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"Long Distance Record Broken"

Why do you think Team AI stepped away and refused to come back, as well as others. They do shoot the .50 Cal Nationals and travel there in time. They shot it once and walked away. That says a lot when a competitor like Dave Walls says no thanks.

You don't understand what perception means either... everything is just personal with you guys. You cannot look at the event in a subjective matter in order to improve.

Pretending like there are no rumblings of Walt shooting is another head in the sand moment.

ELR competitors dont' want to invest the time, money and travel to go to Raton only to head home after one relay, but yet here you are.

I live 3 hours away and would never shoot it unless the format changes. I have been all over Raton and shot matches there, both on the Tubb Ranges and the outlying ranges since 2001. How long have you been on that property again? It's a choice, not a fear, or anything silly, its a choice to not participate. Weather is your excuse today ... wow

My guess is that Dave probably left because in the previous two years he had one hit on target. Not everyone can make the transition from static targets.

We are fully aware of the occasional bitching about Walt shooting and doing well. We just find the suggestion that he has an unfair advantage to be bullshit so we disregard it. Can we convince everyone that he never shoots at the targets when he is building the range out? No. Does he? Also, no. You don't have to know Walt very well to know that he is the most rigidly adherent person to rules that you will ever meet. That is why we disregard this complaint without giving it a second thought.

You are correct. Nobody wants to hump across the country to a fire six shots and then be sent home. We don't want that either but we have a narrow band of time between 0800 and 1300 in which we can shoot. Given how much time you have evidently spent there, you know that after around 1300 the wind starts to really suck and there is a 50:50 chance that it will piss rain and pepper the mountain with lightning. We got lucky during Ko2M this year but the FCSA World championships a few days later got repeatedly drenched and driven off the line. Running the match as elimination means the average time a shooter is on the line is shorter and we can move things along faster. It also means that we have fewer rounds downrange that can potentially take out a target or camera and stop shooting for a few hours while we fix it. We are sticking with elimination because there are significant logistics concerns that we need to deal with to allow as many shooters as we can to have their chance.

You are telling me that we are screwing up and driving shooters away but for the last three years we have had more shooters that have applied to shoot than we can possibly accept. The people that wipe out on the first target are usually unhappy about it but literally every shooter that screwed the pooch in 2018 applied to shoot in 2019. The people that are usually vocal in their displeasure are the people that don't get to shoot at all.

To this end we managed to move the line along way faster this year and clear 80 shooters with time to spare. We had some lessons learned from that and we hope to significantly expand the number of shooters we can take next year while running it more smoothly. We are also trying to arrange side events so people can get more trigger time while they are out there.

You talk about perceptions but you seem to ignore the possibility that one of the perceptions that needs to change is yours.

-Alex
 
Other events know how to move people,

If the GAP GRIND can move 400 people in a weekend on less than 150 acres, you all with a 100 person firing line and 1000s of acres of Raton can do better.

Also, I was the Range Officer at the World Record event in Vegas. We moved people by actually having a line and not bringing up two shooters at a team. I don't recall seeing you there, but you might have been. Try lining up 10 teams and going down the line in short order, I know it's work, but a better work ethic appears to be the missing elements. Doing what is easier for you vs stepping up to accommodate more.

tell me this, what match at Raton beside yours stops at 1 PM, I have shot plenty of matches there, Raton Sporting Rifle, Spirit of America F Class and not once do I recall stopping at 1 PM.

The idea because we are not participating in YOUR event means we don't understand this is comical. Sure Raton has weather, it has thermals that rise up the cliff face, it has wind, Fuck I have nothing but wind on my range here in CO which goes every 100 yards to a mile and I can back up to 3000 yards. Do we stop because the winds creep up, no?

Competitions run into weather all the time. Weather is life.

Changing my perception, lol that is funny too. You have a 1/2 inch of experience yet you act as if you know more than those who have done this for years beyond you.

perception is a funny thing, you admit you see it but ignore it all because you don't agree with it.
 
Oh and PS,

Your growth is a product of marketing, like when Teams use their "win" or success to sell.

Kelly McMillan with ELR Central,

AB with their wins,

Hornady, Bushnell with Brantley,

Others have taken the ball and run with it. If it sells a product being used, teams will promote it for you.

I would look at other metrics as well, but that is another topic. If you really want to debate me on marketing and the success, try looking at the other ELR Events people do enjoy, like Spearpoint.

numbers alone don't tell the whole story.
 
Yeah our work ethic clearly sucks. Downright layabout wastrels one and all... If you want to call us out on not recruiting more people to help run things so we aren't working 20 hours a day while the match is running and occasionally fucking things up because we are too tired, I'll take that criticism. Saying that our work ethic is lacking seems at best, unaware.

When it comes to the short range matches you have shot at raton, I agree. The only time it is reasonable to hold up a match for rain is when the targets are falling apart or there is a thunderstorm passing through. When it comes to running Ko2M, we are trying to get it done in a window in which shooting conditions aren't hugely different from one another. It isn't ever going to be perfect but the mornings are reasonably consistent. We could run a much shittier match with way more people if we forced people to keep shooting through the worst conditions of the day but that doesn't seem like it makes our match better unless your only metric is how many participants there are.

If it was a simple matter of wind and thermals I could shrug it off and say it is just part of the game, get over it. With the rain out there you have a chance of dropping visibility enough to make seeing the targets a challenge but more than that, once the ground is wet it is essentially impossible to see impacts off target. If a spotter can't call correction then a shooter that misses his first shot is pretty much screwed on that target. There are considerations like that all through our decision making process. While many things we do don't have an obvious reason from the outside, they are rarely arbitrary choices.

You helped run a very simple ELR event once. Wow. It must have been so perfect in every way that nobody felt the need to do it again. Tell us, oh wise one, how we can succeed like that... I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to achieve here. It seems like we aren't doing things correctly simply because we are ignoring your advice. We listen to feedback from the people that shoot our match and we talk to other ELR match directors frequently. We do not generally take feedback from people that have never shot an ELR match before because their perspectives are not based upon experience. If you would like to make suggestions on how to improve the spectator experience, I'd be happy to consider it though.

You haven't come most of our matches so you don't really see how things change from year to year. We moved people through at about 5 minutes per shooter which is about twice the previous years clearance rate. Everyone still had enough set up time and there was pretty much always someone actively shooting so it was better for spectators too. I need to deal with some multicasting issues so it is a better show for people watching hits on the displays, but the feedback we got was overwhelmingly positive. Are we sold on that being the best way to do it? No. We will keep improving how we run things over time as we always have.

ELR is still an evolving sport and as such, there are some rough areas that need to get refined by trial and error. We have made mistakes and we have worked to keep them from happening again. We will continue to improve things over time through our experience and that of our peers. If at some point you become one of them, you will find us much more willing to listen. You will find that your point of view has changed in the process though.

-Alex
 
Hey guys,
Paul Phillips here,

I don’t get on here much. I saw the 7070 yard impact thread and I thought I would set the record straight. This was a team GPG practice only. No record breaking event or attempt. While we are practicing we also like to test and evaluate and work new technology in sights, barrels, scopes, Bullets etc... I helped create the rules and organized the first ELR world record event in Las Vegas where we had 3 shooters go 3/3 on a 36 inch plate at 1500 and 1760 yards. We support this as the official World record format. There are several organizations that now hold these standards. Myself and Bryan litz actually were the first team to go 3/3 at 1500 and it was soon beat by Nate stalter and David Tubb. It has since been beaten at another event that I help organize at the NRA Nationals / ELR central world record attempt. The 3-4 mile attempts is nothing more then testing equipment and having some fun to see how far we can make impacts on steel. We have learned a lot from doing this and team GPG finished 1,3,4 at the king of 2 miles in 2019. 3.4 mile impact and 4 mile impacts are not any records. They are just personal best for what we are doing. We are just having fun in the long range and extreme long range shooting world while practicing pushing the distances to hopefully become better at 2 miles.
We all use 416 Barrett’s with 550 cutting edge laser Bullets.
important fact: there have only been 5 shooters to make a 2 mile impact in competition at the king of 2 mile history starting in 2015. 2/5 of those shooters are on team GPG.
we are very excited about seeing where all of the technology goes and we see the sport of ELR growing very fast. There will be 100 teams this year at 2020 king of 2 mile and we also have king of 2 mile events happening all over the globe.
Hope to see you guys on the range
Cheers !!
 
Last edited:
Hey guys,
I don’t get on here much. I saw the 7070 yard impact thread and I thought I would set the record straight. This was a team GPG practice only. No record breaking event or attempt. While we are practicing we also like to test and evaluate and work new technology in sights, barrels, scopes, Bullets etc... I helped create the rules and organized the first ELR world record event in Las Vegas where we had 3 shooters go 3/3 on a 36 inch plate at 1500 and 1760 yards. We support this as the official World record format. There are several organizations that now hold these standards. Myself and Bryan litz actually were the first team to go 3/3 at 1500 and it was soon beat by Nate stalter and David Tubb. It has since been beaten at another event that I help organize at the NRA Nationals / ELR central world record attempt. The 3-4 mile attempts is nothing more then testing equipment and having some fun to see how far we can make impacts on steel. We have learned a lot from doing this and team GPG finished 1,3,4 at the king of 2 miles in 2019. 3.4 mile impact and 4 mile impacts are not any records. They are just personal best for what we are doing. We are just having fun in the long range and extreme long range shooting world while practicing pushing the distances to hopefully become better at 2 miles.
We all use 416 Barrett’s with 550 cutting edge laser Bullets.
important fact: there have only been 5 shooters to make a 2 mile impact in competition at the king of 2 mile history starting in 2015. 2/5 of those shooters are on team GPG.
we are very excited about seeing where all of the technology goes and we see the sport of ELR growing very fast. There will be 100 teams this year at 2020 king of 2 mile and we also have king of 2 mile events happening all over the globe.
Hope to see you guys on the range
Cheers !!
Paul?