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M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

M

Matthias King

Private
Minuteman
Jul 8, 2012
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0
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Hello all. I'm new on this forum.

I'm writing a work of fiction, and I wanted to get some opinions.

In the story I'm writing, one of the characters becomes a sniper, and I've had it in mind for the character to use some configuration of a 7.62 AR15. I've been thinking about the M110 for a while, but a while back I started considering the possibility of the HK417. Then recently I also started thinking about one of the LaRue OBR's.

The character would be using it within a 7.62 AR15's typical range and mostly in urban areas, so the dust and dirt issue between the HK's and the normal AR is not too much of an issue, but by all means, take that into consideration if you think it's still important in this case.

I'm aiming for as much authenticity as I can, so I wanted some honest opinions.

Thanks.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

In American Sniper Kyle talks about how some of the time he used the Knights Armament rifle,what he likes and doesn't like about it. You can check that out for reference
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

You can also throw in the GAP 10 from GA precision, the Colt 901, The KAC EMC,
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Is this character in the employ of an agency/government? Could make a significant difference to what's availible.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Well, if you want it realistic...AR 308 wise I think that the US fields the KAC SR25 rifles exclusively while the British use the LMT and various Euro countries are using the HK417.

There are also scoped m14 rifles of various flavors in use by the US and a couple other countries. I think I've seen pics of british soldiers with them but I am not 100% on that.

Majority of snipers still use bolt guns though or at least it seems that way.

At the end of the day it is your story so picking whatever rifle fits with the character you are creating is best.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Thanks for all the replies so far.

The character is not in the employ of the government to begin with, but eventually is. The rifle she chooses is chosen before her government work, and is based on the recommendation of a former Delta operator, which is why I couldn't decide between the M110 and the HK417, as I understand most Delta and DEVGRU operators have switched from the M4 to the HK416, so I could see the HK417 possibly being recommended by him.

I'd love to hear any other points you guys can think of.

Thanks again.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

If your character is anything like the AD or retired guys on this website....I doubt he'll be recommending the M110.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

On the m110s in particular I don't think I've heard a lot of positive feedback from guys who have used them in theater.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Because the M110 is overpriced mediocre tool that we have to use, not choose to use. If purchasing a semi 7.62. The 110 wouldn't even be considered.

But that is because I have seen it fuck up in firefights and engagements tons of times. Nothing better than the words "send it" being said, then having a miss fire on a shit finger. If you can keep that thing immaculately clean, its a good rifle, but take it to Iraq or Afghanistan and it blows.

I'm sure the KAC fan boys will chime in soon claiming I don't know what I'm talking about and it's the greatest rifle ever.

Ask someone who has carried one in the field, not to the range, and you will get the same answer I gave.

I'm not a CAG or DEV guy, just someone with enough experience with said rifle to know there are better.

Also want to say that the M110 has given us another tool in the bag and that I am grateful for having that option. It has hurt a lot of bad guys feelings and will continue to do so for a while, just wouldn't ever purchase or recommend someone to buy one.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Why not just go LRB M25 in a Sage EBR stock. Super accurate and no reliability issues.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

I just don't see the HK ever being the recommended weapon given the choice of choosing any AR for the tool box. GAP10, OBR, MWS, or JPs LRP come to mind if given an option.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

I'd say OBR- if for nothing else than larue has been well represented at the international sniper comp at Benning (that is until they required service rifles).

M110's are not highly popular; they get the job done if treated right, but as already stated, they don't like adverse conditions (high rate of continued fire, high round counts, running really dirty). HK417 isn't very popular, and if it's recommended by a delta guy, you have to consider the context of the person's knowledge.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1647927#Post1647927

Check out the rifles on ths thread, you can see what you like and visualise what you are writing about. There is very little junk or gimmicky stuff on this site that I have seen. As stated above, you're stuck with a M110 if you want "standard U.S. mil-spec" but if you threw small company's rifle in the story you'd probably attract some real rifle nuts to your work as well. I know nothing about copywrite laws or what you have to do to put someone/thing in a book but I can't imagine GAP, LaRue, JP Rifles etc... not wanting to have their name out there to another demographic besides dyed-in-the-wool rifle freaks.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

In the Gubments eyes:

KAC M110: "We've done numerous transaction with these fine gentlement...we better stick to what we know from these guys over the years."

HK 417: "Meh...too expensive...we'll think about it. Let's see what other nations think."

LaRue OBR: "Hmm...American made, by Americans. But we haven't done business with these guys before. I'll let some of the "special" kids play with it"





By "special kids", I'm not talking about the mentally challened.






















IM DRUNK!
laugh.gif
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krazny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say EMC/ECC, LMT MWS, or OBR. In that order. </div></div>

Why?
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

M110 ran fine in Iraq. Bore snake it and run it wet. It is a dirty gun, and doesn't run like a Ferrari, inspect your mags and rounds and she'll treat you right. Also I never cleaned it in sniper school, just ran it wet and in the 5 weeks, not one jam( including stalks ect..)

HK, dunno never shot it.

OBR, now where talking. This is what I run, my team runs. Same principle, bore snake it once in awhile and run it wet. Drop the CTR stock with RISR and put a damn PRS stock on it. Run some good glass, work in Holds and send it.
 
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Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krazny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say EMC/ECC, LMT MWS, or OBR. In that order. </div></div>

Why? </div></div>

The KAC carbines, which have a number of upgrades that KAC is prohibited from applying to the M110 without having to rebid the contract, have a reputation for being accurate, lightweight, and reliable. A lot of folks condemn them because of the M110's issues, but thats not exactly a fair train of thought. (It'd be a bit like saying the 2012 GT500 is crap because the 2002 V-6 Mustang GT sucked.) These same people often speak glowingly about the LMT MWS, which appears to use a number of KAC designed, and probably manufactured components. Certainly it borrows heavily from the SR series.

The reason I listed them in that order is as follows:

The LMT and KAC are very similar. However, I put the SR ahead of the MWS due to its lighter weight, (8.25 lbs vs 10) better balance, and because it possesses a lower felt recoil impulse. By the time one configures an MWS to the same configuration as the SR25, (Flip up iron sights, 2 stage trigger) the price difference is under $250. The OBR is a fine rifle, but earns a third place for several reasons, notably the 20 MOA top rail necessitates the use of a RISR or a PRS, its over a pound heavier, its not as convenient/easy to sling as the SR/MWS,and with the recent price increase, the SR25's can be had for less than a similarly equipped OBR. And without the 7 month wait. . . .

And yes, I've owned both the OBR and an SR25EC. I wrote a review and a comparison of the two, which is somewhere in this forum.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

The M110 or OBR are probably equivalent systems. The 417 looks more like a battle rifle, not designed for precision rifle purposes, but I've never fired one so I couldn't say it isn't suited.

The M110 is a nice rifle. Beats the hell out of a DPMS SASS rifle, I know that much for sure, so it didn't win the solicitation for nothing.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

I would go with the HK PSG-1 for work of fiction, non federaly employed character. It has cool factor all over it and not another AR.
hope this helps.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with the HK PSG-1 for work of fiction, non federaly employed character. It has cool factor all over it and not another AR.
hope this helps. </div></div>

Agreed. The psg-1 is a legend!
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

No one who had to carry and actually use a PSG1 would. Sorry too heavy and other than uber expensive nothing special. MSG90 is a good bet though as its lighter and gets job done.

On the gasguns it breaks down like this:
1. Generally Military Sniper gets what they are issued.M110
2. Delta/Seals get what they want to a degree. M110/MK11/OBR
3. Non sponsored operators get what they can get and work around it.

You will be fine in book using any of the mentioned rifles but I would stay with either M110 or LBR as they are easier to get and more likely for an operator of US to get.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Who is actually going to read this book? I don't think your target audience is going to appreciate the choice of quality AR10s.

A fictionally story of a female sniper who is friends with a Delta guy who shoots a ____ and is eventually hired by .gov for something later on?

Yah, not going to be popular with the same crowd that can identify the differences between AR BCG designs.



So don't pick some fancy small semi-custom brand that your readers have never heard of.

"M16", "M4", "HK"; those are fairly well known gun-related sounds.

Ones like "Larue Tactical Optimized Battle Rifle", "Lewis Machine & Tool Modular Weapon System", "Knights Armament M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System" are not fiction reader friendy sounds.

Pick whatever, and in the story/plotline you can have a secondary character like that "former Delta operator" explain why the QXM-9000VDT is the super best sniper gun ever.
 
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Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

The H&K 417 is a battle rifle, in german army trials for a new dmr it failed in accuracy tests.
Thus H&K developed the G28 based on the H&K 417's civilian version.
I guess you shouldn't consider the G28 though, a 16 lbs, 16.5" barreled rifle may be not the first choice as a sniper rifle.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Is it true that the G28 upper is made out of steel? Why would they do that?
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Your opener said it all.....YOU ARE WRITING FICTION....why does it matter? Really?




Its a FREE society, do what happens in the movies now days...contact all the manufacturers and see whom offers you money to promote their product in your next best seller and promote that product.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

@R.O.U.S.
Yes it is made out of steel.
Why? The connection of upper and barrel is much more rigid, the whole weapon could survive much more of a beating, than any competitor and stay accurate.
Well, question is who uses his marksman rifle as a sledgehammer substitute?

The german problem is that bunch of bureaucrats without combat experience is involved the process of purchasing small arms.
They just don't understand the problems because they never got to live through an infantry man's life.
Back in their day the Bundeswehr operated exclusivly inside Germany.
When you're fighting on your own soil with an APC nearby wheight is a tad less of a concern.

ps: Orthography
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krazny</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Krazny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say EMC/ECC, LMT MWS, or OBR. In that order. </div></div>

Why? </div></div>

The KAC carbines, which have a number of upgrades that KAC is prohibited from applying to the M110 without having to rebid the contract, have a reputation for being accurate, lightweight, and reliable. A lot of folks condemn them because of the M110's issues, but thats not exactly a fair train of thought. (It'd be a bit like saying the 2012 GT500 is crap because the 2002 V-6 Mustang GT sucked.) These same people often speak glowingly about the LMT MWS, which appears to use a number of KAC designed, and probably manufactured components. Certainly it borrows heavily from the SR series.

The reason I listed them in that order is as follows:

The LMT and KAC are very similar. However, I put the SR ahead of the MWS due to its lighter weight, (8.25 lbs vs 10) better balance, and because it possesses a lower felt recoil impulse. By the time one configures an MWS to the same configuration as the SR25, (Flip up iron sights, 2 stage trigger) the price difference is under $250. The OBR is a fine rifle, but earns a third place for several reasons, notably the 20 MOA top rail necessitates the use of a RISR or a PRS, its over a pound heavier, its not as convenient/easy to sling as the SR/MWS,and with the recent price increase, the SR25's can be had for less than a similarly equipped OBR. And without the 7 month wait. . . .

And yes, I've owned both the OBR and an SR25EC. I wrote a review and a comparison of the two, which is somewhere in this forum. </div></div>

Take a look...

DSC_0185.jpg


DSC_0183.jpg
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

I probably come across as a madman for saying it, but I think the evidence is there. . .

The uppers differ obviously, but take a look at the location, shape, and dimensions of major and minor features on the lowers. Note the shape and height of the minor step by the hammmer pin by the mag release button, as well as the blending around the rear takedown pin hole.

The takedown pins are very similar in appearance, and even the ambi selectors are bang on. (The KAC just has a notch machined out for right handed folks. Compare the checkering on the front portion, and the machine screw used to retain the right side to the selector.) The biggest giveaway is the Bolt catch, and the left side mag release however. . . . .
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Just a few notes:

An AR15 is not, nor will it ever be, a 7.62x51 rifle. The AR10 was originally designed for the 7.62x51 (and actually pre-dates the AR15 by about 10 years)

The AR15 is specifically designed around an intermediate cartridge. The 5.56x45, specifically, but has been chambered in other cartridges.

Now, your operator COULD use a MK12 type of AR15, firing the MK 262 Mod 1 77 grain round. It is both deadly and accurate.

The M110 can be effective, but it is temperamental, most folks don't know that. They only know what they see on TV or the movies.

So a "custom built" AR10 would be a decent answer. You wouldn't need to be overly specific.

If you wanted to be different, and since the protagonist appears to be a female, the choice could be a match grade AR15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel. This would give the long range, accurate lethality required, in a smaller, lighter package.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Thanks for all the opinions guys. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm surprised to hear that the HK417 isn't accurate enough. I thought I read that the DEVGRU guys used that gun when they took out the 3 out of 4 Somali pirates in the hostage situation. That's pretty precise. I could be wrong. Did they use a different rifle? Correct me if I'm wrong.

@ i_rep: I'm aware it's a work of fiction. Being fiction doesn't mean you don't have to try. I want authentity where I can. It matters to me.

Once again, thanks for the opinions. I've been thrown a lot of info and I'm more torn now than before though. I have some thinking to do. Thanks again.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Good luck with the book, but to be honest with you nobody (except shooters) are going to know the difference between any of the rifles you mentioned.

 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matthias King</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the opinions guys. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm surprised to hear that the HK417 isn't accurate enough. I thought I read that the DEVGRU guys used that gun when they took out the 3 out of 4 Somali pirates in the hostage situation. That's pretty precise. I could be wrong. Did they use a different rifle? Correct me if I'm wrong.

@ i_rep: I'm aware it's a work of fiction. Being fiction doesn't mean you don't have to try. I want authentity where I can. It matters to me.

Once again, thanks for the opinions. I've been thrown a lot of info and I'm more torn now than before though. I have some thinking to do. Thanks again. </div></div>


Why would they use 7.62 rifles on a ship? The range is guaranteed to be short, they probably were using 10.5" MK18's in 5.56mm.

If you read 417 in a work of fiction that would explain using a .308 battle rifle in a hostage rescue on a ship.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

I was not all that thrilled with my Larue, but they probably have gotten better.

Here is my synopsis:

OBR - easy for civilians go get. And don't forget Noveske.
HK417 - for Eurofags.
M110 - nobody likes it. Probably not as bad as the FAMAS.
LMT MWS - for Limeys.
FN SCAR - do they still make those?
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Why would they use 7.62 rifles on a ship?
</div></div>

To shoot stuff approaching the ship? And maybe they would have a girl do it.

somali_pirates.jpg
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matthias King</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the opinions guys. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm surprised to hear that the HK417 isn't accurate enough. I thought I read that the DEVGRU guys used that gun when they took out the 3 out of 4 Somali pirates in the hostage situation. That's pretty precise. I could be wrong. Did they use a different rifle? Correct me if I'm wrong.

@ i_rep: I'm aware it's a work of fiction. Being fiction doesn't mean you don't have to try. I want authentity where I can. It matters to me.

Once again, thanks for the opinions. I've been thrown a lot of info and I'm more torn now than before though. I have some thinking to do. Thanks again. </div></div>


Why would they use 7.62 rifles on a ship? The range is guaranteed to be short, they probably were using 10.5" MK18's in 5.56mm.

If you read 417 in a work of fiction that would explain using a .308 battle rifle in a hostage rescue on a ship.

</div></div>
No, I wasn't talking about a work of fiction there, I was talking about the hostage situation that happened a few years back where Somali pirates took a ship hostage and DEVGRU went in and took them out in a lifeboat with three precision shots. I was pretty sure I read that the rifle they used to do that was the HK417. I could have been mistaken though.

Anyway, thanks again for the help guys.
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

for the pirate thing, IIRC they pulled the lifeboat to within 100 yds or so, then shot them all with m110s, right
 
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

nobody is going to know about these rifles

I think the m1 7.62 would be more well known to your readers and you can make it a super fancy super match
or custom type thing
 
Yeah they successfully replaced the M110 with the HK417 probably as a joke, it's a sexist response to this post [Edit: the Original Post] but pans out because everybody's low key tiny and weak now
 
LMT, not even close with the rest

LMT also has highest user scores among all large frame rifles used in theater

Given your book is American, keep it real and use the M110. Honestly not even sure how LaRue is in the discussion here. Agree with poster that said most people won't know these rifles so use 7.62 sniper system or something akin
 
fdkay said:
Re: M110 vs HK417 vs LaRue OBR

Just a few notes:

An AR15 is not, nor will it ever be, a 7.62x51 rifle. The AR10 was originally designed for the 7.62x51 (and actually pre-dates the AR15 by about 10 years)

The AR15 is specifically designed around an intermediate cartridge. The 5.56x45, specifically, but has been chambered in other cartridges.

Now, your operator COULD use a MK12 type of AR15, firing the MK 262 Mod 1 77 grain round. It is both deadly and accurate.

The M110 can be effective, but it is temperamental, most folks don't know that. They only know what they see on TV or the movies.

So a "custom built" AR10 would be a decent answer. You wouldn't need to be overly specific.

If you wanted to be different, and since the protagonist appears to be a female, the choice could be a match grade AR15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel. This would give the long range, accurate lethality required, in a smaller, lighter package.
Click to expand...
good post
 
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