Long range build advice

[Moto41]

Hey all. I want to ask for some advice here. Let me give some background:

I own a few thousand acre ranch here in central TX. Have targets out to 1.5mile. I’m an FFL/SOT licensee. Avid shooter as a hobby. I have a ton of builds but usually find myself shooting a stock bergara 6.5CM or Christensen arms 6.5PRC. I consider myself a decent shooter. I put in the time to learn. Both guns shoot sub moa. Inside 1000k yards, either weapon is no problem to land shots on a 12x18 steal target. However, once I reach out to 1250 and beyond, it is much tougher to hit. Mile is almost impossible. I attribute that to my skill first, also my range sits W to E and ALWAYS get a good crosswind of 5-20mph. I don’t reload (yet) but the ammo I shoot usually prints single digit variance in FPS, plus I buy at wholesale so im good with it. I LIKE the recoil of the 6.5. Just makes it fun to shoot. I shoot daily.

I’m going down the rabbit hole of building a good PRS rifle and REALLY curious what caliber to build. Really this would be to reach out beyond 1000 yards and at the same time, not rip my face off shooting a ton of rounds. Most everything I shoot is suppressed. I’m prolly gonna go the MDT Elite Chassis. But again, I am stuck on caliber. I see all this 6mm-6GT etc BUT I assume im gonna struggle with wind still with that light of bullet, hence thinking more like a 300NM. But that I just my limited research so far. I follow this thread religiously and y’all tend to nail it……so I figure I would ask y’all!

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you. Tim

 

[Rob01]

If you are looking for a PRS rifle and looking at a 300NM then you need to do a lot more looking. Or are you using “PRS” as a generic term?

 

[Moto41]

More of a generic term. The guns I shoot now are ”off the shelf”.

 

[spife7980]

A “PRS gun” isn’t going to be intended for 1250+, in fact it’s the opposite. It’s smaller calibers with less recoil and consequentially they run out of steam way out there. Your 6.5 creed is large end for prs and you’ve found that out yourself.

 

[Moto41]

A “PRS gun” isn’t going to be intended for 1250+, in fact it’s the opposite. It’s smaller calibers with less recoil and consequentially they run out of steam way out there. Your 6.5 creed is large end for prs and you’ve found that out yourself.

Yessir. I guess I use the term “PRS” and it doesn’t apply. Let me re-phase: I want to be able to stretch out there and extend my abilities and hit targets. Don’t get me wrong, I can hit them w my 6.5 creed, but it’s one outta 10 shots. I think the bullet is just too light to match my own shooting abilities.

 

[Rob01]

More of a generic term. The guns I shoot now are ”off the shelf”.

Well I’d stop using it if you are looking at a magnum as it will cause all sorts of confusion.

1250 yards is simple for a Creedmoor and even a mile is doable but if you want to do it regularly and have no problem with magnums then go that route for sure. A 300PRC would do it and allow some factory ammo options if you wanted them. You plan to hand load right?

 

[Moto41]

Well I’d stop using it if you are looking at a magnum as it will cause all sorts of confusion.

1250 yards is simple for a Creedmoor and even a mile is doable but if you want to do it regularly and have no problem with magnums then go that route for sure. A 300PRC would do it and allow some factory ammo options if you wanted them. You plan to hand load right?

Yessir. I’m not married to the 300NM. Just based on my own research, I have narrowed in. If you were shooting 1500-1mile, what would you run? At some point, I would hand load….yes. But off shelf ammo to start

 

[sheepdog697]

Maybe take a look at 7prc if you want similar distance capabilities as the 300prc, but less recoil. Factory ammo is available as well.

 

[Rob01]

Yessir. I’m not married to the 300NM. Just based on my own research, I have narrowed in. If you were shooting 1500-1mile, what would you run? At some point, I would hand load….yes. But off shelf ammo to start

Off the shelf ammo I would go 300PRC or the 7PRC mentioned above. If you are serious about those ranges though then you definitely should load as you can change bullets and powder to tweak a good load.

Also don’t go short on the barrel. I would be looking at a minimum of 28” for a big magnum and wanting to do what you want.

 

[Moto41]

Off the shelf ammo I would go 300PRC or the 7PRC mentioned above. If you are serious about those ranges though then you definitely should load as you can change bullets and powder to tweak a good load.

Also don’t go short on the barrel. I would be looking at a minimum of 28” for a big magnum and wanting to do what you want.

Ok…great intel.

Would you go and build one on an MDT chassis with say a Detroit barreled action etc? Never shot one and want to build one. Is there a huge difference between something like that and a good off the shelf rifle? Not to say $ isn’t an object, but would spend it you said it was that much difference. Thank you sir!

 

[DownhillFromHere]

So, OP,

I’m going down the rabbit hole of building a good PRS rifle and REALLY curious what caliber to build. Really this would be to reach out beyond 1000 yards and at the same time, not rip my face off shooting a ton of rounds.

"PRS" and "beyond 1000 yards" don't mix - at least here in the central Atlantic region. Maybe things are different in Texas and other wide-open regions, but the farthest I've ever shot in a PRS-style match is 1100ish yards and the vast majority of targets are inside 700.

I started this class of competition 7+ years ago with a 6.5 Creedmoor. This (2025) is my 2nd year competing with a 6BR. With a 10mph full-value crosswind, 1000-yard elevation/wind holds for 6.5mm 140gr and 6mm 105gr bullets at 2775fps vary by around 1.0/.5 mils respectively. At 500 yards, there is less than .2 mils difference between the two.

In return for dialing in that extra bit of "up" and holding a tenth or two or three more wind, I cut my powder consumption by a third, barrels last longer*, and it's easier to control recoil and see splash off props. Worst downside less splash to aid in determining correction. I'll take the tradeoff for sure.

Of course, if I shoot a match at one of the venues where longer ranges and higher wind are the norm, I'll screw the Creedmoor barrel back on. I've shot the mile my Creedmoor. It is in no way shape or form meant to shoot that far with consistent accuracy. Expecting a 6GT-class round to shoot accurately at that range is just silly.
----------
* Anecdotal. I sold two 6.5CM rifles before their barrels wore out (with full disclosure of round count to the buyers), and my current 6.5CM barrel still shoots well at 2500 rounds. My buddies all report 2500ish round barrel life for that caliber with "sane" handloads. No one I know has worn out a 6BR barrel yet; one guy has 3500+ rounds on his and it's still good.
----------

once I reach out to 1250 and beyond, it is much tougher to hit. Mile is almost impossible.

So now you're in "ELR" territory, not PRS. In this space, a .300 NM makes sense. If you want to stay with factory ammo, .300 PRC may make more sense from an ammo availability perspective.

I've only shot a .300 PRC once; it was a buddy's 12ish-pound hunting rig. It had a big 5-port brake on it. Recoil wasn't terrible, but I wouldn't want to shoot a match's worth of rounds (75-100) through it. And muzzle blast was ferocious.

If you want to shoot 3/4-plus mile targets and find it difficult with a 6.5PRC, you'll kick yourself hard for wasting money on any 6mm caliber. Get your .30-cal or larger boomer and enjoy.
-----
EDIT: Rob and sheepdog beat me to the "post" button....

 

[Rob01]

Ok…great intel.

Would you go and build one on an MDT chassis with say a Detroit barreled action etc? Never shot one and want to build one. Is there a huge difference between something like that and a good off the shelf rifle? Not to say $ isn’t an object, but would spend it you said it was that much difference. Thank you sir!

I wouldn’t build on any action that you can not buy a shouldered prefit barrel for. I wouldn’t buy a factory rifle if you are serious about accuracy. You can get a long action Zermatt Origin for $1000, a 28” PVA Osprey 9 twist shouldered prefit barrel in a nice heavy contour, trigger and stock of choice and be on the way.

Never heard of a Detroit barreled action. Sorry.

 

[Moto41]

I wouldn’t build on any action that you can not buy a shouldered prefit barrel for. I wouldn’t buy a factory rifle if you are serious about accuracy. You can get a long action Zermatt Origin for $1000, a 28” PVA Osprey 9 twist shouldered prefit barrel in a nice heavy contour, trigger and stock of choice and be on the way.

Never heard of a Detroit barreled action. Sorry.

Ok…awesome stuff! I’m reading threads now about the 7PRC. Seems like it fits more my style in that it wont beat the crap outta me and will get the job done at 1500+. U like the 7PRC or the 300PRC?

 

[Moto41]

So, OP,

"PRS" and "beyond 1000 yards" don't mix - at least here in the central Atlantic region. Maybe things are different in Texas and other wide-open regions, but the farthest I've ever shot in a PRS-style match is 1100ish yards and the vast majority of targets are inside 700.

I started this class of competition 7+ years ago with a 6.5 Creedmoor. This (2025) is my 2nd year competing with a 6BR. With a 10mph full-value crosswind, 1000-yard elevation/wind holds for 6.5mm 140gr and 6mm 105gr bullets at 2775fps vary by around 1.0/.5 mils respectively. At 500 yards, there is less than .2 mils difference between the two.

In return for dialing in that extra bit of "up" and holding a tenth or two or three more wind, I cut my powder consumption by a third, barrels last longer*, and it's easier to control recoil and see splash off props. Worst downside less splash to aid in determining correction. I'll take the tradeoff for sure.

Of course, if I shoot a match at one of the venues where longer ranges and higher wind are the norm, I'll screw the Creedmoor barrel back on. I've shot the mile my Creedmoor. It is in no way shape or form meant to shoot that far with consistent accuracy. Expecting a 6GT-class round to shoot accurately at that range is just silly.
----------
* Anecdotal. I sold two 6.5CM rifles before their barrels wore out (with full disclosure of round count to the buyers), and my current 6.5CM barrel still shoots well at 2500 rounds. My buddies all report 2500ish round barrel life for that caliber with "sane" handloads. No one I know has worn out a 6BR barrel yet; one guy has 3500+ rounds on his and it's still good.
----------

So now you're in "ELR" territory, not PRS. In this space, a .300 NM makes sense. If you want to stay with factory ammo, .300 PRC may make more sense from an ammo availability perspective.

I've only shot a .300 PRC once; it was a buddy's 12ish-pound hunting rig. It had a big 5-port brake on it. Recoil wasn't terrible, but I wouldn't want to shoot a match's worth of rounds (75-100) through it. And muzzle blast was ferocious.

If you want to shoot 3/4-plus mile targets and find it difficult with a 6.5PRC, you'll kick yourself hard for wasting money on any 6mm caliber. Get your .30-cal or larger boomer and enjoy.
-----
EDIT: Rob and sheepdog beat me to the "post" button....

Yessir….I agree. I shoot my 6.5 (cm and PRC) both all day inside 1000 yards. I love them both. Prolly like the 6.5cm the best. I shot my buds 300PRC and it’s tough to get through a box of ammo! Ha. Folks are saying 7PRC or 300PRC but would love your take on the 300NM vs these other choices. Thank you sir.

 

[Rob01]

Ok…awesome stuff! I’m reading threads now about the 7PRC. Seems like it fits more my style in that it wont beat the crap outta me and will get the job done at 1500+. U like the 7PRC or the 300PRC?

Either will work. The 300 is a bigger cartridge so it will kick more but a heavy rifle and a good brake it shouldn’t be too bad. Same for the 7PRC. Below is a pic of all and the 6.5 that you have for comparison.

 

[Rob01]

Yessir….I agree. I shoot my 6.5 (cm and PRC) both all day inside 1000 yards. I love them both. Prolly like the 6.5cm the best. I shot my buds 300PRC and it’s tough to get through a box of ammo! Ha. Folks are saying 7PRC or 300PRC but would love your take on the 300NM vs these other choices. Thank you sir.

You don’t hand load so I wouldn’t even look at the 300NM. Go price factory ammo for it. lol

 

[Moto41]

Either will work. The 300 is a bigger cartridge so it will kick more but a heavy rifle and a good brake it shouldn’t be too bad. Same for the 7PRC. Below is a pic of all and the 6.5 that you have for comparison.

View attachment 8722818

Y’all are awesome! That set up you suggested above w the Zermatt etc, would you do that for either the 7PRC and 300PRC?

 

[Rob01]

Y’all are awesome! That set up you suggested above w the Zermatt etc, would you do that for either the 7PRC and 300PRC?

Yup.

 

[Moto41]

Yup.

You the man! Thank you sir. If y’all ever come down to TX: Hit me up. Would love to have ya out. We are located in Lampasas TX. My view from our top range. We have one down below we call the “par 3 course”. That one goes to 650 yards. This one we can go to just about 2 miles.

 

[Rob01]

You the man! Thank you sir. If y’all ever come down to TX: Hit me up. Would love to have ya out. We are located in Lampasas TX. My view from our top range. We have one down below we call the “par 3 course”. That one goes to 650 yards. This one we can go to just about 2 miles.

Thanks and have fun. Also you can just change the barrel and have the other PRC that you didn’t chose also. All easily done at home.

 

[Moto41]

Thanks and have fun. Also you can just change the barrel and have the other PRC that you didn’t chose also. All easily done at home.

I’m looking at these Deviant actions. You like those? It’s a long action the 7PRC yea? So many options….im not sure that one I need.

 

[Moto41]

I’m looking at these Deviant actions. You like those? It’s a long action the 7PRC yea? So many options….im not sure that one I need.

Sorry…ruckus, defiance

 

[Rob01]

Defiance makes good actions too. I just mentioned the Origin as it’s less expensive and still quality. Also you can change the bolt face easily as well but that’s not something that will probably happen with the long action and your needs.

 

[Rocketmandb]

@Moto41 the vast majority of my shooting is in the 1500 yard+ regime. Since you've got easy access to longer ranges, I'll tell you that you will eventually keep moving out farther and farther.

Since you're not going to be reloading to start, here are my takes on applicable calibers, starting from the smallest and moving up:

6.5 PRC

Effective max range: depending on the ground conditions, a mile is the realistic max. If you've got a lot a ground cover near the target or if the ground stays somewhat damp, then you won't spot misses at a mile. The bullets are just too light. Even spotting hits can be difficult.
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices here.
Max Bullet Weight: 156gr - You can get Berger ammo, which is probably the best you can get short of going custom, in 153.5gr and 156 gr.
My Take: I like the round as a good intermediate range option, but it struggles out longer, mainly due to visibility


7 PRC

Effective max range: Similar to the 6.5 PRC, but you can get out a little farther and spot a little better.
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices here, but probably the fewest choices of the bunch.
Max Bullet Weight: 197gr - unfortunately, I don't believe you can get this in factory ammo (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't bought factory rifle ammo in 10 years). I believe the max you can get is the Hornady 180 gr VLD - meh. Berger doesn't make ammo for this round yet. You can always get custom ammo developed using the 197s.
My Take: I am not a fan of this round for ELR - it's a tweener. It's great for hunters who need a heavier bullet/more energy than a 6.5 can deliver, but still want a light rifle where moving up to the 300 PRC would deliver too much recoil. If you're building a heavier target rifle where the weight helps with the recoil, there's no reason to go with a 7 PRC over a 300 PRC.


300 PRC

Effective max range: a mile to a mile and a quarter is the sweet spot for this rifle. Past about 2100, you need really favorable conditions to spot both hits and misses.
Factory Ammo: A ton of great options here, including Berger with 245s and 215s
Max Bullet Weight: 250gr Hornady A Tips and 245 gr Bergers - I'm not a huge fan of either in this rifle - you get better performance out of 215s, 220s or 230s. Not that something like the 245s won't work, though.
My Take: I've had a 300 PRC since the round came out and it remains my favorite to shoot. I regularly shoot it at ranges between a mile and 2250 yards and it performs well and is easy to spot (beyond 2100 it starts to get tougher).


300 Norma

Effective max range: 2200 - 2300
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices, including Berger 230 OTM Tactical
Max Bullet Weight: Same as 300 PRC - though the main reason to go to a Norma over a PRC is to shoot the biggest of 308 bullets.
My Take: The Norma is a great round, but it really shines with the heavier bullets. If you're not shooting those, you're leaving something on the table. Available factory ammo doesn't cater to this (though the 230 Bergers aren't bad).


Other Notes:
- Once you start reloading, the 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC and 300 Norma all have the ability to get Lapua brass. I've said it a hundred times or more on this site, I will never again get a caliber for which Lapua brass is not an option. The 7 PRC does not yet have Lapua.
- For your first foray into heavier rounds, I would not recommend a 338. Get used to something a little more tame first.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Sorry…ruckus, defiance

I've got two Defiance Deviants - my favorite actions, even over my custom BAT on my 375.

 

[Moto41]

@Moto41 the vast majority of my shooting is in the 1500 yard+ regime. Since you've got easy access to longer ranges, I'll tell you that you will eventually keep moving out farther and farther.

Since you're not going to be reloading to start, here are my takes on applicable calibers, starting from the smallest and moving up:

6.5 PRC

Effective max range: depending on the ground conditions, a mile is the realistic max. If you've got a lot a ground cover near the target or if the ground stays somewhat damp, then you won't spot misses at a mile. The bullets are just too light. Even spotting hits can be difficult.
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices here.
Max Bullet Weight: 156gr - You can get Berger ammo, which is probably the best you can get short of going custom, in 153.5gr and 156 gr.
My Take: I like the round as a good intermediate range option, but it struggles out longer, mainly due to visibility


7 PRC

Effective max range: Similar to the 6.5 PRC, but you can get out a little farther and spot a little better.
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices here, but probably the fewest choices of the bunch.
Max Bullet Weight: 197gr - unfortunately, I don't believe you can get this in factory ammo (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't bought factory rifle ammo in 10 years). I believe the max you can get is the Hornady 180 gr VLD - meh. Berger doesn't make ammo for this round yet. You can always get custom ammo developed using the 197s.
My Take: I am not a fan of this round for ELR - it's a tweener. It's great for hunters who need a heavier bullet/more energy than a 6.5 can deliver, but still want a light rifle where moving up to the 300 PRC would deliver too much recoil. If you're building a heavier target rifle where the weight helps with the recoil, there's no reason to go with a 7 PRC over a 300 PRC.


300 PRC

Effective max range: a mile to a mile and a quarter is the sweet spot for this rifle. Past about 2100, you need really favorable conditions to spot both hits and misses.
Factory Ammo: A ton of great options here, including Berger with 245s and 215s
Max Bullet Weight: 250gr Hornady A Tips and 245 gr Bergers - I'm not a huge fan of either in this rifle - you get better performance out of 215s, 220s or 230s. Not that something like the 245s won't work, though.
My Take: I've had a 300 PRC since the round came out and it remains my favorite to shoot. I regularly shoot it at ranges between a mile and 2250 yards and it performs well and is easy to spot (beyond 2100 it starts to get tougher).


300 Norma

Effective max range: 2200 - 2300
Factory Ammo: You have decent availability and choices, including Berger 230 OTM Tactical
Max Bullet Weight: Same as 300 PRC - though the main reason to go to a Norma over a PRC is to shoot the biggest of 308 bullets.
My Take: The Norma is a great round, but it really shines with the heavier bullets. If you're not shooting those, you're leaving something on the table. Available factory ammo doesn't cater to this (though the 230 Bergers aren't bad).


Other Notes:
- Once you start reloading, the 6.5 PRC, 300 PRC and 300 Norma all have the ability to get Lapua brass. I've said it a hundred times or more on this site, I will never again get a caliber for which Lapua brass is not an option. The 7 PRC does not yet have Lapua.
- For your first foray into heavier rounds, I would not recommend a 338. Get used to something a little more tame first.

Excellent take! Thank you for taking the time to share that. Very informative. It looks like you are on the 300PRC for me yea? I was just reading the same think on the 7PRC. And you are dead right, once I get to 1mile, im gonna want 1.5 miles…and beyond.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Excellent take! Thank you for taking the time to share that. Very informative. It looks like you are on the 300PRC for me yea? I was just reading the same think on the 7PRC. And you are dead right, once I get to 1mile, im gonna want 1.5 miles…and beyond.

Admittedly, I'm quite biased toward the 300 PRC. It will struggle at 1.5 miles - though, so will the Norma - due to visibility. The key is a light-weight target and dry dirt around it. I have a 33" square 1/4" AR500 target that barely moves when hit past 2200. I've designed a target with 6" slats that hang next to each other that will provide better visibility on hits - I just need to find someone to build it for me for a decent price.

Frankly, the Norma has more umph and is a great round. It has less applicable ammo available, though. Either would be great.

 

[Moto41]

Admittedly, I'm quite biased toward the 300 PRC. It will struggle at 1.5 miles - though, so will the Norma - due to visibility. The key is a light-weight target and dry dirt around it. I have a 33" square 1/4" AR500 target that barely moves when hit past 2200. I've designed a target with 6" slats that hang next to each other that will provide better visibility on hits - I just need to find someone to build it for me for a decent price.

Frankly, the Norma has more umph and is a great round. It has less applicable ammo available, though. Either would be great.

Excellent. I have a good set up to see splash. Did you build your 300?

 

[Moto41]

And I’m assuming go a steal barrel and not Carbon for the extra weight on the 300PRC?

 

[Rob01]

And I’m assuming go a steal barrel and not Carbon for the extra weight on the 300PRC?

Of course. No reason to spend more for a carbon fiber wrapped barrel in your use. I’d get something heavy like a Comp Contour or even a straight 1.25” barrel. The weight will do nothing more than help deaden the recoil.

Osprey 30 cal Prefit Barrels - All Actions

Precision rifle prefit barrels for all actions, custom ordered and ready to install. No machining or gunsmithing required. Match winning Osprey barrels by Patriot Valley Arms; we Engineer Repeatability. 100% Made in USA

patriotvalleyarms.com

 

[Moto41]

Of course. No reason to spend more for a carbon fiber wrapped barrel in your use. I’d get something heavy like a Comp Contour or even a straight 1.25” barrel. The weight will do nothing more than help deaden the recoil.

Osprey 30 cal Prefit Barrels - All Actions

Precision rifle prefit barrels for all actions, custom ordered and ready to install. No machining or gunsmithing required. Match winning Osprey barrels by Patriot Valley Arms; we Engineer Repeatability. 100% Made in USA

patriotvalleyarms.com

Yessir, thank you. Boy, it’s sure hard to find the action! Everywhere is like 12-18 weeks! But I want it NOW!!! Ha

 

[Rob01]

Go look in the PX. Might find one now. lol

 

[Moto41]

Go look in the PX. Might find one now. lol

PX? Sorry newbie here

 

[Kickin45]

I don’t know nearly as much as several that have already commented.
I also was an early adopter of 300prc, and it’s a very efficient round. However….
After some very minor tweaking, a quick throat job and Han loading, I’ve gone back to 300WM.
With the extra freebore, I’ve managed to actually surpass the performance of the factory 300PRC.
I load the 230’s long at 2865fps.
Have room to add more juice, but I’m happy with the performance out to 1500yds.
My second reason was ammo accessibility.
300 PRC here is hit and miss. And I don’t always have time (or desire) to handload.
But I can pick up a box of factory 200gn or even 220gn 300WM at every single ammo shop around.
300wm also has Lapua, Peterson and ADG brass available for reloading.

This is all just another option.
If I were just going factory available ammo, or very minimal hand loads, I’d stick with 300PRC
Knowing what I know now after shooting 300 PRC for the last 3 1/2 years, and realizing the potential of the 300 WM, personally, I I stick with the win mag.
Just my 2c

 

[Moto41]

I don’t know nearly as much as several that have already commented.
I also was an early adopter of 300prc, and it’s a very efficient round. However….
After some very minor tweaking, a quick throat job and Han loading, I’ve gone back to 300WM.
With the extra freebore, I’ve managed to actually surpass the performance of the factory 300PRC.
I load the 230’s long at 2865fps.
Have room to add more juice, but I’m happy with the performance out to 1500yds.
My second reason was ammo accessibility.
300 PRC here is hit and miss. And I don’t always have time (or desire) to handload.
But I can pick up a box of factory 200gn or even 220gn 300WM at every single ammo shop around.
300wm also has Lapua, Peterson and ADG brass available for reloading.

This is all just another option.
If I were just going factory available ammo, or very minimal hand loads, I’d stick with 300PRC
Knowing what I know now after shooting 300 PRC for the last 3 1/2 years, and realizing the potential of the 300 WM, personally, I I stick with the win mag.
Just my 2c

Yessir. Thank you for taking the time to explain. I sincerely appreciate ya.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Yessir….I agree. I shoot my 6.5 (cm and PRC) both all day inside 1000 yards. I love them both. Prolly like the 6.5cm the best. I shot my buds 300PRC and it’s tough to get through a box of ammo! Ha. Folks are saying 7PRC or 300PRC but would love your take on the 300NM vs these other choices. Thank you sir.

I think Rob and Rocketman really covered the differences between 7PRC and 300PRC.

Here's something to keep in mind if you're coming from a factory rifle background: I assume you're building a for-purpose ELR rifle, which will only be used from a support; in this regard weight and barrel length are your friends. Barrel length 28" or more. Barrel contour on the heavy side (Heavy Varmint or similar). APA Fat Bastard or similar 5-port brake - although you did say you shoot suppressed. The brake will provide better recoil mitigation, but heaven knows the muzzle blast with a braked magnum may make a bit more recoil quite worthwhile.

MAIN POINT: a good brake (or suppressor) on an 18+ pound .300 PRC should make it tolerable to shoot. If you want to regularly, frequently, ACCURATELY shoot a mile or more, you just don't want anything lighter than a .30 cal 200+ grain bullet. If you have dollars to burn, look at the .338 Lapua Magnum class. If your dollars to burn arrive freight rate, look at the Cheytac variants.

Wrt to the Origin action: My son has just started shooting his Origin-based 6.5CM with a Trigger Tech Special trigger and Bartlein 5R barrel chambered by a buddy of mine. It's temporarily in one of my MDT ACC chassis, but as soon as son saw one of Rob's rifles in a Manners TCS stock, he ordered one of those. The thing is a HAMMER. Hint: call Southern Precision Rifles and other vendors who carry Zermatt actions and ask them when they expect to receive long-action magnum-bolt-face Origins. You may be able to get on a wait list, or learn when the next shipment is expected.

Wrt Defiance actions: I have a Deviant and like it fine... but it's a different action than the Ruckus. My point in bringing it up is to compare to the Zermatt Origin wrt accuracy. The Defiance Deviant is a much more expensive action, but the rifle built on it provides no better accuracy than my son's Zermatt build - both in identical chassis, identical barrels, identical Vortex gen-3 Razor scopes, and near-identical triggers. Similar results comparing my .223s - one in a Defiance Deviant, one in a Terminus Apollo, otherwise same builds. Same accuracy.
--------

Regarding the post about 300 WinMag - Run away. Do not even think about a 300 WinMag unless you want to immediately customize barrel and ammunition. O yeah sure it's easy to find factory ammo for the caliber - factory ammo based on a 60+ year old design, with relatively light fast bullets in a short sloppy (compared to 300PRC) chamber in a slow-twist barrel, cartridge case headspaced on a belt that was often a marketing gimmick, not a necessity* (in 1970, a "magnum" cartridge without a belt would not sell). Modifying a 300 WinMag to make it shoot as well as a 300PRC - which was designed from the outset as a 2000-yard round - arguably makes the round NOT a 300 WinMag anymore.
- - - - - - -
* Older magnums - think .300 H&H and its variants - DID need a belt because their shoulder angles were too shallow for use in headspacing.

 

[Rob01]

PX? Sorry newbie here

The for sale section on this forum at the bottom of the main forum page. Or search around for vendors selling actions.

 

[Schütze]

Yessir, thank you. Boy, it’s sure hard to find the action! Everywhere is like 12-18 weeks! But I want it NOW!!! Ha

They are excellent actions and their website states “ships in one week”

Coup De Grâce Bolt Action

www.americanrifle.com

 

[Rocketmandb]

Did you build your 300?

Yes:

- Deviant action
- 28" M24 contour, 1:9/8 left gain twist, Bartlein 400ModBB
- Heavily modified Manners PRS1 stock (built in a bracket for an Adjustable Bag Rider)
- Currently a TriggerTech Diamond trigger, but I'm not happy with it
- Terminator brake
- ZCO glass
Not a great pic since it's taken from a video, but you get the idea.

Video showing the last rebarrel:

 

[Moto41]

They are excellent actions and their website states “ships in one week”

Coup De Grâce Bolt Action

www.americanrifle.com

It looks like they only have 20MOA bases. Id like 0

 

[Rocketmandb]

It looks like they only have 20MOA bases. Id like 0

If you're shooting longer ranges, you want 20 minimum. This will do a couple things for you:

- You pick up additional elevation you can dial in, meaning your scope is useful out to longer range.
- You're looking through an area that's closer to the center of the glass for more of the elevation settings you'll be shooting at - which means a clearer view at the ranges that you need it.

On my 300, I have a 20 MOA base and a 20 MOA mount. On my 375, I have a 40 MOA base.

 

[Moto41]

If you're shooting longer ranges, you want 20 minimum. This will do a couple things for you:

- You pick up additional elevation you can dial in, meaning your scope is useful out to longer range.
- You're looking through an area that's closer to the center of the glass for more of the elevation settings you'll be shooting at - which means a clearer view at the ranges that you need it.

On my 300, I have a 20 MOA base and a 20 MOA mount. On my 375, I have a 40 MOA base.

How do you shoot it at 100 yards or closer distance?

 

[Rob01]

How do you shoot it at 100 yards or closer distance?

You use a scope with enough elevation. I have 40 moa bases on my 22s and I have 20 moa mount and 20 moa bases on some rifles. There is no issue as long as your scope has at least 80-100 moa but you will want more with where you are going. I’d be looking for at least 100moa or more.

 

[spife7980]

How do you shoot it at 100 yards or closer distance?

Your scope generally has half the elevation travel up and half down with a 0 cant base. It may not be exact but for broad strokes.

A canted based tilts that so that where the rifles relative 0 point is at in your scope is lower, thereby making more elevation travel available at the cost of down travel.

You dont utilize down travel once youve established your zero for long range shooting.

So for something thats intended to shoot long range, 20 moa should be the minimum I would want.

 

[Rocketmandb]

How do you shoot it at 100 yards or closer distance?

Essentially you dial down 40 MOA (or equivalent in mils) and zero the turrets there.

 

[Moto41]

Essentially you dial down 40 MOA (or equivalent in mils) and zero the turrets there.

Got it.
I use the Leupold Mark V.

 

[Moto41]

Your scope generally has half the elevation travel up and half down with a 0 cant base. It may not be exact but for broad strokes.

A canted based tilts that so that where the rifles relative 0 point is at in your scope is lower, thereby making more elevation travel available at the cost of down travel.

You dont utilize down travel once youve established your zero for long range shooting.

So for something thats intended to shoot long range, 20 moa should be the minimum I would want.

View attachment 8723418

Thank you sir! Very helpful.

 

[Moto41]

It looks like they only have 20MOA bases. Id like 0

Do I want the .535 bolt face for 300PRC?

 

[Rocketmandb]

And look at the bottom image in the one that @spife7980 posted. At 100 yards, you're looking through the top of the glass. Image quality degrades as you move away from the center, but you really don't care a whole lot about that at 100 yards - if you can't see well at 100, even through the edge of the glass, you got other problems.

As you dial for elevation, you get closer to looking through the middle of the glass until you hit center. With 40 MOA of cant, that would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1300-1400 yards with my 300 PRC. At that point it starts travel away from center again, and the optical quality starts to degrade.

Then, as I mentioned above, you have your max range. Again, using my 300 PRC as an example, I have 35 mil of vertical capability in the scope. If I had no cant, I would be able to get 17.5 mil up and 17.5 mil down worth of travel. Without the 40 MOA (11.6 mil) I have in the mount and base, that means that I'd be able to dial to about 1650 yards, give or take. Anything longer, and I'd have to hold over to get the range.

With the 40 MOA built in to the rail and mount, I'm able to dial 5.9mil down and 29.1 up. That equates to just over 2100 yards that I can dial to.

 

[Chickentoast]

You've gotta start reloading... Select a projectile, and run it through ballistics calculator at different speeds - and compare it to the ballistics of the rifles you're already shooting. That will give you an idea of where you want/need to be. Cartridge selection will be whatever gets you the speed you're after without hotrodding.

I was where you were, but shooting a 208 out of a 308 case at 2640 - same ballistics as a 6.5 creed 147. At ~1K yards, I'd be 10/10 without wind, and sometimes only 3/10 in gusts, on a 12" steel round. I added a 300 RUM sending 220 LRHT's at 3170. 1K was now super easy, 8 or 9/10 in gusty wind. The 220's @ 3170 were averaging about the same hit % at 1500 yds as the 208's @ 2640 @ 1K yds.