Hey everyone, I was wondering if any of yall knew the laws on muzzle-breaks? I want to build one for a mosin nagant 91/30. Anybody have any ideas/tips or designs to help me out? Im not doing it so much for the physicla effect mostly just for another custom project. Thanks all!
Gunsmithing Muzzle break - building + law??
- Thread starter DlAM0ND
- Start date
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
During the 1994 - 2004 Assault Weapons Ban, I asked the BATF the legal difference between the shape of a muzzle brake [legal] and the shape of a flash hider [illegal]. They wrote back that they were to busy to answer questions like that. I wrote my senator, Slade Gordon, and he prompted the BATF, who THEN wrote me a letter saying that ~ flash hiders stop flash and muzzle brakes stop recoil~.
I have since learned, from Reading Small Arms Review, that congress passes vague laws, and the BATF issues ruling as to their meaning. Then, sometimes, the BATF ruling gets overturned in court.
And your friends will ask you, "Yeah, but do you wanna be a test case?"
I have since learned that the BATF refuses to define the threshold of requiring an FFL, in terms of how many firearms can be sold privately.
We are all test cases.
During the 1994 - 2004 Assault Weapons Ban, I asked the BATF the legal difference between the shape of a muzzle brake [legal] and the shape of a flash hider [illegal]. They wrote back that they were to busy to answer questions like that. I wrote my senator, Slade Gordon, and he prompted the BATF, who THEN wrote me a letter saying that ~ flash hiders stop flash and muzzle brakes stop recoil~.
I have since learned, from Reading Small Arms Review, that congress passes vague laws, and the BATF issues ruling as to their meaning. Then, sometimes, the BATF ruling gets overturned in court.
And your friends will ask you, "Yeah, but do you wanna be a test case?"
I have since learned that the BATF refuses to define the threshold of requiring an FFL, in terms of how many firearms can be sold privately.
We are all test cases.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
Agencies of the federal govt which should be de-funded and disbanded:
BATFE (have FBI enforce gun laws)
IRS (have states collect taxes and submit to fed govt)
EPA
OSHA
Dept of Labor
DHS (greatest danger to our freedom, incompetently run)
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Health and Human Services
HUD
etc.
However, few misbehave as badly at BATFE and DHS.
Agencies of the federal govt which should be de-funded and disbanded:
BATFE (have FBI enforce gun laws)
IRS (have states collect taxes and submit to fed govt)
EPA
OSHA
Dept of Labor
DHS (greatest danger to our freedom, incompetently run)
Dept of Agriculture
Dept of Health and Human Services
HUD
etc.
However, few misbehave as badly at BATFE and DHS.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws.
The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
On the art of building one the trick is to make the rifle shoot like it is a .22short LOL The ports should direct the gun away from you and down. But also remember the gun shoots with some sort of right or left torque. So you have to calculate the volume and length of the gasses dispelled by the gun.I would look at Brownells and some of there high caliber weapon compensators.
On the art of building one the trick is to make the rifle shoot like it is a .22short LOL The ports should direct the gun away from you and down. But also remember the gun shoots with some sort of right or left torque. So you have to calculate the volume and length of the gasses dispelled by the gun.I would look at Brownells and some of there high caliber weapon compensators.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws. </div></div>
1 db?
really?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws. </div></div>
1 db?
really?
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
Yep, ANY kind of suppression makes it a suppressor. Typical gov't slugs, they do it 'cause they can.
Yep, ANY kind of suppression makes it a suppressor. Typical gov't slugs, they do it 'cause they can.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
the GSG-5 mp5 clone looking 22 had a fake can. turns out it reduced sound by 2 or 3 db i believe it was. pulled and banned for that reason if what i read was correct
the GSG-5 mp5 clone looking 22 had a fake can. turns out it reduced sound by 2 or 3 db i believe it was. pulled and banned for that reason if what i read was correct
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JeffP40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yep, ANY kind of suppression makes it a suppressor. Typical gov't slugs, they do it 'cause they can. </div></div>
I have no doubt you can hear a 1 db change through headphones.
What I question is that some test set up is going to measure a 1 db change in gun noise that will stand up in court.
Just where someone else's body is, standing around in the lab, absorbing sound, drastically affects acoustic measurements.
Until you have had to mathematically prove what the accuracy of your measurement is traceable to the NIST, you will not know what a hassle it is.
I have made acoustic measurements at the University of Washington, Boeing Commercial Airplane Company, and Pacific Electro Dynamics.
I have calculated and validated and traced to NIST the accuracy of processes that measure much easier things like phase, resistance, and capacitance. This is a giant hassle. This pops up in the testing on receiving inspection of parts that a human life depends on, like a defibrillator. The FDA simply says ~ you have not proven the accuracy of your process~, and then 10,000 engineering hours get used up fixing that.
I can only imagine trying to prove the accuracy of a gun shot noise was withing 1 db.
I am sure guys in submarine design do it, but it in going to be hard.
1 db change is a ratio of 1.1220184543019633 to 1 in sound pressure level (SPL).
I would much rather take on the task of proving there was a 20 db change which is 10 to 1.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JeffP40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yep, ANY kind of suppression makes it a suppressor. Typical gov't slugs, they do it 'cause they can. </div></div>
I have no doubt you can hear a 1 db change through headphones.
What I question is that some test set up is going to measure a 1 db change in gun noise that will stand up in court.
Just where someone else's body is, standing around in the lab, absorbing sound, drastically affects acoustic measurements.
Until you have had to mathematically prove what the accuracy of your measurement is traceable to the NIST, you will not know what a hassle it is.
I have made acoustic measurements at the University of Washington, Boeing Commercial Airplane Company, and Pacific Electro Dynamics.
I have calculated and validated and traced to NIST the accuracy of processes that measure much easier things like phase, resistance, and capacitance. This is a giant hassle. This pops up in the testing on receiving inspection of parts that a human life depends on, like a defibrillator. The FDA simply says ~ you have not proven the accuracy of your process~, and then 10,000 engineering hours get used up fixing that.
I can only imagine trying to prove the accuracy of a gun shot noise was withing 1 db.
I am sure guys in submarine design do it, but it in going to be hard.
1 db change is a ratio of 1.1220184543019633 to 1 in sound pressure level (SPL).
I would much rather take on the task of proving there was a 20 db change which is 10 to 1.
Re: Muzzle break - building + law??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws. </div></div>
Uh, Mr. I gots to know, where did you come up with that bit of nonsense, er, sorry information?
Yes, I would like to see chapter, paragraph and verse.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MECH1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The legality is the Break of flash hider CANNOT reduce the sound by 1 decibel or if the barrel is under 16" it must be permanently attached by welding or pinning. NO RED locktite or rock set. Now some states still observe the ban on flash hiders so read your local laws. </div></div>
Uh, Mr. I gots to know, where did you come up with that bit of nonsense, er, sorry information?
Yes, I would like to see chapter, paragraph and verse.
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