Need Help Choosing Which CZ

[fireman610]

So I have Options and I know that I should say the hell w it and buy all three but funds dont allow that at this time, So I need a lil help

I wanna do a lil build (Shouldnt have gotten rid of my first 452V) and I have three options I need pros and cons on all three

Do I go simple and get another 452 Varmint and stick w 1 caliber, or Do I get all hi tech and go w a 455 Varmint and have Multi Cals, or do I go all out and get a 455 PT.

I know the perks of the 452V Accuracy Etc and the drawbacks Aftermarket accessories Bottom Metal Etc.

455 Varmint-I only know of what I have read on here.

For those of you w the Precision Trainer, Does the Stock really make it worth the extra $$ or will a Boyds or Wallis Forge stock give me the same feel?
Does Spending the extra $$ add any extra accuracy to your groups at all or was more of this matches up w my full size rifle set up type of buy?

Any Honest Help would be appreciated Devils Advocates to spend all my money on the PT..... Dammit Bobby and are making my decision too hard now

Also keep in mind These will be would bought w/o being able to hold feel fondle so that advice of which ever feels better is kinda a moot point at this time unfortunately

 

[justin amateur]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

The 455 American is a lightweight sporter.
Tapered barrel, woods safe trigger that can be adjusted down to about 3 lbs pull.
Fine for chasing small game and offhand shooting. Not a benchrest rifle by any means.
Drawbacks? Woods safe trigger, barrel whip and stock flex.
Plan on pillaring and bedding the receiver and shimming the barrel
in order to improve accuracy and to deal with stock flex and barrel whip.

Inletting of the 455 American

Inletting of the 455 Varmint

The 455 Varmint has a heavier, stronger stock.
Better accuracy with the heavy 0.866 diameter barrels.

Good, open field, small game rifle, where supported shooting can be done.
With a bipod, you can really reach out and tag critters at a distance.
Drawbacks: Heavy, woods safe trigger (same as the American)
Pillaring will be needed as both the stock screws are open to the primary inletting.

Both the American and Varmint have a structural weakness,
where stock screws aren't supported the full 360°.
Over time, compressive load will crush the wood on the open side
and cause kinks to form in the bottom metal.

The Precision Trainer has a bench rest stock, very rigid.
Pillaring is not needed, but epoxy shimming of the receiver
will result in an exact custom fit for a very tight feel.
Barrel shimming will improve accuracy and a better trigger will be needed
in order to be competitive off the bench.

 

[Oso]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

I bought the 455 Varmit Thumbhole Stock. Mine has a single set trigger. The trigger is fantastic and you can't beat the feel of a thumbhole on a light caliber rifle. I spent $500.

Reality of multibarrel is that you are more likely going to keep one barrel in gun. Otherwise, every time you change barrel you will need to resight the gun. I went with second option - buying seperate setups for each desired calibel (more toys). If you have a 22LR and 17HMR you will never need/use the 22WMR.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have a 22LR and 17HMR you will never need/use the 22WMR.</div></div>

Unless there's a run on ammunition, I can still find 22 wmr.

The drop in barrels worked out well. With the actions pillared and shimmed,
accuracy is consistent, as long as the torque used on the barrel and stock screws,
is set the same each time a barrel is swapped. Lilja offers 17hm2
and 22lr in match grade tapered and straight cylinder barrels,
with word of 17 hmr being offered later this year.

I haven't modified the factory trigger as I use my 455's to hunt.
Trigger pull is set at 3 lbs 8 ozs, which is fine for my skill level and safety.

Having the factory 17 hmr, 22lr, 22 wmr and a Lilja tapered 22lr
means I swap back and forth all the time. Keeps me busy on range days.

 

[fireman610]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both the American and Varmint have a structural weakness,
where stock screws aren't supported the full 360°.
Over time, compressive load will crush the wood on the open side
and cause kinks to form in the bottom metal. </div></div>

So is this or can this be corrected by Pillaring & Bedding??

 

[JBM_DC]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I noticed barrel whip was a drawback in your list for the American. I have been looking for a high frames per second HD video of this and turned up nothing. Does anyone know where I can find more information on this?

As to the OP, I would have to agree that the swapping of the barrels is something that might sound cool and seem useful. I recently purchased a 455 American .22lr and have no intentions of ever swapping the barrel on it for another caliber. I would simply save for a while and then purchase another rifle.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

CZ is coming out with a 455 Tacticool along with a 455 Thumbhole Varmint for 2013:

http://download.cz-usa.com/2013/2013_CZ-USA_NEW_PRODUCT_ANNOUNCEMENT_WITH_PICS.pdf

Within the CZ line unless you absolutely want/need your rimfire in a Manner's stock there is no reason to spend the extra $$$ as the barreled action is the same as a Varmint.

Personally I'd get the Tacticool and eventually purchase a Lija barrel for it. This would give you the multi-caliber option as well as yield the highest degree of accuracy that can be obtained with a CZ.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can this be corrected by Pillaring & Bedding??</div></div>

Definitely

455 Varmint, bronze pillars and epoxy shims

455 American, pillars and shims

Bronze pillars have a compressive strength of 70,000 lbs/sq. inch
You would really have to work at making those kink the bottom metal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed barrel whip was a drawback in your list for the American</div></div>

All barrels whip/flex, the difference is that slender barrels whip more.
That's why heavy barrels are used in bench rest shooting, less flex.
Calfee did a writeup a few years back, lemme see if I still have the link.
Yep, still had it...

http://www.ozfclass.com/articles/1/psm_2005_03.html

 

[JBM_DC]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaia</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can this be corrected by Pillaring & Bedding??</div></div>

Definitely

455 Varmint, bronze pillars and epoxy shims

455 American, pillars and shims

Bronze pillars have a compressive strength of 70,000 lbs/sq. inch
You would really have to work at making those kink the bottom metal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I noticed barrel whip was a drawback in your list for the American</div></div>

All barrels whip/flex, the difference is that slender barrels whip more.
That's why heavy barrels are used in bench rest shooting, less flex.
Calfee did a writeup a few years back, lemme see if I still have the link.
Yep, still had it...

http://www.ozfclass.com/articles/1/psm_2005_03.html



</div></div>

I understand barrel whip, what I do not understand is how much whip a .22lr could possibly cause with an American contour barrel vs the heavier bull barrels. I understand that in a bench rest situation that every little bit counts, but I also see tuners as a way to help ensure there is no whip in the light .22lr cartridge. I guess what I am saying is that I don't see enough energy to cause the lighter weight barrels to whip with the .22lr cartridge. I realize that there will be a little vibration in every barrel, I just would like to know or see how much. I guess what I would like to see is a light weight barrel compared to a varmint type barrel in a HFPS HD video with the .22lr.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

Never seen hi-speed video of barrel whip, only results at the target.
Same rifle fired from a test rest, using Wolf ME and Eley Tenex
heavy barrel and the tapered barrel from the same stock and receiver,
Tapered barrel threw 3/4 inch 10 round groups, straight barrel threw 1/2 inch 10 round groups.
Using Blazer hi-v rounds the heavy barrel shot 3/4 inch groups, tapered 1-1/2" groups.
Only examples I have from personal experience.

 

[plunker20]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

I like the 455 tactical model but I've never shot one there not a store within 100 miles that carries cz

 

[JBM_DC]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never seen hi-speed video of barrel whip, only results at the target.
Same rifle fired from a test rest, using Wolf ME and Eley Tenex
heavy barrel and the tapered barrel from the same stock and receiver,
Tapered barrel threw 3/4 inch 10 round groups, straight barrel threw 1/2 inch 10 round groups.
Using Blazer hi-v rounds the heavy barrel shot 3/4 inch groups, tapered 1-1/2" groups.
Only examples I have from personal experience. </div></div>

What that experiment suffers from is two different barrels, real world interference, both barrels may not like the same ammunition. But where I could be convinced is that if your 1-1/2" groups shrunk from that to 1/2" or 3/4" average with a barrel tuner. Have you tried one? I am not trying to be an ass, I really am just very curious on this subject.

Please reply in PM... sorry to take this so off topic.

 

[justin amateur]

Re: Need Help Choosing Which CZ

pm coming at ya

hi-speed video found, pretty much as Calfee described

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FaW_Hs0B79c&lr=1"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FaW_Hs0B79c&lr=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

and this shows what happens on a big toy

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/s5pVya7eask"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/s5pVya7eask" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

this one didn't embed so just a link

http://www.military.com/video/guns/rifles/slow-motion-ruger-mini-14-barrel-firing/1458270422001/