so iv just started Loading for my ar, i load for my bolt guns. But never for a gas gun. Iv got a 1 in 7 twist . So i know it will handle up to a 77 gr bullet. I have some 50 and 69 gr bullets for powder all i have for now is RL15 , IMR4064 and ramshot x-terminator. im not big on ball powder but my 223 bolt gun likes it with 52 gr smk. The big question is i dont have a crimp die for 223, so can i use my seating die to JUST barely pinch a crimp on the bullet ? Iv done this before testing to see if it might have a effect on my group size. Just not sure if its enough for my AR15. I think i would just make me feel better with some kind a crimp...... thanks
- Thread starter cjmac1988
- Start date
I don't know but I been told: X terminator is exact same powder as Accurate 2230, which was formulated especially for the 223. Xterm is an excellent choice whether it's true or not. I also use TAC, surplus WC844, Win 748, IMR4895, Acc 2015, and several more I can't recall at the moment. I'm at "work."
If I didn't have a seperate die for crimping, meaning a taper crimp die or the Lee factory crimp die, I would not crimp at all. Most say you don't need to crimp for an AR. I do it anyway, but I don't use the roll crimp feature built into the seating die. That roll crimp is very sensitive to variations in case length and neck thickness. If you put too much crimp with it, you'll collapse the shoulder and bulge the case just below the shoulder. The round will not fully chamber in this condition. I use the LEE FCD and apply a LIGHT crimp just to ease my mind--semiauto functions are violent by design, and the possibility of shoving a bullet into the case exists in my mind regardless of what anyone tells me to the contrary. When I load strictly for accuracy and the ammo will be strictly range-use-only, THEN I may not crimp and I have had no trouble with uncrimped ammo. BUT any ammo loaded for multiple semiauto weapons and general use gets crimped at my house. YMMV
Small base dies-I use them in all my loading for semiauto ammo. I own several AR's and at least 2 of those will have difficulty if I do not use small base dies. Many seem to be under the impression that small base dies will over-work your brass and reduce it's life. I have not seen this in the 30 years I've been reloading. AS FAR AS I KNOW, the SB dies simply size the brass a little farther down towards the bottom of the case to allow for a chamber that may be a little tighter than others. Most people/most guns don't necessarily require SB.
And MERRY CHRISTMAS!
If I didn't have a seperate die for crimping, meaning a taper crimp die or the Lee factory crimp die, I would not crimp at all. Most say you don't need to crimp for an AR. I do it anyway, but I don't use the roll crimp feature built into the seating die. That roll crimp is very sensitive to variations in case length and neck thickness. If you put too much crimp with it, you'll collapse the shoulder and bulge the case just below the shoulder. The round will not fully chamber in this condition. I use the LEE FCD and apply a LIGHT crimp just to ease my mind--semiauto functions are violent by design, and the possibility of shoving a bullet into the case exists in my mind regardless of what anyone tells me to the contrary. When I load strictly for accuracy and the ammo will be strictly range-use-only, THEN I may not crimp and I have had no trouble with uncrimped ammo. BUT any ammo loaded for multiple semiauto weapons and general use gets crimped at my house. YMMV
Small base dies-I use them in all my loading for semiauto ammo. I own several AR's and at least 2 of those will have difficulty if I do not use small base dies. Many seem to be under the impression that small base dies will over-work your brass and reduce it's life. I have not seen this in the 30 years I've been reloading. AS FAR AS I KNOW, the SB dies simply size the brass a little farther down towards the bottom of the case to allow for a chamber that may be a little tighter than others. Most people/most guns don't necessarily require SB.
And MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I use a Wilson case gauge for my AR-15 rounds. If it doesn't fit perfectly then you know the case needs to be FL sized, trimmed etc... Its all SAAMI spec. I also use Redding dies with the bushings and never had a need for small base dies or the competition shell holders. If you're reloading for mag length in an AR then its pretty cut and dry as theres only 1 length possible. I use a LEE crimp as well because of the violent nature of the bolt slamming back and forth and the possibility of the bullets seating deeper in the case even if neck tension is pretty tight. Crimping in my opinion isn't a right or wrong thing to do, its just up to you. If you want to do it then do a very light crimp and it wont hurt anything.
This is exactly the same reloading methods that I practice and use, although I do not have 30 years reloading experience, more like 30 months. My favorite powders for 5.56 are H322 and Varget, although H322 is slightly easier to measure. My favorite bullets are Sierra 77gr BTHP and Nolser 77gr BTHP.
I use small base dies and I only shoot 5.56 in an AR style rifle. No problems with them here either. I use LC brass and CCI military primers only btw. There CAN be a problem with bullet setback if you don't use some kind of crimp, depending on the rifle, etc. I've noticed it with mine, and I have a several 77gr. SMK's and Hornady 75gr. T1's that have to be pulled and reloaded due to no crimp and setback issues. I've switched to the 77gr. SMK's with the cannelure, and I've had no problems since. Accuracy is about the same. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. In fact, I have one of those for every round I load for, and it's the only Lee product I use. These things work really great. Note: military Mk262 mod. 0 had no cannelure, and then they came out with the mod. 1 and it has the cannelure. Obviously they ran into a problem with setback too.
As for powder, it's been dried up, but there's a thread on here mentioning some dealers. In addition, I looked at Ramshot's dealer/distributor sites and started looking those up. No TAC powder (IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!) but these big internet dealers get lots of other powder in from time to time but it goes FAST. I just got 10lbs. of H335 and 10lbs. of BL-C(2) shipped, but if you order online make sure to buy a lot due to the hazmat fees. I should have gotten that can of US869 while I had the chance. Oh well. Next time. Anyway, shop around, some have this in stock but not that, so you have to find "just the right place" to order from to take advantage of hazmat. They also have limits, some are harsh, others not. Expect to buy in only 1lb. cans regardless, save .50BMG powders in 8lbs.
I understand H335 is a better, more standardized version of the military powder used in the M855. So you can load 62gr. SS109's to practically the same as the M855. Note: Factory M855 is actually hotter than what you'll find load data for, in general. However, load data does show this powder as offering maximum velocity compared to other powders, so it may be the best for loading M855 clones.
BL-C(2) is a better, more standardized version of the military powder used in 7.62, and what they use for (I think) the Mk262 with the 77gr. SMK. According to my Hodgdon data, it shows the BL-C(2) as offering the highest velocity for this bullet @ 2804fps., so why not use it anyway? Sierra shows TAC @ 2750fps. followed by AA2520 @ 2700fps. FWIW, BL-C(2) also evenly compares to AA2520 in my 6.5Grendel with 120gr. Nosler BT's.
These two powders, H335 and BL-C(2), can get you by quite nicely, particularly for the time being if nothing else. There are bulk military grade powders similar to these available, but they generally aren't as standardized as the commercial powders are, and it's likely from pulled ammo. In short, I prefer the numbered, commercial grade powder.
For 69gr., highest velocity is obtained from AA2520 @ 2900fps. with Varget next @ 2850fps. (25.3gr. Varget @ 2750fps for best accuracy according to Sierra). Hodgdon shows Varget as the highest velocity @ 3024 followed by BL-C(2) @ 2954fps.
For 55gr., Sierra shows XMR-2015, X-Terminator, AA2230, Viht N135 and TAC as offering the highest velocities, ~3100fps, followed by Viht N130 and IMR-4198 @ 3050fps. H335 next @ 3000fps. Hodgdon claims 3203fps though. These discrepancies in velocities likely have to do with the test barrels Sierra used vs. Hodgdon.
There were several other good powders for the 55gr. in the 3000fps. range as well according to Sierra's data. Also, from personal experience, 55gr. bullets don't perform nearly as well out of 1/7 twist barrels. 62gr. is about as low as I'd go with a 1/7 personally, but the 77gr. SMK's work really nice.
I got all this data and information from Loadbooks, which is a compilation of data from several bullet and powder makers, copied and put into one caliber specific loading manual. I highly recommend these, if available, for every round you load. Make sure to look online to see if the load you want to use has been modified, as some of the data is a little dated, depending. But instead of purchasing several books full of load data you'll never use, you can get these for ~$5 ea. and have all the data you need for that specific caliber. GREAT investment, IMO.
Merry Christmas and good luck and safe loading!
As for powder, it's been dried up, but there's a thread on here mentioning some dealers. In addition, I looked at Ramshot's dealer/distributor sites and started looking those up. No TAC powder (IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!) but these big internet dealers get lots of other powder in from time to time but it goes FAST. I just got 10lbs. of H335 and 10lbs. of BL-C(2) shipped, but if you order online make sure to buy a lot due to the hazmat fees. I should have gotten that can of US869 while I had the chance. Oh well. Next time. Anyway, shop around, some have this in stock but not that, so you have to find "just the right place" to order from to take advantage of hazmat. They also have limits, some are harsh, others not. Expect to buy in only 1lb. cans regardless, save .50BMG powders in 8lbs.
I understand H335 is a better, more standardized version of the military powder used in the M855. So you can load 62gr. SS109's to practically the same as the M855. Note: Factory M855 is actually hotter than what you'll find load data for, in general. However, load data does show this powder as offering maximum velocity compared to other powders, so it may be the best for loading M855 clones.
BL-C(2) is a better, more standardized version of the military powder used in 7.62, and what they use for (I think) the Mk262 with the 77gr. SMK. According to my Hodgdon data, it shows the BL-C(2) as offering the highest velocity for this bullet @ 2804fps., so why not use it anyway? Sierra shows TAC @ 2750fps. followed by AA2520 @ 2700fps. FWIW, BL-C(2) also evenly compares to AA2520 in my 6.5Grendel with 120gr. Nosler BT's.
These two powders, H335 and BL-C(2), can get you by quite nicely, particularly for the time being if nothing else. There are bulk military grade powders similar to these available, but they generally aren't as standardized as the commercial powders are, and it's likely from pulled ammo. In short, I prefer the numbered, commercial grade powder.
For 69gr., highest velocity is obtained from AA2520 @ 2900fps. with Varget next @ 2850fps. (25.3gr. Varget @ 2750fps for best accuracy according to Sierra). Hodgdon shows Varget as the highest velocity @ 3024 followed by BL-C(2) @ 2954fps.
For 55gr., Sierra shows XMR-2015, X-Terminator, AA2230, Viht N135 and TAC as offering the highest velocities, ~3100fps, followed by Viht N130 and IMR-4198 @ 3050fps. H335 next @ 3000fps. Hodgdon claims 3203fps though. These discrepancies in velocities likely have to do with the test barrels Sierra used vs. Hodgdon.
There were several other good powders for the 55gr. in the 3000fps. range as well according to Sierra's data. Also, from personal experience, 55gr. bullets don't perform nearly as well out of 1/7 twist barrels. 62gr. is about as low as I'd go with a 1/7 personally, but the 77gr. SMK's work really nice.
I got all this data and information from Loadbooks, which is a compilation of data from several bullet and powder makers, copied and put into one caliber specific loading manual. I highly recommend these, if available, for every round you load. Make sure to look online to see if the load you want to use has been modified, as some of the data is a little dated, depending. But instead of purchasing several books full of load data you'll never use, you can get these for ~$5 ea. and have all the data you need for that specific caliber. GREAT investment, IMO.
Merry Christmas and good luck and safe loading!
Do you guys have to single feed the 77's. I have never crimped for the AR but my RCBS dies have to be set just right to get them to feed correctly. My 6.8 was way more sensitve than my 3 223 rifles.
I tried once and loaded them to mag length and they were all over the place, definitely not enough neck tension. I was using hornady though i think
Wow this is a lot of info, iv just found some norma powder the other day at a local shop. Thay had all of the current types norma is offering now. I might try some, may try it in my 308, not sure about its case volume tho. I like a powder that fills the case. Not sure if thay are ball or stick powder. Dont know anything bout norma powder
