it needs a debur on the inside to save time reloading and reduce useless steps.

I run about 2-3 per hundred that I can feel a bur in and sometimes a pain to get out.

Some of the cheaper brands are worse and some few are ever found.

We should commission a "I bore scope my brass" T-shirt.
I’m not scoping every piece. If all the ones I look at are OK then I am assuming the rest probably are too. Similar to cleaning, if you aren’t looking then you have no idea what your process is addressing. But it’s a free country, do whatever you like.
 
I can see the flash holes with my magnification app on my phone.

If you learn to use your tools you can feel if there is a bur and feel when it's gone.

If batch checked ammo is sufficient for your porpose you could just use factory stuff.
 
I can see the flash holes with my magnification app on my phone.

If you learn to use your tools you can feel if there is a bur and feel when it's gone.

If batch checked ammo is sufficient for your porpose you could just use factory stuff.
You are feeling the tool cutting brass. It is always going to do that because the shape of the cutting surface isn’t the same as the normal flash hole.

I don’t know anyone who reloads specifically because they are worried about their flash hole quality. I would think such a person would not be mentally competent to own firearms. Personally I reload because I can use higher quality components, weigh charges and such. To be honest, if I could buy high quality ammo in the cartridges I shoot, I think that would be preferable as I’m not shooting benchrest, but this is off topic.
 
You obviously never cleaned out a flash hole with a bur in it.

You have no idea of what it feels like when an actual bur is encountered.

It takes 2- 3 seconds to feel no defect and toss brass in the good pile.

It can take more than a minute to get an actual bur out.

You admitted never seeing one so don't suppose your opinion is based on experience.
 
Our mod @Dthomas3523 is looking for quantitative data. Will be a hard time proving a point one way or another.

You would have to identify and save up a batch of burred brass.

A .050 to .100 thousands long .050 wide shard of twisted brass that some how gets folded back over the flash hole could be cause of a flier due to ignition problems.

A flash hole clear of obstructions and no chunks floating around in the brass is a way for the check list of possibilities to shrink as to performance.

Controll what you can with what you have.
 
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I think this is just another one of those cans that keeps getting kicked down the road... just like barrel break-in, and bullets "going to sleep"...

If you can't seat primers relatively the same way, every time, and relatively to the same depth, every time... but it looks like it's because your primer pockets are really dirty and cleaning them might help: then yes, clean them (and shame on you, because you shouldn't let them get like that in the first place).

Otherwise: nope.

Like everything else in reloading, you want to get as close as you can to delivering the same exact product (finished round) over and over, same as last time, and the time before that, just like next time, and the time after that, etc.

You want your cases to be in as close to the same exact state of either the "same level of clean" or "same level of dirty" (depending how one looks at it) you can manage at the start of each and every loading cycle. So getting your cases into that same consistent state does matter, but if you're doing that, the primer pockets take care of themselves.

Remember: getting a low SD is easy, just make the same exact round every time. That's all it ever is.
 
I clean mine because of the piece of junk that allowed my primer not to fit right and had some blowback.
 
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Have you looked at flash holes with a bore scope? I have. They all look fine, from Hornady to Lapua. Have yet to see a burr.

Then you're not looking hard enough. I've seen plenty of them. Look for yourself. You cannot punch a hole, (or even drill one for that matter), through any metal, without leaving a burr when the drill comes out the other side. This is Machine Shop 101 stuff.

Also, by utilizing a Flash Hole Uniforming Tool, you create a slight chamfer on THE INSIDE of the case, which is very desirable in helping the primer flame in contacting the powder. Do you "have to do it"? No. Does it help in making more consistent handloads? Yes.



Which do you think is more desirable?

 
Great pictures there @billt!

It's difficult for most people to properly assign value to an op like that. That one thing by itself generally won't take someone from 1/2moa to 1/4moa. Though that one thing, combined with several other things... can certainly do it. Most folks just can't justify that when they see half moa and do not press any further into load dev.

It's important for the people that choose to do it, to realize that not everyone wants to spend that kind of time or effort. It's also important for those that choose not to do it, to realize that some people are looking for more performance than they are, and more uniformity of components does indeed provide it.
 
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Where we get off in the weeds is people thinking this kind of brass prep is going to turn a 1 MOA gun into a real bug hole shooter. These are measure to optimize an extremely high performance system. Drag slicks aint making mamas Honda Accord run the 1/4 mile faster.
 
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by utilizing a Flash Hole Uniforming Tool, you create a slight chamfer on THE INSIDE of the case, which is very desirable in helping the primer flame in contacting the powder.
Do you have any data supporting this? There is a common tendency in reloading discussions for people to assume that added steps bring added value, but that's not always the case. In my own field there are countless examples of times when people thought an intervention would have a certain effect, but were wrong when they tested it rigorously.
 
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I think a lot people underestimate how powerful a primer is. Go armor up put on some safety glasses and smash one on the floor with hammer. If you do it a second time. I bet ear plugs will cross your mind. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Then you're not looking hard enough. I've seen plenty of them. Look for yourself. You cannot punch a hole, (or even drill one for that matter), through any metal, without leaving a burr when the drill comes out the other side. This is Machine Shop 101 stuff.

Also, by utilizing a Flash Hole Uniforming Tool, you create a slight chamfer on THE INSIDE of the case, which is very desirable in helping the primer flame in contacting the powder. Do you "have to do it"? No. Does it help in making more consistent handloads? Yes.



Which do you think is more desirable?


Good picture, I wish I had one showing the long flat shards that some times are found.

Some people scoff at using a 15$ tool that will never be worn out and only needs done one time and turn around to spend 600$ and more to throw powder to the last kernel.

Your either OCD or not, pick a side.
 
Where we get off in the weeds is people thinking this kind of brass prep is going to turn a 1 MOA gun into a real bug hole shooter. These are measure to optimize an extremely high performance system. Drag slicks aint making mamas Honda Accord run the 1/4 mile faster.

True.
But that fart can muffler will...🤣🤣
 
I think a lot people underestimate how powerful a primer is. Go armor up put on some safety glasses and smash one on the floor with hammer. If you do it a second time. I bet ear plugs will cross your mind. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Wax pistol bullets powered by just a primer come to mind.
Fun and noisy basement shooting.
 
Do you have any data supporting this? There is a common tendency in reloading discussions for people to assume that added steps bring added value, but that's not always the case. In my own field there are countless examples of times when people thought an intervention would have a certain effect, but were wrong when they tested it rigorously.
Testing is certainly the proper thing to do in every scenario.

A flash hole with an internal chamfer has produced a different final node in every instance I've tested it. Though with alpha and lapua cases, I haven't had to concern myself with it. Though it is on the list to revisit from a different set of variables.
 
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Do you have any data supporting this? There is a common tendency in reloading discussions for people to assume that added steps bring added value, but that's not always the case. In my own field there are countless examples of times when people thought an intervention would have a certain effect, but were wrong when they tested it rigorously.
Show me one benchrest shooter that doesn't do it. You won't find one. You don't need to balance and blueprint the engine on your Honda Civic to go grocery shopping. And you don't need to chamfer the inside of cases to shoot deer at 50 yards with your Wal-Mart $250.00 Savage. But if you are spending thousands of dollars on equipment, looking for an extra few MPH in a race, or trying to win a benchrest match, you do both.

You're looking for reasons not to do it. You don't have to. Just don't. But don't try to sell it as some type of wasted effort. If it was most every benchrest shooter wouldn't be doing it. Consistency is the key to accuracy. Burrs are not consistent. Chamfering is. It really is as simple as that.
 
This discussion has been beat to death. It has been stated by several that you should do it because you can. That is simply not true.

Orkan has it right, as usual. If you are in my position, where I typically have to push off work, sleep, or both in order to load for a match then the 2 seconds per case absolutely matters. I am shooting steel. I have found that my very simple process with good components in a quality rifle will produce the typical 3/8 moa and on occasion, even 1/4 moa. The simpler I make the process, and the more trigger time I get, the better I place. When I get to the level where shooting 1/4 moa vs 3/8-1/2moa will make a difference that I am concerned about, I might change my process. I do not see that happening unless I make enough money to retire and become a professional kick-off, or run out of work. Both seem to be a long, long ways off.

What people are discussing is does it make a difference? Well yes, and no. If I simply clean the shit out of my primer pockets, I KNOW I won't see a noticeable difference for steel shooting. I used to clean them and decided it was a waste of time. If I neck turn, pocket uniform, flashhole uniform and debur, while making my chamfered and debur process more accurate and separating cases by volume, I will likely see a measurable difference. The reality is that when the smallest target I see in a match is half moa, and they typically let me shoot 3 or 4 targets right before it to figure out the conditions, I don't need a 1/8 moa or even a 1/4 moa gun to hit that target.

Orkan's profession is tied to shooting and the pursuit of better shooting and more knowledge. It makes sense for him to experiment with this stuff and share his findings with his customers. It also makes sense that other shooting disciplines would put more stock in it.

It doesn't matter the discipline, more accurate guns shoot better scores with the same shooter. There is simply a point for most people where the time to develop marksmanship skills should not be traded for time at the reloading bench. Especially in the practical shooting disciplines.
 
Nothing but lame excuses to skip a small time factor prep.

You can always wonder if a poorly functioning primer kept you from the prize table.

Sweet dreams.
 
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Nothing but lame excuses to skip a small time factor prep.

You can always wonder if a poorly functioning primer kept you from the prize table.

Sweet dreams.
You should also wonder if what you are doing is making things worse, or simply useless and taking you away from more important tasks, either shooting or not.
 
Nothing but lame excuses to skip a small time factor prep.

You can always wonder if a poorly functioning primer kept you from the prize table.

Sweet dreams.
I let kids or ro's walk the prize table in my place. I have all the shit I need. If I want something else, I work hard to buy it. The prize tables were meant to advance the sport, not be a goddamn payday. I don't sweat the prize table.

Also, trading primer pocket cleaning for dryfiring or shooting will move me a lot further up the ranks. At 5 second per round that is over 4 hours per year wasted when loading match ammo for me and the wife. If we include practice ammo, the time investment is even longer.

Also, I have a job to do and 2 kids to raise. I do not have limitless time to pursue reloading and shooting. If you want to clean pockets, I'm not stopping you, but let's be realistic about the benefits. This sport is mostly mental, and you clearly need to have shiny brass to keep your shit straight. More power to you. Just don't try to convince others with limited time to waste it.

You quote "lame excuses." Time with family, time working, and time shooting are great excuses not to waste hours on something that will gain me 2 points per season, if that. This is a pastime for me, not a career.
 
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