Long range build advice

[bohem]

Nope go 28” and the Proof Comp Contour or even straight as the weight will help cut the recoil for you and no reason not to go heavy for your use.

No need for flutes either as it will just cut weight. 9 twist would be my choice.

@bohem Josh owns PVA so maybe he will chime in but above would be what I would use.

I think you're on a good path here, my suggestion for 30's is to go 8 or even 7 twist (if you want to shoot really high BC solids the 7 twist isa must).

PVA makes the most efficient ELR bullets on the market. The 212 has a G7 approaching 0.5 and the 241 is 0.545 G7; numbers typically above what is seen in 37, 40 and 41 caliber ultra magnum cartridges and you can shoot them in a standard magnum 30 caliber setup. Somewhere floating around the internet is a video through Scott Satterlee's phone scope of me shooting targets at 1500, 1800 and 2100 yards with the 198's and my 308 out in Wyoming. It was still supersonic at 2100 yards.

I did basically what the OP is talking about a few years back with a 300 WSM and a 7 twist to shoot 241s and 212's. It's extremely capable at a mile and out to about 2500 yards. The only hiccup is the relatively light bullets (210-240 grain 30's instead of 400 grain 375's) don't make as big of a splash in dirt when you miss. Considering the cost of ownership as compared to a 37XC or similar sized case shooting 2x as much powder it's a lot more enjoyable and affordable to shoot.

There's a guy in Indiana doing really well with our bullets in ELR light shooting 7mm and 30 caliber rifles against 33's and winning against 37's and larger even in the bigger classes.

The summary of my advice having done this:

• Pick a caliber that has standard dies and brass available (300 PRC, 300 WM, 7RM, 7 PRC, 300 WSM, etc)
• Shoot a properly designed ELR bullet
• Run a barrel twist rate that will support the bullets for shots into transonic realm (8 or 7 in 30, 7 twist in 7)

You can use a standard action (instead of a $2000+ specialty for Cheytac cases or similar)
You can use a standard stock and muzzle brake and dies and, and, and.

The cost of shooting expensive bullets is minimal compared to how much money is saved using a standard caliber instead of a specialty ELR magnum that still shoots expensive bullets.

 

[Moto41]

Hornady is trash. Thin brass that cracks and completely inconsistent bullets. If you want the best - Berger.

I generally completely disregard people that speak well of Hornady as your experience is 100% the norm.

Berger Match Grade 300 PRC Ammo 215 Grain Hybrid Target Jacketed

Berger Ammunition provides the most demanding hunter, competitive shooter and Mil/LE warfighter a precision-built performance product that is unequaled...

www.midwayusa.com

I LOVE this Berger stuff. They have been a good ammo for me throughout all my guns.

 

[Moto41]

He's talking about a specific competitive division - but I wouldn't worry about that right now. Get a rifle you can be comfortable with, and it looks like you're going about it the right way.

If you go too heavy or too long, it just becomes a pain to lug around while you get your feet wet in the discipline.

I've got a 37XC that weighs in at well over 30lbs. I've spent a boatload of time and $$ getting the thing built up to shoot. It's cost me probably twice what my 300 PRC did, all in... and I've got probably a 10th of the round count through that vs the 300. I just don't enjoy shooting it all that much as everything is just a more difficult with it. From reloading, to equipment, to hauling it around. Heck, I even have to run it diagonally to get it into the Jeep.

The rifle you're putting together is fundamentally the same as what I've been shooting for years and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it continues to be my favorite.

You're putting together something really good for your first magnum. It won't be a pain, it won't weigh you down. Shoot it, learn on it, then make a more educated choice for your next barrel based on what your goals and circumstances are at the time. I'll lay odds that they won't bear much resemblance to what they are now. Nor should they.

Yessir….thank you. I’m not trying to win any metals. Just want to expand my knowledge and shooting abilities. I appreciate ya taking so much time to layout everything. Much appreciated sir.

 

[Wannashootit]

A friend of mine donates his once fired winmag brass to me. This was hornady 2x reloaded with berger 155.5's at 3300fps. Not even really a hot load. No, there was no excessive headspace. I bump the shoulder .002" at the max.
View attachment 8723689

Op, I think you're on the right track with the 300PRC. As much as it hurts me to say that, being a diehard winmag fan. As others have mentioned, you have to put in some extra effort with the chambering and building your ammo to really make it shine. The PRC was built for it right out of the gate.

With what you're putting together, you'll probably come in around the 18-20 pound mark or more if you want to put weights on your chassis.

My winmag comes in around 17lbs now I think. I run it suppressed with a brake full time, and it's hard for me not to shoot 50 rounds every time I take it out. It's probably my favorite rifle to shoot, I just don't get a chance to stretch it's legs as often as I'd like.


Poor picture of the rifle but here it is. Trued 700 with a heavy palma contour 9 twist bartlein, jewell trigger, in a krg bravo. Loaned it to a family member for a nilgai hunt here in TX. Can't remember where. The 215 hybrid left the muzzle at 2920 and dumped him at 585 yards.

View attachment 8723720

WTF is that on the muzzle end?

 

[Varminterror]

Post #5 yesterday:

Moto41

Yessir. I guess I use the term “PRS” and it doesn’t apply. Let me re-phase: I want to be able to stretch out there and extend my abilities and hit targets.

He’s not talking about PRS matches.

......

As I stated, his build list looks like a PRS rifle build list, just in a long action magnum cartridge... So if he's not talking about PRS matches and doesn't respectively need a PRS rifle, his build list shouldn't look quite so much like a PRS rifle...

We can shoot long distance and ELR with a lot of different stuff, but this thread has been an absolute dumpster fire ping-ponging around between LR and ELR, PRC's, 300 NM.... and it's still looking like a PRS type build, just in an undersized ELR Light div cartridge...

Of course, yes, we do need to contextualize expectations - when @Moto41 says they "want to stretch out there and extend [his] abilities," that's pretty vague. A guy can extend abilities by building a 22LR with 100 mils of mount/ring angle and shoot at 500-1k. A guy can "stretch out there" by shooting a 6.5 creed at a mile. Or none of that might be "stretching out there" in his mind, and he might want to be banging a 40lb 375 Cheytac out to 2 1/2 miles. Naturally, we're talking about very different price points for these builds, but talking about a PRS chassis and a 7 PRC just doesn't really strike me as really extending beyond what I can successfully accomplish with even a lowly 6.5 creed - unless something needs to bleed upon arrival. If you're going big and trying to reach ELR distances, 300 PRC would be the smallest cartridge I'd play with, and I wouldn't be in an MDT Elite chassis.

Are you wanting a repeater? Single shot? A 1 mile capable magnum, or 2 mile capable super magnum? Wanting something which is designed to deliver the highest hit percentage opportunity for the distances you're considering, or wanting something that looks like a more conventional tactical rifle which won't perform as well as the purpose built rifle?

 

[Varminterror]

Curious what you would do different for an ELR gun?

My ELR Heavy rifle is a 36" Bartlein with a 1.7" shank on a 1.75" Bat Model L in a Manners LRT-2 chambered in 375 Cheytac. It's 38lbs all in (Ko2M legal). I'm finishing up my ELR Light Rifle on a Bat CT action and 1.4" shank 30" Bartlein chambered for 300 Norma in a Manners F-Class. My ELR Tac Div rifle is a 30" Bartlein with a standard 1.20 shank to make weight, also in 300 Norma on a Defiance Ruckus repeater in a Manners T4A. These aren't built for 1k, they're built for 1 mile and 2 miles. If I'm just playing inside of a mile, the difference between a simple 6.5 creed and a 7 PRC is barely more than just powder and recoil, so if you're going big and trying to reach out there, go big and reach out there.

 

[Bacarrat]

Personally, I would get up to speed on reloading. While some of the factory ammo is very good. If you are wanting consistent hits out at that distance, you will have to reload. Just had this scenario happen a couple of months ago with a couple of friends. Have the guns, and the range, but they shot good factory ammo. Couldn't hit a thing with factory ammo. Tried a friends ammo that was tuned to his gun and was making hits at a mile.

 

[XP1K]

WTF is that on the muzzle end?

An omega 300 with a brake.

 

[Varminterror]

If you were shooting 1500-1mile, what would you run? At some point, I would hand load….yes. But off shelf ammo to start

Much easier to start from this position with a 338 Lapua. That can be rebarreled to 300 Norma any time thereafter, but will be easier to feed out of the gate as a 338 Lapua.

 

[Taylorbok]

......

As I stated, his build list looks like a PRS rifle build list, just in a long action magnum cartridge... So if he's not talking about PRS matches and doesn't respectively need a PRS rifle, his build list shouldn't look quite so much like a PRS rifle...

We can shoot long distance and ELR with a lot of different stuff, but this thread has been an absolute dumpster fire ping-ponging around between LR and ELR, PRC's, 300 NM.... and it's still looking like a PRS type build, just in an undersized ELR Light div cartridge...

Of course, yes, we do need to contextualize expectations - when @Moto41 says they "want to stretch out there and extend [his] abilities," that's pretty vague. A guy can extend abilities by building a 22LR with 100 mils of mount/ring angle and shoot at 500-1k. A guy can "stretch out there" by shooting a 6.5 creed at a mile. Or none of that might be "stretching out there" in his mind, and he might want to be banging a 40lb 375 Cheytac out to 2 1/2 miles. Naturally, we're talking about very different price points for these builds, but talking about a PRS chassis and a 7 PRC just doesn't really strike me as really extending beyond what I can successfully accomplish with even a lowly 6.5 creed - unless something needs to bleed upon arrival. If you're going big and trying to reach ELR distances, 300 PRC would be the smallest cartridge I'd play with, and I wouldn't be in an MDT Elite chassis.

Are you wanting a repeater? Single shot? A 1 mile capable magnum, or 2 mile capable super magnum? Wanting something which is designed to deliver the highest hit percentage opportunity for the distances you're considering, or wanting something that looks like a more conventional tactical rifle which won't perform as well as the purpose built rifle?

Basically right now he want's to shoot out to 1500, doesn't know where that will take him yet.
He's got a good build started for what he wants.
It's impossible to build a rifle to a specific need when he doesn't know what that is yet.

 

[Taylorbok]

Much easier to start from this position with a 338 Lapua. That can be rebarreled to 300 Norma any time thereafter, but will be easier to feed out of the gate as a 338 Lapua.

The only thing a 338 Lap provides over a 300 PRC is better splash which may or may not be valuable depending on his ground conditions.
It's usually pretty easy to spot a 30 Cal at a mile even in suboptimal conditions. The Lap requires more expensive and harder to find components.
The ballistics will be about equal.

Can always make changes later as he learns and finds out what he wants. He's chosen good parts that if he decides to sell down the road will recoup a good percent of his money.

IMO lots of the intricacies have to be learned along the way, no matter how much research you do you can't know the answer to questions that you have to experience with the results.

 

[Rocketmandb]

The only thing a 338 Lap provides over a 300 PRC is better splash which may or may not be valuable depending on his ground conditions.
It's usually pretty easy to spot a 30 Cal at a mile even in suboptimal conditions. The Lap requires more expensive and harder to find components.
The ballistics will be about equal.

Not to mention that learning recoil management on a magnum is much easier on a 300 PRC than a 338 LM. I would not recommend a 338 as someone's first magnum-class rifle.

 

[Rob01]

Yup seen it too many times someone says “I’m getting into long range shooting. I’m buying a 338!” And then the rifle gets shot once for a box of rounds due to recoil and they learn how expensive it is to shoot a big magnum. lol Magnum rifles should never be a first or even second foray into long range.

 

[Bacarrat]

I don't mind shooting magnums, and I even think the 338LM is a bit abusive when it comes to recoil. I had to shoot out 25 rounds last weekend of my 300gr 338LM loads and I was really done shooting about 10 rounds into it. With the advancement in the 30 cal projectiles, and cartridges, it's not hard for them to outperform the 338LM.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I don't mind shooting magnums, and I even think the 338LM is a bit abusive when it comes to recoil.

When I'm shooting through virgin brass for my 375, I tend to ask friends to come to the range and run through a number of rounds.

One trip I was going up to a private range and a friend was coming along. So, I ended up loading 30 rounds for the 375 for load dev, and 30 virgin, thinking that my friend would go through the 30 virgin rounds. The night before, he texts me and says he has Covid. Well... shit...

- I go by myself.
- I run the 30 for load dev
- My shoulder is going
- My cheek is feeling it
- I run the first 10 virgin rounds
- My shoulder hurts
- My cheek hurts
- By the last 10, I'm aiming at the target, pulling my head away from the cheek riser and scope, and wincing as my shoulder takes the hit

EDIT: As an aside, I can shoot my 300 PRC all day, and while my shoulder may feel it afterward, it never "hurts"

 

[Taylorbok]

When I'm shooting through virgin brass for my 375, I tend to ask friends to come to the range and run through a number of rounds.

One trip I was going up to a private range and a friend was coming along. So, I ended up loading 30 rounds for the 375 for load dev, and 30 virgin, thinking that my friend would go through the 30 virgin rounds. The night before, he texts me and says he has Covid. Well... shit...

- I go by myself.
- I run the 30 for load dev
- My shoulder is going
- My cheek is feeling it
- I run the first 10 virgin rounds
- My shoulder hurts
- My cheek hurts
- By the last 10, I'm aiming at the target, pulling my head away from the cheek riser and scope, and wincing as my shoulder takes the hit

EDIT: As an aside, I can shoot my 300 PRC all day, and while my shoulder may feel it afterward, it never "hurts"

Everyone is different.
I needed to form brass for my 375 so I took it to shoot prairie dogs, shot 100 rounds in no time and wished I had more. LOL that was fun.