Rifle Scopes Leupold mk4m3

[pre64marksman]

I've been getting conflicting info on the civy mk4m3 10x. I understand that both the old Ultra M3A and later Mk4 M3A had a etched glass reticle but mk4 M3 had a wire reticle.

I than hear that later mk4M3 has etched glass reticle just as the older M3A did. I have a M4M3 that I initially was going to sell to someone a while back but the sale fell through. I possibly would put it up for sale again but I'm not yet sure. I contacted LEupold on it and they got back to me saying that they manufactued my serial numbered scope in early 2008 and it is not a chinese knock-off. They however failed to tell me what reticle it has and they are not answring me recently though I'll try bugging them again.

The reticle in the scope is round mildots rather than football mil dots. I'm not sure if this is a distinquishing charicteristic for glass reticles vs wire reticles, it may just be leupold's style to use round dots in both glass reticles and wire reticles. While other Mk4 scopes are marked with lg white lettering on underside(old ultras are simply ethed with unpainted simple font lettering) my scope just has the serial number and a small disk that says "MARK 4". It doesn't even say M3 anywhere but it is obviously the M3 with several BDC turrets. For 308 it has the 168gr civi bdc rather than m118 bdc but Leupold is happy to make custom bdcs for any loading or even cailber that you want to use with scope.

I guess my question is, though it looks like a solid chunk of wire in my scope, it has round mill dots and it is later manufactur, does it have glass etched reticle or a wire reticle?
Any imput much apreciated!

 

[Sniper52]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

I had a M3A myself about a year ago. Then switched to Schmidt and Bender Mil/Mill scopes. I am still not as comfortable with the Schmidt. M3A are great scopes and I wish I would have never sold mine. The one that I had also had the wire reticle, I have had Leupold's with etched reticles and when you looked through them in sunlight/bright light the reticle would almost glow a gold color. Where as the wire ones would still stay the same dark black. Hope this helps. JAA

 

[pre64marksman]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Thanks Sniper52,

No gold glow on my reticle, and honestly though a glass reticle probably is stronger, that gold glow thing probably would bug the hell out of me.

 

[pre64marksman]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Took the scope out again and looked at a fairly bright light through it. The only gold I noticed was a thin gold edge of sorts but only when looking through off center. When holding correct eye relief and staying centered, the reticle is a little brownish but still dark; no gold glow or edges when looking through it correctly. Again the mil dots are sharp and round. I have looked through my Bushnell elite 3200 tactical-its mildots were round though actually more like blocks rather than round dot shaped. I don't know if this adds any more info. If I sell the thing I will post external photos but I may post them here as well if it helps identify it. Unfortunatley trying to get a good descriptive photo of the reticle is nearly impossible. They have to be seen in person.
If Leupy would get back to me I'm sure they'd be able to answer all I want to know. I'll call them, that may be better than trying to email the tech center.

 

[Driftwood]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

The original USMC "footballs" were put in by Precision Reticle and were wire. If you have round "Army" style MD's then you would have a newer Glass etched reticle. I would call Leupold rather than emailing or writing them. You will have to wait about 5-10 minutes on hold but you will get a technician that will be able to answer all your questions.

 

[pre64marksman]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Decided to test something with another scope(bushnell rimfire). I looked through the scopes while shifting a large maglite over my shoulder. My big head in the way its hard to get the maglite to pour in through the ocular. Anyway, with the bushnell, when the flashlight lit up the surounding rim metal, the inner reticle turned metalic-to-white. I did the same thing looking through my mk4 with light reflected off the glass and the surounding metal finish of the occular but the reticle stayed black. I did this after reading a thread on optics talk. The thread spoke about a hunter with an older scope have his blaze orange hat reflecting off the reticle when the sun was behind him and he was aiming into a valley at a game animal. The thread stated that wire reticles can in rare situations reflect light where as glass etched reticles stay black even when back lit. There was a lot of back and fourth about what is best. I see negatives and positives to both. Still not sure what reticle is in my mk4 scope but I will when I get a hold of a Leupold tech. However my guess is it is an etched reticle. A poster on the optics talk thread stated that currently all leupold tacticals be they variables or fixed mk4s use etched glass so there may not be a difference any longer between an M3 and an M3A unless there's better glass in the M3a. He stated when Leupold first brought the mk4 out for civilian purchase in the mid to late 90s, they may have had wire reticles while military scopes where glass. But he states now there is no difference. Again I'll try to get details from Leupold on this. There may be other differences for military scopes.

I've hunted with wire reticles on my fav old rifles both high power and rimfire. Maybe its my big head blocking any sun behind me but I've never had an issue distinguishing a wire reticle on even small camoflaged grouse hiding in the brush in the morning. I guess if I'm shooting something real heavy kicking, I may feel more secure about a scope with etched reticle. Otherwise I've shot many standard long action calibers with old wire reticles and none have broken. Glass ethced for me is maybe "throwing pearls before swine."

 

[pre64marksman]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Got a hold of the tech service at leupold and probably could've saved the hide a thread. The tech said my scope made in '08 has the etched glass reticle with blackening compound in the etch. When given the serial he knew right away it was produced in 2008 but when I asked about whether it be wire or glass reticle he needed me to give him the serial again, so maybe that means not all mk4 scopes from 2008 had the glass reticle, I probably should have asked when they started puting the glass reticles in other model lines. I guess I suck at investigating, I should get them back on the phone and ask.

Somewhere I read about the Army no longer buying the M3A but recieving mark4M3s for m24s and the m3LR scopes for various DMRs. I'm not sure where and when exactly I found this. I also read somewhere that the Army wanted to switch to wire reticles but I'm not sure about that now if leupold moved more to the glass reticle.

 

[Turk]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Driftwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original USMC "footballs" were put in by Precision Reticle and were wire. If you have round "Army" style MD's then you would have a newer Glass etched reticle. I would call Leupold rather than emailing or writing them. You will have to wait about 5-10 minutes on hold but you will get a technician that will be able to answer all your questions. </div></div>
You may mean Premier Reticle? Footbals are wire; dots are are etched.2008 production definitely etched. Also the M3's and M3A's have built in "cant". I can't remember exactly but I think it was approx 20 moa.

 

[pre64marksman]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You may mean Premier Reticle? Footbals are wire; dots are are etched.2008 production definitely etched. Also the M3's have built in "cant"; the M3A's did not. I can't remember exactly but I think it was approx 20 moa. </div></div>

Cool to hear about the built cant!

 

[jtv3062]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, the wire rectile will not reflect lasers that a glass etched reticle will. And that's why the USArmy is going with wire

 

[Sniper52]

Re: Leupold mk4m3

Jtv3062, that is what I have heard as well, but I can not say for sure.

As for the cant built into the scope, I can say from my experience only use as 0 degree base if you want a 100 yard zero. I tried my M3A on my Templar action with 20 moa base and had to shim the front ring to zero at 100. JAA