Ladder Test- Hide Input wanted on the next step

[Deleted member 113831]

I want to see it at 100 first, then the winner at 500.

In my experience .005" seating depth change is big enough to show dramatic difference.

5 rounds not only shows group size, but group shape. I want to know if the group is going to cluster up or string out vertically or horizontally. It gives a much wider window into what is happening for a mere 2 extra rounds. Well worth it IMO.

 

[Sheldon N]

DK, Im wanting yall to tell me what I should do for developing and Ill do it (Ive pretty much done it all before already on this barrel, just didnt document it as well as I would have liked for sharing after the fact, I deleted all the stuff that didnt have the exact load I wanted portrayed in it so lots of data missing for the other areas). But on target at distance is the final judge for me.

That's the key IMO. While there are lots of directions you could go, as long as you are methodical in your approach and are basing your decisions on performance on target then you'll end up in a good spot.

I'm personally stuck using OCW and velocity metrics at 100 yards because that's the only distance I can shoot paper at. All my long range options are in locations where there's no ability to set paper. If I had the ability, I'd probably be doing ladder or OCW style tests at distance. I suppose there's hope for me still though, because I think Bart Sauter of Bart's Bullets did his tuning/testing primarily at 100 yards before shooting the world record 0.282" 600 yard group.

 

[Lynn Jr]

3 shot groups tests the guns capability and 5 shot groups tests the shooters capability.

The video shows Bob Hoppe telling those that listened he uses the same load all year and doesn't change it constantly like was posted here.

The pictures from the original poster are too cluttered for me to see what he is getting.
He needs to take out a measuring tape and list the difference between each shot in only the vertical direction.
That means he can have two shots 4 inches apart horizontally but only 3/8 vertically.
We are only interested in the vertical.
I see someone posted 6 people like this and 5 people like that and 1 person likes something else.
Opinions don't mean much when reloading because the gun will tell you on paper what it likes.

5 of my friends said I looked great 1 doctor said I had kidney cancer kind of a thing.

 

[Subwrx300]

3 shot groups tests the guns capability and 5 shot groups tests the shooters capability.

The video shows Bob Hoppe telling those that listened he uses the same load all year and doesn't change it constantly like was posted here.

The pictures from the original poster are too cluttered for me to see what he is getting.
He needs to take out a measuring tape and list the difference between each shot in only the vertical direction.
That means he can have two shots 4 inches apart horizontally but only 3/8 vertically.
We are only interested in the vertical.
I see someone posted 6 people like this and 5 people like that and 1 person likes something else.
Opinions don't mean much when reloading because the gun will tell you on paper what it likes.

5 of my friends said I looked great 1 doctor said I had kidney cancer kind of a thing.

He did exactly this on the left side of the group photo....

 

[spife7980]

On that target I should have put the comparison lines in order of lowest charge to highest left to right. I had that thought after the third one... which was already out of order lol.

I agree. That .005 in seating depth can make big changes.

But we are at 1 vote for .010 and 1 for .005 increments.

And 1 vote for 3 shot groups to 1 for 5 shot groups.

Seems to be leaning towards doing it at 100?

 

[Lynn Jr]

You are making too many changes in my opinion.
Leave the seating depth at the longest length you will ever use and don't touch it at all until you have your powder charge.
Looking at the left side of the photo doesn't tell me what I am after.
I will draw it up on paper and take a picture so you can better see what the goal is.

 

[Sheldon N]

Seems to be leaning towards doing it at 100?

As long as you post and show us how the options did at 500 yards after the fact. I'd be curious how the load you develop at 100 with OCW stacks up at the end of it all. Be sure to include one that's in that 3050fps range.

And I dont see how people are running 3050 with H4350, thats scary fast but Ive heard people reference it as well.

Realized I never answered this... I don't think 3050fps with a 105 is crazy fast. If you look at the article from precision rifle blog on the cartridge choices of the PRS shooters, it gives the average velocity for all shooters using a given cartridge. 6XC has been at 3050-3070 the last couple times in the survey. Guys also run that speed from a 6x47 which is a smaller case. Quickload puts that speed/pressure in the 6XC at around 60kpsi, which is below max. David Tubb in his article on the 6XC says his load is 39.5gr of H4350 for a 115 DTAC. I wouldn't be worried about getting up around 40-41gr of 4350 with a 105.

There's something to be said about load development by following those who have successfully loaded for a cartridge before.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Alright if you look at this picture it shows a 9 shot ladder test with each hit numbered.

 

[Lynn Jr]

We completely ignore the horizontal and this is what the vertical looks like.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Now shot number 5 showed where the barrel is approaching the top of its arc.
Once you have that you move the bullet in only one direction because you started at the maximum length you will ever use.
You will never have any pressure issue doing it this way.
Now you play with the seating depth in 0.005 increments shooting 3 shot groups until you are 0.030 off of the lands.
If your using VLD bullets you would then go in 0.040 increments until you found a second spot were accuracy was good up to 0.200 off the lands.
If your shooting lathe turned solids you would start at touching the lands and move shorter in 0.020 increments until best accuracy is found which is generally right at the lands and 0.060 off.
You need to use a comparator to set your seating depth and only shoot rounds that are within 0.001 of each other.
With mass produced bullets you can get wild extremes in one box.
Once you have your optimized seating depth you go back to your powder charge and look on both sides of it because nodes have width.
If your using multiple different powders the nodes width will change.
Faster powders will have a narrower node than slower powders.
Best accuracy is always at the halfway point or higher on the node. If our node runs from 64-66 grains of powder best accuracy will be between 65 and 66 grains.

 

[Sheldon N]

@Lynn Jr

He did the same thing in his powder ladder. Just 2 shots per charge instead of 1. And he didn't label the target the same way, but if you look at the charge weights it's the same thing. Just read his handwriting. Nodes are at 37.9-38.5 and 39.7-40.0 (and likely just above 40.0).

You get the added bonus of looking at 2 shots per charge weight, so you can see how well each pair of charge weights held vertical when compared against the other equal charge, and you can base your evaluation on an "average" vertical POI. Gives more validity to the ladder.

Here it is, converted to a 1 through 10 scale for each charge weight in ascending order, from the midpoint of the shot pairs. You can see that weights 3,4,5,6 actually invert a bit with higher charge weights hitting lower on target. However, each pair doesn't have great vertical and more importantly they are around 2900fps which is just silly slow for a 6XC with a 105.

Things start getting promising again around 9,10 etc which is approaching the 3050fps node.

 

[Lynn Jr]

What I am seeing is the shots going backwards at 4,5 and he never reached pressure.
When you get above the high node the vertical change per grain of powder will drastically change.

 

[RadKad]

I am learning a lot, this is a great lesson for those of us trying to find a good load. If he had only 100 yards to test would doing the same testing under a chronogragh and using a low es and sd provide the same results for the 500 yard initial ladder test? Also, did you let the barrel cool for a little while between shots or fire a warm up round then shoot the entire ladder? I know my 6 creed would be on fire after 20 rounds. Im glad spife7980 has opened this up.

 

[spife7980]

I am learning a lot, this is a great lesson for those of us trying to find a good load. If he had only 100 yards to test would doing the same testing under a chronogragh and using a low es and sd provide the same results for the 500 yard initial ladder test? Also, did you let the barrel cool for a little while between shots or fire a warm up round then shoot the entire ladder? I know my 6 creed would be on fire after 20 rounds. Im glad spife7980 has opened this up.

I shot for a bit before checking zero and group size @ 100 and then plinking 20 rounds or so with it 5-800 to get me warmed up but then the test took me 2 hours to do, averaged around 5 minutes between shots Id guess, enough to keep the barrel warm but I didnt let it get hot.

I doubt that when shot at 100 yards you would be able to tell any of the difference in vertical like at 500 where the bullets additional time in the air can exaggerate the effects of velocity. The chrono numbers would have been the same, but the results on paper would have been a 1" cluster or something.
I want to get adams shot marker so I can set it up to shoot through it at 100 with an empty board and then have the paper at 500 catch the shots. Then I could compare the electronic log of the shots behavior at 100 with the actual results on paper at 500. But thats at 100 and I shoot across a big creek valley, the 100 yard stand would be super high in the air, like 30 feet up, to line up with my 500 yard target. So Im not super motivated to get it and try this testing myself.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I am learning a lot, this is a great lesson for those of us trying to find a good load. If he had only 100 yards to test would doing the same testing under a chronogragh and using a low es and sd provide the same results for the 500 yard initial ladder test? Also, did you let the barrel cool for a little while between shots or fire a warm up round then shoot the entire ladder? I know my 6 creed would be on fire after 20 rounds. Im glad spife7980 has opened this up.

For those reading if you want to do multiple tests do them on separate targets not the same target.

 

[RadKad]

Would just doing a chronograph test at 100 give you close to the same data as a 500 yard ladder test? Meaning the load with the best sd and es would be the same as shots coming together at the ladder test?

 

[Sheldon N]

If he had only 100 yards to test would doing the same testing under a chronogragh and using a low es and sd provide the same results for the 500 yard initial ladder test?

I'm about to work up a load on a new barrel with a new bullet I've never shot, and I've only got 100 yards to work with. I know from lots of research online and from friends who use the same combo pretty much where I want to be for charge weight and velocity range. I'm going to work within a 1 grain window, in 0.2 gr increments, loading 5 shots per. I'll shoot a pair of each over the chrono to see what the velocity ladder does, then shoot 3 shot groups OCW style without the chrono to see how they group and how the point of impact moves around with charge weight. Look at all the data, probably paying the most attention to group POI and size. Then pick a charge weight and do final seating depth test if needed.

 

[steve123]

Would just doing a chronograph test at 100 give you close to the same data as a 500 yard ladder test? Meaning the load with the best sd and es would be the same as shots coming together at the ladder test?

Nope, that's the whole debate here in this thread. Sure if you have low ES and tight vertical at distance, you have it all. But you can have tight vertical and mediocre ES at the same time, as well as low ES but mediocre vertical spread at distance, so what does a guy choose?? The guy without a chrono chooses the tight vertical. The guy with the chrono isn't sure.

Another debate is whether the best groups at 100Y always give the least vertical at distance. I've had loads shoot good at 100Y but great at distance, and the opposite, as well as great at both, was it the bullet or barrel??? Too a point I'm not overly concerned how tight my 100Y groups are, what turns me on is one splat on steel for 4-5 shots way out there, which a good load in a good rifle will do.

For instance a few months back I used the same bullet Spife uses, 105RDF in my 6mmBR. At 100Y they shot sub 1/2" and decent at 300Y with half the groups at 1", both with the occasional flyer, but by 981Y and 1122Y they shot horrible with huge vertical -3 to 4 feet.

Next I went to the old proven go-to, the Berger hybrid 105, I shot 4.5" vertical at 1025Y for 12 shots.

Another edit, lol, sorry but I thought of something else. My 6mmFatRat hates the Berger hybrids, the bullet all my other 6mm's love. I tried the 95smk and it was miraculous the difference.

 

[Sheldon N]

For instance a few month back I used the same bullet Spife uses, 105RDF in my 6mmBR. At 100Y they shot sub 1/2" and decent at 300Y with half the groups at 1", both with the occasional flyer, but by 981Y and 1122Y they shot horrible with huge vertical -3 to 4 feet.

Next I went to the old proven go-to, the Berger hybrid 105, I shot 4.5" vertical at 1025Y for 12 shots.

Hehehe, finally someone has mentioned the #1 problem with the load development thread here.... wrong bullet.

 

[steve123]

WE still like our Spife though - good guy!

 

[Sheldon N]

WE still like our Spife though - good guy!

True true!

The real secret to load development.... a 6mm BR variant + 105 hybrids. Can't screw it up no matter what load you pick.

 

[PAYDIRT]

My definition is similar in regards to the charge weight. The high nodes are always finicky for charge weight and temp in my experience. The next one down I have found easier to tune.

As far as change due to temp, I don't care about changes so much in vertical of the group center as long as the shape of the group doesn't string out vertically or horizontally. I can account for velocity change as long as all my shots stay clustered.

As far as testing it. I group it at 500 yds in the winter and 500 yards in the summer. If it groups at both extremes, I hang my hat on it.

BINGO. Very well put.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Hehehe, finally someone has mentioned the #1 problem with the load development thread here.... wrong bullet.

We just figured you were a cheap bastard. Skimping on your bullets to buy the shot marker.

 

[47guy]

True true!

The real secret to load development.... a 6mm BR variant + 105 hybrids. Can't screw it up no matter what load you pick.

ive only had good luck with the 105 hybrids in one 6CM barrel...i know everyone loves them and i see them shoot lights out but i gave up on them a few yrs ago....i shoot the 105 and 108g berger BT target bullets...very friendly and shoot lights out.

 

[Sheldon N]

ive only had good luck with the 105 hybrids in one 6CM barrel...i know everyone loves them and i see them shoot lights out but i gave up on them a few yrs ago....i shoot the 105 and 108g berger BT target bullets...very friendly and shoot lights out.

That might be an issue with the 6 Creed, they hammer in the smaller cases. Agree with you on the 108's, I hear nothing but good things about those. Too bad the BC isn't as high on them.

 

[RadKad]

The boat tails are better than the VLD's in 6 creed?

 

[RadKad]

This is where I would get confused, I see three nodes. 39.1 has a low es but 40.0 has less vertical. Run another test on both sides of each charge and pick the best one that groups on paper? Then play with seating depth?

 

[47guy]

That might be an issue with the 6 Creed, they hammer in the smaller cases. Agree with you on the 108's, I hear nothing but good things about those. Too bad the BC isn't as high on them.

i dont worry so much about the BCs anymore but more about how the bullet preforms and how consistent they shoot...i just got my BR going and am shooting the 105g BT targets .025 off the lands...in load development i shot from 29.1 to 30.9 in .2g increments and not one 3 shot group outta 10 are over 3/4"....i also shoot a BRX with 108s and the last barrel would shoot 3 shot groups at 650 you could cover with a quarter.

know the hybrids shoot because i see it at matches all the time they just never seem to work well for me.

 

[47guy]

The boat tails are better than the VLD's in 6 creed?

i dont like the VLDs because they are seating depth finicky....the hybrids and the BT target bullets will run just about anywhere you put them.

 

[spife7980]

This is where I would get confused, I see three nodes. 39.1 has a low es but 40.0 has less vertical. Run another test on both sides of each charge and pick the best one that groups on paper? Then play with seating depth?

Thats the big question, which to choose. but yeah, if I were doing this for myself I would probably run an ocw that goes from 39-40 in .2 increments, find what looks like the best half grain area and then test +/- .2 from either side in .1 increments. Then seating depth after that. Its also how I developed my primary load for this rifle (and all of them really) Its lots of rounds but more data can only offer more informed conclusions.

Some people only think the first 20 shots is necessary. I like to do more than that even if its "wasteful"

The boat tails are better than the VLD's in 6 creed?

Are the VLD bullets not a boat tail design? (they are. just pulling your leg)

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC2.1%20-%20OGIVECOMPARISON.pdf

I can guess what you mean though since berger calls one product line the boat tail though.

The BT has a tangent ogive design, the transition from the curvier ogive of the bullet to the bearing surface is smooth and even allowing it to slide into the lands painlessly.
The VLD has a secant ogive design, it has a longer flatter nose for better aerodynamics but then where it hits the bearing surface it has a more defined transition. This makes it more seating depth sensitive as you need typically need to time it a bit more carefully.

In this image they continued the lines of the bullet ogive, as you can see the lower one is tangential and it flows in smoothly. The higher one is secant and if you were to continue the curve from the ogive on around it would be wider. The bearing surface cuts it off making an abrupt transition. The area shaded in red is where that curve is cut out and removed from the secant bullet.
Tangental only has the curve encounter the bearing surface at one point (tangent) where as the secant has a curve that would geometrically encounter the bearing surface in two points (secant).

 

[Lynn Jr]

Someone asked about primers earlier in this thread
Primers are your third best tuning tool after powder charge and seating depth.
If your extreme spreads which look like an hour glass are high at the narrowest point you swap out primers until you get single digits.
Ladder test first to find your powder window.
Seating depth next.
Extreme spread testing with primers
Lastly you box the powder charge weight so your at or above the halfway point of the node.
I will be testing a 375/50BMG barrel very soon and the life expectancy of the barrel is only 400 rounds. Barrels cost $700 and installation runs around $700 so you don't waste alot of time doing multiple tests.
You stick to what gets you best accuracy as fast as possible.

 

[spife7980]

Document it and show us what you’re seeing and your rational for choosing where you ever it is the load takes you, I’m interested, especially in your results with such a short timeline.



Bullets are seated from .005 off to .030 off in .005 increments at 39.2 grains, 5 shot groups except for the shortest which is 4.

Shoot them at 100 or 500?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

That's the problem with these methods. They just are not repeatable enough. Just pick anyone you like and find the best seating depth. Are you starting to doubt the methodology? I would hope so.

Pick bullet, brass, primer. Pick a decent MV. Load different depths for accuracy. Are you guys using a scope that works?

 

[Subwrx300]

Document it and show us what you’re seeing and your rational for choosing where you ever it is the load takes you, I’m interested, especially in your results with such a short timeline.



Bullets are seated from .005 off to .030 off in .005 increments at 39.2 grains, 5 shot groups except for the shortest which is 4.

Shoot them at 100 or 500?

If conditions are good (consistent, calm wind not head wind switching) and you feel like your shooting well, I'd say 400-500. If both of those aren't true the same day, I'd stick to 100 or wait for a better day. Or one similar to when you shot your first test round.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Since you have already picked your powder charge go with 100 yards.
And the results are very repeatable.
The only reason to go past 100 yards is for ease of viewing. At 100 yards with a 6BR or 6Dasher you will get 3/4 of an inch of vertical from 28-31.5 grains of powder which covers all the usable nodes.
By stretching the distance out to 300 yards you get easier to see with the naked eye results.

 

[spife7980]

Well I did a seating depth test at 100 yards, 2.115, 2.120, 2.125, 2.130, 2.135. Results arent spectacular but its what the doctor ordered.

Because I only have 24 to test the 5th shot is absent from 2.115 and I forgot to turn it on at the start. So Im missing two velocities for that test and I guess I got too far over to the side on the missing 2.130.

(1/2" orange dots)

What next, an OCW at 100? From 39-40 in .2 increments and 4 shot groups? 39.5-40.5 test for sheldon?

 

[nexusfire]

Well I did a seating depth test at 100 yards, 2.115, 2.120, 2.125, 2.130, 2.135. Results arent spectacular but its what the doctor ordered.

Because I only have 24 to test the 5th shot is absent from 2.115 and I forgot to turn it on at the start. So Im missing two velocities for that test and I guess I got too far over to the side on the missing 2.130.
View attachment 7044001
View attachment 7044003
(1/2" orange dots)

What next, an OCW at 100? From 39-40 in .2 increments and 4 shot groups? 39.5-40.5 test for sheldon?

Please humour me and do a test with 38.8

 

[spife7980]

Please humour me and do a test with 38.8

38.8 seating test?

 

[nexusfire]

Yes sir

 

[Sheldon N]

39.5-40.5 test for sheldon?

No need... I don't want to have you keep chasing your tail with the RDF's.

I tried them several times across three different barrels. First quality lots, blem lots. Finally got tired of pulling my hair out and sold like 2500 of them for cheap.

The final straw was when I got a node all picked out then went to do seating depth testing and couldn't get them any better than 0.7MOA, on a barrel that would shoot multiple different lots of 105 Hybrids in the 0.2's. Life's too short.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Well I did a seating depth test at 100 yards, 2.115, 2.120, 2.125, 2.130, 2.135. Results arent spectacular but its what the doctor ordered.

Because I only have 24 to test the 5th shot is absent from 2.115 and I forgot to turn it on at the start. So Im missing two velocities for that test and I guess I got too far over to the side on the missing 2.130.
View attachment 7044001
View attachment 7044003
(1/2" orange dots)

What next, an OCW at 100? From 39-40 in .2 increments and 4 shot groups? 39.5-40.5 test for sheldon?

Look at how the groups basically start out round on the left and string out vertically as you go from 2.115 to 2.135. This is exactly what I was talking about above. If I was doing this, I would now go with 2.115 and tweak a couple of tenths fore and aft in the powder charge to make sure I'm in the middle of this node.

I would consider the winner to be the best load within the small velocity window I was looking for. If it didn't perform to expectations, I wouldn't keep dicking with it. I would go with another combo. That way I don't end up burning barrels and chasing fairies.

 

[steve123]

Finally figured out how to post pics - again - I used to use photo hosting sites which quit working for some reason.

Spife, I'm being a bit presumptuous but I would like to show you and others my last ladder test with my 6mmBR at 400Y that I did a few months ago.

This is in """.1 grain increments""" it's the high node with Varget and the 105 hybrids. Starting at 30 grains, I chose #5/30.4gr, although it's 1" right, because it splits the difference - all .2" of 4, 5 and 6.

A few of the 100Y group pics were shot this morning and some the past weeks, not the greatest but not bad either. Off bipod and rear bag and I used 20x. Hey man, give me a 50x scope, a proper benchrest, edgewood rear heavy BR bag, and I think I could show improvement!
I thought I'd be smart and aim a bullet widths left into the 2-3 mph gust this morning which cost me in the largest orange sticker, darn.

I didn't use a chrono during the ladder test but did the next couple times out, going from 2895 to 2915 fps - a little difference in speed because of temp changes. SD on the first outing was 3 for 5 shots IIRC.

 

[Lynn Jr]

How are you measuring seating depth?
Overall length or with a comparator?

Everyone here seems hellbent on doing multiple tests at the same time and using up valuable barrel life.

My 6mm-06 hunting rifle shoots groups half that size and the barrel is a 6 Dasher throwaway I had laying around after I had shot it out.

There was a different ladder test thread where everyone insisted on not doing it right as well.

If someone here has a fresh barrel and would like to do this extremely easy and simple test correctly without any interference from others I will supply free of charge 50 of the world's finest 6mm bullets that have been sorted properly and spun on my Juenke Machine.
You do the testing how I say to do it and you post the results here for everyone to see.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Steve123
What freebore does your reamer have?
0.104 sound about right?

 

[steve123]

Steve123
What freebore does your reamer have?
0.104 sound about right?

Yes it is.

 

[steve123]

How are you measuring seating depth?
Overall length or with a comparator?

Everyone here seems hellbent on doing multiple tests at the same time and using up valuable barrel life.

My 6mm-06 hunting rifle shoots groups half that size and the barrel is a 6 Dasher throwaway I had laying around after I had shot it out.

There was a different ladder test thread where everyone insisted on not doing it right as well.

If someone here has a fresh barrel and would like to do this extremely easy and simple test correctly without any interference from others I will supply free of charge 50 of the world's finest 6mm bullets that have been sorted properly and spun on my Juenke Machine.
You do the testing how I say to do it and you post the results here for everyone to see.

Me or Spife?

My cheap comparitor is a Sinclair donut.

I take the firing pin assembly out of the bolt and ease the bullet into the case till the bolt drops freely.

My problem is I can't shoot any better than shown above, old guy, old eyes, and mirage, on the ground, Harris bypod mostly.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Spife
But since your here if your sure you have the 0.104 freebore there is a node at 31.5 grains as well that produces 2970 FPS and gives world class accuracy. You have to use CCI 450 Magnum primers because at 31.7 they will pop even with a 0.062 firing pin and a good spring.
Extreme Spread should be around 4-5 FPS for a 5 shot string.
RE15 works extremely good as well.

 

[Subwrx300]

Spife
But since your here if your sure you have the 0.104 freebore there is a node at 31.5 grains as well that produces 2970 FPS and gives world class accuracy. You have to use CCI 450 Magnum primers because at 31.7 they will pop even with a 0.062 firing pin and a good spring.
Extreme Spread should be around 4-5 FPS for a 5 shot string.
RE15 works extremely good as well.

Several people have commented about using 30.x gr of powder but that's for a 6BR correct?

@spife7980 is shooting a 6XC... Not the smaller 6 Dasher or 6BR.

Just making sure you are aware that he is running a different cartidge than you are talking about. His nodes are not in the same charge range.

 

[Bradu]

How are you measuring seating depth?
Overall length or with a comparator?

Everyone here seems hellbent on doing multiple tests at the same time and using up valuable barrel life.

My 6mm-06 hunting rifle shoots groups half that size and the barrel is a 6 Dasher throwaway I had laying around after I had shot it out.

There was a different ladder test thread where everyone insisted on not doing it right as well.

If someone here has a fresh barrel and would like to do this extremely easy and simple test correctly without any interference from others I will supply free of charge 50 of the world's finest 6mm bullets that have been sorted properly and spun on my Juenke Machine.
You do the testing how I say to do it and you post the results here for everyone to see.

Mind posting how you want it done? I have no interest in shooting bullets that I won't ever shoot again even though I have a fresh 6 creedmoor barrel with about 75 rounds though it. I will be more than happy to try it exactly how you say just to see the results.

 

[Lynn Jr]

My post about the 6BR was directed at Steve123.
I campaigned a 6BR for about 5 years then switched to the 6Dasher for another 5 years.