Left eye NOX w/ PVS on right?

[jerako92]

Guys,
My apologies if this has been asked before, but i've spent the last few days looking for the information on my own and calling a few vendors for more information before bugging you guys. I just recently purchased a Nox 18. I want to buy a dual bridge to mount it on and am planning on running it on my left like some others. I don't quite understand what the issue is, but at first it seemed like the only bridge that would mount them successfully was the KVC bridge. Since that is on perma back order, what are the other options? Will the Wilcox Dual bridge work? Will the IC Dual PVS 14 bridge work? I don't want to shell out another grand on the Wilcox if the thing won't do what I want it to.
Can't I just buy the Wilcox Dual, flip the dovetail on the Nox 18 to the bottom, mount it on the left and have enough room for the PVS 14 on the right?

Any advice would really be appreciated.

James

 

[GreenMushroom]

My understanding is the Willcox bridge won't work with the wilcox mini arms because they set the 14 back too far. I have ic bridges and they work but can have some cant to the thermal box. I'd never noticed it until I saw it mentioned online but apparently it bothers some people. This is how mine sits so imagine the you're staring at the square image through your nox and it's a little slanted.

 

[jerako92]

I finally get what I've been reading about the issue. A picture truly is worth a thousand words. I was assuming the thermal and the pvs weren't inline. It's more of they are in line, but the thermal is rotated on its axis slightly. Much like looking at a TV hanging down on one side slightly.

Can't you just use the dovetails on the wilcox?

In any case, thank you so much for the picture and explanation.

 

[GreenMushroom]

That only applies for the ic bridge. With the wilcox at least using their arms the pvs14 eyepiece will be closer to your face than the nox. Some guys have used the ic arms on wilcox bridges but apparently Mod Armory doesn't sell the arms separately anymore. The knights should be the best of both worlds but is unoptanium. It you don't care about quick disconnect check out the noisefighters pano bridge. They make a nox adapter now but I don't have any personal experience with it. I have their jarm and it's good to go.

This is eyepiece alignment on an ic bridge. Picture the wilcox with wilcox arms as the pvs14 eyepiece being an inch or whatever closer to your face than the nox.

 

[shoobe01]

Yes:

Not super visible, but I also have them /ever/ so slightly canted outboard. It's fine. It's an adjustable mount and this is adjustment, it's not bad.

All these are with the CADEX mount. Since then got an AKA2. The "14" is something else in a VYPER housing but same geometry so good enough example for the OP.

Wilcox dual bridge. Note that the dovetail for the NOX is backwards. That gets the eyeball distance similar. This... seems to be the best photo I have of that, though:

Worst thing about it is that the controls for the NOX are inboard so it's a bit of a thing to take photos or NUC the unit. I mean, battery is opposite so it would be a MAJOR redesign to allow that to not happen, but it is worth mentioning.

Note when playing with it that you can't get the two images to line up when very close. Even purpose built duals have a first coincidental range of, IIRC, 47 ft. Go wander around outside, AND give yourself a few minutes to get used to it. Also helps to have them not jammed right into your eye sockets; I run them far enough forward that if I did use the eyecups they wouldn't be touching my face (but I also wear glasses or eyepro always).

I wore a much larger and heavier thermal before this, have used lots of other night vision. It's a pretty solid multi-spectral solution. I can wear this for hours and hours at a time with no problems at all, and others rely on me as the "sensor operator" to scan for stuff and alert them to where it is so they can move or bring the guns to bear.

 

[jerako92]

I've been going over your post for the last 30 minutes and to me, it seems like any of them will work, but they all have some inherent quirk to get used to. IC the image on thermal is not perfected as far as rotation. Wilcox you have to move the PVS closer to your eye by an inch or so (guessing the bridge is capable of doing that natively). Noisefighter Pano just doesn't appear to be used as often in the field.

I'm guessing the image alignment is a constant thing across all mounts. Is that accurate or specific to the Wilcox bridge?

I don't think the controls inboard will be a nuisance. I don't have huge bear paws. I'm leaning towards the Wilcox at this point unless someone says that's a dumb way to go. I'm not above taking a lesson from someone with experience.

Of course, NVision has the IC mount on their site, so it seems to me as if they suggest that product to be used with theirs. I actually e-mailed them as well and they didn't mention anything about the Wilcox.

Suppose it's crap or get off the can time.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

 

[shoobe01]

Most dual mounts including those sold on the NVision site are for dual identical setups. Two 14s, two MUMs, two Breaches, two NOXs. See these sold for that a lot, demoed, no idea why you'd do two thermals though

There are other adaptable/adjustable/modular bridges, never used them. The Wilcox one has a center module that attaches to the mount (dovetail or horn), and wings (my term) that attach to whatever the individual unit, adapter, or J-arm is. The wings have a thumb screw to adjust the interpupillary distance (left/right) and several TINY grub screws to lock this slider down as it has some wobble. NOTE: turn these screws slowly at first. I had one lock up, break off a bit, had to send it back to Wilcox who fixed it for free under warranty but the repair notes still blamed me.

Anyway, the wings are simply screwed into little tapered slots, and the screw is centered in this, so you can attach them "forwards" or "backwards." There's an official forward in the examples they always show, no mention you can do the other way (in fact, I can't find a manual at all, found out about the set screws above, myself by accident).

Found another shot of my rig, that should show the "backwards" wing thing better:

It's a pretty coarse fore/aft adjustment, but for both my therm devices/setups, it sure worked nearly perfectly by some stroke of luck.

More notes:
The Wilcox bridge wing screws have no particular retention. Do not lock, so will loosen. At least before/after each use, check those little screws for the wing attachment. You will usually have to tighten them at least 1/4 turn. I would NOT loctite as there's little to grab so if you had to force them open or get a wrench on: you can't. Just check.

Dovetails are not the end all be all. I had more luck modifying horn mounts to dewobble, but these are the new hotness and lower profile. If any wobble in that interface, add a strip or two of electrical tape to the nose of the male dovetail side. Shove it in and if it takes a tiny bit of force to push till lock, that's the right amount. Will generally solve all problems as it pushes down into the dovetail interface and so tight in fore/aft solves all tighteness issues. I have heard of adjustment screws here also, never seen one, but if you get other than Wilcox, look for a screw or read the manual about that.


Shrouds:
ALSO note, and this took me a while to figure out, that the bridge adds vertical height. I finally figured out that shrouds have been moving slowly UP on the helmet over time. Dunno why no one explicitly talks about this, there's no apparent name for it, spec for distance above brim or eye, etc. but if you have a monocular setup, when you pop on an otherwise perfectly configured bridge the optical eyeboxes will be below your line of sight.

Many mounts now have a vertical adjustment, and that's nice and I think worth looking into having (both my CADEX and the Norotos AKA2 have it) just all the other mount adjustment to tweak it, but was not enough to get a low shroud like say the Crye Nightcap to work, at all. I had to bolt on a Norotos shroud higher on my helmet instead. It works, totally happy, but it is permanently higher. I cannot, for example, use a monocular on a normal J-arm with my helmet now either.

 

[shoobe01]

Slightly tangential: the other thing I found helped with the NOX as a dual setup was getting the dimness down. My previous unit had on the fly and very broad range adjustable brightness. I'd either set it to custom color (mostly green) or hot detection and very dim, and it blended with the NOD just fine.

The NOX out of box with brightness turned down a bit works great in outline mode but that's not always a useful mode. In woods, it's nothing but lines. And all other modes are too bright and too... blue? Just somehow, it's a weird color, effs with my brain-collimator.

So, eventually I got myself a purple filter just like for my PVS-14ish. There was some machine work because I can't find a proper one (the only current maker I could find thinks you REPLACE the eyecup, but I want both to not bash myself in the head, want the rubber) so epoxied on the eyecup ring.

Anyway, YMMV and I have terrible eyes but that mod helped me a lot.

I also am a huge believer, having been in lots of bad weather with NODs and cameras, in demist shields and sacrificial lenses. Before doing this, I'd totally fog the NOX when the 14 was fine. After this I did, among other things, a 50 minute running around (FOF, blanks and stuff) fight in a pre-dawn rainstorm and used the NOX the whole time to (notionally) murder plenty of BLUFOR. Not one issue with fogging even in those conditions.

I wish NOX would sell a sac lens front and a purple filter for the back, so if anyone knows them, tell them to do that and I'll buy one of each. Remind them accessories usually get about 100% markup for profit also

 

[jerako92]

Yeah. I noticed in our back yard the woods is so dense you can't pick out a thing. White hot and black hot work ok, but sighting distance is still pretty low. Had three deer in my backyard around 100 yards...maybe. With edge detect I couldn't tell one line from the other.

I went ahead and ordered the wilcox bridge. After I saw that I could swap out a dovetail to a j arm, I figured I would make the damn thing work one way or another.

As for misting up, I already had that experience and I've had it outside for an hour or so. I'll have to attempt something similar to what you worked up.

Right now I just want to get it mounted and functional by itself and get some time behind it.

Mind if I ask what type of battery you use? The Ankers start looking like a brick. Surprised there isn't something a bit more molded to a helmet. I suppose that's a battery technology problem though.

 

[shoobe01]

Yup, I for one am not there yet. My crazy idea that seems okay in the back yard or dog walks but hasn't yet worked out in the field is to mount a biggish battery to the LBE, then run cables to the helmet. Already have comm leads, why not run another wire? Then, you need to keep a 123 onboard because (I guess) startup power demands are too high, and it gives a buffer if cables come unplugged, etc. I still have some cable run issues, etc.

That, when it works, is noticably better than the 18650. I get all-night runtime off those, but they stick out the front and that's noticably heavier than a 123 in there instead (the NOX itself is also longer than a 14). So, working on it but nothing I'd suggest anyone copy me on yet!

I know others have run Ankers mostly, in the ANVIS battery pouches on the back, but I sorta hate counterweights so trying to avoid that. Also have earpro so no real spare room/clearance on my side rails for one of those batteries.

 

[stefan73]

Slightly tangential: the other thing I found helped with the NOX as a dual setup was getting the dimness down. My previous unit had on the fly and very broad range adjustable brightness. I'd either set it to custom color (mostly green) or hot detection and very dim, and it blended with the NOD just fine.

The NOX out of box with brightness turned down a bit works great in outline mode but that's not always a useful mode. In woods, it's nothing but lines. And all other modes are too bright and too... blue? Just somehow, it's a weird color, effs with my brain-collimator.

So, eventually I got myself a purple filter just like for my PVS-14ish. There was some machine work because I can't find a proper one (the only current maker I could find thinks you REPLACE the eyecup, but I want both to not bash myself in the head, want the rubber) so epoxied on the eyecup ring.

Anyway, YMMV and I have terrible eyes but that mod helped me a lot.

I also am a huge believer, having been in lots of bad weather with NODs and cameras, in demist shields and sacrificial lenses. Before doing this, I'd totally fog the NOX when the 14 was fine. After this I did, among other things, a 50 minute running around (FOF, blanks and stuff) fight in a pre-dawn rainstorm and used the NOX the whole time to (notionally) murder plenty of BLUFOR. Not one issue with fogging even in those conditions.

I wish NOX would sell a sac lens front and a purple filter for the back, so if anyone knows them, tell them to do that and I'll buy one of each. Remind them accessories usually get about 100% markup for profit also

Where are you playing OPFOR at? JRTC?

 

[shoobe01]

Where are you playing OPFOR at? JRTC?

Naw, nowhere that fun, never confuse me for someone without bad knees and childhood asthma

Private/paid training groups. Mostly S&S and (the rainstorm event specifically) 1 Shepherd.

 

[stefan73]

Naw, nowhere that fun, never confuse me for someone without bad knees and childhood asthma

Private/paid training groups. Mostly S&S and (the rainstorm event specifically) 1 Shepherd.

So you actually make money

 

[shoobe01]

So you actually make money

Even when it goes well and we get all paid, not near enough for this sort of gear. Stop reminding me!

 

[Cypress87]

Any thoughts on this? Been using a nox18 for scanning/navigation but getting tired of holding it up...saw this on n-visions sight...figure they would make it work the way it should work but I know very little about helmet mounts

NOX Dual Mount

nvisionoptics.com

Worth $575? Anyone used one?

 

[GreenMushroom]

It works fine but if you're just mounting a single nox the IC thermal Jarm will be around half the price.

Thermal J Arm Adapter for Nox

nvisionoptics.com

This is with a pvs14 but it's the same with a nox. It's double jointed and you can swing from one eye to the other without removing your device from the mount.

 

[shoobe01]

Oh yes, this thread. I have since the above showing off customized a weird wrap-around J-arm to allow me to roatate the NOD to battery down, which gives a bit of space between the two units and room to get the interpupillary more dialed in, so it works even better now, much happier.

The NOX controls stay inboard but I can (after adjustment, the above is before I dialed in the distance, and they are closer now) reach most of them now without moving either pod Power/NUC is easy, front and bottom of the 4-way to get mode and capture are also reachable with anything but winter gloves.

BUT: its a big bracket for the NOD. Anyone know of a case that has the thread on any other side so it works better mounted to the right side, or... what? What does everyone else do for things like this?

Also now it's so well aligned I really, really wish I could turn off the "NOX18" label lower-right as that's pretty bright in the FOV, esp when on outline mode where most of the TIC screen is black.

 

[Cypress87]

It works fine but if you're just mounting a single nox the IC thermal Jarm will be around half the price.

Thermal J Arm Adapter for Nox

nvisionoptics.com

This is with a pvs14 but it's the same with a nox. It's double jointed and you can swing from one eye to the other without removing your device from the mount.

View attachment 7968166

Ah, thanks, I would like to have the ability to mount a pvs-14 in the future. Didn’t know if the nox and n-visions pvs-14 was just the bomb.com with their own mount. Everything I have read is that dual banding can work but nothing has ever been ideal, the images don’t line up due to fov or canted, or you gonna flip one upside down etc. etc. Was wondering if n-visions own mount was better in someway. I am cross eye dominate so using the nox on my right and a pvs14 on my left (for distance) would work in theory. I can use the nox on either eye tho.

 

[Cypress87]

Oh yes, this thread. I have since the above showing off customized a weird wrap-around J-arm to allow me to roatate the NOD to battery down, which gives a bit of space between the two units and room to get the interpupillary more dialed in, so it works even better now, much happier.
View attachment 7968347

The NOX controls stay inboard but I can (after adjustment, the above is before I dialed in the distance, and they are closer now) reach most of them now without moving either pod Power/NUC is easy, front and bottom of the 4-way to get mode and capture are also reachable with anything but winter gloves.

BUT: its a big bracket for the NOD. Anyone know of a case that has the thread on any other side so it works better mounted to the right side, or... what? What does everyone else do for things like this?

Also now it's so well aligned I really, really wish I could turn off the "NOX18" label lower-right as that's pretty bright in the FOV, esp when on outline mode where most of the TIC screen is black.

This looks good, thanks for posting such detailed replies. My issue tho is I have never used NV and have no experience with mounts or helmets so parsing out all this detail is hard for a noob. Seems like most thermal mounts and dual band attempts have to be macgyvered like crazy. I’m looking for more of a simple solution.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Ah, thanks, I would like to have the ability to mount a pvs-14 in the future. Didn’t know if the nox and n-visions pvs-14 was just the bomb.com with their own mount. Everything I have read is that dual banding can work but nothing has ever been ideal, the images don’t line up due to fov or canted, or you gonna flip one upside down etc. etc. Was wondering if n-visions own mount was better in someway. I am cross eye dominate so using the nox on my right and a pvs14 on my left (for distance) would work in theory. I can use the nox on either eye tho.

It's not an Nvision bridge it's made by integrated components. You can buy it at other retailers. I figure that's the one they sell since it works the best without modification. They are selling it as a dual nox bridge so I'd confirm it comes with pvs14 arms before purchasing. The nox snaps right in but for a 14 you will need the arm.

I've had numerous people try mine and no one was bothered by the slightly canted screen but it bugs some people and you might be one of them. As far as dual band overall I've had one person who couldn't do it (bad vision and glasses) and one person who took to it immediately and loved it (color blind). For everyone else including myself it's a learning experience and takes effort to make it work.

 

[shoobe01]

...I've had numerous people try mine and no one was bothered by the slightly canted screen but it bugs some people and you might be one of them...

Talked about this exactly with another member today, trying among other conversation points to find a non-hacky solution to two-device-multispectral bridging. His thoughts were:

• The NOX is a bit wide. Not all thermals bump into a right-side PVS-14. Things like the IC mount are made for two -14s and they work there. Or a PTQ136 or... so on. So, not everyone in this category has our issues.
• Some people don't care or muddle through. He specifically solves his two-devices-bumping issues by turning off his "it bothers me" switch He can notice the non-straight TIC screen, but then decides to look through it at targets and not pay attention. Not everyone can.

I can if I must, have a lot of hours with my previous slight-angles system. But spend some time the last few weeks with an NV binocular system and got used to how nice it aligns, so then it bugged me afresh and I like messing with solutions. Professionally and personally. I sewed my own wallet, for example.

The upshot of that convo was actually: if no one else comes into this thread with a clever answer, the perfect bridge, etc. in a few weeks, I'll take more photos of my setup for geometry reasons and maybe we can get a 3D printed mount to rotate the -14 battery-down, giving everyone a storebought solution to this issue with pretty much any dovetail bridge.

Nag me sometime about it, all you want. I have 2-3 places that produce 3D printed things for gunny stuff so worst case would be group buy, you all raise your hands to say "l'll buy one" and then I can get it higher on the production list so it's in 6 months vs unknown number of years.

 

[Cypress87]

It works fine but if you're just mounting a single nox the IC thermal Jarm will be around half the price.

Thermal J Arm Adapter for Nox

nvisionoptics.com

This is with a pvs14 but it's the same with a nox. It's double jointed and you can swing from one eye to the other without removing your device from the mount.

View attachment 7968166

Sorry for such a noob question but with this J arm, to mount just the nox18, would the only other thing I need be a helmet/skull crusher? Or do I need something else too? Thanks.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Sorry for such a noob question but with this J arm, to mount just the nox18, would the only other thing I need be a helmet/skull crusher? Or do I need something else too? Thanks.

Second post of this thread. You need the helmet mount and it will explain how to swap a Rhino2 to dovetail. You'll be using the d14 or the thermal jarm instead of the standard jarm and light weight bridge since you need a socket for the nox dovetail.

Night Vision - Yet another mount question

I am new to nv and have a TNPVS14 that I just got a week or so ago. In anticipation I ordered a TW xfil and scored a deal on a G11 Mount on Black Friday. I finally got it set up and the mount/j arm don’t seem to work for me. 1 the mount won’t adjust far enough out to lower the 14 without...

www.snipershide.com

This explains the different parts. It's for pvs14s but the helmet mount is the same.

Helmet mount basics - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

 

[GreenMushroom]

Talked about this exactly with another member today, trying among other conversation points to find a non-hacky solution to two-device-multispectral bridging. His thoughts were:

• The NOX is a bit wide. Not all thermals bump into a right-side PVS-14. Things like the IC mount are made for two -14s and they work there. Or a PTQ136 or... so on. So, not everyone in this category has our issues.
• Some people don't care or muddle through. He specifically solves his two-devices-bumping issues by turning off his "it bothers me" switch He can notice the non-straight TIC screen, but then decides to look through it at targets and not pay attention. Not everyone can.

I can if I must, have a lot of hours with my previous slight-angles system. But spend some time the last few weeks with an NV binocular system and got used to how nice it aligns, so then it bugged me afresh and I like messing with solutions. Professionally and personally. I sewed my own wallet, for example.

The upshot of that convo was actually: if no one else comes into this thread with a clever answer, the perfect bridge, etc. in a few weeks, I'll take more photos of my setup for geometry reasons and maybe we can get a 3D printed mount to rotate the -14 battery-down, giving everyone a storebought solution to this issue with pretty much any dovetail bridge.

Nag me sometime about it, all you want. I have 2-3 places that produce 3D printed things for gunny stuff so worst case would be group buy, you all raise your hands to say "l'll buy one" and then I can get it higher on the production list so it's in 6 months vs unknown number of years.

For me the perfect bridge would be a d14 with a bit wider IPD. I run a lot of different setups so I need the sockets. For someone running dedicated dual band I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to do a 3d printed bridge. Whatever happened to the Noisefighters nox adapter? Did that not turn out?

 

[shoobe01]

...Whatever happened to the Noisefighters nox adapter? Did that not turn out?

Says it exists.

Adapter for Mounting NOX18 Thermal to Panobridge

Adapter for Mounting NOX18 Thermal to Panobridge | Night Vision, Tactical Gear, and Accessories at Apollo Gear Co.

apollogearco.com

It is their internal dovetail, to the Panobridge ONLY though.

Odd they mount it right side up, with battery to the right. Interesting they get it to fit that way, even with the wrap-around for the NOD side, moving the battery to 4-5 o'clock. Hmm... may have to look into the fit there. If I have the room now with NOD rotation, might be interesting to get the controls outboard again.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Says it exists.

Adapter for Mounting NOX18 Thermal to Panobridge

Adapter for Mounting NOX18 Thermal to Panobridge | Night Vision, Tactical Gear, and Accessories at Apollo Gear Co.

apollogearco.com

It is their internal dovetail, to the Panobridge ONLY though.

Odd they mount it right side up, with battery to the right. Interesting they get it to fit that way, even with the wrap-around for the NOD side, moving the battery to 4-5 o'clock. Hmm... may have to look into the fit there. If I have the room now with NOD rotation, might be interesting to get the controls outboard again.

The battery compartment on the nox is fat enough that I'm not sure it can be run to the inside no matter how you dice the mounting. I'd never looked at the Noisefighters adapter but it looks like it just replaces the nox dovetail with a mum rail. If the adapter won't fit on the weapon rail then it will be limited to right eye use. If I have all my pieces right the Noisefighters mum rail should work with this d14 arm?

If I have all that right the missing piece is a mum rail for the weapon rail if that one won't fit. I'm assuming that wilcox has they're own mum arm that lines up with their pvs14 arm for breaches or whatever?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

hey boys what butler flip up are you using on the nox18?

 

[GreenMushroom]

They fit snug when new but stretch out over time so I'd recommend getting several and considering them a consumable

 

[shoobe01]

The battery compartment on the nox is fat enough that I'm not sure it can be run to the inside no matter how you dice the mounting...

I didn't bolt it all up but oriented to the NF implied way on my bridge and... it's close. The NOX battery compartment is so far forward it only barely contacts, and someone with larger interpupillary distance would have no issues. The NF mount of course cheats more by allowing the azimuth spread per pod so it would for sure fit if that is your way.

They fit snug when new but stretch out over time so I'd recommend getting several and considering them a consumable

I have several NODs and related devices I put in the field so all of them have caps. No two fit alike. Not sure if it's the Butler Creek or PVS-14 lenses that vary, but they vary enough that many of them have tape around the focus ring to make sure the cap stays tight. 07 works for some but is too small for others, 09 works for all but may fit, or may require tape. Shrug.

The Multiflex is a different material, more rubbery-stretchy. Have one of those that seems to work a bit better. I... forget the sizes, but double check, they may not use the same chart and you need to see the measurement comparison. Of COURSE the caps do not seem to have size molded in as that would be crazy.

If drilling for day or esp for WDOF purposes, get a step drill. For sheet metal, etc. Will cut a very circular hole very cleanly in sheet plastic like this. Do not use a twist drill or eyeball it. These are available at Harbor Freight so the cost won't kill you.