Another fake equivalency. Don't buy long-OAL mags, which are clearly advertised as such, and you'll never have to wonder if you need to modify your action.
- Thread starter southerngolfer
- Start date
Okay. I have been following the whole T3 in a KRG thing and the big complaint that the chassis won't accept the tikka mags. Here's my take, as I own a T3 that came in a chassis in addition to my regular 700 pattern rifles using aiag mags.
In short, the less expensive Tikka mags are too cheaply made and failed multiple times during any match I used them in. Go back to the pictures posted earlier comparing mags and notice particularly the thin-ness of the metal that the tikka mags have vs the double thickness on aiag pattern mags.
Every one of my tikka mags would bend the feed lips after being used under match conditions and then not feed correctly. They are just not made for that application. They worked fine on the bench and during load work up where everything is controlled, but as soon as they were wrung out under actual hard use, they would bend and fail.
That may never be the case when used with a standard tikka stock, I don't know, but with a chassis, give me a mag that was made to be used outside of the kitchen table under real use anytime.
In short, the less expensive Tikka mags are too cheaply made and failed multiple times during any match I used them in. Go back to the pictures posted earlier comparing mags and notice particularly the thin-ness of the metal that the tikka mags have vs the double thickness on aiag pattern mags.
Every one of my tikka mags would bend the feed lips after being used under match conditions and then not feed correctly. They are just not made for that application. They worked fine on the bench and during load work up where everything is controlled, but as soon as they were wrung out under actual hard use, they would bend and fail.
That may never be the case when used with a standard tikka stock, I don't know, but with a chassis, give me a mag that was made to be used outside of the kitchen table under real use anytime.
Then I can't run a 6.5 CM with a factory barrel and a bullet .030 off the lands.
Used mine in a small handful of matches and have had zero issues. Are you talking about the regular Tikka DBM or a CTR mag? I agree their non-CTR mag isn't great, and I don't think anyone has argued for a stock cut to use that mag.
- If you can't do that with AICS magazines, then you can't do it with CTR magazines.
- The real reason you can't do it isn't the magazines. It's the length of the bottom cutout in the receiver
- If you can only seat 30 off the lands for acceptable accuracy you need a different, more tolerant load
I can do it with CTR mags. I can't do it with AICS mags with binder plates. I'm getting the impression you have no idea what you're talking about?
My best load is .030 off the lands. It shoots about 1/2 MOA with a factory rifle. You're suggesting that I should accept inferior accuracy to change to a mag system since KRG won't inlet for the CTR? That's really your response?
This thread is getting laughable, to say that least.
If a round loaded .030 off the lands fits through the fucking hole at the bottom of your action, what fucking difference does it make what magazine it comes out of?
You seem hell bent on bending facts/stating half truths to suit your narrative.
I am talking about CTR mags in a chassis. In this case, the Mcrees G10 chassis that was provided as part of the Tikka T3 TRS1 package. Like I said, go back and take a look at the mag comparison pictures posted on page one and it's obvious that the CTR mags are made from much thinner material and the feed lips are not supported with welds in any way. You can bend them with your fingers. Ask me how I know.
You seem to be pretty defensive about this, so realize that I am not against Tikka rifles in any way. I like how smooth the action is, the bolt throw, the fact that it shoots lights out and may just be one of the most useable rifles straight from the factory.
However, the CTR mags are most definitely inferior to the mags costing twice as much. No question about it. There's a reason that they cost less and it's not because Beretta is a benevolent importer. Deny it all you want, but truth is truth.
I would be the last person to stop anyone from doing just exactly what they want unless it's hurting another. I do however want people to know what they are getting into. You do what you like and believe what you will.
I'm a mechanical engineer and I can certainly understand design issues and their possible impact on the functionality of a product. I'll go take a look at that post.
My point about the CTR mags is that me and the others I know who own CTRs have literally had zero issues feeding, loading, scratching brass, or chasing the lands as far as OAL goes, and we have no need to dremel our actions to run longer rounds.
And on the flip side, I have yet to find an AICS mag that doesn't have consistent reviews of at least one of those being an issue. If you want to talk about metal thickness, I suppose you can, but I'm not sure how that directly impacts the reliability of the mag unless you're using it as a hammer or something as long as the metal is thick enough to handle basic wear and tear (a requirement which the CTR mag certainly appears to satisfy).
I'm not defensive about the CTR mag at all. I'm a bit defensive about it when people make up things that are patently not true to fit their argument (308pirate) because of their blatant ignorance, and then use that same post and false logic to question my motives. I've researched the issue a good bit because I really wanted to buy a Bravo. But I couldn't find any mag that fit all those requirements based on reading numerous reviews. Due to that, I consider it an inferior system. I'm sure lots of folks have no issues and a few do, just like the CTR system. But for a CTR user who has no issues, it looks awfully inferior to see all the issues related to different mag options when you're talking about spending $60-$70 on a mag and hoping you don't create reliability issues just because you want to make a stock upgrade.
I'm not anti-KRG or anything like that. I WANT one. But after doing the research, it just doesn't make sense to switch if you're currently running a CTR with no mag-related issues. And it's frustrating that they can't inlet for one of the most popular factory LR guns out there.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I do not understand the fanboy attitude around this stuff where some folks (not you) attack people when they try to offer a different perspective. I hope you guys are happy with what you've bought - that's all that really matters.
Ask MDT - they're the ones who suggest it might be required. I'm not making this stuff up. google is your friend
The language is unnecessary. This forum needs an 'ignore' feature...
You didn't understand them then
I’ll disagree to the language comment but there is an ignore option already. Click on the user name, a box pops up, ignore is the second option along the bottom.
Ignore is a sweet option... I ignored Maser years ago, I'm guessing I haven't missed out on any real nuggets of wisdom there.
I do not doubt that you and yours have had zero issues. Are any of you running them in a chassis?
It is definitely an issue with the McRee G10 chassis mag fit, and it is designed for the CTR mags (came with one). It may very well be that McRee did not vet the mag well design for the CTR well enough, but the issue is that the CTR mag hits the chassis when loaded in hard (under timed situations) or when the mag is set on a barricade. This ends up bending those thin feed lips (yes, they are thin and easily bent).
I suspect that if and when KRG addresses this, since it has already been said that they might now take a look at CTR mags in the future, that they will be cognizant of any potential interference issues and come up with a better designed mag well that does not impact or damage the CTR feed lips. Maybe this discussion will even be remembered and allow them the foresight to do so. I do not currently own a KRG product, but from all that I've seen and the products that I've put my hands on, I have the distinct impression that they like to do things right.
Let’s just remember the original CTR is fitted with TRG 22 mags.
CTR specific version is just a plastic bottom TRG mag.
If you ensure it’s setup correctly they have no issues.
Also, I like Aics because they are strong and like that you can strip them completely including the bottom plate for maintenance.
CTR specific version is just a plastic bottom TRG mag.
If you ensure it’s setup correctly they have no issues.
Also, I like Aics because they are strong and like that you can strip them completely including the bottom plate for maintenance.
I have 3 CTR mags, 1 is an original CTR/TRG22 mag, the other 2 are the T3x CTR mags that I paid $60 and $70 for. I used them in a factory CTR stock with the 260 barrel and then in a German Gun Stock Predator with the aluminum mini-chassis and the factory bottom metal. They fed great with the 260 and now with 6.5 Creed ammo with a new barrel. They are not "thin metal" or Sako wouldn't have used them in the TRG. The only issue I ever had was when I tried loading a 140 RDF too long with the factory 260 barrel. I recently had them cerakoted as one was rusty when I bought it used.
I did have feeding issues when I put too much pressure on my CTR mags on a barricade, but I have seen that happen with AICS mags too. I have found that is what the mag well or a barricade stop is for, not the magazine. I am going to build a true heavier match rifle on another Tikka action and I am going to use a Bravo or another chassis that uses AICS magazines as I am going to a BR based round, 22 BR, 6 BRX, or Dasher. I am definately not against AICS mags, but I do like the CTR magazines.
Attachments
Going to have to weigh in with Lash on this one. I had issues with my CTR mags (one a TRG mag), and just said screw it and migrated to a chassis with AICS mags (which I already had for other rifles). No problems since. Gave the mag to a buddy that primarily hunts (no matches) and it works fine for him after tweaking the spring and feed lips back (pretty sure I dropped it out of the rifle on a mag change, and when it hit the ground, it did so on the feed lips, bending them).
Take it for what its worth, just another person's experience.
Take it for what its worth, just another person's experience.
Check this out.
Size difference aint big for MDT 10-rnd AICS magazine and Tikka CTR magazine.
But take a look the material difference.
Tikka has thin steel material on the magazine, but MDT had beefy structure.
If you are competition shooter, where gear are getting quite hard beating, which one of these magazines can take competition beating?
Size difference aint big for MDT 10-rnd AICS magazine and Tikka CTR magazine.
But take a look the material difference.
Tikka has thin steel material on the magazine, but MDT had beefy structure.
If you are competition shooter, where gear are getting quite hard beating, which one of these magazines can take competition beating?
how do the KRG mags work for the Tikka's? Do you get without the plate? I anticipate getting a Bravo in the next few weeks and was/am going to pick up the KRG mag with the order.
On another note I would like to see more painted Bravo's. I used to be a fan of the all black but love the look of the Maners and the GGS.
On another note I would like to see more painted Bravo's. I used to be a fan of the all black but love the look of the Maners and the GGS.
Exactly my point. The difference is real.
I do not make it a regular practice to use my magazine for anything other than presenting rounds to be fed into the chamber. However, weird stages sometimes put you in a spot that requires whatever you have to do to get the shots. In addition, if a mag cannot take being fed into the mag well with force during a moving mag change, then it is not going to find much time in my match rifle. A casual or bench use rifle, sure.
I slam my mags in hard on my Tikka and can honestly say that I have never bent the feed lips on any of the 3. I did take a flat blade screwdriver to the notch on the back of the mags and bent it out a little more so they will lock in easier. I can say that I have not dropped one at a match, yet. I do like the looks of the MDT magazines. Does anyone know if they will work for the BR based rounds?
Big thing and importand thing is, that inevitably you will drop you magazine, and there will not be soft ground underneath, and that kind of thin wall magazine will bend when it drops to concrete or a rock surface.
I did get failure one of my Tikka magazine, when i used GRS Berserk stock, and i had to fix it a quitea bit with pliers, that i could make it work again.
Few times i have dropped these MDT magazine to rocky ground, and nothing happens.
I did get failure one of my Tikka magazine, when i used GRS Berserk stock, and i had to fix it a quitea bit with pliers, that i could make it work again.
Few times i have dropped these MDT magazine to rocky ground, and nothing happens.
broke down and orderd one just now for the Tikka. Got the KRG mag without binder plate will let you know “my” experience down the road if I remember.
Question for you and anyone else who may know. How much does it cost to have the Bravo inleted to accept Tikka bottom metal and mags? I know on the Tikka thread it was mentioned that some people had this done. I also know it adds cost and may defeat your purpose but if it cost around as much as a mag but now you can run Tikka factory?
That gunsmith needs to be good, who can do that.
KRG Bravo does not have bottom metal, it´s one big bottom metal down there, so im not sure how you could drop ctr bottom metal here, since the trigger guard is also one plase what connected action screws to the action.
This picture is Remington, but there are no big difference on how it looks.
Thanks. Some on the tikka thread were mentioning it was done. I have no intentions of going that route I’m fine with AICS.That gunsmith needs to be good, who can do that.
KRG Bravo does not have bottom metal, it´s one big bottom metal down there, so im not sure how you could drop ctr bottom metal here, since the trigger guard is also one plase what connected action screws to the action.
This picture is Remington, but there are no big difference on how it looks.
I have 2 Tikka Bravo chasis that work perfectly with 5 and 10 rounds AICS mags and Accurate magazines too. As said before AICS mags are the "industry standard" and can be used in many other platforms so having a bunch of them is just a "one time" investment for a long run. My two cents.
The mag opening would have to be squared up as the CTR mags do not have the back to front taper that the AICS mags have. You would also have to buy the TRG mag release from KRG. Anyone that can run a mill can do it.That gunsmith needs to be good, who can do that.
KRG Bravo does not have bottom metal, it´s one big bottom metal down there, so im not sure how you could drop ctr bottom metal here, since the trigger guard is also one plase what connected action screws to the action.
This picture is Remington, but there are no big difference on how it looks.
Okay guys, which AICS/Accurate Mag/MDT models come without a binder plate? I keep looking but my google fu is weak!
These are the MDT 10 round w/o the binder plate.
https://mdttac.com/products/mdt-metal-magazines-short-action?variant=134149898246
https://mdttac.com/products/mdt-metal-magazines-short-action?variant=134149898246
This one beats them all: http://www.alphaindmfg.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51
The maximum internal overall length of the Alpha type 2 magazine is 2.965.
This magazine is constructed without a spacer plate inside the front shoulder of the mag body. This mag affords the shooter more options with regards to custom hand loads,longer seating lengths.
No more hacking, drilling and welding on AI style magazines to remove spacer plates. The Alpha Type 2 magazine gives the most internal OAL for the short action rifle platform.
I have two and they superior to the Magpuls and MDTs that I've had
Anyplace to get them that doesn't require PayPal? I prefer shops that take Visa, MC, and such.
You use your credit card to pay through a PayPal portal. You don't actually need a PayPal account yourself.
I have MDT mag with out bp.
I swapt my 260rem Tikka for the KRG chassis.
Timney trigger, Kahles K624i scope, Spuhr mount, Atlas prs bipod, Tikka TAC A1 muzzle brake, Riffle stick grabbler feets, MKMachining goods in the scope.
It is about 2,2lbs lighter than same package with the MDT ESS chassis.
Timney trigger, Kahles K624i scope, Spuhr mount, Atlas prs bipod, Tikka TAC A1 muzzle brake, Riffle stick grabbler feets, MKMachining goods in the scope.
It is about 2,2lbs lighter than same package with the MDT ESS chassis.
I asked about the possibility of a Sako green option for the Howa Bravo when I ordered mine back in July - the answer then was NO.
I'm sure that answer might change, but they gave no indication it was in the near future.
Bob S.
thread jack,
guys I'm selling a KRG enclosed forend that will fit the Bravo in the PX section. they are out of stock at KRG - jump on it and save a few $$
guys I'm selling a KRG enclosed forend that will fit the Bravo in the PX section. they are out of stock at KRG - jump on it and save a few $$
Apologies if this has been asked, but; It's my understanding that a KRG folding butstock can be put on the rear? Also, can the KRG IRNV rail be added to the fore end?
I would not be surpriced if that KRG folding stock would fit in, because Bravo plastic parts fits 100% on to the Sako TRG alloy skeleton backbone.
Cheers! Seems the IRNV fits too, thanks heaps.
Right from the Bravo product page on the KRG website:
Buttstock:
- Very strong reinforced polymer material.
- Mounting points for external QD cup.
- Built in thumbshelf for same-side-thumb-grip shooters.
- Can be configured with a continuous angled lower surface or a "butthook" configuration
- Modularity with X-ray and Whiskey-3 back ends, either of those will fit on Bravo and vice versa
Also noticed this morning (when I ordered one) that the Bravo back end is available as an upgrade to the X-Ray. Very cool.
