Highpower shooters loved them for years. If I recall, they offered a left hand twist .224 that got some attention due to how it recoiled offhand, but I could be confusing this with another brand.
New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge
- Thread starter Gtscotty
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Highpower shooters loved them for years. If I recall, they offered a left hand twist .224 that got some attention due to how it recoiled offhand, but I could be confusing this with another brand.
I think Satern tends to make barrels with short gas systems. Like 18" grendels with mid gas. Not for me. I beleive there were also two diffrent qualities of barrels sold under that name. The 18" grendel midgas satern barrel I had was ok. MOAish.
You always have to remeber lots of people not only can't shoot, but couldn't find their ass with both hands.
You always have to remeber lots of people not only can't shoot, but couldn't find their ass with both hands.
Seems like all the 6arc crew is in this thread, good.
Got some Hornady black label and a 6mm "0.241" mandrel coming in today.
Do any of you know what the difference between Hornady 105g bthp and their Aeromatch 105g bullets is.
Aeromatch supposedly is small batch and same lott, good.
Bur their verbage about the ogive is confusing.
As I understand it their legacy 105g bthp is secant ogive and the Aeromatch is tangent or hybrid?
Local store is out of both.
Got some Hornady black label and a 6mm "0.241" mandrel coming in today.
Do any of you know what the difference between Hornady 105g bthp and their Aeromatch 105g bullets is.
Aeromatch supposedly is small batch and same lott, good.
Bur their verbage about the ogive is confusing.
As I understand it their legacy 105g bthp is secant ogive and the Aeromatch is tangent or hybrid?
Local store is out of both.
I could be wrong, but I think their aeromatch 105 is supposed to be a clone of the berger 105 target which is a hybrid ogive and yes the 105 bthp is secant
I just got the Hornady blk 6arc delivered. Yup secant ogive and no damn surprise doesn't fit well in my brand new Lee seating stem.
Plunk check was perfect and also chambered a little tight on my uncleaned new barrel using finger pressure on back of bcg. No scratches upon slow manual extraction.
Now to get my hands on an Aeromatch 105g
Plunk check was perfect and also chambered a little tight on my uncleaned new barrel using finger pressure on back of bcg. No scratches upon slow manual extraction.
Now to get my hands on an Aeromatch 105g
Mine shot great for about 1200 rounds and now it’s starting to double group and do all kinds of weird stuff. Shoot one 10 shot group in one are. Cool it off come back and the next 10 shots go like 6 inches to the right of the other group. Very odd.
This may sound obvious, but change to a known good optic/mount. I’ve seen this and it was a lens changing parallax that had to be repaired.
And if you haven’t, scope the throat for a carbon ring.
I quit Leupold long ago. Not because I’ve broken one, but I RSO at the local range 5-6 days a year, and shoot in the off hours a lot.
I’ve seen enough people complain about broken leupold, or not holding zero, or turrets that don’t repeat/tract. Even the high end Leupold scopes.
I’d rather not have to pay $1500+ to have a decent hunting scope that tracks true and returns to zero, when Arken and Athlon and others make scopes under $600 that track true.
Flame suit on, but the Philippines and China are giving Oregon a run for their money value wise.
I’ve seen enough people complain about broken leupold, or not holding zero, or turrets that don’t repeat/tract. Even the high end Leupold scopes.
I’d rather not have to pay $1500+ to have a decent hunting scope that tracks true and returns to zero, when Arken and Athlon and others make scopes under $600 that track true.
Flame suit on, but the Philippines and China are giving Oregon a run for their money value wise.
X-Caliber 14.5" 4140 barrel, HBAR profile, VG6 brake (P&W), Aero bolt, BCM BLEM upper, PSA lower, G S3G trigger, MI drop-in handguards, Vudu 5-25x.
yeah, not free-floated, heresy, blasphemy! Therefore HBAR.
Geissele, E-Lander, ASC mags.
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It’s the barrel. I tried 3 different scopes and switched them. Nightforces all worked fine on the other guns.
Checked for a carbon ring after cleaning and nothing was present. Took it back out and shot another 200 rounds with similar results. I’ve just had bad luck with cheaper 6ARC barrels. The Odin I had was abysmal. The satern was a laser beam. Factory ammo and Handloads. Gonna try it one last time with 108’s tomorrow. I didn’t get the cut rifled one though I should specify I got it through Grendel Hunter but it is a satern barrel. It probably has close to 3k on it because even though it wasn’t tight grouping it didn’t stop me from hitting IPSC’s out to 1100 yards. Getting great ES and SD still with my 27.5 tac 108 ELDM Ruag greenfire primer load. I loaded the next load right at mag length of 2.295 COAL. We will see how it does tomorrow. X caliber bull barrel is next in the chute.
Decent first outing with a new Geissele 18” Stratomatch 6ARC. Shooting factory Hornady 108s at 2550fps average. No issues with 15rd ASC mags. Ejected at 3 o’clock with a 7.62 RC2 suppressor without an adjustable gas block, and locked back every time. An old timer snagged my brass, so I have no idea what the casings looked like.
Going to have a chance to try to reach out to 1k yards Friday with my 6arc gasser and my 6.5 Bolty. Wish me luck.
Tried out some 110 SMK over LVR. 28.5 seems most accurate so far but still far from acceptable. No pressure signs so I’ll keep climbing.
Seekins 18” Proof CF
Garmin Xero
Seekins 18” Proof CF
Garmin Xero
Anyone ever get a 6 ARC barrel chambered for the type 1 bolt instead of the type 2? I feel like the type 2 should be the standard. I ask b/c I just got a 16" MLGS 416R 6 ARC barrel delivered by Blackhole Weaponry and when I checked the headspace it easily failed the 1.200" SAAMI Field gauge. I tried with another bolt and it also easily failed the field gauge.
I emailed them and they wrote back saying "barrels are set to a type one bolt using a 7.62x39 for the 6arc" which I was a little surprised to hear. I don't think there was a drop down on their website for which bolt type you want the barrel chambered for so they defaulted to type 1. Now I have to mail it back so they can swap it for a type 2 barrel (I want to maintain cross compatibility with my other 6 ARC upper). Frustrating but oh well, I can now use this time to re-assemble my 18" 6 arc upper with the PVA osprey barrel.
I emailed them and they wrote back saying "barrels are set to a type one bolt using a 7.62x39 for the 6arc" which I was a little surprised to hear. I don't think there was a drop down on their website for which bolt type you want the barrel chambered for so they defaulted to type 1. Now I have to mail it back so they can swap it for a type 2 barrel (I want to maintain cross compatibility with my other 6 ARC upper). Frustrating but oh well, I can now use this time to re-assemble my 18" 6 arc upper with the PVA osprey barrel.
I don't know if the Hornady app data has had a recent change, or if their load/velocity table entry for Staball Match has been way wrong for a while, but they baited me into trying some of their STBM loads by showing them as the same velocity as the top CFE223 and LVR loads. The bad part is that I've loaded all three powders in a few different cartridges enough to know they were smoking crack on the STB/LVR equivalency, but I loaded some up to try anyway.
But of course it was nonsense and the real world STBM velocities were a solid 200+ fps behind LVR in the same barrel. I have a hard time understanding how something this far off gets published.
But of course it was nonsense and the real world STBM velocities were a solid 200+ fps behind LVR in the same barrel. I have a hard time understanding how something this far off gets published.
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Trying to get Hornady app downloaded and functional.
Something wrong with verification or server.
Anyway I have a handful of hard facts, and some thoughts on going forward.
Factory black old school hornady 105 match loads were very soft shooting in my 24 inch Faxon barrel, in fact looked like they would group soon on new barrel..
Lets just consider all these measurements as nominal, I have rounded them off for examples.
but just in case there are any trolls looking for something to bitch about, I use tool steel as calibration blocks, these are ground to 0.0000, +/- 0.0001 . But I'm not going there.
ARS magazine, bullets scraped at 2.300 COAL.
2.300 COAL put BTO of the areomatch 105g 6mm bullets at 1.560 inches.
So for safety I cut 0.0200 from AOL nominal from the magazine length.
Left me at coal of 2.280 and a bto of 1.540, it chambered under thumb pressure, there was a slide mark before the ogive. I think from the forcing cone since not a scratch or cut from lands.
The factory 105 black came in at 2.220 coal and 1.583 bto.
The listing from Hornady above, 2.245 coal and 1.505 bto for the Aeromatch
So I guess their coal is driven by Magpul magazines.
Looks like I can take advantage of the ars mags for the extra 0.040 thou worth of powder.
Need to finish my modified case to find lands but if near chamber spec I have a huge jump already.
Something wrong with verification or server.
Anyway I have a handful of hard facts, and some thoughts on going forward.
Factory black old school hornady 105 match loads were very soft shooting in my 24 inch Faxon barrel, in fact looked like they would group soon on new barrel..
Lets just consider all these measurements as nominal, I have rounded them off for examples.
but just in case there are any trolls looking for something to bitch about, I use tool steel as calibration blocks, these are ground to 0.0000, +/- 0.0001 . But I'm not going there.
ARS magazine, bullets scraped at 2.300 COAL.
2.300 COAL put BTO of the areomatch 105g 6mm bullets at 1.560 inches.
So for safety I cut 0.0200 from AOL nominal from the magazine length.
Left me at coal of 2.280 and a bto of 1.540, it chambered under thumb pressure, there was a slide mark before the ogive. I think from the forcing cone since not a scratch or cut from lands.
The factory 105 black came in at 2.220 coal and 1.583 bto.
The listing from Hornady above, 2.245 coal and 1.505 bto for the Aeromatch
So I guess their coal is driven by Magpul magazines.
Looks like I can take advantage of the ars mags for the extra 0.040 thou worth of powder.
Need to finish my modified case to find lands but if near chamber spec I have a huge jump already.
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Modified case.
Not sure what this one is modified for but it is not factory stuff anymore.
What you get when your "rigged" "holding" fixture doesn't.
LMAO
Drill press down so tried free hand.
Poster child for the machinists.
Improvised wooden holding fixture. Drill bit grabbed the thin material and sucked it up.
Not sure what this one is modified for but it is not factory stuff anymore.
What you get when your "rigged" "holding" fixture doesn't.
LMAO
Drill press down so tried free hand.
Poster child for the machinists.
Improvised wooden holding fixture. Drill bit grabbed the thin material and sucked it up.
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I make my own modified cases. I remove the decapping assembly from my sizing die and givethe case a few light taps to seat it. I then chuck the die in my lathe and do the drilling and tapping. I then use my press to remove the case from the die.
Why wouldn't you just hold the base of the case in your jaws??
Ive tapped 100s of cases for myself and others. I put the case in my lathe jaws right at thr thick base with little pressure then proceed to drill and tap
Ended up not pulling down the other rifle. Had a Colt upper for a Mod1 and just used that a it’s riding my SBR lower, though but is a P&W.
Pulled the Noveske gas block and pinned a Superlative Arms on with their gas tube. Has the matched Noveske bolt.
Scope is an old NXS F1 with NP-R1 reticle. (God’s reticle, bring it back Nightforce!). Has a Balderknob front ring cap for Trijicon RMR and a Reptillia 10mm spacer to get over the elevation turret. I think this is going to work fine.
First outing was bad. Real bad. Like I was jamming 105BTHPs deep and it wouldn’t feed the first round. 80s ran like a top. 105s sucked ass. I think facing this receiver caused a tiny lip in the ramps that wasn’t noticed as the 80s ran so well, the extension was set back every so slightly, so barrel got pulled, milled and ramps polished. Hoping I have the ammo situation figured out. Thanks to @Ledzep for the assist.
I should be zero’ing tomorrow, and getting dope to at least 600. If it’s at least a 1.5 MOA rifle I’ll carry it for my DMR run and Gun the 18th. (I really hope it’s better than MOA). If not, I’ll probably run a mod0 or just a URGI.
First and foremost I drill and tap in the lathe so the chuck pressure would probably deform the case. #2 the dies are so dimensionally correct that I don't even have to indicate them to check runout. The 1/4-28 mandrel that I machined to thread in is always concentric in the neck.
No doubt a lathe is the best tool to use.
I'm not waiting on major tool so I just ordered one from Hornady.
It will be off from my chamber but I can take measurements and do the math.
I don't plan on sucking up to the lands even if it were possible which I think not with the aeromatch 105 in a magazine dimensionally impossible I think
.
Touted as jump tolerant which as I have found not the norm from Hornady.
I'm not waiting on major tool so I just ordered one from Hornady.
It will be off from my chamber but I can take measurements and do the math.
I don't plan on sucking up to the lands even if it were possible which I think not with the aeromatch 105 in a magazine dimensionally impossible I think
.Touted as jump tolerant which as I have found not the norm from Hornady.
No doubt a lathe is the best tool to use.
I'm not waiting on major tool so I just ordered one from Hornady.
It will be off from my chamber but I can take measurements and do the math.
I don't plan on sucking up to the lands even if it were possible which I think not with the aeromatch 105 in a magazine dimensionally impossible I think
Touted as jump tolerant which as I have found not the norm from Hornady.
The Hornady OAL case for the 6 ARC measures 1.80” at the datum line on the shoulder. A case fired in my AR measures 1.93” at the datum line and a case fired in my bolt gun measure 1.86”. It would be easy enough to figure out the difference if using this tool.
Never used their new Aeromatch line but the other Hornady bullets, AMAX/BTHP/ELD-M/ATip, are very jump tolerant. The Aeromatch are looking to be like the similar bullet from another manufacturer so they may not be.
The 105BTHPs shoot almost identical to the 77SMK, though they zero about 1” to the right?
I have some of the Aeromatch 105s on hand but won’t be able to test them today. They look a lot like hybrids
Running Hornaday105 BTHP and 95gr SMKs. Both over Lever. Wheels up in 20 minutes, should be the warmest part of the day when I get there. We’ll see how it goes.
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Well my new barrel is set dead on 1.900 so close to yours. I will use their factory ammo size tool till I get one to match my chamber but looks like the math will be easy . Lol
It's strange that we get polar opposite results on jump settings for most Hornady bullets .
I had thought everyone was crazy but know that's wrong.
I also know my results, and efforts.
That being said, I may have figured out why finally.
Lee will make a seating stem for any bullet you send them, which I only became aware of recently. I believe that was part of my problem all this time. (Duh)
Better yet they make a whole new redisighned seating die now that properly fits secant ogive and hybrid ogive bullets.
I got my hands on some and they fit the Aeromatch 105 well it seems.
It appears the Aeromatch series very closely aligns with a couple of top brands.
I made a dummy load for 6mm arc wth a fire formed case and the Hornady 105 Aeromatch.
It's 0.020 off the ars magazine (2.300) and 0.050 off the case mouth at 1.540 bto, 2.280 coal.
It chambers with thumb pressure on the back of the bcg. It's not hitting lands but may be touching the forcing cone?
I'm not sure how to deal with that, I don't want to build pressure.
Nearly zero successful experience with hybrid or (compound) ogive bullets .
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Yeah the Aeromatch line was made to be similar to others. Their jump sensitivity will be their own and not a generalization of all of the Hornady lines of course.
Edit 10-13 - these cases are Nosler, but Norma.
Has anyone else has issues with Nosler cases?
Edit: I thought my issue was a short throat, and the throat is a contributor but I don’t think that’s the main culprit.
Once fired and small based sized brass runs fine. New Nosler will load in the chamber unloaded. When I make a dummy round, it locks the bolt up out of battery and requires a mortar to extract. Sometimes the bullet comes out, sometimes it sticks. I was thinking neck thickness but it’s the same as loaded Hornaday.
After messing with it last night I think I have tracked it down to the neck tension (very light, even with a taper crimp) and something a bit too big somewhere in the shoulder or body. My measurements all seem good, but a virgin loaded dummy sticks. A small based virgin dummy loads and extracts fine.
It’s just odd as the web and HS are .010” under fired sizes and the necks are essentially the same. Easy fix though, I’ll just size all the cases today and try again later this week.
Other strange but is it’s kicking cases out at 5 o’clock but every third round was riding over the case head and grabbing the case half way up, multiple magazines. Swapping to an H3 seemed to help, but it’s odd to have the signs of being under gassed and have bolt speed that fast…. Makes me wonder if this is more or an ejector/extractor bi-product and not gas?
Has anyone else has issues with Nosler cases?
Edit: I thought my issue was a short throat, and the throat is a contributor but I don’t think that’s the main culprit.
Once fired and small based sized brass runs fine. New Nosler will load in the chamber unloaded. When I make a dummy round, it locks the bolt up out of battery and requires a mortar to extract. Sometimes the bullet comes out, sometimes it sticks. I was thinking neck thickness but it’s the same as loaded Hornaday.
After messing with it last night I think I have tracked it down to the neck tension (very light, even with a taper crimp) and something a bit too big somewhere in the shoulder or body. My measurements all seem good, but a virgin loaded dummy sticks. A small based virgin dummy loads and extracts fine.
It’s just odd as the web and HS are .010” under fired sizes and the necks are essentially the same. Easy fix though, I’ll just size all the cases today and try again later this week.
Other strange but is it’s kicking cases out at 5 o’clock but every third round was riding over the case head and grabbing the case half way up, multiple magazines. Swapping to an H3 seemed to help, but it’s odd to have the signs of being under gassed and have bolt speed that fast…. Makes me wonder if this is more or an ejector/extractor bi-product and not gas?
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Got to take my GFR out to the 100 yard range to zero and try out all of Hornady’s factory loads (minus the VT). 10 round groups. I wish I had BallisticX to measure them.
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Edit 10-13, Nosler cases not Norma
Think I have it sorted. I ran 50 or so rounds today. All new Nosler gear brass that has been FLSB sized.
I changed the buffer spring to a standard carbine spring and went down to an H1 buffer. With the gas wide open w/no bleed off and 105s it’s kick the cases out at 4 o’clock. Locks back on all six mags, feeds from all six mags (not tried full yet).
Chrono of the 105s over lever (.5gr under listed max) showed 2575fps with an SD of 8.1fps. Shot one group off a bipod that went a touch over .9” at 100 yards. Plugged the numbers into quantum and verified come ups at 300,400,500 and 600 yards. Pretty much spot on.
I loaded 30 rounds of 80gr ELD VT as well. Shot one group of 5 at 100 yards and it went to 2.5”. Brass went to 3 o’clock but they shoot like shit sonI probably won’t mess with these. The 105s are cheaper anyway.
105s
80 ELD VT
Think I have it sorted. I ran 50 or so rounds today. All new Nosler gear brass that has been FLSB sized.
I changed the buffer spring to a standard carbine spring and went down to an H1 buffer. With the gas wide open w/no bleed off and 105s it’s kick the cases out at 4 o’clock. Locks back on all six mags, feeds from all six mags (not tried full yet).
Chrono of the 105s over lever (.5gr under listed max) showed 2575fps with an SD of 8.1fps. Shot one group off a bipod that went a touch over .9” at 100 yards. Plugged the numbers into quantum and verified come ups at 300,400,500 and 600 yards. Pretty much spot on.
I loaded 30 rounds of 80gr ELD VT as well. Shot one group of 5 at 100 yards and it went to 2.5”. Brass went to 3 o’clock but they shoot like shit sonI probably won’t mess with these. The 105s are cheaper anyway.
105s
80 ELD VT
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I had a similar issue with virgin alpha brass needing the shoulder bumped back a few thou so they didn’t stick in my chamber with headspaced bolt. Virgin hornady brass was fine and didn’t need to be bumped back or anything so it seems to depend on the manufacturer and how tight your bolt is on your chamber. My headspaced bolt closed very tight on a 1.191” go gauge so it didn’t have much wiggle room. When I switched to a non headspaced spare bolt out of curiosity it closed fine on the virgin alpha brass without any shoulder bump
Edit 10-13, Nosler brass not Norma
I also had no issues with factory Hornaday loads. The Nosler shoots pretty good, all things considered. It’s just a little extra work before priming. Since most of this brass is going to get left on the range (2 gun/tactical biathlon) I want the cheapest brass I can get my hands in that won’t separate.
I wish I would have gone with a Redding type S small base over the RCBS. I really would like more than .002” neck tension, even with the taper crimp. I tried polishing the RCBS expander ball, then tried running it in a drill over a file. I literally could not get it to remove material from that expander. Maybe they sell an undersized ball?
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If you don’t want to spend the $$ to get a bushing FL sizer You could take the expander ball out and set your neck tension with an expander die and some mandrels from 21stcentury, cortina precision, etc..
No telling what RCBS uses in their expander ball?
I use the drill, emory cloth in 200, 400, and 800 grits. I can't say I have ever spent more than 15 minutes on an expander ball and not had to use a file.
Is the expander ball "Free spinning" on the shaft ?
I use Lee die sets for a reference.
It’s not free spinning. Pretty basic set of dies. I honestly didn’t think I’d even need to use the sizer when I bought the kit. Plan was to hand prime, then just use the seater in a 550 to turn out mass amounts.
Still doable. But not with this brass until after a sizing.
I don't understand
Sizing is pretty standard in all reloading unless you are a neck sizing person.
I undersize the expander then us a mandrel to get what I want and don't ever consider neck sizing again, didn't like it.
Sizing is pretty standard in all reloading unless you are a neck sizing person.
I undersize the expander then us a mandrel to get what I want and don't ever consider neck sizing again, didn't like it.
I bought these cases and never meant to reload them. Plan was to Just pull them from the bag, prime and load directly out of the bag, fire and leave on them on the range. If they fit, there would be no need to size.
As it turns out, I need to FL size to get them to work and because I’m forced to size them anyway, I see some deficiencies with the way this die sets neck tension.
I’ll need to look into it. I haven’t figured out my cost per round yet as I haven’t settle on a bullet but I think I’m going to be happy with the 105BTHP and Lever.
Edit: $.97 + tx per shot with these handloads. With tax probably right at $1.06 per shot .
That said, I have been rolling my own for so long it seems almost wrong to buy rifle ammo. Makes no financial sense for me to build my own 77sg 223 anymore with AAC at $.30 less per round but there I was last night churning that shit out for next season.
What are guys using for off the shelf bulk ammo?
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Finally got back from the farm and my modified case had arrived.
My chamber
1.190 headspace
Lands with Aeromatch 1.600
Case trim 1.48
Ars magazine 2.300 max.
So according to my calculator
I can run 2.28 AOL (0.020 clearance)
1.540 bto for a 0.060 jump and 0.060 from case mouth for the ogive.
All seems very civilized like someone had planned that. All closely related to Saami spec.
Will have to set up my fancy new seating die , Lee "precision bullet seating die" and give it a spin.
Oh heck forgot some other measurements I took of interest to some maybe.
Hornady Aeromatch 6mm (compound profile) 1.270 oal
Bto of 0.531, nose 0.740, nom.
The bto of the bullets is very steady at " 0.5315" in my batch.
Almost zero tolerance on that the bto and nose vary up to minus 0.0020 and plus 0.0050 but that floats in space.
My chamber
1.190 headspace
Lands with Aeromatch 1.600
Case trim 1.48
Ars magazine 2.300 max.
So according to my calculator
I can run 2.28 AOL (0.020 clearance)
1.540 bto for a 0.060 jump and 0.060 from case mouth for the ogive.
All seems very civilized like someone had planned that. All closely related to Saami spec.
Will have to set up my fancy new seating die , Lee "precision bullet seating die" and give it a spin.
Oh heck forgot some other measurements I took of interest to some maybe.
Hornady Aeromatch 6mm (compound profile) 1.270 oal
Bto of 0.531, nose 0.740, nom.
The bto of the bullets is very steady at " 0.5315" in my batch.
Almost zero tolerance on that the bto and nose vary up to minus 0.0020 and plus 0.0050 but that floats in space.
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