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Liberty Optics Still Legit?

I was able to find phone numbers for his parents in the depths of google.

There’s also no record of him ever at the address on the LLC anywhere that I can find but there is record of him at another address on the same street. That address is owned by an LLC that comes back to another house in ID.
 
Scott is legit. In fact he might be……

too-legit-quit.gif
Oooooo, that is not aging well.


G4si.gif





Hope this all works out for everyone.
 
I have to say what makes this hard to believe as someone with no skin in the game is that the last thing as I would do as a scammer, is fuck with people who shoot large calibers weapons as a hobby.
Seriously this.... What an absolutely absurd thing to do.
 
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I have to say what makes this hard to believe as someone with no skin in the game is that the last thing as I would do as a scammer, is fuck with people who shoot large calibers weapons as a hobby.

Despite internet memes and liberal lies to the contrary, you probably won't find a more law abiding group and also a group less prone to violence.
 
Despite internet memes and liberal lies to the contrary, you probably won't find a more law abiding group and also a group less prone to violence.

Sadly, whatever Scott is mixed up in is probably worse than the couple thousand dollars that some of us are out. Schemes like this generally don't end well for the one doing the embezzlement. See Aubrey McClenndan (Chesapeake Energy) as an example.
 
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Oooooo, that is not aging well.


G4si.gif





Hope this all works out for everyone.

3CCDB8D2-1CDF-48E3-ACBC-7ECDAEA9CFC4.jpeg

At first I was all like, “Wow, that @Secant sure was a sons-a-bitches to that guy.”
A few seconds later I realized “that guy” was you.
Hoo-boy.
A wise old uncle once told me to always forgive yourself. So I said, “Self, I forgive you for giving bad advice. I also forgive you for throwing that puppy in the river.”








=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=


Ok, just thought we needed a little lighthearted Deep Thoughts-like action. I made this one up.

I hope everyone is made whole. And maybe we get to throw someone into the (metaphorical) river.


P.S. not trying to make mean fun of @Secant! Deep Thoughts just entered the chat and forced me to write something.
 
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I just got off of a chat with Clay over at Vortex. He was able to confirm my end of June order was paid/in their system. He mentioned that drop ship orders are generally taking about six months to fulfill with some variance in fulfillment time.

I’d assume if you were an end of June order you’re probably good. Maybe someone from July/August can reach out and confirm further dates.
I got an order confirm for a G3 on July 3, and no further comms since.
 
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Has anyone received anything they ordered from June on?

I'm hoping this is a huge misunderstanding but the pessimist in me is starting to think this was planned for a while. Vortex doesn't seem to have been paid on anything for whatever their net terms are, 60, 90, who knows. Then there was the anniversary sale in August? which was supposed to have the biggest discounts ever. I'm sure tons of people ordered during that timeframe. At $2000 per order, that adds up pretty quickly.
I ordered a Razor LHT from him for the anniversary sale on August 24th and shipping time was 4-6 weeks. It showed up last week which was right at 7 weeks.
 
My June 6 order was submitted to Vortex but no payment to them from Scott, who had my money as of that day.
Trying the chargeback.
Had been waiting patiently but now regretting not calling emailing and pestering him to push through and get my order sent.

Reach out to Shamus with Vortex- these guys are trying to make right what Scott made so wrong.

[email protected]
 
I decided to check the forums today since I placed an order with Scott for a razor gen 3 6-36 on June 3rd and still hadn’t received it. Wasn’t expecting to find this thread, I saved up for almost a year to buy that scope… hoping everything gets resolved for everyone.
 
Just doing research in case I need to escalate. Figured I'd share some.

https://casetext.com/case/white-v-longley
The Court does not read this statute as immunizing members or managers of an LLC from personal liability for their conduct. If an LLC has a liability, the member or manager cannot be held liable "solely by reason of being a member or manager, or both," but that language does not offer blanket protection from liability for a member or manager's conduct.
A member or manager is responsible for acts or omissions to the extent those acts or omissions would be actionable in contract or tort against the member or manager if that person were acting in an individual capacity.
"[o]wners of limited liability companies, like corporate shareholders, are generally not liable for the debts of the limited liability company. . . . Exceptions include when owners guarantee debts of a LLC or when owners personally commit wrongs while acting for an LLC. . . . For both of these exceptions, owners will be personally liable for the debts or damages." Mont. Sen. Jud. Comm., Hearing on Sen. Bill 146, Exhibit 3, 53rd Legis., Reg. Sess. 3-4 (January 21, 1993)
Further, other courts examining this issue have reached the same conclusion. See People v. Pac. Landmark, LLC, 129 Cal. App. 4th 1203, 1213, 29 Cal. Rptr. 3d 193, 199 (2d Dist. 2005) ("we hold that whereas managers of limited liability companies may not be held liable for the wrongful conduct of the companies merely because of the managers' status, they may nonetheless be held accountable . . . for their personal participation in tortious or criminal conduct, even when performing their duties as manager" (emphasis in original)).

https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/title_0350/chapter_0080/part_0030/section_0060/0350-0080-0030-0060.html
35-8-306. Limited liability company liability for member's or manager's conduct. A limited liability company is liable for loss or injury caused to a person, or for a penalty incurred, as a result of a wrongful act or omission or other actionable conduct of a member or manager acting in the ordinary course of business of the company or with the authority of the company.
History: En. Sec. 15, Ch. 302, L. 1999.

https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/title_0350/chapter_0080/part_0090/section_0090/0350-0080-0090-0090.html
35-8-909. Unknown claims against dissolved or terminated limited liability companies. (1) Subject to 35-8-908 and subsections (2) through (5) of this section,the dissolution or termination of a limited liability company, including dissolution by the expiration of its term, does not take away or impair any remedy available to or against the limited liability company or its members or managers for any claim or right, whether or not the claim or right existed or accrued prior to dissolution or termination. A proceeding by or against the limited liability company may be prosecuted or defended by the limited liability company in its name. The members and managers have power to take action as appropriate to protect the remedy, right, or claim.

(2) A dissolved or terminated limited liability company may publish notice of its dissolution or termination and request that persons having claims against it present the claims in accordance with the notice.

(3) The notice must:

(a) be published at least once in a newspaper of general circulation in the county in which the dissolved or terminated limited liability company's principal office is located or, if there is none in this state, then in the county in which its designated office is or was last located;

(b) describe the information required to be contained in a claim and provide a mailing address to which the claim is to be sent; and

(c) state that a claim against the limited liability company is barred unless a proceeding to enforce the claim is commenced within 5 years after publication of the notice.

(4) If a dissolved or terminated limited liability company publishes a notice in accordance with subsection (3), the claim of each of the following claimants is barred unless the claimant commences a proceeding to enforce the claim against the dissolved or terminated company within 5 years after the publication date of the notice:

(a) a claimant who did not receive written notice under 35-8-908;

(b) a claimant whose claim was timely sent to the dissolved or terminated company but not acted on; and

(c) a claimant whose claim is contingent on or based on an event occurring after the effective date of dissolution or termination.

(5) A claim not barred under this section may be enforced:

(a) against the dissolved or terminated limited liability company, to the extent of its undistributed assets; or

(b) if the assets have been distributed in liquidation, against a member of the dissolved or terminated company to the extent of the member's proportionate share of the claim or the company's assets distributed to the member in liquidation, whichever is less, but a member's total liability for all claims under this section may not exceed the total amount of assets distributed to the member.
 
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I have to say what makes this hard to believe as someone with no skin in the game is that the last thing as I would do as a scammer, is fuck with people who shoot large calibers weapons as a hobby.

Not the first time something like this has happened to this community and it likely won’t be the last.

People who have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a hobby (for many, per year) have shit to lose and no amount of money is worth going to prison over for anyone with any decency.

For most it would also be far more satisfying knowing someone who wronged them is getting butt fucked in prison.
 
I have to say what makes this hard to believe as someone with no skin in the game is that the last thing as I would do as a scammer, is fuck with people who shoot large calibers weapons as a hobby.
The attention to detail in the people that were screwed over is what Scott should fear.

-Stan
 
The one off’s and Nigerian princes aside, it seems this community is hit with a “Major Scammer” every 2-3 years.
Individual opinions will vary due to differing definitions of “Major Scam”.
Some get a lot of traction and are publicly known and others not so much.

Some appear to be the “long con” others seem more like a guy just got careless and slowly slid to the dark side.

Both are tragic for the individuals scammed. Many on here can easily sustain a 2k or even larger hit without affecting their life. Others like the guy posting above “saved for a year” only to lose his money. That actually bothered me more than the 6k Pete scammed me for.

Good luck to all.
 
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Some appear to be the “long con” oth re s seem more like a guy just got careless and slowly slid to the dark side.

I'm betting on the latter, the slow slide. I've been dealing with Scott at Liberty since his days of selling blue ring IOR scopes on Sniper Central.
 
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I think it was a really bad move for Scott to voluntarily terminate his LLC or INC since it was his only legal line of defense from not getting sued personally. Thus the LLC = Limited Liability Company.

Mr Redneckbmxer maybe onto something. Surely there must be some members of the Hide who may actually live in close proximity to his last known address or his parents or other known address. Also lookup that other LLC physical address.

Maybe some concerned Hide residents even might want to file a missing persons report for Scott at as well since we are all legitimately concerned that he has in fact gone missing. At least the local police department would try to get in contact with Scott to see if he's all right and where's he at now.
 
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I think it was a really bad move for Scott to voluntarily terminate his LLC or INC since it was his only legal line of defense from not getting sued personally.

If your goal is to walk away, take people's money and run, why worry about closing out your LLC?

When his LLC was out of Ocala Florida, there was a second person listed. It was a "Managing Member". Was there one under his MT filing?
 
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I think it was a really bad move for Scott to voluntarily terminate his LLC or INC since it was his only legal line of defense from not getting sued personally. Thus the LLC = Limited Liability Company.

Mr Redneckbmxer maybe onto something. Surely there must be some members of the Hide who may actually live in close proximity to his last known address or his parents or other known address. Also lookup that other LLC physical address.

Maybe some concerned Hide residents even might want to file a missing persons report for Scott at as well since we are all legitimately concerned that he has in fact gone missing. At least the local police department would try to get in contact with Scott to see if he's all right and where's he at now.

I tracked the LLC the house is under through property records back to a Raymond J Hancock in Eagle, ID who appears to have no affiliation with Scott aside from maybe renting him a house. He appears to be an investor that owns a few properties and puts them each under a LLC for protection that’s registered to the last.

I’m not far from his dad here in FL but I don’t think this warrants visiting his parents and I wouldn’t do that or give that info out to anyone else to do it either. I don’t think a phone call to ask if he knows what’s going on with his son and see if he has any better contact info is unreasonable though.
 
If I understood it correctly, Vortex rescinded his net terms (so, cash on the barrel head, right?) because he owes them money.

For all the super sleuths looking for ways to track this guy down, I suspect that Vortex's lawyers and debt collection agencies will beat all others to the punch.
 
I tracked the LLC the house is under through property records back to a Raymond J Hancock in Eagle, ID who appears to have no affiliation with Scott aside from maybe renting him a house. He appears to be an investor that owns a few properties and puts them each under a LLC for protection that’s registered to the last.

I’m not far from his dad here in FL but I don’t think this warrants visiting his parents and I wouldn’t do that or give that info out to anyone else to do it either. I don’t think a phone call to ask if he knows what’s going on with his son and see if he has any better contact info is unreasonable though.
Sly guy putting all of his real estate under LLCs so it shields his properties from being garnished or losing via outside court judgements.

The dude obviously has plenty of money or at least substantial assets to show for. I would think if he planned to really scam everyone, he would be fleeing the Country instead of still owning several properties in the US or at least have them all listed for sale by now.

There's got to be more to this story. Some of these things simply doesn't make any sense to me.

The phone call and mailed letters to the parents expressing concerns about their son's whereabouts from hundreds of worried friends is a good idea.

Dissolving the Liberty Optics "LLC" part still doesn't make any sense to me though since all his houses have LLC's to protect himself from personally getting sued.
 
This appears like Scott knew what he was doing.

He went out with a big fuck you to everyone who kept him in business. He is giving every small business man that bad reputation he fought to prevent

Frank well said

On another note thank the Lord for good people like Scott and Shamus at Vortex for doing what they can to help. What a great company
 
If I understood it correctly, Vortex rescinded his net terms (so, cash on the barrel head, right?) because he owes them money.

For all the super sleuths looking for ways to track this guy down, I suspect that Vortex's lawyers and debt collection agencies will beat all others to the punch.
I don't think Vortex is owed any money. They don't have any reason to track Scott down. Customers pay Scott ($1900 or $2000) then he calls Vortex with customer's name and address to reserve their scope, he takes his cut (hypothetically $200 to $300) and send rest of the payment (hypothetically $1400 to $1600) to Vortex then Vortex sends scope to customer. In this case he called Vortex with customers info and address to reserve then wait the net 90 day or longer terms holding onto customers money in it's entirety and Vortex doesn't send any scope unless Scott pays them first.

I don't think he's got any debt collection agencies after him either. I think he has a lot of money and assets such as several real estate properties cleverly protected by his LLC's so nobody can take away his houses if he personally gets sued by anyone.
 
I don't think he's got any debt collection agencies after him either. I think he has a lot of money and assets such as several real estate properties cleverly protected by his LLC's so nobody can take away his houses if he personally gets sued by anyone.

There’s no indication those properties are Scott’s, other than in the impressively extensive alternative universe you’ve crafted in your mind on the basis of a lack of comprehension reading a prior post.
 
For all the super sleuths looking for ways to track this guy down, I suspect that Vortex's lawyers and debt collection agencies will beat all others to the punch.

Yes and no. Collection agencies have access to databases with all sorts of info. My uncle owns several collection agencies and I could have all of his info in a couple minutes, but that would be illegal AF. They can track him down easily but there’s a ton of laws protecting him beyond that as far as collections go and then he was doing business under an LLC which further complicates things. He can stall them for months contesting the debt before they can legally begin to attempt to collect it. Once it’s proven he owes any debt it’s often unlikely they’ll sue and even then he can just file bankruptcy.

An individual on the other hand who has been defrauded by being told an order has been placed to the distributor when it hasn’t and their money has been stolen can take legal action much faster. They can take both criminal and civil action against him, as they should.

My guess is that Scott deleted that thread thinking he nuked any evidence that could be used against him to prove he was defrauding customers.

If I were someone he’s stolen from I would call Flathead County Sheriff’s Office and file a report and see what’s needed to take action with them beyond that.
 
then wait the net 90 day or longer terms holding onto customers
Ah, I thought I had read that they rescinded his net terms...I thought it was in this thread somewhere...and thought that was related to debt. But, I'm often wrong! LOL
 
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Back to the "little guys"--I tried to spread the word in case there were other victims by posting on the regional precision Facebook forums. Encouraged them to reach out to Vortex if they had been victimized.

I got nuked because the admin thought I made Vortex look bad.....I wish I still had the post as I literally said "Vortex is being really stand up and stepping in to try and clean up this mess"

I was just trying to help the little guy because we are the ones who get screwed. And I got screwed. Its ticky tack and minor on my end (I know grow some fucking thick skin), but goddamn, can we just look out for each other rather than play a dick measuring contest.

I think I'm gonna just take up drugs. The dealers treat the users better. Today the shooting world can really just fuck off.
 
I don't think Vortex is owed any money. They don't have any reason to track Scott down. Customers pay Scott ($1900 or $2000) then he calls Vortex with customer's name and address to reserve their scope, he takes his cut (hypothetically $200 to $300) and send rest of the payment (hypothetically $1400 to $1600) to Vortex then Vortex sends scope to customer. In this case he called Vortex with customers info and address to reserve then wait the net 90 day or longer terms holding onto customers money in it's entirety and Vortex doesn't send any scope unless Scott pays them first.

I don't think he's got any debt collection agencies after him either. I think he has a lot of money and assets such as several real estate properties cleverly protected by his LLC's so nobody can take away his houses if he personally gets sued by anyone.

That’s not how it works, most dealer accounts work on 30-60 day terms where you’re billed as orders are placed and you have that window to pay with a monthly due date for credit orders. Some are longer but most are 30 or 60 days. It’s similar to how a credit card works only when you don’t pay your cut off instead of being charged interest and any orders you have in that have not shipped are held regardless of whether it’s a drop ship or a stocking order.

He’s also not making $200-$300 on orders, he’s making a few bucks on orders at the prices he’s been selling stuff for. Single and double digit profits at most.

Regarding real estate, there’s nothing in his name and none of the LLC’s come back to him or anyone with any apparent connection. Everything points to him not owning a damn thing, including his mistakes.
 
Sorry to hear about this ordered several things from him in the past. Hope y’all get your money back so kind of way.
Son of a bitch! This saddens me, though like some others I’ve seen it before with previously trustworthy vendors. I purchased many times from Scott over the past 10-12 years. It sucks for everyone.

I don't think Vortex is owed any money. They don't have any reason to track Scott down. Customers pay Scott ($1900 or $2000) then he calls Vortex with customer's name and address to reserve their scope, he takes his cut (hypothetically $200 to $300) and send rest of the payment (hypothetically $1400 to $1600) to Vortex then Vortex sends scope to customer. In this case he called Vortex with customers info and address to reserve then wait the net 90 day or longer terms holding onto customers money in it's entirety and Vortex doesn't send any scope unless Scott pays them first.

I don't think he's got any debt collection agencies after him either. I think he has a lot of money and assets such as several real estate properties cleverly protected by his LLC's so nobody can take away his houses if he personally gets sued by anyone.
Morning Gents,
My biggest priority right now is making sure all the customers are looked after. ( As of a few mins ago, i have responded to everyone via email.)
I am also going to do all i can for those who can't get their money back. My goal is that no one feels they lost in the end.
Please reach out if i can help.
Shamus Terry
[email protected]
 
Regarding real estate, there’s nothing in his name and none of the LLC’s come back to him or anyone with any apparent connection. Everything points to him not owning a damn thing, including his mistakes.

I really wonder what happened.

This doesn't seem like some elaborate scam where Scott rides off into the sunset with a bunch of money.

Instead, it's feeling like a sad tale of the guy going insolvent, probably through a series of not great decisions, and then deciding to fuck over his last customers to try and mitigate the losses.

Either way, sucks this happened. And it really sucks that there's a few in here wondering how they are going to recoup their money.
 
I ordered my scope June 15 and received it on Thursday of last week. As a contractor I can attest to how easy it is to upfront money and have people rob you blind. The hardest part is not losing the money, it’s the legal system that won’t do shit to the clowns that take everyone’s money. By the time you might actually get to court, the bastards have spent all the money. I feel badly for the guys who didn’t get their scopes. I guess I got lucky.
 
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I filed a chargeback with my CC. Sucks to be potentially be out significant money... but kudos to Vortex (Scott and Shamus) for jumping in to try and help us out.
 
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I've witnessed METH causing previously outstanding and well respected people to do really stupid things and ruin their entire lives and bring everyone close to them down with them. They just stop giving a crap about anything and change to a totally different unrecognizable person.
Ah, I thought I had read that they rescinded his net terms...I thought it was in this thread somewhere...and thought that was related to debt.
I get it but why would Vortex send drop ship scopes direct to customers without first getting paid for? If Vortex was shipping them only to Liberty Optics that would be a whole different story for the net 90 where Scott would appear to have ripped Vortex off.

If this is all a misunderstanding he would still send all of the customers' prepaid monies to Vortex since they have the names and addresses of the prepaid customers if he in fact called all the markers in as they were ordered.

On the other hand, I think it would be really nuts for a company such as Vortex to drop ship anything direct to customers without getting paid first anyway.

I do recall him stating he had to pay for couple of scopes out if his own pocket on my behalf to get them ready to ship directly to me in a timely manner. (Wasn't Vortex brand though) I ordered for myself and many shooting buddies at the same time to get the best quantity discount prices on bulk buys.
 
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If this is all a misunderstanding he would still send all of the customers' prepaid monies to Vortex since they have the names and addresses of the prepaid customers if he in fact called all the markers in as they were ordered.

If that were the case, he would not file to close the LLC until after all of the business has completed .... right? Same with the website ... and business cell phone.
 
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Not less prone to violence....just a more controlled application of it. The tap is always there when it's go time.

I would suggest that wording is incorrect.

Less prone to violence is correct.

That is different than being able to use force or violence effectively when needed.

I think you will find it play out almost every time that the good folks (like many on here) are very unlikely to resort to any violence, unless the matter is truly grave and there is no other way to deal with a threat.

As compared to certain other groups who seem greatly prone to violence for any or even no reason, but somehow are protected by the police and government...
 
I really wonder what happened.

This doesn't seem like some elaborate scam where Scott rides off into the sunset with a bunch of money.

Instead, it's feeling like a sad tale of the guy going insolvent, probably through a series of not great decisions, and then deciding to fuck over his last customers to try and mitigate the losses.

Either way, sucks this happened. And it really sucks that there's a few in here wondering how they are going to recoup their money.

Who knows but I’d guess either he fell off financially or his health. Either way it’s fucked up to burn your customers and go out with a shit reputation.

I get it but why would Vortex send drop ship scopes direct to customers without first getting paid for? If Vortex was shipping them only to Liberty Optics that would be a whole different story for the net 90 where Scott would appear to have ripped Vortex off.

I don’t get what’s so hard for you to understand. This is standard practice across the retail industry regardless of whether it’s a stocking order or a drop ship. What does it matter to the distributor where it goes? It’s on credit and either way it’s out of their possession so it makes no difference.
 
I agree that this group, like most true firearms enthusiast, are very much law abiding folks who would look to violence as the very last resort, and even then, for something like this where its not life or death, I highly doubt anyone would take it there.

But this group is very savvy and will use every legal means there is to try and get people what they are owed.
 
I called one number for the Dr. lady that supposedly owns the house, got a nice receptionist on the phone that says shes no longer there but volunteered another number and to transfer me, she answered and hung up as soon as I asked if she knew a Scott Berish.
Post the number
 
Well crap. Of course I’m seeing all this happening this morning, 121 days past my order