I mean, this sort of lends weight to my theory. Maybe there is something with S&B glass or the coating they use that people who have some kind of eye condition/damage cause it to be brown or discolored for them.I'm 35 and have nothing wrong with my eyes, other than some image clarity degradation of sight picture in my right eye due to damage sustained from injury, when my eyes get strained...No cataracts. But every S&B scope I have looked through in the last 10+ years has had a yellow tint to it. Not a fan. Reminds me of looking through a 1980's Tasco...
Like I said, I've shot through Hensoldt's, and own Kahles & Zeiss scopes, and looked through Kowa spotters... I know what good glass looks like. But through my eyes, the S&B's look terrible. It's just my eyes I guess?
Rifle Scopes Is S&B really outdated trash?!?!
- Thread starter Nostradumbass
- Start date
I don't know man... I just know I have always had 20/20 or better vision (used to have 17/20 back in the day), but now It's probably 20/23 or so, due to the injury). I never have, nor do I need glasses or corrective lenses, so I have no idea. I do have extremely light blue eyes, and spent nearly 20 years as a welder and fabricator, so my retinas are about shot from bright lights, maybe that could have something to do with it? I have no idea.
I used to sell S&B and all the top brands 20 years ago, and S&B did NOT have that yellow tint back then. I don't know what they changed, but it's terrible. They need to find something better to use for glass tinting.
Sounds like your friends are abunch of jealous poors who can’t afford Schmidt and bender…..Hey boys,
I’m getting back into PRS and F-Class shooting after taking about a ten year break in any competition.
My three rifles I use for distance have Mil/Mil Schmidt Bender 5-25X56 optics; albeit with P4F reticles.
I’ve been told multiple times by shooters using Burris, Vortex, and Bushnell optics that S&B are outdated.
How can this be? Are there shooters now who really believe Asian market made optics are superior, or have I just been conversing with the “jUsT aS gOoDs?”
Thanks guys, and Happy New Year!
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..Although there are a lot of comparable or better choices now.
First it was brown and now yellow? I get that everyone’s eyes are different. It’s like when I use to do bourbon tastings and they would give you a tasting note card. You would then compare your notes to what the master distiller or expert tastes. The tasting notes were never the same other than I taste oak, caramel, etc. I saw some cards that were obvious BS and that always made me chuckle. Not everyone is going to ever agree but it’s safe to say that SB is far from trash. Maybe not the creme del la creme anymore but still good glass.
It's brownish-yellow... Sort of like a amber color.
Finally found it... Every S&B I've looked through has looked like this, but WITHOUT this filter added on it...
Amber See-Through Scope Cover for the Schmidt & Bender 1.1-8x24 PM II High Power | Black | Ocular | SDO000-ACV
This Amber See-Through Scope Cover is designed to fit the Schmidt & Bender line of 1.1-8x24 PM II High Power optics. Please note that this Tenebraex Scope Cover fits the Ocular side of the optic.
armament.com 
If that’s what you see then, you must have something going on with your eyes. Even crappiest Bushnell or Nikon from Academy doesn’t look like that.It's brownish-yellow... Sort of like a amber color.
Finally found it... Every S&B I've looked through has looked like this, but WITHOUT this filter added on it...
Amber See-Through Scope Cover for the Schmidt & Bender 1.1-8x24 PM II High Power | Black | Ocular | SDO000-ACV
This Amber See-Through Scope Cover is designed to fit the Schmidt & Bender line of 1.1-8x24 PM II High Power optics. Please note that this Tenebraex Scope Cover fits the Ocular side of the optic.
View attachment 7775103
I've had 5 5-25 Schmidt's and looked through countless others, not one has been brownish or yellow? Y'all just have bad eyes lmao
This pretty much sums up scopes in my opinion. 
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Not a damn thing wrong with my eyes... Maybe my eyes are so good, I just can't see through outdated things.
For the record, never once said they were trash, but I have thought for a long long time they're outdated.
Lol @ Vortex, Bushnell, and Burris poors talking shit about S&B.
and there are people who still believe if you get a running start you can jump of a 10 story building and fly .
I have had 7 S&B scopes I used in matches including 3 5-25s with the first being bought used in 2007. I liked them a lot. Never any brownish or yellowish tint. The tunneling stuff is BS as no one used them that low. I said it then and still believe it. The reticles were the only place they started slipping.
My SB 5-25 MSR has no problem keeping up w my Hens or TT in overall quality. TT may have better turrets, Hens may have a better eye box, the SB may tunnel on 5x but i would buy another SB 5-25. Find what works for you and don't follow the fads or marketing bullshit......
Jesus. Pitiful
Times are tough man. The guys at cabelas told me it was just as good as a tangent theta.
Well then go with that. It’s you, and a few others, not them. Stating that the glass is shit and how Arken is superior just looks bad.I'm 35 and have nothing wrong with my eyes, other than some image clarity degradation of sight picture in my right eye due to damage sustained from injury, when my eyes get strained...No cataracts. But every S&B scope I have looked through in the last 10+ years has had a yellow tint to it. Not a fan. Reminds me of looking through a 1980's Tasco...
Like I said, I've shot through Hensoldt's, and own Kahles & Zeiss scopes, and looked through Kowa spotters... I know what good glass looks like. But through my eyes, the S&B's look terrible. It's just my eyes I guess?
And calling people "poors" makes you look so much better... Yeah, I wouldn't attempt to occupy the moral high-ground on this one, because I don't go around mocking people in financial constraints... Doesn't look good for your image, either. 
And I never once said anything about Arken in this thread, did I? Way to bring things up and throw monkey wrenches into them, just to make me a target.
Just because I own a few of something, and started a thread about it doesn't mean I believe it's the best of the best... 
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This thread proves that saying bs over and over doesn’t make it true, but may convince a few folks.
S&B made excellent quality scopes 20 years ago, still does today, and still will in another 20.
S&B made excellent quality scopes 20 years ago, still does today, and still will in another 20.
Like I said, just speculation.I'm 35 and have nothing wrong with my eyes, other than some image clarity degradation of sight picture in my right eye due to damage sustained from injury, when my eyes get strained...No cataracts. But every S&B scope I have looked through in the last 10+ years has had a yellow tint to it. Not a fan. Reminds me of looking through a 1980's Tasco...
Like I said, I've shot through Hensoldt's, and own Kahles & Zeiss scopes, and looked through Kowa spotters... I know what good glass looks like. But through my eyes, the S&B's look terrible. It's just my eyes I guess?
As an older fella who recently had cataract surgery, I was shocked by the shift in color temp (to the warm yellow side) which happened so slowly that I never noticed.
Best of luck.
People who are saying they are outdated,what does that even mean? Reticles? Having owned my fair share of scopes with fancy Horus style reticles, Christmas tree reticles, mil dots, ect. I now mainly shoot standard mil dots or have a few in the MSR or TMR style reticles. Most of the other features people are wanting in scopes have been standard in the PMII line for a long time.
Anyone else doesn’t care that much about the modern tree reticles ? Sure the open reticle is nice for groups but honestly I’ve never been a fan of the H59 or Tremor and my LRs are 5mph guns so I’ve never had to do the wind dots or other silliness.
My last 2 purchases were a S&B klassik p3l and a razor Gen ii ebr 1c. I dial for elevation and I hold for wind and I don’t compete. If I were to get a ultra short 5-20, I’d probably get it in h2cmr or msr.
My last 2 purchases were a S&B klassik p3l and a razor Gen ii ebr 1c. I dial for elevation and I hold for wind and I don’t compete. If I were to get a ultra short 5-20, I’d probably get it in h2cmr or msr.
Did the same thing.
I have found that when sampling 4 different options at bourbon tastings, I most often choose #2.
I have 20/15 vision in both eyes but I have protanomoly and tritanomaly which are two mild/moderate spectrums of color blindness. I find the PM II 5-25 to be much better than NF scopes with absolutely no tinting at all. This is just a sample size of 4 scopes. I haven’t had the opportunity to use a TT or ZCO yet, but my next scope will probably be a ZCO.I'm 35 and have nothing wrong with my eyes, other than some image clarity degradation of sight picture in my right eye due to damage sustained from injury, when my eyes get strained...No cataracts. But every S&B scope I have looked through in the last 10+ years has had a yellow tint to it. Not a fan. Reminds me of looking through a 1980's Tasco...
Like I said, I've shot through Hensoldt's, and own Kahles & Zeiss scopes, and looked through Kowa spotters... I know what good glass looks like. But through my eyes, the S&B's look terrible. It's just my eyes I guess?
My only gripe about my S&B scopes is that I have a harder time finding the right diopter settings for my eyes than on other scopes for some reason.
When a S&B owner learns there are other comparable, if not better options.....
Agree a bit on the yellow tint(ish) of the 5-25, although it didn’t bother me at all.
Don’t complain with my Premier.
Still, the biggest “wow” with all the glass I have ever looked through, was a Hensoldt 6x24-72. That, well, that was just mind blowing, the eyebox, everything.
Still thinking about snatching one of these, although an old design.
In my book, Hensoldt is king.
Don’t complain with my Premier.
Still, the biggest “wow” with all the glass I have ever looked through, was a Hensoldt 6x24-72. That, well, that was just mind blowing, the eyebox, everything.
Still thinking about snatching one of these, although an old design.
In my book, Hensoldt is king.
Just got off the Armament Technology Tangent Theta website to check if they were still offering only 1 reticle.
Yep, just the 1 reticle option. So you throw +5K at these people & 1 ret choice.
I find that offensive.
I'd go with a Schmidt any day. They seem to respect their customers a lot more.
Yep, just the 1 reticle option. So you throw +5K at these people & 1 ret choice.
I find that offensive.
I'd go with a Schmidt any day. They seem to respect their customers a lot more.
Lol what? Are you looking for a specific reticle that they don't offer? I have no beef with S&B, love the one I have just seems like weird TT hate.
So we are just ignoring the water in the scope? How can Arken improve their product if they don't build it? I am sure the OEM will work very hard to improve the product at that price point.
I must defend the honor of my ATACRs from such obtuse attacks.
Remember who the real enemy here is people…ze Germans.
:: points to S&B hiding in the corner ::
There’s a vid out there where a dude beat the holy hell out of it, moved the turret inside the housing sideways, he had to crank it like it was a tight jar lid and it still tracked, then he used the turret as a hammer on the table to knock it back straight, it worked perfectly and still does. He put out another video of using the scope that literally looked like he drug it 5 miles down the road, it’s all fucked up, dented objective, dented ocular, on a springer air rifle, a light weight 45/70 and a semi 12 gauge and it continues to work just fine.
I know this isn’t pertinent to a S&B thread. But Arken made a bomb proof scope, lots of scope lickers are having a hard time with that fact.
Also the water leak was addressed.
Not a shill, but I give credit where it’s due.
That Nightforce torture test was mild compared to the Arken test.
He totally trashed the scope and it still worked.
That means a lot to me. I’m a logger and sometimes several miles from a parts store, often we brake or bend shit and it needs to be remedied in the field, if I can break something, beat it on a rock to fix it and continue my day, I’m sold!!
This isn’t from a 3000$ scope, it’s a 400$ scope.
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Did you miss the driving a spike with the scope then it still holding zero ?
It’s true, on our last company tool review, we decided to replace the Klein dead blow hammers with Arken scopes going forward. Not only are they superior built scopes, they aRe jUSt aS gUUD as hammers.
I’ll leave the Arken out of this very informative S&B trash thread.
Sorry.
Ha! Did you miss the dude hitting the Arken turret several times like he was trying to split wood?
Driving nails with turrets is so 1990s LOW tech.
The Millennial and Gen Z is so thick you can cut it with a turd knife.
I have. I was referring to the PMII and why it doesn't have all the lastest competition-driven features and pricing like some of the other scopes mentioned.
You sound like you might have a bunch of mark 4s on all your slow twist 1980s rifles.
Don't worry we'll bail
Don't worry, we'll bail your generation out of decades of shitty financial policies, again. We'll just do it by purchasing scopes and rifles not designed pre-GWOT
Don't worry, we'll bail your generation out of decades of shitty financial policies, again. We'll just do it by purchasing scopes and rifles not designed pre-GWOT
I do. I have one on a blue and wood, 30-60 Finbear from the 1980s, and a Burris Signature Series on a SS, A-Bolt from the 1980s, but I also have Kales, ZCOs, and TTs on new hotness rifles in wildcat calibers...
My point is that I was killing shit in the 1980s, before you were born, and shooting in matches when you were hiding behind your moma's skirt and sucking on your thumb. You may own some tier one scopes, but you have no perspective to actually engage intelligently in a conversation about what is good and what is bad with people who have been shooting at a top level for longer than you've been alive. You also seem to have zero respect for who got us to where we are. Men who've done more with a 10X Unertl scope than you ever will period. Hubris brings Nemisis. You ought to have a little humility, especially when bagging on shit you know nothing about. How many S&B scopes do you have to consider them trash? My President was Ronald Reagan (and Trump), and my economic policies are that the Federal Government needs to be decimated. Your generation is woke. Mine isn't.
My point is that I was killing shit in the 1980s, before you were born, and shooting in matches when you were hiding behind your moma's skirt and sucking on your thumb. You may own some tier one scopes, but you have no perspective to actually engage intelligently in a conversation about what is good and what is bad with people who have been shooting at a top level for longer than you've been alive. You also seem to have zero respect for who got us to where we are. Men who've done more with a 10X Unertl scope than you ever will period. Hubris brings Nemisis. You ought to have a little humility, especially when bagging on shit you know nothing about. How many S&B scopes do you have to consider them trash? My President was Ronald Reagan (and Trump), and my economic policies are that the Federal Government needs to be decimated. Your generation is woke. Mine isn't.
How old do you think I am boomer?
Who said S&B was trash in this immediate conversation?
You’re trying to gain control of the narrative without info, and you’re failing bad..
You’re not the only old fuck on here, so chill. I’m fucking old too, my back hurts..
Don’t bring intelligence into this, intelligence is being old enough to know better. You should be old enough to know better.
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