I was able to crank out the comparison video today. The bullet impacts at 100y really highlight the benefit of mid wave (cooled) thermal.
Night Vision It's here...VooDoo-M
- Thread starter Capt_Right
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Damn that HISS is looking pretty good, if only someone had one for sale *cough *cough. But in all seriousness, for the price and for the average Joe's needs. I still think the Yoter C can't be beat. That being said I can't wait for my ELR.
Voodoo and both UTC’s were practically similar. Seems like the Trij software might have a smidge extra processing to make things a bit more contrasty. Yoter was outclassed, but still held tough at 1/5th the price!
Great video, CR!
Great video, CR!
Great video, nice job. I have to say the Trij Xii was my fave on that run. The Voodoo seemed to have great definition on hot targets but the background was a bit more flat and gray whereas it seemed like the Xii gave more useful view of the terrain.
PS - I have a Cadex surveillance rig with all the trimmings which makes it really easy to take nice 4k through-the-scope video including with clip-on devices. I'm happy to offer video recording services to anyone who wants to loan me a device to record through. I will definitely take some through the xELR when I receive mine and compare it to the Tig I have.
I agree with the above, seems like the UTC Xii did much better with background image (almost like the M didn't auto adjust). Was this due to the settings / unit calibration? How did the M compare to the UTC to the eye?
Fantastic video and sweet units! Watching that flock of birds fly by at 430 yds was awesome
Fantastic video and sweet units! Watching that flock of birds fly by at 430 yds was awesome
The yoter was certainly outclassed, but did anyone else notice that you could see bullet fragments pretty easily with it? I'm guessing that it's due to the 40mk sensitivity?
Great video. It makes me anxious to get my hands on an xELR.
Great video. It makes me anxious to get my hands on an xELR.
That’s a good observation and I think it mostly has to do with the gain setting. I set the M low enough to get good detail out of hot objects, and it definitely mutes the background a little. If you check out my previous video I go through gain and sharpness settings and you can see the terrain detail come back.
On both UTC I wasn’t able to get much detail out of the cows no matter the gain.
I was going to comment on this. I don't have a voodoo M but I do have a voodoo S, and it gives fantastic terrain detail, and with a lower gain setting it brings out detail in animals very well (here are examples of both). I found that the animals were more crisp and carried more detail with the voodoo M compared to both UTC's. The HISS 320, while more sensitive, gave the worst image out of the 4 options.
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I think the PoT/Oasys software is more refined than in the now-ancient BAE/Trij/Oasys units.
Without really restrictive comparison test criteria, it’s difficult to get truly accurate results. Camera work is a problem too. Need to have identical manual White Balance, ISO, Shutter, Aperture, etc.
Without really restrictive comparison test criteria, it’s difficult to get truly accurate results. Camera work is a problem too. Need to have identical manual White Balance, ISO, Shutter, Aperture, etc.
I can't find the xELR's vertical FOV, but even using its horizontal FOV for both numbers, you get 1 FPA pixel per 0.362 square inches, and we know it will be well below that in reality.
@Conqueror you are Correcto. Looks like the XELR will be the new Kang on the hill in regards to FPA pixel density per Sq. Inch.
If all the other "ingredients" are optimized correctly, it should be an outstanding thermal clip on.
If all the other "ingredients" are optimized correctly, it should be an outstanding thermal clip on.
Does owning a HISS XLR put you on some crazy federal watch list? Or is that reserved for people that attend school board meetings?I
I'd still love to have one, but at $70k I can be content with *just* an XELR.
I'd still love to have one, but at $70k I can be content with *just* an XELR.
Depends upon how you got it and how publicly you show it off.
In my somewhat “limited” experience, posting reasonable proof of provenance, not concealing serial numbers, etc generally appeases them and they go on about their merry way.
Manufacturers are another thing. They all want to sell their goodies as much as possible, but too much posting of things that scare them can be counterproductive. PoT, Flir, L3, Wilcox, etc are all paranoid their toys will be found on the losing end of an ITAR violation, so they tend to just let the consumer market fend for itself.
I may be way off on this, but the vertical and horizontal FOV should be the same ratio as the vertical and horizontal pixels of the sensor. So it's 640x480 res. 480/640=0.75.
5.3°x0.75= roughly 4°. So 5.3×4° FOV.
or am I just confused?
5.3°x0.75= roughly 4°. So 5.3×4° FOV.
or am I just confused?
I will bet a dime to a donut you have it figured correctly.
That sounds like good logic to me.
Sounds reasonable. That would make the xELR the king by a healthy margin at 1 FPA pixel per 0.271 sq in.
Glad to see these military grade thermals hitting the civilian market. Pretty amazing and you clearly get what you pay for. However like Horta said, at 1/5 the price the Yoter isn’t doing too shabby. That was all done at 15x. For us poors, at 6-8x w/ 2x digital, it’s much better.
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@chase723 you are correct. At a certain point, better really is not "better" simply because of distance, shooting ability and bullet horsepower. You just reach the point of diminishing returns.
Kinda like is a 400 mph car better than a 200 mph car on the highway.
Either one is sure to kill you dead as a hammer.
Anything in the 1 FPA per 0.75 Sq. Inch density at 100 yards and lower than that, are all going to be very good long range performers.
Kinda like is a 400 mph car better than a 200 mph car on the highway.
Either one is sure to kill you dead as a hammer. Anything in the 1 FPA per 0.75 Sq. Inch density at 100 yards and lower than that, are all going to be very good long range performers.
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Horta probably has a 1/2 dozen of these 475 mph rigs on order. Just waiting by the mailbox for them to arrive.
I think he’s buying a few dozen xELRs so he can burn them in a pentagram and have the ashes morph into an INOD. 
Definitely following this thread. Am new to the thermal game but just spent a season coyote hunting with the HALO XLR. It’s good, but I miss my day reticle. The Voodoo M seems like a great balance of weight and capability.
Is this legit—are they really upgrading the display soon??
A minor question: I assume the voodoo m can take an external power supply, right? Hate CR123s.
Thanks
Wow this is really vivid!
Can you elaborate a little more on the 1280 displays they are contemplating.
Are they 1280 x 960 FLCOS or 1280 x 800 AMOLED etc etc. Would be nice to know exactly which 1280 HD display they are contemplating if they will tell you that much detail.
Another question is: Does the Voodoo run on rechargeable RCR 123's.
Those are a nice option to run when you don't want a bunch of external power cables running out of your thermals.
For some strange reason I can get about the same exact run time out of a rechargeable 880 mAh RCR 123 as I get out of a 1,600 mAh CR 123 lithium primary.
That does not make logical sense to me, but that is what I have repeatedly experienced in Flir Thermosight Pros. Go figure that one.
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I don’t know about rechargeables, but I would doubt it. The CR123 are in parallel for capacity, not higher voltage. It does come with a USB cable which can power it off of a power brick.
In today's world building a thermal that will not run safely on rechargeable batteries as well as primary batteries as part of its onboard powering system is pretty outdated logic IMHO.
Especially in light of how power hungry all thermals are. The ability to utilize a rechargeable such as a 16340, 16650 or 18650 indicates a manufacturer whose engineers are up to date on powering options and building a modern system in today's world.
Especially in light of how power hungry all thermals are. The ability to utilize a rechargeable such as a 16340, 16650 or 18650 indicates a manufacturer whose engineers are up to date on powering options and building a modern system in today's world.
1) Both Voodoos will run on external power. The USB>LEMO cable is included.
2) I have run the Voodoo-S on a rechargable CR124 (16340, I think) and it runs fine.
2) I have run the Voodoo-S on a rechargable CR124 (16340, I think) and it runs fine.
Horta you think or you know for sure it was a rechargeable RCR 123 coming off the charger hot at 4.2 Volts. Most of them are. 3.7 Volts nominal but come off the charger hot at 4.2 Volts
Would hate for one of these poor souls to be the test guinea pig that fry'd their $19.95 dollar Voodoo thermal.
You would be the hero if you for sure stuck a hot one in for a 100% confirmation.
If a burial were required, many would then offer their PallBearer services for free.
However, EBL does make a solid 3 Volt RCR 123 rechargeable that is solid as a rock. I run these in my sensitive devices that cannot take more than 3.6 Volts such as a COTI or Dbal A3. These batteries have the same voltage as primary CR 123 and are safe to use in anything rated for CR 123 primary batteries.
www.eblofficial.com
Would hate for one of these poor souls to be the test guinea pig that fry'd their $19.95 dollar Voodoo thermal.
You would be the hero if you for sure stuck a hot one in for a 100% confirmation.
If a burial were required, many would then offer their PallBearer services for free.
However, EBL does make a solid 3 Volt RCR 123 rechargeable that is solid as a rock. I run these in my sensitive devices that cannot take more than 3.6 Volts such as a COTI or Dbal A3. These batteries have the same voltage as primary CR 123 and are safe to use in anything rated for CR 123 primary batteries.
EBL 4 Pack CR123A 3V Lithium Battery 2400mWh with Micro USB Cable
Shop EBL 3V 800mAh CR123A Batteries for flashlight and cameras at eblofficial.com. High capacity and long life. Advanced USB charging design, can be fully charged in two hours.
www.eblofficial.com Any downside to running these 3V batteries across the board? I'd guess laser and light output would be reduced? How would the Voodoo M, S, NOX or other units play with these?Horta you think or you know for sure it was a rechargeable RCR 123 coming off the charger hot at 4.2 Volts. Most of them are. 3.7 Volts nominal but come off the charger hot at 4.2 Volts
Would hate for one of these poor souls to be the test guinea pig that fry'd their $19.95 dollar Voodoo thermal.
You would be the hero if you for sure stuck a hot one in for a 100% confirmation.
If a burial were required, many would then offer their PallBearer services for free.
However, EBL does make a solid 3 Volt RCR 123 rechargeable that is solid as a rock. I run these in my sensitive devices that cannot take more than 3.6 Volts such as a COTI or Dbal A3. These batteries have the same voltage as primary CR 123 and are safe to use in anything rated for CR 123 primary batteries.
EBL 4 Pack CR123A 3V Lithium Battery 2400mWh with Micro USB Cable
Shop EBL 3V 800mAh CR123A Batteries for flashlight and cameras at eblofficial.com. High capacity and long life. Advanced USB charging design, can be fully charged in two hours.
No downsides. Those batteries are good to go in anything requiring regular CR 123 3 Volt batteries.
Neither laser or light output is reduced. Only thing that might be reduced is the total run time on the devices as those are 800 mAh vs regular primaries are around 1,600 ish mAh but I have noticed that I get just about as much run time out of the rechargeables as I do the primaries.
The upside is that a lot of times you go out at night and use up 1/2 the juice in a primary CR 123 or thereabouts and you really don't know when it is going to run out but you continue to use it the next night so as not be wasteful with your batteries. Point being it could crap out on you at the worst possible time. With rechargeables you don't have to deal with that as you just recharge them up and start the night out with known fully charged batteries that likely will not crap out in one nights normal usage unless a horde of Zombies attacks your defensive position and you are forced to use the crapolla out of your laser dispatching them.
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Nice, I was just going to start looking for some good 3.0V RCR123. Is their peak discharge current the same as a CR123? Might not be an issue in thermals, but could be on flashlights.
Well regular CR 123 usually are peak discharge continuous 1 amp. The EBL's are 0.7 amp.
A lot of the high power White Lights like the Surefire M600 DF require high drain batteries which are usually 18650.
I run the EBL's in mainly Dbal A3, Pas 29 Coti and have run in Flir Thermosight Pros. They perform perfectly in those three items. FYI the Flir Thermosight Pro's will also run the hotter RCR 123 rechargeables that have a nominal 3.7 V and come of the charger at 4.2 V with no problems at all.
A lot of the high power White Lights like the Surefire M600 DF require high drain batteries which are usually 18650.
I run the EBL's in mainly Dbal A3, Pas 29 Coti and have run in Flir Thermosight Pros. They perform perfectly in those three items. FYI the Flir Thermosight Pro's will also run the hotter RCR 123 rechargeables that have a nominal 3.7 V and come of the charger at 4.2 V with no problems at all.
No pricing, has anyone in the US been able to buy any of this? Pretty cool lineup of products
I can’t find a single image of their products not released by the company. To me that says “still vaporware/in development.”
I’m not highly educated on the high end stuff but some of it looks very similar to L3 and DRS products so that would make sense. Curious what the I2 tubes are like in their fusion because that could make or break devices like that.
Something about imitation and flattery I guess
Got a dealer buddy of mine to message these guys about carrying their products a year ago...still no word back as of yet
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Update #1 - Over the summer my buddies and I got to a new level for long range shooting at night. Previously the furthest we have gotten hits was at 1,000 yards and that was using a PVS-27 clip on. Every time we tried to push it further we had trouble seeing our misses and it wasn't possible to correct. We even upgraded a couple PVS-27s and PVS-30 with new tubes from L3, Elbit, and Photonis. Although there was a significant improvement in performance, it really didn't result in longer range capability, at least not for our particular environment.
The next step was giving it a go with our thermal and heated steel at 1,214 yards. For this we had my VooDoo-M, a Trijicon UTC-Xii and a Flir HISS 320. We were able to see misses and hits with all 3x devices, and even though the HISS was only 320, the mid wave cooled thermal is still king when it comes to seeing trace and splash detail. The VooDoo-M and UTC Xii performed about the same where the splash was visible, but just barely. In this video the UTC Xii was being viewed through a spotting scope while the VooDoo-M was using the video out. The quality of the video out is not as good as what you see through the view finder, but as I mentioned in person they seemed very similar.
I also threw in a video of my PVS-27 which was re-tubed with a 2300 FOM Photonis tube. You can see the target, but you can't see the misses or hits.
Next stop is 1 mile, and we have some new acquisitions planned to help get us there...so stay tuned.
The next step was giving it a go with our thermal and heated steel at 1,214 yards. For this we had my VooDoo-M, a Trijicon UTC-Xii and a Flir HISS 320. We were able to see misses and hits with all 3x devices, and even though the HISS was only 320, the mid wave cooled thermal is still king when it comes to seeing trace and splash detail. The VooDoo-M and UTC Xii performed about the same where the splash was visible, but just barely. In this video the UTC Xii was being viewed through a spotting scope while the VooDoo-M was using the video out. The quality of the video out is not as good as what you see through the view finder, but as I mentioned in person they seemed very similar.
I also threw in a video of my PVS-27 which was re-tubed with a 2300 FOM Photonis tube. You can see the target, but you can't see the misses or hits.
Next stop is 1 mile, and we have some new acquisitions planned to help get us there...so stay tuned.
Maybe they should use one of the EVF screens found in the better Digital Cameras, like the Sony A1. Having a 9.44M-dot OLED electronic viewfinder would make zooming in to that screen a lot better.
I spoke with them again recently....and no plans on updating the displays in their current lines.
Did they say anything about possible future lines of products? I'd imagine the next lineup is 24 months out at least if so...
Any details on the above?
Also, I think the Voodoo-M is the way to go for me, unless I should wait a bit?
Voodoo-M or ELR. Really your only viable options for high-end uncooled. ELR is $6K cheaper right now since SOK is rockin’ their inventory for $14.5K new. Voodoo if you like having something few others do and TracIR is in the cards for you.
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