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Rifle Scopes Kahles GEN 2 w/ MSR 2 Arrived Today

Lowlight

Lowlight

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Minuteman
    • Apr 12, 2001
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    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    The New Kahles K624i Gen 2 with MSR 2 Reticle has arrived.

    here are some through the scope pictures I shot

    K6241Gen2 1.jpgK6241Gen2 2.jpgK6241Gen2 3.jpgK6241Gen2 4.jpgK6241Gen2 5.jpg

    One of the pictures of the Cable is a Hensoldt 4-16x Image ... for comparison
     
    I like that a lot. Very nice. Love the MSR 2 reticle.
     
    Last edited:
    LL is the glass that much better than the first generation? Im pretty impressed with my first gen mil 4....I do Love that MSR
     
    They definitely improved it, the feedback was, the S&B 5-25x was better, so they wanted to change that. I think the Gen 1 has excellent glass, but all that is subjective and if "X" number of people say, it could be better, well they responded and upped it a bit.

    After all Kahles is the sister to Swarovski so they have access to some of the best glass going.

    This is why I posted through the scope pictures immediately. Not so much about the reticle, but the image quality.
     
    What's the difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 MSR reticle. I have the S&B 5-25 MSR and it appears to be identical to the one in the pictures?
     
    What a great reticle. I love the open center with the dot. Like my IOR's MP-8.

    Wish they would make the 3-12x50 with that reticle and all same features as the K624i(turret mounted parallax and with illumination). That'd be a knockout for me.
     
    Is there any word on when these will be available and what the price difference will be between the MSR2 and Kahles current offerings?
     
    To me on a computer screen, the Henny appears to have a sharper brighter picture, but that could be a change in lighting conditions. LL, to your eyes which image do you like better between the Henny and the Kahles?
     
    Thanks for sharing the pics LL. I was thinking of another S&B 5-25x but am tempted to try out the Kahles.
     
    Bruno said:
    To me on a computer screen, the Henny appears to have a sharper brighter picture, but that could be a change in lighting conditions. LL, to your eyes which image do you like better between the Henny and the Kahles?
    Click to expand...

    Do you know which one is the Henny ?

    I personally think the Kahles was better, but you might need to know which one is which I don't think I ever said...

    Going from the Scope, to iPhone to Computer is a bit of a bitch as I was using my iPhone 5 and none of my "through the scope" units support that so the images are pretty inconsistent. Still I thought the new Kahles was better, and you can certainly see the purple everyone hates in the Henny... if people were to compare and they saw the color, it would cause a riot considering the price of the Henny.
     
    I will try to get some video of the reticle shot, I will move over to the iPhone 4 and the iWitness unit to see about getting cleaner images.

    The bitch is, me shooting it on video doesn't help you make the decision.

    I happen to like the MSR and I have in other scopes so the MSR is a good choice for me.
     
    Thanks for getting back LL, I guessed the Henny just based off the reticle. I know trying to get what your eyes see onto our computers is hard, and doesn't always look like it should. I appreciate you taking time to do this, and your response.
     
    What magnification were these pictures taken at? The clarity looks great, but the reticle might be a bit too fine for my taste. It seems to get lost in the background.
     
    Papagallos said:
    What about a video, Frank?

    I am torn between the Mil-4 and the MSR. I worry that I won't like the floating dot since I owned the Gen 1 Mil-4. :D
    Click to expand...

    I'm in the same boat, I've been wanting one of these since I first heard about them a few months ago but I'm not sure if I'm going to like the floating center dot. I still plan on getting one and I know this is going to be very subjective but I'd like to hear the opinion of those who've used the MSR2 vs the standard MSR and what they think of the dot vs solid cross.
     
    I can see one of these in my cabinet shortly. However in the uk we have see poor quality control with not only illumination bleed but objects in the tube.
     
    So there's talk in this thread about the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 MSR reticle. Fine.

    But I thought the Gen 2 Kahles 624i referred to a new glass formula, making these new scopes brighter and with better resolution than then the Gen 1 versions.

    Maybe Ken from Khybes Optics (the Kahles importer) will jump in here. I know he had mentioned a new glass formula in a talk I had with him at the SH Cup last month.
     
    Let me chime in :)

    The GenII K624i does have a new glass recipe, overall improving the optical performance of the K624i. Along with this new update, we also added two new reticles and even made the power throw lever slightly larger at the request of many of you:)

    The new reticles offered in the GenII, are the Kahles Proprietary MSRII as well as the Desert Tactical Arms, AMR,(Advanced Miling reticle) Both reticles are not the property of Kahles so there is a small royalty slightly increasing the price to, $ 3184 but only if a MSRII or AMR reticle is ordered. The Standard GenII K624i, will not reflect a price increase if ordering the MIL4 or MIL6 reticle, $ 3054.

    Regards,
    Ken

    Starbuck said:
    So there's talk in this thread about the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 MSR reticle. Fine.

    But I thought the Gen 2 Kahles 624i referred to a new glass formula, making these new scopes brighter and with better resolution than then the Gen 1 versions.

    Maybe Ken from Khybes Optics (the Kahles importer) will jump in here. I know he had mentioned a new glass formula in a talk I had with him at the SH Cup last month.
    Click to expand...
     
    Shoottothrill said:
    What's the difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 MSR reticle. I have the S&B 5-25 MSR and it appears to be identical to the one in the pictures?
    Click to expand...

    It has some Kahles tweaks. Differences are tad thinner hair line, and dot aiming point (origo) with open cross instead of solid closed cross.

    Std MSR hair line is 0.05mrad, Kahles MSR is 0.04mrad. It still looks about same on first glance compared to MSR on 5-25x- as Kahles low end magnification stops at 6x and 24x is highest.
    As comparsion, SuB P4F and H2CMR are both 0.035mrad, so Kahles is still thicker.


    MSR2 name is already reserved for much different design... ;)
    Kahles version would be more like MSR/K.
     
    Last edited:
    I originally mounted this on the Sniper's Hide prototype rifle, and had about an hour with it... which was good, but not enough.

    999982_10151825450807953_589029230_n.jpg


    Today I moved it to my AX so I could use it during the Oregon Sniper match and after spending all day, from 25 yards to 1100 yards, I am really liking this optic.

    It was a pretty awful day wind wise, it was just crazy, but this scope is spot on.

    Using the "dot" in the center is just awesome even at 14x & 16x, I was able to hammer the 3/8th inch dots on the Sniper's Hide target. Tracking was spot on, and it followed the software perfect out to 1100 yards.

    These new MSR-K reticles are kick ass and I think they can become a favorite for competition shooters. It's super easy to center and just drill them in there, plus if you do have to range you have the .1 MSR L to use.

    1175123_10151855832357953_482123950_n.jpg


    Really nice, made the day easy checking dope, and matching it to the new Applied Ballistics Kestrel
     
    So Lowlight would say that you prefer the dot cross hair of the Gen 2 over the standard cross hair of the MSR Gen 1?
     
    I used it at the Oregon Sniper Challenge and it was awesome. There were a ton of tiny sub MOA paper shots inside 100, in fact inside 50 yards and the scope was well suited for the job.

    Furthest we shot was out to 800 yards, and again no issues. I did shoot it at the home range to 1100 and find the new MSR-K reticle to be a nice improvement.
     
    Lowlight said:
    I used it at the Oregon Sniper Challenge and it was awesome. There were a ton of tiny sub MOA paper shots inside 100, in fact inside 50 yards and the scope was well suited for the job.

    Furthest we shot was out to 800 yards, and again no issues. I did shoot it at the home range to 1100 and find the new MSR-K reticle to be a nice improvement.
    Click to expand...

    Cool. I'm really thinking hard about one after getting my hands on one at the Cup this year. It didn't have the MSR but everything else about the scope I really liked.
     
    Frank could you post a reticle picture aginst a solid backdrop? Everywhere i look its listed as the MSR2 not MSR-K is it the same reticle?

    Thanks, alan
     
    I do like the redesign of the power throw lever. It is always good to hear that a company is responding to what their customers want and Kahles seems to really try hard to make their end users happy. I am always happy to hear about better optical quality, as I am a bitch when it comes to that. From what I am hearing Kahles has made more quality improvements than any other optics mfg catering to this market in a year or two. I know other have made changes and came out with some really innovative products and my hats off to them but for me they have all been more "gimmicky" than anything else. I know the BEAST has some bad ass features but I just don't want an over complicated mechanism that I just don't need. I could only wish the ATACR was FFP. S&B hasn't done anything earth shattering eighter but they are pretty good as is. However no matter how much I do love the S&B their amount of failures seems to have gone up (I just had one go down on me at the first of the year and it was a mfg QC problem, that was quickly repaired and returned back to service better than new). That has me thinking more and more if it will happen again :(, and maybe looking at an other brand. I bought a K624 when they first came out and it was very nice but I just liked my Benders better so I traded it for a scope for my rimfire, but I bet it is still up and running strong. It may be time to look into the latest version of the K's.

    Thanks for taking the time for the update Frank, I look forward to more...
     
    [MENTION=47369]sch2046[/MENTION] I don't remember exactly and the AX is on the way back to CO, so when I get their I will confirm, but I believe on the 25MOA GDI Mount i had about 19 Mils
    [MENTION=32298]Alan_H[/MENTION] the FinnAccuracy guys are on SH and there is an Official MSR Thread on here. Call the reticle in the Kahles the MSR 2 is completely wrong. FinnAccuracy is reserving that designation for themselves. I am not sure if they posted here in public or private, but the better description is the MSR-K as I have been using.

    I still don't get where the Beast's "gimmicks" are.. so I just chalk it up to ignorance on the system. The MST-100 was never called gimmicky and it had throw levers since 1978. As noted in the other thread, any options on these scope you don't understand look no further than the Army or Horus. The military dictates a brake (or lock) and they also want a lot of travel in a single turn, so you have you to ask. How do you get 20 mils of adjustment in 1 turn without having the issue Premier did with the clicks being so close together you miss them. NF solved this with the lever, while meeting the requirements the Army has asked for. The scope is shorter than a S&B, has a more generous eye box, as well as greatly improves the glass, so what is gimmicky ? I agree what the Horus people want is not necessary for the masses, but if you want a military contract you have to caterer to both them and Horus.

    Using the Kahles was awesome, I really like it. Still it was bit tough focusing down to 25 yards without being a 12x or less, and the targets they used were about 1/2" so that wasn't great, but everything else was flawless for me. The biggest thing was, the adjustments were true and that made my dope spot on with the AB Kestrel. The conditions weren't great, the humidity was high, the heat was up there, I had not cover on my suppressor, and there was a ton of dust. Still I managed to see and hit. So for me it's a good competition scope.
     
    LL, I didn't mean to say the turret system on the BEAST is a gimmick. I was referring to some other options that have been released by other companies (specifically the current offering from Hensoldt, a 3.5-26 for the price they are asking is a gimmick in my book). I actually hold NF and its people with the highest regard and this is from more than a consumer level, its on a personal level. I can see where the throw lever has its place and I am very familiar with what it takes to get a military contract. I suppose I should have worded my statement a bit different. I was actually trying to point out the fact that NF did a good job on the BEAST (from what I can tell about it with out actually using it) but I just have no need for it. You have to admit the more complex a system is the more chance there is for a failure and with out the true need for a super fast elevation adjustment why pay extra for it and the potential extra problems it may bring along with it? If NF would offer the ATACR in FFP or the BEAST with out the throw lever I would sell my Hensoldt and Bender to get set up with nothing but the NF. However until that happens the Kahles is looking like a very good option.

    I just wanted to make sure I was understood and that I was not shitting on NF in any way! So back on track...
     
    Last edited:
    I will be getting my new DTA Covert this Friday 9/6/13 I will be gett one of the first 7 scopes with DTA's AMR reticle. I will try to post some pics once I receive it.
     
    I really like the .2 mrad subtensions of the DTA reticle.
     
    I just received mine today from Mike at CS Tactical and it looks and feels like a great scope. The reticle clicks are very solid and feel better then my EREK on my USO. So much so that I feel like I should send my USO back to the factory to see if there isn't something wrong with them. The MSR-K reticle doesn't feel cluttered and the magnification adjustment is smooth and easy to manipulate. All and all a great scope and I can't wait to mount in on my rifle from Marc at Spartan when it is done. I spoke with the US importer, Khaybes Optics, and it looks like a they are working on releasing some flip up scope caps and other related products in the future.
     
    Sniper's Hide, my wallet, bank account, kids' college funds, 401K's, and wife hate you!!!
     
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