Issue with mounting scope... in relation to the rifle its at bit of an angle

[Tokay444]

You guys are so focused on whether or not the scope is built correctly and/or does it track correctly and just assumed I threw that out the window!

Yes, the OP could have a scope reticle not plum, more than a few have been produced with that issue. Known fact, so rule that out.

Even the best scopes available, not every single one off the line is going to have 100% perfect tracking, another given.

Let's say you eliminated those variables, and/or Ok this is not perfect tracking but in the 99+% range. Send it back? Most can't shoot that well past 1,000 yards anyway. The wind will defeat you first.

My point was AFTER you mount it, what then? You notice @ 100 yard tall target test your bullets are going right to left of the 4"-5" plum line you drew, or left to right?

It's not spin drift when it's only 100 yards!

But the more you dial while using the same POA at the bottom to the target your bullets are going further and further from the plum line at a diagonal!

What then? The scope looks plum and level..... but is it? What then? Franks tool says I have perfect tracking, only now it's mounted to my gun.... and "it ain't looking so good".

What now?

Yah, i.e. You buy perfectly machined wheels, mount the best tires money can buy. They road force balanced them perfectly..... Yet you still notice you have a imbalance issue...... And low and behold your mechanic tells you the rotor's hub is not centered to your axle!

Go figure.

See above.

 

[Precision Underground]

You guys are so focused on whether or not the scope is built correctly and/or does it track correctly and just assumed I threw that out the window!

Yes, the OP could have a scope reticle not plum, more than a few have been produced with that issue. Known fact, so rule that out.

Even the best scopes available, not every single one off the line is going to have 100% perfect tracking, another given.

Let's say you eliminated those variables, and/or Ok this is not perfect tracking but in the 99+% range. Send it back? Most can't shoot that well past 1,000 yards anyway. The wind will defeat you first.

My point was AFTER you mount it, what then? You notice @ 100 yard tall target test your bullets are going right to left of the 4"-5" plum line you drew, or left to right?

It's not spin drift when it's only 100 yards!

But the more you dial while using the same POA at the bottom to the target your bullets are going further and further from the plum line at a diagonal!

What then? The scope looks plum and level..... but is it? What then? Franks tool says I have perfect tracking, only now it's mounted to my gun.... and "it ain't looking so good".

What now?

Yah, i.e. You buy perfectly machined wheels, mount the best tires money can buy. They road force balanced them perfectly..... Yet you still notice you have a imbalance issue...... And low and behold your mechanic tells you the rotor's hub is not centered to your axle!

Go figure.

The reticle is just a sight. If it tracks vertically in a fixture it will track vertically on a rifle. There’s nothing it can do on the rifle that’s different than a fixture. It’s up to you to make sure the reticle is level to the earth before you send a round. It doesn’t matter if it’s level with the rifle.

I set my rifles up to be canted a good bit toward my head when the reticle is level. So I intentionally set the scope up NOT level with the rifle. I actually looked for the math to make sure I wasn’t so canted that it would matter. It’s canted so much you can visually see it and it still doesn’t matter. If the reticle is level to the earth and tracks vertically that’s all that matters.

 

[6.5 GUY]

You are correct, mechanical variables come into play. That 1% (or .1mil) at 1K would be nice to eliminate but realizing that it's only 4", it comes down to weighing in if that is worth the effort of getting it within that 1cm at 100yds? I guess it makes sense to shift the scope a millimeter left/right to counter that 1% if it works.

Wind reading is more of my issue with F-class LR than a 1% tracking error.

Exactly, Or a MOA scope which is more precise, 1/4, or 1/8 moa vs 1/10 mrad.

Edit: I haven't used moa in over 20 years, that said a fraction of something is still a number!

 

[6.5 GUY]

Send the scope back for one that’s square to itself.

+1

To the OP, If the reticle is canted and you're sure it's mounted correctly send it in the the manufacturer.

 

[6.5 GUY]

@PrecisionUnderground That makes sense, if not I don't know how anyone got through sniper school decades ago using only a 10x scope shooting a 308 Win.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

I suppose having your bullets going left to right or right to left diagonally as you dial up at a stationary target with a 4' plum line drawn on the target vs your bullets all rising vertically as you dial is NOT important?

Q: How is this scenario even possible if your scope has been proven to track vertical, your reticle is aligned squarely inside the scope tube and you are maintaining scope alignment to the vertical whilst shooting?

A: It isn't. You could have your rifle canted 90 degrees and as long as your reticle is aligned to the vertical, any elevation dialled will result in a vertical string of shots along your plumb line on your stationary target.

Good luck Shootin Stuff way out there with your ideas AFTER you have mounted your scope to your barreled action.

If not done that way you'll be chasing your tail thinking it's a incorrect wind call the further out you go because you can't even see the fraction of degrees it's rotated within the rings!

Hang on, are you stating the scope must be aligned to the vertical whilst over the bore centreline of your rifle or just that your scope must be aligned to the vertical and bore centreline isn't important? No one here will argue that you don't need to shoot with your scope orientated vertically, but to say it must be exactly over bore centreline is wrong. A nice table with a whole bunch of numbers on it has even been posted a few posts back....

But hey, roll on with what works for you. I've been doing that way for at least 25 years now and it's proven itself over and over again for me!

For how long did backwards thinkers believe the earth was flat, heavier than air flight was impossible and the moon was made out of cheese?

Here's where you incorrectly diagnosed the very issue I stated, and you seem to think by changing windage at 100 yards zero is a fix while dialing out for shots going left to right?

I didn't "diagnose" anything, OP of that thread said he was impacting exponentially further to the right with an increase in RANGE.
Nothing in his thread about dialling elevation on a tall target test at 100, his target of multiple ranges (once posted) appeared to tell a different story.

I would tell you biasing your zero is kind of similar to a MPBR in the horizontal for the conditions of the moment, but won't, because that's obviously above your pay grade.

Just remember.... the bullet does not lie, what it does, tells you what it is doing.

The bullet doesn't lie, but to say its final point of impact is "truthful" omits the fact that environmental effects are "persuading" the bullet to give the point of impact they have "influenced" it to, from the moment it leaves the barrel. Usually neglegable at 100 for zeroing purposes, but to say external factors do not exist whilst zeroing is a "lie".

My point was AFTER you mount it, what then?

Provided your scope passes a tracking and reticle alignment test on the stand, you mount the motherfucker and start shooting.
If it tracked true on the fixture it will track true on the rifle. Anything else is something YOU are doing to it.

Franks tool says I have perfect tracking, only now it's mounted to my gun.... and "it ain't looking so good".

What now?

You align your reticle to vertical. DUH!!!

Frank also say's offset bores and bubble levels don't matter. He has some pretty cool articles and photos to back that up with. If he says your scope has perfect tracking, your scope has perfect tracking.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

@lowlight makes his bread and butter from perfecting shooting rigs, and the shooters that own them.
Definitely has a lot of good info.

 

[ken226]

Exactly, Or a MOA scope which is more precise with each 1/10 moa vs 1/10 mrad.

If you don't mind me asking, which make/ model scope has 1/10 moa adjustments?

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

1/10 MOA gradient?
I don't think there is any such beast.
Unless it's some kind of bastard creation from China, with whatever shitfuckery they can be bothered scratching on the turrets.
Like their Zeiss knockoffs.

 

[6.5 GUY]

If you don't mind me asking, which make/ model scope has 1/10 moa adjustments?

No one does, it was a typo, you can get 1/8 MOA ..125; which was my point vs .36 for mrad.
March does though have a few scopes with.050 MOA clicks which is.0625”@100 yards.... can’t get any smaller than that.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Q: How is this scenario even possible if your scope has been proven to track vertical, your reticle is aligned squarely inside the scope tube and you are maintaining scope alignment to the vertical whilst shooting?

Provided your scope passes a tracking and reticle alignment test on the stand, you mount the motherfucker and start shooting.
If it tracked true on the fixture it will track true on the rifle. Anything else is something YOU are doing to it.

You align your reticle to vertical. DUH!!!

Most people don't have access to one of these fixtures that Frank is using. Really, every guy has to have something like this to shoot accurately! Sure you can mount your gun in a vise, and check it against the black sharpie line you drew on a 4'-5' piece of cardboard.

Most people can acquire a piece of cardboard to do this test. The plum line was made using a 4' level, of course it's plum to the Earth! You'll be aligning that plum line with your reticle so YES when you fire a round it's vertical! Dial another 5 mils and fire a round, dial 10 fire another round, go to 15 mils if you wish, go back down. They should have all gone vertical to the plum line. Now measure where your rounds landed, 18", 36", 54".



That's not hard to do, most people don't have access to a scope fixture unless they take Frank's classes. Frank is very good at what he does, in fact he's exceptional! I have a lot of respect for Frank, he's helped more people in this sport than anyone I know! I met him when I shot the 2014, and 2016 SHC. I only stopped shooting the SHC event because I had been shooting Carl Taylor's In-Motion Kettle Falls Steel Challenge since 2014 and didn't care to shoot another Team event in 2017.

I've shot more than a few PRS/NRL and CD events since I retired 7 years ago. I guess I just prefer to shoot more, and post less.... Which still means nothing, but that's Ok with me. I was attempting to show a way for the layperson to make sure their scope is tracking vertically while it's on their rifle!

 

[6.5 GUY]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words:

I shot the CD Steel Safari with Ret. US Army Special Forces Sniper Instructor Brian Whelan in 2017 for two of the three day during the Match in Logan, NM. In case you don't know who this guy is, he's taught classes with Frank last year.

@ ShootinStuff: Still Above my pay grade?

 

[Shootin Stuff]

@6.5 GUY


C'mon man! This stuff isn't rocket science.

Scrap piece of timber, couple of screws, old pic rail, sandbags. There's your tracking fixture.

Hang up a tape measure. There's your calibrated plumb line.
Haven't you learnt anything from the big players in this game yet? Levels ain't level (and not just gun levels).

How much did you spend on your rifle/scope/peripherals if the above items are considered prohibitively expensive?

How many times does this need repeating, you DO NOT fire a single shot during a scope tracking test. If the scope tracks true on the fixture it WILL track true on the rifle. Anything else is something YOU are doing to it.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

@ ShootinStuff: Still Above my pay grade?

Yes, obviously.

You have back tracked and changed your tune, avoided any of the points raised previously and instead gone off on a semi related tangent confirming (for the most part) what I said in my initial post.

But hey, as long as you're learning that's all anyone can ask for.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Wow dude, a broken record. At last check I'm pretty sure scope manufactures check for tracking before shipping!?! So I'll say it again, what do people do without the fancy scope tracking fixture?

No it's not rocket science, KISS, but you seem to think every guy that wants to go shoot long distances accurately needs his own a scope testing fixture!........ In place of cardboard, a Sharpie and a 4' level! So now levels aren't level to draw a plum line! Good God Man, I use a STABILA.... They're known Worldwide for a reason, but I know you'll already disagree!

It's clear as day to visually see that you're holding the rifle's reticle directly over the plum line drawn, so no, you can't fuck it up!

BTW, do you even know who that guy is in that YouTube video? I'd bet the Farm you couldn't hold a candle to how smart that guy is! You should probably Google it!

He made that for the people that don't have a lot of money...... Maybe that's a surprise to your lifestyle Downunder!

So shooting a tall target is a total waste you say!!! This was for testing before the Spearpoint ELR match that a friend of mine and her friends made for testing their rifles. You'll down play that too I'm sure..... "You Don't need to fire a round to test for your tracking to calculate where your bullets are going"....

I know more than a few people that compete on a National level that would look at me like I was trying to sell them something if I asked them if they use a scope tracking device vs shooting. But hey, I'll ask Jake Vibbert tomorrow when I see him. I'd bet he'd laugh, USO makes sure their shooting staff has something that works. How about George Gardner of GA Precision.... I'll text him and see what he does?

Backtracking, No, anybody can do that tall target test and see if they've mounted their scope level, and where their bullets are going. Concentrate... back to KISS.

It's too bad we don't have credentials vs the thread count, that would help immensely.

That said it's clearly evident that you're the only expert in the room, and for that reason I'm done explaining there's more ways to skin a Cat!

 

[KnowNothing256]

Phew, I’m awful tired of seeing this thread pop up in my notifications. You two go argue somewhere else, we’re far afield from OP’s original request.

Unwatched.

 

[Tokay444]

We get it. You don’t want to take your scope off the gun. Fine. Leave it on. You still don’t need to waste the ammo/components to test the tracking of an optic.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

At last check I'm pretty sure scope manufactures check for tracking before shipping!?!

So all scopes that leave all factories track 100% along their axis and with correct linear displacement? What about those 1/10th MOA scopes you mentioned?

There are also quite a few good articles and threads on this website about how well (or not) various scopes have performed in tracking and displacement verification tests after shipping from the manufacturer....

So I'll say it again, what do people do without the fancy scope tracking fixture?

See my previous post for how those without a "fancy scope tracking fixture" CAN validate correct scope tracking (or lack thereof).

They could also not be verifying and just go out there and shoot. Because remember, "I'm pretty sure scope manufacturers check for tracking before shipping!?!"....

you seem to think every guy that wants to go shoot long distances accurately needs his own a scope testing fixture!

Yes, those who want to shoot long distances ACCURATELY, or those who want to verify/map their scope tracking need their own testing fixture. See my previous post for how this can be achieved on ANYONES budget.

I believe one of the very first things done in Frank's classes is to remove the students scope and do a quick tracking verification, but yeah, you're totally right. Scope tracking doesn't matter....

In place of cardboard, a Sharpie and a 4' level! So now levels aren't level to draw a plum line! Good God Man, I use a STABILA.... They're known Worldwide for a reason, but I know you'll already disagree!

It's clear as day to visually see that you're holding the rifle's reticle directly over the plum line drawn, so no, you can't fuck it up!

Well you manage to, REPEATEDLY! You even admitted this yourself.

"bullets going left to right or right to left diagonally as you dial up at a stationary target".

"can't even see the fraction of degrees it's rotated within the rings"

"I've been doing that way for at least 25 years now"

BTW, do you even know who that guy is in that YouTube video? I'd bet the Farm you couldn't hold a candle to how smart that guy is! You should probably Google it!

Who, Brian Litz?
Brian Litz from Berger, the same Berger that got caught inflating BC numbers on their projectiles?
Brian Litz from Applied Ballistics, the same Applied Ballistics that thought he had been chosen by god himself as the sole source of Doppler radar verification, the Brian Litz that had a meltdown when Hornady released their own FREE CFD based ballistic calculator?
Brian Litz, that guy?

So how big is your farm and what do you grow there?

Disclaimer: I have nothing for/against Brian Litz, he is a very clever guy. His "Marketing hype in Ballistics- Hornday 4dof" article, not so much. His subsequent brain aneurysm on the forums was entertaining though.

So shooting a tall target is a total waste you say!!!

Yes. It proves nothing, introduces variables to the scope validation process and burns up cash. For the cost of shooting your "tall target test" (not to mention materials cost for the tall target itself) you could have purchased the timber, screws, pic rail and sandbag needed for a home brew scope fixture and verified as many scopes as you like! Hell, you could even charge your pals $5 a scope and THEY would still be saving money too!

You'll down play that too I'm sure.....

Correct.

"You Don't need to fire a round to test for your tracking to calculate where your bullets are going"....

Now we're making progress!

I know more than a few people that compete on a National level that would look at me like I was trying to sell them something if I asked them if they use a scope tracking device vs shooting.

I am attempting to enlighten yourself and any other new shooters towards a more efficient process.

Again. The earth was flat, heavier than air flight was impossible and the moon was made out of cheese....

Old dog, new tricks....

Lead a horse to water....

Etc....

Backtracking, No, anybody can do that tall target test and see if they've mounted their scope level,
and where their bullets are going. Concentrate... back to KISS.

What the actual fuck man, how are you STILL not grasping this concept?

If your scope tracks true and the reticle is aligned correctly within the tube, holding the crosshairs level WILL RESULT in a vertical string of shots on a stationary target with either a hold over/under OR dialling +- elevation.

It's too bad we don't have credentials vs the thread count, that would help immensely.

It is and it would, but it would depend entirely on who is handing out the credentials and the verification process involved with obtaining them....

That said it's clearly evident that you're the only expert in the room, and for that reason I'm done explaining there's more ways to skin a Cat!

I believe there are, or at least were, a few in this room.

If you want to skin that cat, why not do it in the most efficient way possible, preserve the pelt and get back to shooting long range sooner?

If you would rather shoot than skin cats then you would be wise to heed what has been said prior.

 

[6.5 GUY]

 

[Tokay444]

It’s absolutely insane to believe, and then share the belief, that introducing variables such as:
Shooter
Ammo
Barrel
Mechanical connections
Etc
is the best way to test a scope’s tracking accuracy.
Also, I LOL@the comment about all scopes being tested 100% before leaving their respective factories.

 

[6.5 GUY]

 

[smoothy8500]

Yeah, this thread is going nowhere....

 

[Tokay444]

View attachment 7604876

I wouldn't want to be known for that quote either.

 

[6.5 GUY]

I wouldn't want to be known for that quote either.

Dude you and your penpal ShootinStuff, which at least I'll say he sounds smart, you just follow suit with repeating him over and over again!

I just think you're an expert at diarrhea of the mouth! How about you put your money $$$ where your mouth is.... and we'll shoot the CD Steel Safari this year! $100.00 each day to the winner, it's a three day match BTW, and Not a PRS event!

I know Zak well enough that he'll send us off first thing in the morning together, shooting the same COF 10 minutes apart each day, We''l take off last on day two, and somewhere in the middle on day three. This is just like what Frank is talking about now to change to PRS.... And No Dude you won't be carrying your tripod fully extended with rangefinding Binos attached either..... Nope it'll ALL be on your back with only your rifle in one hand, mag in, and bolt back!

We'll see just how great of a shooter you are!?! And if you can't beat me.... an old guy with aging eyes in his late fifties, you really do suck!

That's three days to make back your match fees, or lose to a guy that just has a different opinion than you!

How about that smart ass? Or are you too chicken!

 

[Tokay444]

Smart ass. Natural predator of the dumbass.
I regurgitate Shootin Stuff because I don’t add extra variables into a scope tracking test, much the same way the owner of this site does?
Shoot together? No. If I was going to travel to a foreign country to shoot, it wouldn’t be with the likes of you.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Smart ass. Natural predator of the dumbass.
I regurgitate Shootin Stuff because I don’t add extra variables into a scope tracking test, much the same way the owner of this site does?
Shoot together? No. If I was going to travel to a foreign country to shoot, it wouldn’t be with the likes of you.

Now the truth comes out, an internet know it all...... Not from here.... Huh, go figure. You can Hide on here... that's for sure!

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Dude you and your penpal ShootinStuff, which at least I'll say he sounds smart, you just follow suit with repeating him over and over again!

I just think you're an expert at diarrhea of the mouth! How about you put your money $$$ where your mouth is.... and we'll shoot the CD Steel Safari this year! $100.00 each day to the winner, it's a three day match BTW, and Not a PRS event!

I know Zak well enough that he'll send us off first thing in the morning together, shooting the same COF 10 minutes apart each day, We''l take off last on day two, and somewhere in the middle on day three. This is just like what Frank is talking about now to change to PRS.... And No Dude you won't be carrying your tripod fully extended with rangefinding Binos attached either..... Nope it'll ALL be on your back with only your rifle in one hand, mag in, and bolt back!

We'll see just how great of a shooter you are!?! And if you can't beat me.... an old guy with aging eyes in his late fifties, you really do suck!

That's three days to make back your match fees, or lose to a guy that just has a different opinion than you!

How about that smart ass? Or are you too chicken!

Just give up man, admit defeat and move on.

 

[Tokay444]

Now the truth comes out, an internet know it all...... Not from here.... Huh, go figure. You can Hide on here... that's for sure!

Ignorance is contagious. I’m almost afraid to be on the same continent as you.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Just give up man, admit defeat and move on.

Never! But I am surprised not to hear you don’t want to take your friends place shooting against me at the CD Steel Safari this year though!

BTW, I did ask Jake Vibbert how he checks his scope for tracking and without mentioning this shit show he instantly said do a tall target test, and went on how to do it! So I’m not alone on doing it that way!

I did though ask him if he used a scope tracking device off the gun and he immediately said “I’ll sell you one” and that he’s tested at least 100 scopes, and that small 1% deviation in error no one can shoot that well to notice a difference! He did say it will take the shooter error out of it and the gun…. But that I was already a good shooter and to just keep doing what I’ve been doing! Go figure!

So when a Top National PRS/NRL winner says do a tall target test, I tend to listen and not disagree all night and day!

 

[Tokay444]

Jake shoots 1 moa guns. At 2 moa targets. Tracking for him really doesn’t matter.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Good God Man 1 moa, you must be having a Freudian slip!

He shoots a Dasher, try more like 3/8" moa of less on a bad day, and no they are not all 2 moa targets! You fucking think at a PRS event pros will be shooting a 16" target @ 800 yards!?! 1-1.5 most of the time, 2 moa sure way out there @ a 1,000 yards or more.

He just instructed me two days ago to set up this KYL rack at 380-400 yards that has a 8" 6" 5" 4" and 3" target. That makes the 3" .75 moa @ 400 yards bonehead!

Seriously dude, talk is cheap, you're way of your league if you think we shoot 1 moa guns!

 

[Tokay444]

Good God Man 1 moa, you must be having a Freudian slip!

He shoots a Dasher, try more like 3/8" moa of less on a bad day, and no they are not all 2 moa targets! You fucking think at a PRS event pros will be shooting a 16" target @ 800 yards!?! 1-1.5 most of the time, 2 moa sure way out there @ a 1,000 yards or more.

He just instructed me two days ago to set up this KYL rack at 380-400 yards that has a 8" 6" 5" 4" and 3" target. That makes the 3" .75 moa @ 400 yards bonehead!

Seriously dude, talk is cheap, you're way of your league if you think we shoot 1 moa guns!

View attachment 7606565

Do you even listen to his podcast? No Freudian slips. He routinely shoots barrels that are 1 moa. That’s all he requires to be able to win.

 

[6.5 GUY]

No I don't listen to his podcasts, but I have watched him more than a few times on stages. If his personal comp rifle shot 1 moa..... he more than likely meant @ 1,000 yards or more..... Under 600 yards half that I'd bet, or I'm the Joker! Heck, I've shot 1 moa left handed and I'm a right handed shooter! I doubt the rifles he hands out for training classes are more than 1 moa @ 600 yards.

Look, I'm done with you two guys on which is your prefered method, and my own. Good luck with your endeavors though, and stay healthy.

 

[Tokay444]

You go ahead and add extra variables. When you don’t get desirable results, then what? You blame the scope? The load? The gun? The shooter?
We’ll keep it simple, stupid. When we don’t get desirable results, there’s only one variable. The scope.

 

[ken226]

I made a scope fixture last year.

I built it from a few bucks worth of scrap steel, and a cheap ebay picatinny rail section attached with screws and rivnuts. About 50$ total and a couple hours of work. It makes checking reticle subtensions and tracking a snap.

Given the difference between which brands internet tards say don't track vs reality, I wanted to be able to accurately check things for myself. It's usually just Bear Pit dwellers hopping in with typically well thought out one-liners though.


It makes me wonder though, how many scope manufacturers have chased their tails doing warranty work on a tracking problem because some dumbass couldn't shoot.

I'm sure some guys can shoot a tall target test just fine. But I doubt everyone can.

 

[Tokay444]

The manufacture’s first test when they receive a, “scope that doesn’t track” is to plop it in a fixture and test it. If it tracks they send it right back. You can bet they don’t mount it to a fucking rifle and take a tall target out to 100 yards and shoot live ammo, because that would be absolutely fucking retarded. But Vibbert...

 

[6.5 GUY]

You go ahead and add extra variables. When you don’t get desirable results, then what? You blame the scope? The load? The gun? The shooter?
We’ll keep it simple, stupid. When we don’t get desirable results, there’s only one variable. The scope.

Talk is cheap.....

The scope again, I prefer to just shoot and beat you where it hurts...... Every stage, over, and over, and over again!

 

[Tokay444]

It’s clear you’re not dealing with a full deck.
You do what’s best for you. The folks with half a brain can figure it out for themselves.
Problem solving 101. Eliminate as many variables as you. You’re testing a scope. Just test the scope.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

View attachment 7609669

What you have failed to realise in this instance is, that we are Mark Twain and you are stupid people. You have proven proven that time and time again in this thread.

Marks advice is sage though and I believe we are at the point where any reader will be able to adequately seperate the wheat from the chaff, so my job here is done.

 

[smoothy8500]

Time to move on....

 

[Tokay444]

Time to move on....

Wait. I think it might get up.

 

[Baron23]

 

[6.5 GUY]

It’s clear you’re not dealing with a full deck.
You do what’s best for you. The folks with half a brain can figure it out for themselves.
Problem solving 101. Eliminate as many variables as you. You’re testing a scope. Just test the scope.

So what is more important, telling everyone how great your scope tracking skills are, or hitting the target.

Jake shoots 1 moa guns. At 2 moa targets. Tracking for him really doesn’t matter.

Now tracking doesn't matter after ranting post after post testing for tracking without shooting ammo is paramount.

Wait. I think it might get up.

You should get up off your chair and send more rounds downrange. It's obvious you measure your success by the number of posts to threads on here vs how well you can shoot!

BTW Frank is down at the Blue Steel Ranch this week shooting steel. @Shootinstuff/Tokay444 The same place the Steel Safari is held, but neither one of you have the balls to shoot the event.....

 

[Tokay444]

So what is more important, telling everyone how great your scope tracking skills are, or hitting the target.

Now tracking doesn't matter after ranting post after post testing for tracking without shooting ammo is paramount.

You should get up off your chair and send more rounds downrange. It's obvious you measure your success by the number of posts to threads on here vs how well you can shoot!

BTW Frank is down at the Blue Steel Ranch this week shooting steel. @Shootinstuff/Tokay444 The same place the Steel Safari is held, but neither one of you have the balls to shoot the event.....

If you’re testing scope tracking properly, scope tracking is all that matters. Based on the results of the test, you decide if the scope meets your exceptions based on what you’re using it for, and whether you’re going to keep it, or send it back.
If you’re shooting a tall target, scope tracking matters, load matters, rifle integrity matters, shooter matters, etc. etc. etc.
Back to problem solving 101. Eliminate variables and solve one at a time.

 

[Baron23]

I made a scope fixture last year.

I built it from a few bucks worth of scrap steel, and a cheap ebay picatinny rail section attached with screws and rivnuts. About 50$ total and a couple hours of work. It makes checking reticle subtensions and tracking a snap.

Given the difference between which brands internet tards say don't track vs reality, I wanted to be able to accurately check things for myself. It's usually just Bear Pit dwellers hopping in with typically well thought out one-liners though.


It makes me wonder though, how many scope manufacturers have chased their tails doing warranty work on a tracking problem because some dumbass couldn't shoot.

I'm sure some guys can shoot a tall target test just fine. But I doubt everyone can.

Wow....that's very nice. You should make some and sell them. I think there would be some type of market for them if they are not too much $$

 

[Baron23]

Wow, what a pissing contest.

I have a very extensive background in testing.....flight testing, lab and factory testing of avionics and airborne electronics, and later in my career lab/manf and field testing of very high tech telecom core network equipment.

A core principal of testing is isolating the unit under test (UUT). Actually, if trying to test a particular characteristic or function of the UUT, you want to isolate that aspect from any other internal/external factors to the extent possible.

If a person doesn't fully understand this, they have no business offering any fucking opinions about anything that ends with the word "test" as in "tall target test" and "scope tracking test". Get it....there is that funny word "test" in there so the disciplines and processes of good valid scientific/engineering testing apply.

In this case, my understanding is that the desire is to test the tracking function (both vertically and horizontally) of a rifle scope. In order to do that, isolation of that scope and those functions, to the maximum degree possible, yields the most valid results. This is, IMO, inarguable except out of ignorance.

And I had another thought after reading all of the "shooting challenges" above as if that has anything to do with anybody's understanding of the best way to test tracking of a rifle scope. And the thought was this....for a very long time I shot registered skeet with a regular squad whose lead off shooter is a multi-time world champ, High Average Leader, tied for most 500 x 500's, and he is in the NSSA HOF. I love the guy....but he can't teach skeet worth a shit nor does he know the first thing about gunsmithing or really anything about his gun aside from simply shooting it. Just different knowledge and skill sets.

carry on.

 

[Tokay444]

Fucking.
Mic.
DROP!

 

[6.5 GUY]

Already been discuss to the point of nausea

you don’t know how to shoot so stop telling us how to set up a rifle. you don’t know what you don’t know and trying to explain your empty vase.

 

[Tokay444]

Topic had nothing to do with scope tracking, but he could have sent that exact same message to you in regards to your goings on in this thread, and it would have been just as accurate.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Topic had nothing to do with scope tracking, but he could have sent that exact same message to you in regards to your goings on in this thread, and it would have been just as accurate.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...reference-spot-for-level.193420/#post-8575637

Really, sounds a lot like the same thing less the fixture involved.

You seem to think I keep getting on here to validate the best way to check scope tracking, and how to do it...... So what if I just hang a measuring tape off the backer board that sits in my backyard at 100 yards and look through the scope in a gun vise and dial away 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10 and 12.5 mils! What.... that's not how to do it correctly.... Or that if I shoot x yards with the same caliber I've been shooting for decades and I dial...... and Oh Wow, I hit the target..... But you'll say I'm still doing it wrong!?! Ok, Whatever!

This is how I check tracking, for the record.... I don't shoot a round either when I'm doing this. I know.... I haven't isolated the scope from the gun and that's because I have yet to see any difference in my shooting to care! This has worked for me just fine, but hey If anybody wants one, JC Steel Targets makes them. He showed me what he sells the other day and I'd have to say they're easy to use in the field. I thought they'd be good if your scope went AWOL during a match. Which has happened to me more than once.

There's 4 #6 lead shot bags on that lead sled, over 120 lbs with the gun, and yes I used a steel measuring tape a long time ago, 2006 for the backer board mounted into 4" PVC pipe in the ground. I've run the turrets up and down until my own head spun around and I still see the same amount of tracking, 9" 18" 27" 36"...... That's about as scientific as I need to shoot way the fuck out there @Tokay444! You do know we have a 6x5 22lr Thread on here you can post too!?!

What I'm riding your ass about is that you keep repeating the same thing over and over again! What you're MISSING is not just the target, but that I think you're one of those guys that talks to talk, but can't walk the walk!!!..... No matter what you keep repeating, you already know I'll beat you at precision shooting....... repeatedly..... and that bugs you!! I've seen your kind before, all show and no go..... plain and simple!

You're such a cocky smartass, I'd love to see how well you perform with bullets flying past you.... But that won't ever happen though, you're too busy sitting in your chair typing away in the comforts of your parents house..... or is this what you do at work?

I tried to be polite on post #83 and now here we are at #100 just so you can prove I'm wrong how many times now!

You should get out and shoot more often, maybe RO a few matches, get some firsthand experience. Podcast and this place will only take you so far. I'm actually a humble person.... You and your friend just bring out the worst in me, and I just think you have no glue about whom you're dealing with that's all.

Good luck in life, and Best wishes to you.... Really.