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Just ordered a Noveske 16 inch CHF Barrel. Set my expectations.

JS8588

Ballistic Hipster
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 7, 2020
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NEPA
With parts of the country literally on fire & DJT's re-election prospects looking inauspicious, I decided to finally get to work building a go-to carbine. I'm sparing no expense (I ordered a freaking $88 after shipping forged rifle receiver extension from Speciaized Armament for it). It will be topped with an Aimpoint CompM5 & cowitness fixed irons (LMT rear sight & probably a Midwest Industries HK style front).

Conventional wisdom dictates the barrel, bolt carrier, and trigger are the heart of a solid build. I decided to finally pull the proverbial trigger & order a Noveske 16 inch CHF/CL barrel. I had some credit with OpticsPlanet & a 10% off coupon. Came to like $420 shipped. They ain't gonna get any cheaper over the coming months.

Supposedly these are the best $$ can buy, save Hodge.

Temper my expectations. What has been your experience with this barrel?

At the moment my expectations are reliable, if overgassed (which I'm okay with. I want it to run any ammo in any conditions & I don't own or intend to own a suppressor...otherwise I'd have hunted down a Hodge). Accuracy expectations are 1.5-2 MOA 5 shot groups @ 100 yards with quality ammo. >2 moa with cheap stuff.

I haven't seen too many reports on a Noveske CHF barrel since Molon's evaluation circa 2009.
 
I never really tried to get good groups from one but zeroing the one that I shot that belonged to me I noticed the groups were considerably tighter than anything else there that day. John said in an interview that they were subminute shooters and I believe it.
 
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You wont be disappointed. Good headspaced bolt to the barrel extension helps. Although, this is rarely an issue with quality parts.

What is the twist rate? I'd guess 1:7.5?
Quality ammo of 62gr or better will probably give you best groups.
 
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You wont be disappointed. Good headspaced bolt to the barrel extension helps. Although, this is rarely an issue with quality parts.

What is the twist rate? I'd guess 1:7.5?
Quality ammo of 62gr or better will probably give you best groups.

I'll be getting an LMT Enhanced Bolt when they become available again.

Just picked up the lower from my FFL. MVB Ambi Forged lower.
 
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John said in an interview that they were subminute shooters

No, he didn’t. He weasel-worded his answer to that question by saying,

“I’m not sayin’ this from what I’ve shot. This is reports from customers . . . most everything I hear is sub-MOA ”

He also gave no indication whatsoever of how many shots were in the groups “from customers.”


...
 
Interesting and your memory is plainly better than mine.

It’s too bad we can’t get Aubert and Duval DI barrels.
 
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No, he didn’t. He weasel-worded his answer to that question by saying,

“I’m not sayin’ this from what I’ve shot. This is reports from customers . . . most everything I hear is sub-MOA ”

He also gave no indication whatsoever of how many shots were in the groups “from customers.”


...

And more importantly John has unfortunately been dead for a decade or so now. The barrels may no longer be up to his standards. I still believe they're likely some of the best barrels out of FN's factory.
 
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It’s a chrome lined FN barrel built to Noveske spec. It’ll be fine. Expect 1.5 moa groups with good ammo and solid shooting fundamentals. You can search the web for tests Molon has posted on several different chrome lined ar barrels. He posts solid, unbiased information. You can probably find it on the other forum you asked this question on.
 
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John Noveske was never one to overstate the facts. RIP friend.

When John received his first batch of hammer forged, chrome lined 14.5" (carbine length gas in those days) barrels from FN, he sent me a good number of them. I quickly built up two into complete uppers and headed to the local square range.

This was maybe 15 years ago now?

I threw my usual test mule Nightforce 5.5-22x50 NXS in LaRue mount on top and proceeded to shoot successive five-shot groups off a Harris bipod with four different brands of quality ammunition with each. No break in procedures whatsoever. No, I did not know back then that you could not expect optimum results without running at least ten rounds of a new format ammunition down a barrel before it would settle down and perform optimally. Luckily for me, it didn't matter much.

On the way home, I called John and asked him if he wanted the good news first, or the bad news.

John requested the good news first.

My reply was "They almost shoot as well as your stainless barrels".

Then, he asked for the bad news.

My response was "They almost shoot as well as your stainless barrels."

Both barrels produced four successive five shot groups at 100 yards for me with four different brands of quality ammunition from right at 1.0" down to 0.75".

Back then, these barrels were true featherweights, a full four ounces lighter than the Noveske SS barrel in the same length.

I've used ten times as many of these Noveske HFCL barrels since then as the SS barrels. The HFCL barrels are lighter and tougher than SS. Who really needs better than MOA accuracy in an AR' carbine, anyway? Who trains with ammo that will shoot better than MOA? Most importantly, who can shoot better than MOA off their hind legs?!?
 
I have one of the first 12.5 CHF Noveske barrels that came out. I got it directly from John as I had shot out two of his SS 12.5s at work. It is a solid MOA barrel with MK262 today and I have no clue hkw many rounds I have on it.

I also have a CHF 14.5 Mid that is almost 10 years old and is a MOA barrel.
 
IMHO, to help consistent precision, lap the upper receiver face flat, and SS shim / thermal fit / Loctite the barrel in place.

Not everyone feels it is necessary ( and it isn't, dependent on your role for the firearm ) but every time I have done it, group size has gotten better.... dependent on quality ammo , don't expect bulk FMJ's to fly better.

Use a quality lapping tool, cheap ones are crap... ( Wheeler ) and could cause more harm then benefit.

A snug fitting upper to lower will allow you to wield the firearm more consistently... I also consider that important.

For the naysayers .. I am not looking to start a disagreement discussion ... just suggesting some things to help with potentially better precision with the OP's chosen parts.

Please, let us know your builds accuracy results after you are done with your project, Thanks ahead of time.
 
I’m skeptical of lapping receiver faces. I don’t know that a guy with a drill is going to get a straighter cut than a CNC mill did and in any case the relationship of the barrel to the bolt is set by the hole in the receiver.
 
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I’m skeptical of lapping receiver faces. I don’t know that a guy with a drill is going to get a straighter cut than a CNC mill did and in any case the relationship of the barrel to the bolt is set by the hole in the receiver.


From what I have read, anodizing can be a factor , if not applied carefully. I spoke with a anodizing Rep. ( by chance meeting ) and he said it is very easy to have anodizing applied unevenly. Is it a cure all fix, nah .

I did have a upper that the barrel was so "off" centered, you could readily see the cant at the muzzle... lapping centered it .
And I fully agree some folks could mess it up, and lapping tool fit is critical.
I hear you, but I have seen the improvements first hand.
And frankly, you can see the results promptly while doing it... one side or the other always abrades away sooner.
And out of curiosity, have you tried it ? ( Not being a jerk, just asking ) If you haven't , I suggest you try it... done cautiously you don't have anything to lose.

This other persons thread is what made me alter my canted barreled upper. Good pics and fixed by Midwest Industries
I realize the link is a sample of one, but clearly the CNC machine ( ? ) or something was off.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Barrel-handguard-crooked-/118-743023/
 
Getting a nice commission check shortly. Thinking of making the trip out to EuroOptic to get the CompM5 unless there's a better option? The Hide seems pretty happy with EO from my reading so far.
 
Who really needs better than MOA accuracy in an AR' carbine, anyway? Who trains with ammo that will shoot better than MOA? Most importantly, who can shoot better than MOA off their hind legs?!?

Absolutely the real truth of the matter..................but bragging rights on internet forums for 1/2 MOA target give lots of guys a woodie. :ROFLMAO:

I really get a kick outta people wanting to put Bartlein barrels on 11.5" builds..................................... LOL

MM
 
I reluctantly admit that I enjoy doing dumb stuff like that.

Here's a half-MOA 12.5" with Bartlein barrel:

IMG_7206.jpg


Now, to produce groups like that I have to swap the LPVO for an Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25x56 and add a gigantic LRA bipod. No practical application but still interesting. 12.5" barrels are amazingly accurate, for some reason. John Noveske used to call them "PFM"....
 
MSTN, just out of curiosity, do you know who Noveske is sourcing their barrels from today, both CL & the SS versions?

Thanks.

MM
 
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I don't think that Pac Nor is back up & running again, but I've not heard anything recently either way.

MM
 
From what I have read, anodizing can be a factor , if not applied carefully. I spoke with a anodizing Rep. ( by chance meeting ) and he said it is very easy to have anodizing applied unevenly. Is it a cure all fix, nah .

I did have a upper that the barrel was so "off" centered, you could readily see the cant at the muzzle... lapping centered it .
And I fully agree some folks could mess it up, and lapping tool fit is critical.
I hear you, but I have seen the improvements first hand.
And frankly, you can see the results promptly while doing it... one side or the other always abrades away sooner.
And out of curiosity, have you tried it ? ( Not being a jerk, just asking ) If you haven't , I suggest you try it... done cautiously you don't have anything to lose.

This other persons thread is what made me alter my canted barreled upper. Good pics and fixed by Midwest Industries
I realize the link is a sample of one, but clearly the CNC machine ( ? ) or something was off.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Barrel-handguard-crooked-/118-743023/
I too lap all the upper receivers I’ve ever built. I don’t buy top of the line receivers, just look for whose forge it came from so I can bet on the forging holding together well. I always see either a bit of cant in the mock up fit, or at least uneven lapping pattern wear until it’s done. I don’t think it adds to accuracy as much as it helps to get an evenly applied amount of torque, as well as helping with the barrel assembly staying in perfect alignment with whichever sighting system is mounted on top of said receiver.
 
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Also to the OP, my latest build was a Noveske CHF CL, 16” mid length gas, and it is a bit over gassed, but fixed with a good buffer and spring upgrade. It shoots most lots of m855 right at an inch or better when I had a 4-14x on it for breakin/function testing...now it’s got a red dot so I couldn’t tell you any better than my eyes can do which is about 1 1/2”-2”. I really love the barrel though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you do really well with match ammo. Oh, and it’s a standard 1 in 7 twist btw. Hope you enjoy your new toy.
 
Also to the OP, my latest build was a Noveske CHF CL, 16” mid length gas . . . It shoots most lots of m855 right at an inch or better . . .


M855 isn’t even capable of shooting “right at an inch or better” even when fired from the machine-rested, bolt-action, heavy test barrels used in lot acceptance testing at Lake City.




lake_city_ammunition_performance_02-1500109.jpg





The Colt 16” HBAR barrel found on the Colt 6721 carbine is one of the most accurate off-the-shelf chrome-lined, NATO chambered AR-15 barrels that I’ve tested. It’s more accurate than any of the Noveske CHF barrels that I’ve tested.

When using match-grade hand-loads, the Colt 6721 barrel is capable of reproducible sub-MOA precision when fired from my bench-rest setup.




55_blitzkings_from_colt_6721_barrel_21_l-1500124.jpg




I’ve tested a variety of M855 loads using the Colt 6721 barrel and none of those loads were able to produce less than 2.3 MOA precision at 100 yards; with the average extreme spread of four different brands of M855 being 3.2" at 100 yards.



m855_from_Colt_6721_accuracy_table_01-1500110.jpg





...
 
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Noveske 16” N4 Barrel Accuracy Evaluation



16_inch_noveske_n4_02-1448322.jpg





I’ve posted short reviews of Noveske N4 Light barrels in the past, so for this article we’re going to take a more in-depth look at the Noveske 16” N4 Light barrel. For starters, Noveske’s nomenclature of “Light” for this barrel is somewhat misleading/confusing. When most shooters hear the term “light- weight” in regard to AR-15 barrels, they think of the “pencil” barrel profile of the original Colt M16/M16A1 and also the same light-weight profile of the Colt 16” carbine barrel found on the Colt 6520 and 6720. However, this is not the profile of the Noveske N4 Light barrel.




Colt M16/M16A1 barrel . . .

colt_20_inch_A1_barrel_02-1448324.jpg





Colt 6520 16” light-weight barrel . . .

colt_light_weight_barrel_with_gas_system-1448325.jpg





The stripped-weight (no flash hider, no front sight base/gas block, just the barrel and barrel extension) of the Colt 16” light-weight barrel is 1 pound, 6 ounces. The stripped-weight of the Noveske 16” N4 Light barrel is 1 pound, 12 ounces; which is the same stripped-weight of the Colt 16” government profile barrel found on the ubiquitous Colt 6920.


Colt 6920 government profile barrel . . .

Colt_16_inch_M4_profile_barrel_6920_05-1448323.jpg






Noveske 16” N4 Light barrel . . .

noveske_n4_16_inch_barrel_23-1448327.jpg





As you can see in the pics above, for the N4 Light barrel, Noveske has done away with the next-to-useless M203 (grenade launcher) cut-out found on the Colt government profile barrel. The N4 profile also has a more evenly distributed barrel diameter (and thus weight) fore and aft of the gas block journal, which moves the center of gravity of the barrel farther aft compared to a government profile barrel. This all makes for a superbly handling 16” barrel.

The reason that Noveske uses the “Light” nomenclature for their N4 barrels is simply because the N4 barrels are lighter than Noveske’s original medium contour stainless steel barrels. For comparison, the Noveske 16” medium contour Recon barrel has a stripped-weight of 2 pounds, 2 ounces and as mentioned above, the 16” N4 Light barrel has a stripped-weight of 1 pound, 12 ounces.


The Noveske 16” Recon barrel . . .

noveske_recon_barrel_out_of_the_box_fram-1448336.jpg






The Noveske 16” N4 Light barrel is a cold hammer forged barrel. It has a mid-length gas system, “M4” feed-ramps and a chrome-lined chamber and bore. The barrel has a 5.56mm NATO chamber and a 1:7” twist and has been high-pressure/magnetic particle tested; as the barrel stamp indicates. Contrary to erroneous Internet reports, the N4 barrel does not have polygonal rifling.


The barrel stamp . . .

nnef26zvhhneds44z1tgcut3kec4ybx0.jpg






The mid-length gas system . . .

noveske_n4_midlength_gas_system_01-1448329.jpg






For this evaluation, I used one of my standard match-grade hand-loads topped with Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings. When fired from my Krieger barreled AR-15s, this load has produced ½ MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards.




005_match_krieger_with_55_blitzkings_and-1448321.jpg






Three, 10-shot groups were fired in a row from the Noveske 16” N4 Light barrel from a distance of 100 yards with the resulting extreme spreads:

1.29”
1.18”
1.31”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.26”. The three, 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius of the 30-shot composite group was 0.37”.

After firing the above three groups, I fired an additional five, 10-shot groups in a row for a total of eight, 10-shot groups fired in a row. The average extreme spread for all eight of the 10-shot groups was 1.24”. I over-layed all eight of the 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form an 80-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 80-shot composite group was 0.39”.





....
 
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Noveske 14.5” CHF Barrel Accuracy



noveske_n4_14_5_inch_upper_01-1500154.jpg




The 14.5” N4 barrel was tested in the same manner as described above. Three 10-shot groups fired from 100 yards using match grade hand-loads had extreme spreads of:

1.029”
1.360”
1.275”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.22”. As above, I over-layed the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for that composite group was 0.37”.




...
 
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Molon,

It is possible that the poster in question was shooting 3 shot groups. I realize that's quaint around here, but it is theoretically possible he got ~1 moa 3 shot groups with m855 & was having a particularly good range day.

Once again, honored to have you on this thread.
 
Hey Molon,
That’s far more testing than I ever did on my Noveske barrel before I put on my red dot. I did shoot several five shot groups while scoped, when the build was done checking for function of the rifle. All were done with lake city m855 except one group with hornady 55gr ballistic tip which I use for hunting smaller game so I can get some expansion instead of the pass through that the m855 does on things like raccoon etc. The hornady did fare better in group size (just under 1” @100m) but the m855 did a couple right close to 1” (tape measure not calipers), as a couple others did have fliers that went out to about 1.5”. I’m sure I got lucky with the barrel, but I don’t dispute your data at all. Like I said, you do extensive testing and I’ve no more experience than this one Noveske barrel. Thank you for all the data and graphics, it was interesting to read through.
 
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Interesting and your memory is plainly better than mine.

It’s too bad we can’t get Aubert and Duval DI barrels.
@__JR__ can correct me if Im wrong, but Im almost certain that KAC uses Aubert Duval GKH steel for their cut rifled tubes. He talks about in a thread of mine in the vintage section. Same stuff HK uses for OTB HK416 barrels. I think the MR556 barrels are made by DD tho.
Bartlein also made some GKH barrels a lil while back, tho I believe it was for one specific customer

https://www.aubertduval.com/wp-media/uploads/sites/2/pdf/gb_GKH.pdf
 
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@__JR__ can correct me if Im wrong, but Im almost certain that KAC uses Aubert Duval GKH steel for their cut rifled tubes. He talks about in a thread of mine in the vintage section. Same stuff HK uses for OTB HK416 barrels. I think the MR556 barrels are made by DD tho.
Bartlein also made some GKH barrels a lil while back, tho I believe it was for one specific customer

https://www.aubertduval.com/wp-media/uploads/sites/2/pdf/gb_GKH.pdf
haha..almost never wins the race..

later..
 
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Got a note from OpticsPlanet this evening. Barrel will be shipping soon which means, if past is prologue, I'll have it in hand by the end of next week. Meanwhile, here's the build so far. Getting the CompM5 for it tomorrow.
20200721_181729.jpg
 
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@__JR__ can correct me if Im wrong, but Im almost certain that KAC uses Aubert Duval GKH steel for their cut rifled tubes. He talks about in a thread of mine in the vintage section. Same stuff HK uses for OTB HK416 barrels. I think the MR556 barrels are made by DD tho.
Bartlein also made some GKH barrels a lil while back, tho I believe it was for one specific customer

https://www.aubertduval.com/wp-media/uploads/sites/2/pdf/gb_GKH.pdf
You'd know I'd never disclose material source, but I can guarantee your certainty is amiss. that's the hahah, sources. Sources not me wouldn't know.

thanks
 
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shorter barrel means less impact from harmonics (everything being equal) so length doesn't necessarily lead to better accuracy, just more velocity/spin.
 
shorter barrel means less impact from harmonics (everything being equal) so length doesn't necessarily lead to better accuracy, just more velocity/spin.
Length can also mean less muzzle pressure which can lead to better accuracy. that's why guns are fun!
 
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Length can also mean less muzzle pressure which can lead to better accuracy. that's why guns are fun!
true that, especially with something like an air rifle pushing the projectile after it has left the barrel.
 
With parts of the country literally on fire & DJT's re-election prospects looking inauspicious, I decided to finally get to work building a go-to carbine. I'm sparing no expense (I ordered a freaking $88 after shipping forged rifle receiver extension from Speciaized Armament for it). It will be topped with an Aimpoint CompM5 & cowitness fixed irons (LMT rear sight & probably a Midwest Industries HK style front).

Conventional wisdom dictates the barrel, bolt carrier, and trigger are the heart of a solid build. I decided to finally pull the proverbial trigger & order a Noveske 16 inch CHF/CL barrel. I had some credit with OpticsPlanet & a 10% off coupon. Came to like $420 shipped. They ain't gonna get any cheaper over the coming months.

Supposedly these are the best $$ can buy, save Hodge.

Temper my expectations. What has been your experience with this barrel?

At the moment my expectations are reliable, if overgassed (which I'm okay with. I want it to run any ammo in any conditions & I don't own or intend to own a suppressor...otherwise I'd have hunted down a Hodge). Accuracy expectations are 1.5-2 MOA 5 shot groups @ 100 yards with quality ammo. >2 moa with cheap stuff.

I haven't seen too many reports on a Noveske CHF barrel since Molon's evaluation circa 2009.
Thought about ordering the same barrel for my M4 how do you like it so far ?