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My new LMT MWS

M

m1ajunkie

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Minuteman
Feb 22, 2010
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Boise, ID
I just got home with my newest rifle. I have been wanting a newer .308 rifle for a while and about three months ago decided on an FN SCAR H. However, as of late I decided to go with the LMT MWS. A couple reasons: Cheaper and more readily available mags, better support for new barrels and calibers, and parts commonality with most ar parts. Overall, the build quality is awesome, fit is very nice, and finish is great. The trigger is also very nice, it looks very much like a gieselle ssa I have in my colt 6920 and feels just as good. The charging handle latch is great as well, I have never had an ar with any sort of tactical charging handle and I must say it is a very nice touch.

Here it is:
100_1618.jpg


Bone stock, it is my heaviest rifle. I have never really felt the need for a VFG, but with the weight of this rifle and how I plan to run it I feel a VFG would be beneficial. I am planning to use this as a "general purpose' rifle for use out to about 650 yards when I get the chance. I am planning on going with a 1-4x optic or even a 2-8x just depending on what I feel when I shoot it.

Next to my colt 6920:
100_1617.jpg


The colt has been my go to rifle for a couple of years now and probably still will be, but the compactness of the lmt is great.

The most amazing thing to me was how much bigger the .308 internals were compared to the .223 bcg:

100_1616.jpg


Its looking like friday will be the range day where I get her sighted in and after that I will post more pics and a write up.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kchu02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much are those LMT MWS going for now?

</div></div>


Yes I'd like to know this also.

Nice rifle!
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kchu02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much are those LMT MWS going for now?

</div></div>


Yes I'd like to know this also.

Nice rifle! </div></div>

Thanks, so far all the ones I have seen for sale on line seem to be running at about $2500. I found this one on gunbroker a couple weeks ago for alittle over $2300 and jumped on it.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

So will you now become MWSjunkie? It's a great looking rig, man. Give a range report when you get the chance. If I had the cash, the LMT would be my choice as well.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1ajunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kchu02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much are those LMT MWS going for now?

</div></div>


Yes I'd like to know this also.

Nice rifle! </div></div>

Thanks, so far all the ones I have seen for sale on line seem to be running at about $2500. I found this one on gunbroker a couple weeks ago for alittle over $2300 and jumped on it.</div></div>

I've been searching online, what stores were you looking at. non at on GB
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LM308MWSE

There were two ready to ship at this link as of this morning, and I have been on a pre-order list since may at a local pawn shop since may. I guess I will have to call an cancel my spot now.

As far as changing to mwsjunkie, I'll have to see how it shoots first. From what I've been reading I have begun to see the benefits of the ar .308 over the m14, but I will always have a place for an m14.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

I picked one up on Sunday and I have to agree with you on the trigger. It seemed to be very well priced and I snuck a dry fire in on the table and it sealed the deal for me. It feels just like the Giessele that I put in my MRP. I hope to get to shoot it this weekend.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Just one thing.

My barrel needed to be broken in before it shot well. After 200 rounds it started getting better groups. I just ordered a Geissel Match trigger for it last night. Nothing wrong with the trigger for field work but for printing paper its a tad heavy.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Didn't I tell you on that other forum to stop posting and start shooting. Now get at it!
smile.gif
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocLane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't I tell you on that other forum to stop posting and start shooting. Now get at it!
smile.gif


</div></div>

You did, I am just very excited to finally get my hands on one.
grin.gif


I am leaning toward the trijicon accumpoint 1-4x at the moment, but I'm not sure if that will offer enough magnification for what I plan to use it for. I like the smaller size of the 1-4x optics, but also like something with a little higher magnification. The only problem is more mag comes with a bigger and heavier scope. For the time being, I plan to run irons and come to an optics decision later this fall.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

You've just got to figure out what role that rifle will play because that will dictate your optic. I love the trijicon ACOG line, but I keep an Aimpoint CCO for any CQB courses or matches I might have a chance to shoot in. Since you've got a great rifle, don't do it an injustice by mounting a crappy optic on it.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.....Nothing wrong with the trigger for field work but for printing paper its a tad heavy. </div></div>

Did you put a trigger gauge on it? If so, what does it average?
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1ajunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocLane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't I tell you on that other forum to stop posting and start shooting. Now get at it!
smile.gif


</div></div>

You did, I am just very excited to finally get my hands on one.
grin.gif


I am leaning toward the trijicon accumpoint 1-4x at the moment, but I'm not sure if that will offer enough magnification for what I plan to use it for. I like the smaller size of the 1-4x optics, but also like something with a little higher magnification. The only problem is more mag comes with a bigger and heavier scope. For the time being, I plan to run irons and come to an optics decision later this fall. </div></div>

1-6 http://swfa.com/Pride-Fowler-1-6x24-Rapid-Reticle-CQLR-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P47269.aspx

1-8 are not much bigger
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

M1A since we are running in exact parralel, (AR is a Colt 6940, was after SCARH and switched to LMT) the optics Im looking at are the Swaro Z6i and the Elcan Specter 1.5X6. Not sure eaither are within wallet range though so looking for viable alternatives with as close to those feature sets as possible.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

The biggest thing that is swaying me from getting this over a FN 17 is the weight difference. It appears that you can take a 17S and put a 2.5-10 scope and ring and come out close to same weight of MWS empty. I am not opposed to a heavy rifle but there is a huge difference between 10lbs vs. 13lbs.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

I agree that the mws is fairly heavy, and most of the wieght it up front in the barrel and extension. One reason I don't want a higher power scope is due to the weight of more magnification. I still want this rifle to be reasonably quick for doing some closer in work. I haven't held a scar 17s, but if it balances as well as my scar 16s, the the 10lbs scar 17s will actually feel much lighter if that makes sense.

I weighed the mws next to my standard m1a, both unloaded. Mws weight roughly 9.5lbs and the m1a weighed roughly 9lbs, but the m1a feels a good bit lighter due to it's weight being more evenly distributed. However the mws compared to my 22" SEI crazy horse with medium weight barrel and synthetic gi stock feels much better. Even after adding an optic to the mws I think it will handle better than the crazy horse, and imo those to rifles are in the same "DMRish" class.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

^^^I handled a 16s and 17s back to back and besides the obvious differences really could not tell a difference in weight. If i am not mistaken they are only about 10-12oz difference in weight.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Just got home from the range and I'll try to give my opinion on this rifle.

Fired about 75 rounds of radway green ammo from 93 that was on machine gun links. No failures of any kind, as I expected. Overall, I am very pleased with the rifle as it's basically an upscaled m4ish rifle. The controls were as expected with any ar with the exception of the bolt release. It is an oversized version similar to those found on KAC's m110 rifle. Very large and easy to find, which made for an easier reload.

Recoil was surprising to me. I haven't fired a .308 rifle in a year or more due to ammo prices so I have grown accustom to the recoil of a .223 and I must say the .308 was a good bit more. Nothing unbearable, but on par with my m1a standard. To show how unprepared for the 308 recoil I was, the first shot from the bench I had the stock extended out 2 positions and on the first round took the rear sight to the shooting glasses. Backed the stock out one more position and no more of that.

The range is roughly 100 yards, not sure of exact distance but very close to 100 yards. I initially zeroed at 50 yards where I only had to raise the point of impact about 2 inches. Once zeroed at 50 yards I moved out to the target at roughly 100 yards where I was able to manage groups roughly 3-4 inches with this surplus ammo from the bench. Not great but I feel with an optic and quality ammo the groups will shrink. To give an idea here is a group I fired before leaving because I realized I didn't have any pics of groups to show. This was fired just holding center of mass on the cardboard torso and I think if I had a black circle it would have eliminated the horizantal spread somewhat.

100_1626.jpg


Most of the day was spent firing off hand at the cardboard torso, focusing on getting hits and not really groupings.
Pic firing from a somewhat highpower type stance:

100_1623.jpg


When using a more agressive stance, I was able to control recoil fairly well.

When I got home, the ups truck had left a package that I plan to try out in the next week or so. Vickers vcas and a tango down vfg that I'm hoping helps control the muzzle.

100_1628.jpg
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

I would not expect much better than 4" with factor irons and mil surplus ammo. You should get down to 1" with the right optic and ammo. A new trigger may see things improve even more....

Congrats on the nice rifle.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
cry.gif
Still waiting on mine. </div></div>Same here
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocLane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not expect much better than 4" with factor irons and mil surplus ammo. You should get down to 1" with the right optic and ammo. A new trigger may see things improve even more....

Congrats on the nice rifle. </div></div>

I am very impressed with the trigger that this rifle comes with. At the range I had this rifle plus my regular ar that is equiped with a gieselle ssa, and to be honest I could not tell a difference between the two triggers when firing either rifle. Both triggers are a tad heavy for shooting tiny groups, but for the intended use of the rifle I think it's a nice trigger. The original plan was to swap the trigger over to a gieselle ssa in the MWS, but after firing it I don't see the need.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1ajunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am very impressed with the trigger that this rifle comes with. .......... Both triggers are a tad heavy for shooting tiny groups, but for the intended use of the rifle I think it's a nice trigger. The original plan was to swap the trigger over to a gieselle ssa in the MWS, but after firing it I don't see the need. </div></div>

Still waiting for the scope mount I ordered (just yesterday) so mine is still a virgin. Like you, I had anticipated replacing the trigger (Geissle DMR) but dry firing the stock trigger feels very good and I will shoot it first before dropping $280.

Unless there is something I don't see on your bench (no bag(s), bipod, rest), I don't see how you could get any better groups than you did with British machine gun ammo. I plan on shooting this as a precision 308 that can be used close in, rather than the other way around. It will sport an Atlas v8 bipod (c'mon Kasey, get 'em built) and will employ a rear bag.

In other words, the mission for mine will be accurate hits at distances of 500-800 from a bipod and supported position. As you noted, it is a heavy bitch, more front heavy than balaced so I don't see it as a "walkin around with" gun. Since my range is only one way, that's not really an issue anyway.

I'd like to see field reports from anyone who has run it like their bolt gun, with precision the emphasis, to see how the MWS did using match ammo. If it shoots 1 moa with those conditions, I'll be very pleased and if it's 2 moa, well, that's a lot of error at 800 yards.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

I shot this with ML118LR reloads, 175smk, varget, LC brass, BR primers,on a Dillon 550. Anchor Stations MWS, prone on a bipod. Shooting the sopmod prone conviced me to sell both my sopmods and buy ACS's. Anchors gun is DEFINTELY at least a 3/4 gun. Since then most precision groups are around 1/2.
83955f44.jpg
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrtoyz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot this with ML118LR reloads, 175smk, varget, LC brass, BR primers,on a Dillon 550. Anchor Stations MWS, prone on a bipod. Shooting the sopmod prone conviced me to sell both my sopmods and buy ACS's. Anchors gun is DEFINTELY at least a 3/4 gun. Since then most precision groups are around 1/2.
83955f44.jpg

</div></div>

Is that flyer the first round after closing the bolt? My gun is not any where near those groups. More like 2"
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrtoyz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot this with ML118LR reloads, 175smk, varget, LC brass, BR primers,on a Dillon 550. Anchor Stations MWS, prone on a bipod. Shooting the sopmod prone conviced me to sell both my sopmods and buy ACS's. Anchors gun is DEFINTELY at least a 3/4 gun. Since then most precision groups are around 1/2.
83955f44.jpg

</div></div>

Thanks MT, what distance, 100 yards or other?
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrtoyz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot this with ML118LR reloads, 175smk, varget, LC brass, BR primers,on a Dillon 550. Anchor Stations MWS, prone on a bipod. Shooting the sopmod prone conviced me to sell both my sopmods and buy ACS's. Anchors gun is DEFINTELY at least a 3/4 gun. Since then most precision groups are around 1/2.
83955f44.jpg

</div></div>

Is that flyer the first round after closing the bolt? My gun is not any where near those groups. More like 2" </div></div>

PC, what are you shooting; ammo, rifle set up (optic, bipod, bag(s), etc)?
 
Re: My new LMT MWS


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PC, what are you shooting; ammo, rifle set up (optic, bipod, bag(s), etc)? </div></div>

Ive tried FGMM 168, Hornady match, handloads and Prvi match. All were 2" + in size.

Scope is fixed 10x SS scope. Bag rest front back. Geissele match trigger set to 1.5lbs. The rifle is not moving as I pie the center and my trigger work is not flawed. The gun will not shoot. Anyway I will start another thread so as not to hijack this one.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

I like my SCAR. That being said, I like this a lot too. Congrats on the nice weapon!
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Very nice OP. IM definitely getting one of these. I hope mine is sub-MOA like everybody elses (except for ProblemChild's)


By the way, PC, Im pretty good at driving .308 ARs. If you want, perhaps we can meet up at Angeles some day and Ill test it our for you. Let me know brotha.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
PC, what are you shooting; ammo, rifle set up (optic, bipod, bag(s), etc)? </div></div>

Ive tried FGMM 168, Hornady match, handloads and Prvi match. All were 2" + in size.

Scope is fixed 10x SS scope. Bag rest front back. Geissele match trigger set to 1.5lbs. The rifle is not moving as I pie the center and my trigger work is not flawed. The gun will not shoot. Anyway I will start another thread so as not to hijack this one. </div></div>

Could be scope parallax not fully adjusted, inconsistent position on the bags, improper follow through... a lot of things besides the rifle.

Put another shooter on the gun. One that has more experience than you shooting semi's (AR platform) and see if he can tighten it up with the same ammo.

How is the rifle's recoil movement?
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Using an aggressive stance, the upward flip of the muzzle is very minimal. However, I was noticing the sights pull right after each shot more than moving upward. The feel of the recoil I could best describe as a "punch to the shoulder" if that makes sense.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jpach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice OP. IM definitely getting one of these. I hope mine is sub-MOA like everybody elses (except for ProblemChild's)


By the way, PC, Im pretty good at driving .308 ARs. If you want, perhaps we can meet up at Angeles some day and Ill test it our for you. Let me know brotha. </div></div>

I'd be all over that and I will supply the ammo.

PM me for contact 411
Burro is closer to me if that works for you.

LMT states 1.5 " is what they test and warranty for. NOT SUB MOA! If anyone has a box of M118LR they can sell me for testing....
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jpach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice OP. IM definitely getting one of these. I hope mine is sub-MOA like everybody elses (except for ProblemChild's)


By the way, PC, Im pretty good at driving .308 ARs. If you want, perhaps we can meet up at Angeles some day and Ill test it our for you. Let me know brotha. </div></div>Just got mine today and it defiantly a sub moa rifle. It's pretty heavy like everyone said but unless you are hiking to the local range you will be ok.

I paid 2100 plus tax.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jpach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice OP. IM definitely getting one of these. I hope mine is sub-MOA like everybody elses (except for ProblemChild's)


By the way, PC, Im pretty good at driving .308 ARs. If you want, perhaps we can meet up at Angeles some day and Ill test it our for you. Let me know brotha. </div></div>Just got mine today and it defiantly a sub moa rifle. It's pretty heavy like everyone said but unless you are hiking to the local range you will be ok.

I paid 2100 plus tax. </div></div>

Good price. Can you post the target? Maybe 5 groups on one page?

 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Well I didn't take a camera but I will this Saturday. Basically similar to what everyone else is posting.

Yep I got a very good price because I ordered the first day they were accepting orders. I'm just happy they honored the original price after it went up.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I didn't take a camera but I will this Saturday. Basically similar to what everyone else is posting.

Yep I got a very good price because I ordered the first day they were accepting orders. I'm just happy they honored the original price after it went up. </div></div>

What ammo were you using?
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Man Im not tracking all the weight complaints.... Is everyone coming from a light ar? It "feels" lighter to me than the rifle its replacing which is a DSA SA58c. It is eons lighter than my AR10 which admitadly is a heavy bastard! Im going to go buy a fish scale and weigh all my rifles. Or maybe I shouldnt because I dont feel it. If I do then Ill know and think about the weight LOL.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

Shane45 - I'm curious to this weight claim too.

I have an AR10T factory LW barrel cut to 18" with a heavy buffer, UBR, LT 13.2 ... I can weigh mine on a scale (no optics, no mag) and see what it comes out to.

I don't see how the LMT would be heavy compared to the 10T with its heavy contour barrel.
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1ajunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Most of the day was spent firing off hand at the cardboard torso, focusing on getting hits and not really groupings.
Pic firing from a somewhat highpower type stance:

100_1623.jpg


When using a more agressive stance, I was able to control recoil fairly well.
</div></div>


Please i hope you do not take offense to what i am about to say but your shooting position and rifle stance can improve significantly from the picture you posted. I am only mentioning this because you mentioned about being surprised by the recoil etc.

1) You should be leaning forward not leaning back from an imaginary vertical line. Think about it, by leaning back the way you are even a small recoil can take you off balance. When you put your weight behind the rifle recoil management is a hell of a lot easier.

2) You should square up with the rifle and target and not stand side ways. When you stand side ways, the recoil on your right shoulder pivots you a lot easier.

3) The stock needs be placed much lower than where it is in the picture. It needs be almost resting on your right pectoralis muscle.

4) You need to support the fore end of the rifle a lot better and further up than holding the magazine. There are several methods, either like the pictures below, or holding the vertical grip if you have one the same way as what your left hand would look if you were holding a pistol with thumb facing forward down the barrel, etc.


Here are a couple of pics that show a proper stance. Once again i hope you are not offended. I just wanted to help out with some pointers.





4056259324_c42e2ce1c5.jpg


chriscosta.jpg

image002-6.jpg
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1ajunkie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>


Please i hope you do not take offense to what i am about to say but your shooting position and rifle stance can improve significantly from the picture you posted. I am only mentioning this because you mentioned about being surprised by the recoil etc.

1) You should be leaning forward not leaning back from an imaginary vertical line. Think about it, by leaning back the way you are even a small recoil can take you off balance. When you put your weight behind the rifle recoil management is a hell of a lot easier.

2) You should square up with the rifle and target and not stand side ways. When you stand side ways, the recoil on your right shoulder pivots you a lot easier.

3) The stock needs be placed much lower than where it is in the picture. It needs be almost resting on your right pectoralis muscle.

4) You need to support the fore end of the rifle a lot better and further up than holding the magazine. There are several methods, either like the pictures below, or holding the vertical grip if you have one the same way as what your left hand would look if you were holding a pistol with thumb facing forward down the barrel, etc.


Here are a couple of pics that show a proper stance. Once again i hope you are not offended. I just wanted to help out with some pointers.


</div></div>

I am not offended at all, you have to learn one way or another. However, in the picture I was shooting to get hits on my little silhouettes at about 100 yards away. I have found the method I was using to be much more steady for shooting somewhat accurate while standing.

When shooting at closer in targets that are easier to hit, I use the costa type stance with a vfg. I just can't use his position effectively on longer range targets.


Made it back to the range today and fired another 110 rounds or so of radway green and hirtenberger problem free. Did a little group shooting and came up with a better group than last time right at about 2.5" with the radway. I really feel like this rifle has great potential with better ammo and an optic. The rest of the day was shooting standing at the little torso's 50 yards and in.

I was using the vfg and an aggressive stance today and was able to control the recoil pretty well imo. I am still noticing more movement to the right from the muzzle than upward. I bet this is because of my stance, which next time I go I'll try to get a pic shooting from a more aggressive stance to see if thats the reason for the rightward recoil motion.

I know 5 round groups are frowned upon, but I get bored shooting from the bench and use a 5 round group as a rough estimation of how well myself and the rifle can shoot. As you can tell, this group has some shooter error in it with the low flyer. I'll shoot some ten round groups when I make it to the 300 yard range with an optic.

100_1631.jpg
 
Re: My new LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheTrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I didn't take a camera but I will this Saturday. Basically similar to what everyone else is posting.

Yep I got a very good price because I ordered the first day they were accepting orders. I'm just happy they honored the original price after it went up. </div></div>

What ammo were you using? </div></div>black hills 168 gr match and Winchester 150 GR, any more questions?
 
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