Is something going on in Ukraine?

Status
Not open for further replies.
#11,301
  • Wow
Reactions: 30calDeath
#11,304
GreenGO Juan said:
You are so far off base you are not even on the felid… you are still stuck in traffic on your way to the stadium.

Agency has much more important things to do than read any of the shit posts in here…
Click to expand...
If we had an IC that was managed and staffed by competent people selected for their positions by a rigorous merit based system I would be inclined to agree with you.

But we don’t have anything close to that now. So who knows what shit they are up to.
 
#11,306
#11,307
232593 said:
If we had an IC that was managed and staffed by competent people selected for their positions by a rigorous merit based system I would be inclined to agree with you.

But we don’t have anything close to that now. So who knows what shit they are up to.
Click to expand...
If anything they are likely trolling Grinder...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 232593
#11,308
Darayavaus said:
for those of you who like to read about cause and effect, here's a good article on the soviet border meddling that created Ukraine

This is RT, so it's written for 100+ types, not sub 100s like our MSM

www.rt.com

The ghost of Lenin: Why didn't Russia and Ukraine sort out their border issues when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991?

How the USSR leadership tried to resolve the issue of Crimea and southeast Ukraine, and what prevented them from doing it
www.rt.com www.rt.com
Click to expand...
Wait.. I thought the Soviets deported/Killed an bunch of Crimean Tartars? Then moved in. Before WW2 the population was Heavily tartar. After, not so much?
 
#11,309
232593 said:
If we had an IC that was managed and staffed by competent people selected for their positions by a rigorous merit based system I would be inclined to agree with you.

But we don’t have anything close to that now. So who knows what shit they are up to.
Click to expand...
In all seriousness, it sounds like they are planning a regime change in Russia. Listen to what Patraues says. Start around 42:40 in the video below.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Forgetful Coyote and 232593
#11,312

Vladimir Putin allegedly feuding with close ally and sources reveal he could soon be 'eliminated'​

Published on January 25, 2023 at 4:07 PM by Ali Postma
The head of the Wagner mercenary group has seemingly gotten too big for his boots, and Vladimir Putin isn't having it.

Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is reportedly on Vladimir Putin’s bad side after branding Moscow’s generals as a 'bunch of clowns'.

Taking all the credit​

Prigozhin has allegedly been bragging that his 500-strong private paramilitary fighters are more effective than Russia’s military. He reportedly boasted that his forces had single-handedly taken control of the eastern Ukrainian town of Soledar.
Putin allegedly feels threatened and is paranoid about Prigozhin's power, according to experts from the think-tank Institute for the Study of War (ISW). The Russian President made a point of not crediting Prigozhin or his fighters for the town's capture and has started to reinvolve himself in the war effort, meeting commanders.
The ISW said:
Prigozhin did not take the hint, if hint it was, but instead redoubled his efforts to assert himself by advertising the superiority and successes of his own troops
Click to expand...

His rhetoric and self-presentation had become overbearing and ostentatiously swaggering until things began to go south for him.
Click to expand...
Not only that, Prigozhin has been openly critical of the leadership of Russia's army and military. As a result, Putin has started marginalising the Wagner group, appointing General Valery Gerasimov as the country’s new military commander.

'A bunch of clowns'​

In his latest reproach, Prigozhin labelled Russia's defence chiefs as 'a bunch of clowns' seeking the 'glamorisation of the army'. He said:
Jail inmates fight better than units of the Guards. Servicemen with broken spines pass on their military experience at training camps, moving around like robots.
Click to expand...

And a bunch of clowns try to teach fighters exhausted with hard military labour how many times they ought to shave — and what kind of perfume they must use to greet high commanders.
Click to expand...
He added:
I believe we must introduce legal restrictions, and the harshest punishment with a jail term of up to 50 years for the glamorisation of the army.
Click to expand...

Read more: Vladimir Putin accused of 'deceiving' his own soldiers: 'The command doesn't care about us'

Has he gone too far?​

Prigozhin’s bold criticism has led some to wonder whether his ambition might have got the better of him. A source in the Russian political elite said:

People from the FSB are furious about him and see him as a threat to the constitutional order.
Click to expand...
It seems Prigozhin needs to remember that he depends on Putin’s continued favour to operate at all. A businessman who knew Prigozhin back in the 1990s said:
He understands that many hate him in the system … so he knows that if he stops, it could be the end for him. He has no choice. He cannot reverse.
Click to expand...

Read more:
⋙ Vladimir Putin: Russian TV host reveals terrifying consequences if President's needs aren't met
⋙ Vladimir Putin fortifies his secret palace in move to protect himself from 'all-out war'

A potential assassination attempt​


Indeed, the Kremlin suggested on Tuesday 24 January that there could be an assassination attempt on Prigozhin. Despite angering Putin, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said it's actually Ukrainian authorities that Prigozhin should be concerned about.
Prigozhin himself said he’d been informed about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and CIA director William Burns apparently meeting to talk about his assassination.
When asked about the accusation, Peskov said:
Ukraine is involved in both assassination attempts and an absolutely monstrous murder. The involvement of the Kyiv regime in such assassination attempts is obvious, so there is such a danger to our citizens.
Click to expand...
It was Vladimir Rogov, a Russian-installed leader in Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia region, who originally made the assassination claim. Rogov told Russian state media:

One of the requests Zelensky made [during a meeting with the CIA director] was the murder of the Wagner boss, Mr. Prigozhin.
Click to expand...
Prigozhin, through his press service, joked that killing him was a 'very good idea':
I agree that it’s time to eliminate Prigozhin. If they turn to me, I will definitely assist.
Click to expand...
However, there are those who believe that it is Russia who will benefit the most from his elimination. One commentator wrote:
It seems to me that those who are most interested in Prigozhin's elimination are located near the Kremlin. They’ll just leak information about [his] movements and locations to the Ukrainians.
Click to expand...
 
#11,316
GreenGO Juan said:
In all seriousness, it sounds like they are planning a regime change in Russia. Listen to what Patraues says. Start around 42:40 in the video below.

Click to expand...

Does not surprise me, they gave that shit a go back in 2014 if I remember correctly.

You can also see an IO LOE on various media sites socializing the idea of splitting up Russia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreenGO Juan
#11,317
theLBC said:
Click to expand...

If the Western allies condone such weapons of war... then we can expect American soldiers to face the same when NATO decides to OFFICIALLY fight in Ukraine.

though I suspect the Russians, like they have so far are calculated and not as easily provoked into escalating to banned weapons

If Ukr is using chemical weapons, this could turn the world from backing them.
 
#11,318
With so much propaganda being dumped out, I question the validity of everything, Ukraine, Russia, or otherwise. Chemical weapons, casualties, who's doing what, dot gov.

So much of this shit appears to be staged to garner support I question it ALL.

I guess I'm just a cynical bastard, and always will be, unless I see something with my own eyes or can verify it. No, I am not going overseas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: winxp_man
#11,319
So......... Did Syria use Chemical weapons on it's own people as the US government reported?..... hmmmmm
Here we are in Ukraine, discussing, who to trust......
Sounds like a person whose lied a few times, and then says, but I'm telling truth this time..
Que, boy who cried wolf
 
#11,320
DIBBS said:
With so much propaganda being dumped out, I question the validity of everything, Ukraine, Russia, or otherwise. Chemical weapons, casualties, who's doing what, dot gov.

So much of this shit appears to be staged to garner support I question it ALL.

I guess I'm just a cynical bastard, and always will be, unless I see something with my own eyes or can verify it. No, I am not going overseas.
Click to expand...
Please know I'm not arguing or attacking you.

I am speaking on a micro personal people level, not regards to sovereign nations

Often times people will distort facts when they are in the wrong. Bad People will continually pump out misinformation to sway people to their side understanding that if they spew enough bullshit, people will throw their hands up and disavow both sides as opposed to siding with just the good people

A fictional example might be a woman accuses a man of attempting to rape her

The rapist runs to the police first with a story calling 911 from this phone talking about how she stated she would call the police and tell them that he raped her because she was unhinged and he refused to commit to her

It goes from a victim reporting a crime to a he said / she said

It's a fictional example, those of you that are in the know about such things please note this is not a real life example
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sako man
#11,322
babyguppy said:
So......... Did Syria use Chemical weapons on it's own people as the US government reported?..... hmmmmm
Here we are in Ukraine, discussing, who to trust......
Sounds like a person whose lied a few times, and then says, but I'm telling truth this time..
Que, boy who cried wolf
Click to expand...
Both Ukraine and Russia are overflowing with Pravda, I don't trust information coming out of either country. It's almost impossible to really know anything these days unless personally observed. But what is admitted by our own country is that we had BioLabs in Ukraine, that were funded by the pentagon. I speculate they were not formulating the cure for cancer there, but who knows.
 
  • Like
Reactions: winxp_man
#11,323
pineoak said:
If the Western allies condone such weapons of war... then we can expect American soldiers to face the same when NATO decides to OFFICIALLY fight in Ukraine.

though I suspect the Russians, like they have so far are calculated and not as easily provoked into escalating to banned weapons

If Ukr is using chemical weapons, this could turn the world from backing them.
Click to expand...
they just lie, like always.
heck, this xiden regime blew up a car full of kids and claim they killed the kabul bombers.
now they might have been forced to admit it (this time) but how can you believe anything else they say after that?

anyway, the nazis already used these butterfly mines, and then the UK claimed the russians did it to themselves.
www.forbes.com

Who Dropped Thousands Of Antipersonnel ‘Butterfly’ Mines On Donetsk? (UPDATE: UK Blames Russia)

Locals news reports and social media show thousands of antipersonnel mines scattered across Russian-occupied Donetsk. But who dropped them?
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
not surprisingly, the ukrainians requested approval to "legally" use them to defend bakhmut. i don't know if they got approval, but they used them again anyway.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Rights Group Accuses Ukraine of Using Banned Mines - The Moscow Times

Human Rights Watch on Tuesday accused Ukraine of using banned anti-personnel landmines against invading Russian forces, saying almost 50 civilians, including five children, had been wounded.
www.themoscowtimes.com www.themoscowtimes.com
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Sako man
#11,324
pineoak said:
If the Western allies condone such weapons of war... then we can expect American soldiers to face the same when NATO decides to OFFICIALLY fight in Ukraine.

though I suspect the Russians, like they have so far are calculated and not as easily provoked into escalating to banned weapons

If Ukr is using chemical weapons, this could turn the world from backing them.
Click to expand...
Surely they couldn't be this stupid though could they? It basically clears hot a WMD-tier response.....not saying that Russia should/will, but why give them the excuse?
 
#11,325
pineoak said:
If the Western allies condone such weapons of war... then we can expect American soldiers to face the same when NATO decides to OFFICIALLY fight in Ukraine.

though I suspect the Russians, like they have so far are calculated and not as easily provoked into escalating to banned weapons

If Ukr is using chemical weapons, this could turn the world from backing them.
Click to expand...
It really looks like a simple F1 frag grenade. Pause at second 5-6. Then again as I have been saying all along from both fuckin side.... propaganda at its fuckin finest! :poop: 🤦‍♂️
 
#11,326
DIBBS said:
With so much propaganda being dumped out, I question the validity of everything, Ukraine, Russia, or otherwise. Chemical weapons, casualties, who's doing what, dot gov.

So much of this shit appears to be staged to garner support I question it ALL.

I guess I'm just a cynical bastard, and always will be, unless I see something with my own eyes or can verify it. No, I am not going overseas.
Click to expand...
STOP IT youre thinking with too damn hard! All kidding aside its what I have been sayin, and seems to be touching nerves on all sides haha.
 
#11,327
theLBC said:
Click to expand...

Pause the video at second 5-6 it looks like a F1 Grenade.

1675841495740.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: babyguppy
#11,337
pineoak said:
Yes. He is a bad guy.

But he might also have been pushed into Ukraine in defense of the nation he leads from NATO provocation/proxy war.

Both can be true.

I believe you are referring to "in this case" regarding the invasion of Ukraine. In that regard, Russia was not given a choice in whether to invade Ukraine, only when.
Click to expand...
How? Just what makes Putin the bad guy, and in looking at your list of "bad" things.....can you really trust that list?

Me, I am not so sure anymore.

I was pretty high on the list of running Russia into the river when this started, my entire life Russia has been the "bad guy". How much of that is a hold over from the guy pounding his shoe on the desk at the UN? (Many will not get that reference, and that is another problem)

Everyday that goes by I am second guessing just who the "bad guy" is here, and it ain't the russians.
 
  • Like
Reactions: smola, Sako man, 10ring'r and 3 others
#11,339
I think there's plenty of people that are starting to see things from a different perspective.
fpgt72 said:
How? Just what makes Putin the bad guy, and in looking at your list of "bad" things.....can you really trust that list?

Me, I am not so sure anymore.

I was pretty high on the list of running Russia into the river when this started, my entire life Russia has been the "bad guy". How much of that is a hold over from the guy pounding his shoe on the desk at the UN? (Many will not get that reference, and that is another problem)

Everyday that goes by I am second guessing just who the "bad guy" is here, and it ain't the russians.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sako man, Emerson0311 and Forgetful Coyote
#11,340
fpgt72 said:
How? Just what makes Putin the bad guy, and in looking at your list of "bad" things.....can you really trust that list?

Me, I am not so sure anymore.

I was pretty high on the list of running Russia into the river when this started, my entire life Russia has been the "bad guy". How much of that is a hold over from the guy pounding his shoe on the desk at the UN? (Many will not get that reference, and that is another problem)

Everyday that goes by I am second guessing just who the "bad guy" is here, and it ain't the russians.
Click to expand...
Both are.

There are no good guys or right side.

Level the whole nation and call it a draw.

This is the best possible outcome. Peace will not be allowed and neither side can afford to lose. Pushing this to the end where one side wins will cause a major collapse of some sort or another.

There are no good options available. Only less bad ones.

Even a draw has major downsides.
 
  • Like
Reactions: winxp_man
#11,344
mikeb127 said:
Surely they couldn't be this stupid though could they? It basically clears hot a WMD-tier response.....not saying that Russia should/will, but why give them the excuse?
Click to expand...
They were stupid enough to enter this conflict without a long term or exit strategy. So, yes, they are that stupid.

I do not believe Russia is nearly as unhinged as Western media would have you believe. It's kind of the other way around if you ignore the rhetoric and examine the decisions and actions instead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BLEE, 10ring'r, Emerson0311 and 1 other person
#11,347
eca7891 said:
I really wish people would research the history of Ukraine and their interactions with Germany versus Russia during ww2.

This would explain much.
Click to expand...

The entire history of that area of the world going back to the days of Rome is very interesting, and something that even educated americans on the subject still can't quite grab. The "feelings" to the other "groups" in that section of the world, running up from Greece straight north to Baltic sea, so think on one end the Adriatic on the other the black and go basically straight up till you hit the Baltic and that entire "section" is full of "ethnic" groups that don't like each other very much. The only reason it did not get real nasty is guys like Tito held the reigns with an iron fist. After that went away it got very messy. Every once and a while during the "modern" age things will get real messy again, think Cyprus in the 70's. These are two countries on the "same side", real messy to this day. It is funny I just looked and even google maps has "no mans land" between them.
1675862600978.png
 
#11,348
I have freedom of speech. But I don't know how that relates to the topic we are discussing.
MaxP said:
Like you have freedom of speech? I just wanted to say that the world is not black and white. Don't believe everything politicians or TV tell us.
Click to expand...
I think that the world has proven that there's majority of people that believe what they are told. But you won't find that statistic with the people here
 
  • Like
Reactions: Forgetful Coyote and Darayavaus
#11,349
MaxP said:
There will be no draw. We cannot afford to lose. A draw in this case is tantamount to defeat for us.
Click to expand...
It's already over if the fight is limited to Ukraine. Unless NATO is willing to commit warm bodies to the trenches, the Ukrainian forces are not going to last much longer. They just don't have the manpower to continue fighting given how fast they're losing people. 12 mobilizations so far for Ukraine? This is BEFORE Russia launches their offensive any day now (still shaping the battlefield?, waiting on the anniversary date?).

Sending Ukraine 3 different types of tanks with minimal training in usage and repair, adding to the logistical burden... we're kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of support now. Almost setting them up for failure in a way.

Some might say looking at our history since WW2, we've lost more conflicts overall than we've "won", even with vastly superior firepower and logistics.

We CAN afford to lose this conflict. That's why we used Ukraine in a proxy war. If this sh*t doesn't work out, we walk away like we often do. Maybe we lose some reputation and the Chinese can laugh at us, but existentially speaking... the USA is better off losing 20-50% of Ukraine to Russia and ending this than to risk a hot war with a nuclear power for which this conflict IS existential.

If Russia took over Canada and was doing the same thing to us, we would look at this very differently. And it would be more personal.

Reminder that we are fighting a war in Russia's backyard. Logistically speaking, this is a ground war and close to them. Their advantage.

Yes, we have prepositioned equipment, but we're literally fighting a war 1/2 way around the world where we have to transport everything. Our allies in the EU... are weak and with the exception of France will not offer much in a war with Russia. Turkiye is an exception, but I could see them either siding with Russia or staying out of it.

Once fully engaged with Russia in a land based conflict next to Russia, it would be a great time for China to blockade Taiwan (not invade)... in early April is my guess. But not unless we were fully engaged and shooting back and forth.

Timing really puts us in a hard spot as we could be facing 2 near peers in conflict simultaneously on the other side of the planet. Logistically, I do not believe we have the people or ability to do that effectively. Though if China does blockade Taiwan I see us sending ships anyway. Whether we actually trade missiles and such is a different story.

Douglas Macgregor stated that the US is a superpower based on naval and aerospace, not land based war. Fighting Russia in their strength and our weaker facet would not be smart.

IF we must engage with Russia, I hope the US armed forces plan to do it in a manner that leverages our Navy and Air Force (maritime and aerospace), and stays far far away from Russian artillery, front line trench warfare. The Ukrainians are literally feeding a meatgrinder right now.

Do not want anything to do with that for American troops.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: smola, BLEE, 10ring'r and 1 other person
#11,350
fpgt72 said:
How? Just what makes Putin the bad guy, and in looking at your list of "bad" things.....can you really trust that list?

Me, I am not so sure anymore.

I was pretty high on the list of running Russia into the river when this started, my entire life Russia has been the "bad guy". How much of that is a hold over from the guy pounding his shoe on the desk at the UN? (Many will not get that reference, and that is another problem)

Everyday that goes by I am second guessing just who the "bad guy" is here, and it ain't the russians.
Click to expand...
Personally, I believe NATO pushed Russia into this position and actions. From the perspective of values, Putin has more in common with me than 1/2 of America.

That said, he is not a "good guy" in terms of how he runs and treats the citizens under his care. I know many people disagree with this including Macgregor, but I do believe he is aiming to expand and build a new empire. Primarily to secure his borders given how indefensible much of them are now (flat land).
 
  • Like
Reactions: smola, BLEE, Forgetful Coyote and 1 other person
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts