Lightening bolt lift

Austincqc

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What causes a heavy or rough bolt lift? I own a Savage and saw the link that Axe posted that showed where one could sand/smooth to reduce friction and how a ball bearing inside of a .38 case could reduce contact with the BAS.

Is the tough bolt lift caused by rough surfaces that need to be smoothed out?
 

Force_Multiplier

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  • May 22, 2008
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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    most of a hard bolt lift on a Savage, that is not hot ammo related, is due to the action being out of time, if it's really hard, send it to sharpshooters supply or stockade to be trued and timed
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    i sent mine. but with the stuff i had already done, i honestly cant tell its worth the $125. most of the heaviness you feel is cocking the firing pin. id love to see what stock feels like next to a bolt lift and some polishing in a few places to reduce friction. i had to scrub my new 10fcp as it was gritty with stuff. then i did this

    http://www.steyrscout.org/savscout.htm

    and then made this

    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1683157&page=1

    and when it came back from the T&T i really didnt notice it being better than before i sent it. it was 37 days in between, but with the polishing and $1.00 lift kit (if that) it was alot better than stock.

    try the free and low cost stuff first. then if you want, spend the $125. i dont think id do it again

    one thing, the places that you polish are places where there is contact between two coated metal parts on the FP line. i polished them smooth and to bare metal. keep them lubed and they move easier. its where the baffle rides on the bolt and where the handle hits and a few other places
     

    ryanjay11

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    I did a polishing job on the bolt and it seemed to help a little bit. I think the timing issue is really just SSS trying to make some money.

    If you don't want to make a custom 38 special case thingamabob, Stockade sells them ready to go for $7.50.

    http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/accessories.html

    I haven't ordered one yet because the bolt lift doesn't bother me that much, but I'll probably get one in the future.
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    its better than stock, but mine was not that far off from how it came back. i took my lift out, he put one in. im not saying it isnt timing, but with the lifting of the bolt compressing the firing pin spring, i think thats what you feel. i have never felt a 700 so i cant compare. maybe the neighbor has a 700 handy...

    oh and its only a buck to make a lift kit. took 15 minutes
     

    HugoStiglitz

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    I bought part # 6655K31 ($2.41) from McMaster-Carr. Removed the BAS, dropped the washer in 1st, followed by the well greased bearing race, discarded the 2nd washer(the BAS takes it's place). When reinstalling the BAS I put shims equal to the thickness of the newly installed parts between it and the bolt handle. REALLY decreased the effort, I take the #10 out of the safe most nights and dry fire (with snap-caps) 20-30 times trying to lap the action further (mine is a newer model).
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    ahh the thrust bearing approach. thats decent. when i did the lift kit, i didnt do anything but polish the face of the BAS on a flat surface. the lift kit wasnt thick enough to worry about. i use a heavy pane of glass with the 600 on it and keep the BAS flat as i make circles. worked well. try the polishing as well
     

    Austincqc

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    Sweet thanks guys. Axe, I saw those links before along with your thread on the DIY and saved them in my favorites. Good info! Since I read the HOW, I wanted to know the WHY.

    Oh...and I should have a new addition coming soon - .308 Precision Carbine! Since there have been some changes to the bolt release, bolt, etc, I'll give some visuals to the Savage newbies.

    A stock rem 700 felt just as heavy as a stock Savage FP when I was choosing my rifle at Cabela's. I went back and forth for about three weeks every third or fourth day picking up a Precision Carbine, 700 SPS, 10fp in choate and finally a 700 SPS T. The savage's felt a weee bit lighter but it may be due to the heavy bolt knob that gives you extra leverage (Thanks Savage!!).

    I had heard some people using lube (not the fun kind) to slick the bolt up a bit.
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    ok i typed this before and it was lost when my connection broke. ill try to remember what i typed...

    for the 10pc, look at the bolt lift thread i started. somewhere in there is a thrust bearing for a r/c car that will work with the cocking indicator in your 10pc.

    as far as making it smoothier... i polished the spots noted in that link and any others where the baffle contacts the bolt and the baffle contacts the bolt handle. then i lubed them up with a light grease. i used tetra grease. its supposed to penetrate and provide lube even when you cant see it. meh, its in a tube with a tip that i can apply easily, its thick enough to stay and thin enough to spread between parts after you cycle the bolt. i also looked at the bolt after alot of dry fire and any place i saw wear i greased. i may polish the bolt and the upper inner part (you will see where i mean) out in these places or try a dry film lube. but with that black finish on the parts, when they rub its friction. its a perfect birdsong candidate actually. but just doing these things and adding a lift kit had my action really smooth.

    here is my take on this, i could be wrong. the resistance that you feel is the firing pin being cocked. the only part thats giving resistance is the cocking pin as its compressing the spring and the friction from that pin against the bolt body ramp dealy (sorry for the technical speak). thats not gonna change, its inherent to the design. no clue how others do it, maybe they have a different design to cock, i cant say. but unless you get a lighter spring, thats pretty much gonna give you that resistance. again, i could be wrong, but in looking at everything and how the parts work in relation to the others, thats what we have with this design. in my opinion.

    now i had a T&T done and if anyone has a question about that, PM me. im still not sure how i feel about that process. there was alot of true-ing, making stuff flush, square, parallel, plumb- whatever and thats good. i see some stuff thats good, but does it affect the perceived lift? hard to say as i have nothing to compare it too. i took my lift kit out before i sent it, SSS installed another. i still am having a hard time telling it it is $125 better than it was with the work that i did. feeling it now and trying to compare to how it was 37 days ago... yeah. like i said i was totally happy with it the way i had it before i sent it. would i do it again on another rifle???? hmmm
     

    juliomorris

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    I used the thrust bearing from McMasters and cut the cocking sleeve donw the width of the bearing and 1 washer with a tubing cutter. I also polished the BAS and top of cocking sleeve with 600 grit sand paper. It seemed to cut the resistance by IMO by half.
    One thing i have noticed is the cocking sleeve and cocking pin rubbing on one of my rifles and i had to adjust firing pin slightly which helped lighten the bolt considerably but you have to be careful adusting the firing pin because you could create misfires. Is this the timing SSS refers to?
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    i cant get anything out of SSS on the whole process. i guess i need to read the posts on savage shooters and see whats up with the T&T cause thats where i think i found the description of the T&T. as for the adjustment you did for the sleeve and pin, id need to see it, i havent had it apart, ive only seen pictures of the internals and i didnt have a need to take that stuff apart. i have to do it to know it. when i get my spare pin assembly ill have a little more insight
     

    xr650rRider

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    Your probably a paid member and can read this.

    T&T comparisons on Savage Shooters website.

    Your not making me feel very good about the T&T but it is as I expected. Mines been gone right at 88 days and I still don't have it back (supposed to be on its way but with no tracking number who knows where it's at. Been told before it was on it's way). I had installed a lift kit and polished everything and it was much better than most other Savage Target actions, I've felt. I've got several other Savage Target actions, I can test it against once I get it back.
     

    pepperbelly

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    I collect old mllitary surplus rifles- like my '09 Swede M96. A lot of these old rifle are cock-on-opening, and a lot of the older guys do not like it. It makes it difficult to tell if you have hard bolt lift due to overpressure, etc. There are some "kits" that convert the bolt to cock-on-closing.
    I have no idea if something like that is available for modern rifles, but it is worth looking into.

    Jim
     

    AXEMAN

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xr650rRider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your probably a paid member and can read this.

    T&T comparisons on Savage Shooters website.

    Your not making me feel very good about the T&T but it is as I expected. Mines been gone right at 88 days and I still don't have it back (supposed to be on its way but with no tracking number who knows where it's at. Been told before it was on it's way). I had installed a lift kit and polished everything and it was much better than most other Savage Target actions, I've felt. I've got several other Savage Target actions, I can test it against once I get it back. </div></div>


    i never joined, im afraid ill spend even more money, lol. but i should just to peek at the classifieds. i know thats what i saw. i dont doubt for a minute that trued surfaces are better and that the machining is top notch and well thought out and the process is another step in maximizing every bit possible the action and eliminating poor machining. but maybe its just me and my way of looking at things, you still gotta cock that spring. making the bolts rotation at that state as friction free as possibly is really all you can do. i tried to put an uncocked bolt in and no go. i got all panicky, wtf... (if you ever have to do that, back the BAS out almost all the way and cock it then, there is less pressure on the spring, then retighten the BAS) then i realized what it was and what happens when to cock the bolt. that cocking pin moves fore and aft in the channel as its cocked. another spot for a polish & lube im thinking. 88 days is alot i know mine went in in last days of may, came back just after the 4th holidsay in july. email, or redail ad infinitum. i feel you there
     

    xr650rRider

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    Re: Lightening bolt lift

    Finally got my action back today. Mailed it 4/19/10 and was received 4/26/10. No word on complete rifle build. Action was sent for T&T. I had installed a lift kit and polished everything before hand. It was smoother when it was sent in. It was put together pretty dry, so maybe a little light lube will help. Only thing I can see that was done was bolt face has had a little taken off and the ejector tip is ground but other than that, the barrel nut, receiver face and recoil lug look untouched. Maybe they were true? First impressions are I wouldn't spend $143 again.