Yeah the old ones are like a casting reel on a fishing pole and the new ones have the same thunking noise as the TT turrets.
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Is it worth it to upgrade to a ZCO or TT
- Thread starter Bigrederic
- Start date
They’re very precise. I liked the sample I tried very much.
I have a bunch of S&B 5-25s and several TT 5-25s as well as a few premier 5-25s and a minox ZP5 5-25.
Every now and then I think about selling my s&bs and premiers and the minox and switching to all TT's just so everything matches.
But then I realize that would be a lot of money spent for what are IMO minimal gains as we're past the point of diminishing returns in terms of scope price. Yes, the s&bs are an older design that have tunneling at 5-7x and the dt turrets are fine graduation and a bit hard to read, but mine have all been dead reliable and the glass is still very good all these years later, and they do 10m parallax.
The TT's are certainly great and have amazing toolless turrets that are more positive and easier to read than the s&b with the dt turrets, and the parallax and depth of field on the TTs is also more forgiving than the s&b's, but the s&b's are still good in terms of depth of field and nowhere near as picky as say some of the March scopes. I've yet to encounter a situation where I felt one of my 5-25 s&b's was preventing me from making a shot that a TT would let me make. Is it easier to dial incorrectly on the dt elevation knob on the s&b because the clicks are so fine and kind of tough to see? Yes, and for that reason it isn't ideal for use under time constraints. I haven't used the new dt2 turrets yet, but they look great.
I still need to buy a ZCO to play with, but I'm not a fan of how thick the reticles are, I wish they were .03 to .025 mil thick instead.
Every time I think about dumping all my S&B/Premier/Minox and going TT I stop and think that it isn't going to make my shooting any better, and for what that would cost I cound fund probably 2 new complete rifle builds.
And now I'm going to go back to the PX and think about buying yet another TT 5-25, lol
Every now and then I think about selling my s&bs and premiers and the minox and switching to all TT's just so everything matches.
But then I realize that would be a lot of money spent for what are IMO minimal gains as we're past the point of diminishing returns in terms of scope price. Yes, the s&bs are an older design that have tunneling at 5-7x and the dt turrets are fine graduation and a bit hard to read, but mine have all been dead reliable and the glass is still very good all these years later, and they do 10m parallax.
The TT's are certainly great and have amazing toolless turrets that are more positive and easier to read than the s&b with the dt turrets, and the parallax and depth of field on the TTs is also more forgiving than the s&b's, but the s&b's are still good in terms of depth of field and nowhere near as picky as say some of the March scopes. I've yet to encounter a situation where I felt one of my 5-25 s&b's was preventing me from making a shot that a TT would let me make. Is it easier to dial incorrectly on the dt elevation knob on the s&b because the clicks are so fine and kind of tough to see? Yes, and for that reason it isn't ideal for use under time constraints. I haven't used the new dt2 turrets yet, but they look great.
I still need to buy a ZCO to play with, but I'm not a fan of how thick the reticles are, I wish they were .03 to .025 mil thick instead.
Every time I think about dumping all my S&B/Premier/Minox and going TT I stop and think that it isn't going to make my shooting any better, and for what that would cost I cound fund probably 2 new complete rifle builds.
And now I'm going to go back to the PX and think about buying yet another TT 5-25, lol
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Why oh why didn't TT put big numbers on the new 7-35 turrets (God only knows they got enough space on those manhandle knobs), maybe everyone who works there is 40 years old and under...
Major improvement over the old DT turret feel
ETA: I liked the DT2+ better than the ZCO I had
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Major drawback but I assume that they didn't want to be accused of stealing from ZCO
I'll have to try one if I ever get the chance...maybe before my TacOPS comes in
I got one of the new ones with the KMW stock. I will be last since I am LH. I think it’s called a KM-1
I hope to but I am not thinking about it since it probably will be a while. Trying to figure on the scope right now
Buy em all sell what you don’t like. I have the new ZCO on order to try the 10M turret because you know how I feel about the standard turrets. The DT+ Schmidts are nice; competitive with Theta just different feeling. Schmidt prices though
.Frank will say pick the reticle that works for you.
I wish I were young and foolish with my money. If I made what you do, I would do the same
I will say man, the TTs and S&Bs look at home on TacOps guns. Specifically the Coyote ones in terms of the TT.
My TT will be going on a TacOps. Hopefully have the rifle in a couple months
Curious to hear your thoughts on the ZCO 10 mil turrets... keep us updated.Buy em all sell what you don’t like. I have the new ZCO on order to try the 10M turret because you know how I feel about the standard turrets. The DT+ Schmidts are nice; competitive with Theta just different feeling. Schmidt prices though
Frank will say pick the reticle that works for you.
Multiple people that were at Shot said they are going to give TT a run for their money in tactile feel.
@rydah
I know, but claims like this have been made before that didn't quite pan out... I trust TheOE
I know, but claims like this have been made before that didn't quite pan out... I trust TheOE
It’s not like we are talking theoretical of vapor ware, it was on display for thousands of people already. - Richard
I am another who prefers the dtii+ turrets over zco and TT turrets.
You’re on your own with the last part bro, TT still the best turrets!
Meh best zero system maybe... Mtc on and off? Oh that's right you don't have it
Perhaps I’m reading it wrong but dimension H on the reticle diagram should be line thickness and it’s .03 mil.
Am I mistaken?
I’m not willing to pay to find out if I like MTC or even want to be able to toggle it. The pre-DT+ turret reviews point out MTC sucking a lot.
Made a quick video. The MTC probably sucked on the last gen turrets because of the casting reel effect in between the solid numbers. Easy to overshoot when you hit a hard stop.
It's .034 mils, dimension A.
Not bad, but thicker than I'd prefer.
I'll still probably pick one up to try at some point.
Same reason I don't own more than the one minox mr4 5-25; really nice scopes and great prices especially used, but the reticles are thicker than I prefer.
Schmidt prices though
They've recently adjusted their prices upwards to be considered for the coveted title of "The official scope of Defiance Machine."
We'll see if S&B pulls a repeat of 5ish years ago when they jacked their prices way up for 6 months or so and then dropped them back down to what they were before the increase.
I'd like to try one of the new 6-36s with the DTII+ turrets, but probably not at the prices they're asking... scope prices are getting out of hand IMO, and it's not just S&B that's guilty. While Hensoldt was probably the first with "stupid pricing" starting 10ish years ago I think TT really tested the upper threshold of the market for the mainstream buyer, and when other manufacturers saw they were actually selling scopes at those prices they thought "hey, we should try that too" -- and here we are.
Not saying these scopes at the top of the market aren't nice... they are. It just seems every year the prices get higher and higher without a huge leap in capabilities... at least that's what the logical part of my brain says. The illogical part of my brain is telling me to place an order for a 10 mil NLE ZCO 5-27 and also a TT 7-35 just to do a side by side comparison.
Oh I’ll be able to do that, too. Join me.place an order for a 10 mil NLE ZCO 5-27 and also a TT 7-35 just to do a side by side comparison.
I probably will... eventually.
The ZCO is a known quantity at this point, but I'm going to wait until the reports come in on the TT 7-35. I'm also disappointed they probably aren't going to be offering the Gen2XR in the 7-35, but I think I could live with the Gen3XR fine; not really a fan of the JTAC which I think is also one of the initial offerings. I also have some concerns (which are probably unfounded) about how the depth of field and parallax sensitivity on the 7-35 is going to be when they add an additional 10x of top end magnification into a physically shorter scope tube. One of the nicest things about the Premier/Minox/TT 5-25 design is the extremely forgiving depth of field and parallax adjustments, but packing more mag into a physically shorter scope tube has me wondering if the parallax and depth of field of the 7-35 is going to end up more on the picky side like some of the March scopes.
I'm hoping our respected members do a side by side with the new ZCO 5-27, TT 7-35 and S&B 6-36. I have to admit that I do hope the best for S&B. I have two of them and although dated, they still are pretty flawless in their ability to consistently align POA with POI at whatever distance
I would say that which is the, cost aside, better optic is and always will be up for debate...that said with these new S&B prices the ZCO is, to me, clearly the better buy at $1-2k less. I bought my PMII US 3-20 with DTII+ turrets right before the price hike. Absolutelty phenomenal optic...but if I were to spend that money right now with current prices, I'll take the ZCO420.
Edit: to me, it's not worth the time and money lost either to sell the S&B and pick up a ZCO.
Edit: to me, it's not worth the time and money lost either to sell the S&B and pick up a ZCO.
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I don't think it's an age thing. I'm young-ish, have 20/15 vision, and pretty much every turret out there would be better with bigger/bolder numbering. ZCO is pretty good, the NF zerohold on the 4-16 is pretty good. Most are not.
I think leupold is on the right path with their Mk5. Their “normal” turret has numerical references for multiple revolutions, but their “competition” turret has huge numbers for the first rev. I think little options like this will further separate scopes, and companies like ZCO and March seem prime to be able to offer these types of options to augment their “base model”.
Big numbers are awesome.
Attachments
Those could be far better, or at least different choices should be available in my opinion.
A few years ago, when it came to turret feel, TT was the only game in town. It forced other mfr's to up their game and now Schmidt has their DT II+ and March has their Shuriken lock - these are the two that come closest to TT with regard to "feel" IMO - positive "clunk" with very little play. Hopefully the new ZCO 10 mil turrets will be as good as they are rumored to be because the ZCO 15 mil turrets I would not mention with TT/Schmidt DT II+/March Shuriken (ZCO 15 is not bad by any stretch, but not at the same tier as these others IMO). TT does not have locking turret options (and many would argue they are not needed) but if locking mechanism is desired I prefer the Schmidt DT II+ and March Shuriken mechanism over the up/down mechanism type which has historically lent itself to "accidental" engagement, with the DT II+ and Shuriken locks it is very difficult for accidental engagement and one can leave them "off" and not worry about the lock feature at all.
In the end, we all make choices based on various perceived needs we have and sometimes it's the little things that push us one way or another. While I love the turret feel of the aforementioned scopes, I have not found a justifiable reason not to choose a "lesser" turreted scope if it offered other features that met my perceived needs. I've had TT, ZCO, Schmidt, March and many others and I've found more often than not the scopes that stick around longer are the ones with reticles I really like which is very much personal preference, but the reality is you have to look at that reticle every single time you use your scope which is why when people ask me "should I pick scope A or scope B" I will typically respond with an emphasis on reticle over other features.
In the end, we all make choices based on various perceived needs we have and sometimes it's the little things that push us one way or another. While I love the turret feel of the aforementioned scopes, I have not found a justifiable reason not to choose a "lesser" turreted scope if it offered other features that met my perceived needs. I've had TT, ZCO, Schmidt, March and many others and I've found more often than not the scopes that stick around longer are the ones with reticles I really like which is very much personal preference, but the reality is you have to look at that reticle every single time you use your scope which is why when people ask me "should I pick scope A or scope B" I will typically respond with an emphasis on reticle over other features.
That's why I've stuck with countersniper all these years, I don't have to settle for just one reticle in my scope... It has two, it's like having both scope A and scope B all in one package.
That and the bertrillium-zantitum multi coating which is without peer, but that's a subject deserving of its own thread.
Thank you for sharing this piece of... art
I am surprised no one from Hollywood has used that in any of their "realistic" movies about snipers 
I can hear Mark Wahlberg's voice saying "you aren't a real sniper unless you use counter sniper..." Maybe Alec Baldwin will use it in his upcoming movie entitled "How you can murder a Hollywood exec and get away with it when you're a woke Leftist". Sorry, not sure where that last one came in from, but couldn't help myself...
Meh, zcomps new turret is now king.I know, but claims like this have been made before that didn't quite pan out... I trust TheOE
But as usual people that have never used or seen it will continue to tell others they’re wrong.
What’s the new turret? The 10 mil NLE?
Well what he’s saying is that he did try the turrets out at Shot Show a few weeks ago and has tried many other turrets that’s been released. I didn’t make it to Shot but plenty of people I know directly were there to try them out.
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