Any one use both redding and whidden dies? Is there a preference?
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- Thread starter Sendero_Man
- Start date
Depends on how you are going about getting your brass. If you are buying CC pre-worked stuff, the whidden will be fine. If you are making you own from either 300 or 7 saum you will need the Redding with the bushings to go down in stages. I may be wrong but I don't think the Whidden dies have the bushings.
You can have Bushing or FL dies made from Whidden. I have a custom FL die made to my 6.5 Saum chamber.
The Whidden dies are higher quality, IMO.
The Whidden dies are higher quality, IMO.
The whidden den dies are specifically for the 6.5 RSAUM so you won't be able to initially size the 300 RSAUM brass due to the smaller neck than a 7mm die. Can get them with or without bushing sizing die. I have the bushing set and sized 300 RSAUM brass initially with a Redding bushing 7mm die. IMO the Whidden's are very good dies.
I already have the Redding dies and have formed 200 pieces of brass. I was just wondering if anyone has used both bushing dies and mic seaters and prefers one over the other.
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Anyone know anything about this round....McWhorter runs it. Just curious...
6.5 Ackley
Parent case – .280 Ackley improved Nosler Brass and simply size to 6.5, so fire-forming is not a necessity.
-3100 fps with Berger 140 VLD_hunting bullets (26″ barrel, 1 in 9″ twist)
-Exceptional accuracy
-Very Mild Recoil
- Standard bolt face and standard case, so it headspaces off the shoulder, not belt
- Holds 5 rounds (4+1)
-Exeptional Long Range performance out of a non-belted magnum
6.5 Ackley
Parent case – .280 Ackley improved Nosler Brass and simply size to 6.5, so fire-forming is not a necessity.
-3100 fps with Berger 140 VLD_hunting bullets (26″ barrel, 1 in 9″ twist)
-Exceptional accuracy
-Very Mild Recoil
- Standard bolt face and standard case, so it headspaces off the shoulder, not belt
- Holds 5 rounds (4+1)
-Exeptional Long Range performance out of a non-belted magnum
For those inquiring minds that have been wondering about the 160gr Matrix bullet I wanted to pass this along. The velocity should be about the same as the 6.5SAUM. I thought the BC was pretty impressive. Came across it on LRH:
"So I've been playing with my 6.5x280 ackley and Matrix's 160, this is what I found out. With a MV of 2941 the bc out to a tested range of 1331yds is .665 and expansion is good..."
"So I've been playing with my 6.5x280 ackley and Matrix's 160, this is what I found out. With a MV of 2941 the bc out to a tested range of 1331yds is .665 and expansion is good..."
Interesting, you try pointing them at all?
140 JLK's jump to .670 when pointed, Tested to 2000 Yards. Id like to see what the Matrix bullets jump to!!
Harvestor Suppressors Arrived last week, Form 3's are done and pending for those that bought them for their Xtreme Hunters.
I haven't shot the 160 - I reposted the info from this thread: matrix 6.5 160gr bc update - Long Range Hunting Online Magazine I'd guess a .700 bc or a touch more would definitely be in the cards for a pointed 160 matrix. That'd be one bad little bullet!
New Harvester is awesome. 
Done. I've been a lurker and a reader here for quite some time. Never posted (nothing to add). I have spent the last week reading every post on this thread. I am converted. I have been born again - hard. 
Very impressive. Thank you - to George and all you gents that have done so much work testing, developing, posting your results, and answering the seemingly endless questions. I have read one "helluva" alot here - luved it. Impressive.
Thx to all.
Very impressive. Thank you - to George and all you gents that have done so much work testing, developing, posting your results, and answering the seemingly endless questions. I have read one "helluva" alot here - luved it. Impressive.
Thx to all.
Has anyone tried the Swift 130gr Scirocco II in this cartridge? I tried searching on "SAUM Scirocco" but all that came back was this basic thread.
I have been using the 150 matrix out to 1553 yards in a 6.5-06 and came up with a G1 of .645 using a kestrel with Horus. These are apparently similar to 140 Berger hunting vld's in regards to hunting performance where as the 160's have a slightly thicker jacket but I'm sure there will be some hunting reports coming in this season.
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Anyone with experience with the Scirocco? I checked my stock of 6.5s and I found the following:
~500 142gr SMK
100 140gr Berger VLD Hunting
100 130gr Berger VLD Hunting
A few hundred 123gr Amax
A few hundred 123gr SMK
~100 123gr Scenar
I didn't realize I had the 130gr Bergers. My 6.5 SAUM barrel should be done at the end of the month so I'm going to start prepping brass, maybe load up a small batch of ammo.
~500 142gr SMK
100 140gr Berger VLD Hunting
100 130gr Berger VLD Hunting
A few hundred 123gr Amax
A few hundred 123gr SMK
~100 123gr Scenar
I didn't realize I had the 130gr Bergers. My 6.5 SAUM barrel should be done at the end of the month so I'm going to start prepping brass, maybe load up a small batch of ammo.
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Suppressor Question
George I am assuming at these pressures I can shoot a rated 62k psi advance armament .308 can on an extreme hunter SAUM? I will probably end up with a tactical rig...around 26inch barrel and will likely shoot for 139scenars at north of 3100fps. Would appreciate anything you can share so I can plan accordingly for the build and will be calling your folks shortly to get my order going.
George I am assuming at these pressures I can shoot a rated 62k psi advance armament .308 can on an extreme hunter SAUM? I will probably end up with a tactical rig...around 26inch barrel and will likely shoot for 139scenars at north of 3100fps. Would appreciate anything you can share so I can plan accordingly for the build and will be calling your folks shortly to get my order going.
Ok fellas help a newbie out. This is my first wildcat but I've been loading .260,.308 and .223 pretty successfully for years.
I have a 6.4 4s from sac, with the redding set and prepped brass from copper creek. When I got them I Loaded all of them from copper creek with 61 grn of h1000 and fire them with no issues except all of them had some slight resistance closing the bolt but speed and groups were erratic but I chalked it up needing fireformed. So afterwards I tumble them and run them through the dies with a .291 bushing. They chamber check ok with an occasional one giving just a slight resistance right when I go to lower the bolt handle. So I charge and load a couple to with 139 scenar to 2.82. The bolt won't close all the way so I shorten them to 2.78 with no improvement.
Some guys from my earlier post told me to trim down the shoulder. So I got a k&m trimmer, used the expander, then trimmed down to the shoulder a little. Then I dummy loaded a scenar, which had light neck tension and loaded it to 2.83 and it chambered ok but came out 2.822. Needing to make a quick trip to the range I loaded 9 pieces of brass this way to do a little load work up.
So this is the case and results of 60.5 of h1000 and a 139 scenar. I'm looking to repeat that result obviously. but the brass prep was not the correct sequence
So today I run all my brass through my sizing die with a slight cam over in the press. I go to chamber check and still have a slight resistance on the bolt with the initial downward motion. So again I use my expander and run the trimmer down the necks once more on the stuff I sized earlier
Here is where I'm at
Fortunately the brass is slightly tarnished so this stands out better. What is causing the issues at the shoulder-body junction where the bright ring is?? Also look at the neck-shoulder junction. Is it ok to turn down that far?
Is this a die issue with the bushing I haven't done something with correctly?
Before I go any further I wanted to seek some guidance since most of you are having great success with this.
I have a 6.4 4s from sac, with the redding set and prepped brass from copper creek. When I got them I Loaded all of them from copper creek with 61 grn of h1000 and fire them with no issues except all of them had some slight resistance closing the bolt but speed and groups were erratic but I chalked it up needing fireformed. So afterwards I tumble them and run them through the dies with a .291 bushing. They chamber check ok with an occasional one giving just a slight resistance right when I go to lower the bolt handle. So I charge and load a couple to with 139 scenar to 2.82. The bolt won't close all the way so I shorten them to 2.78 with no improvement.
Some guys from my earlier post told me to trim down the shoulder. So I got a k&m trimmer, used the expander, then trimmed down to the shoulder a little. Then I dummy loaded a scenar, which had light neck tension and loaded it to 2.83 and it chambered ok but came out 2.822. Needing to make a quick trip to the range I loaded 9 pieces of brass this way to do a little load work up.
So this is the case and results of 60.5 of h1000 and a 139 scenar. I'm looking to repeat that result obviously.
but the brass prep was not the correct sequence So today I run all my brass through my sizing die with a slight cam over in the press. I go to chamber check and still have a slight resistance on the bolt with the initial downward motion. So again I use my expander and run the trimmer down the necks once more on the stuff I sized earlier
Here is where I'm at
Fortunately the brass is slightly tarnished so this stands out better. What is causing the issues at the shoulder-body junction where the bright ring is?? Also look at the neck-shoulder junction. Is it ok to turn down that far?
Is this a die issue with the bushing I haven't done something with correctly?
Before I go any further I wanted to seek some guidance since most of you are having great success with this.
What length are you trimming the brass to ?
distance to lands ?
was it chambered correctly ? Throated to short ?
distance to lands ?
was it chambered correctly ? Throated to short ?
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Is haven't trimmed yet my longest piece is 2.012. Most are 2.009-2.010
Have you checked distance to lands ?
not a gunsmith, but thinking the throat needs opened up
not a gunsmith, but thinking the throat needs opened up
I've loaded 2 dummy rounds with 139 scenar at. 2.830 with very ligh neck tension and they came out 2.824 and 2.822 so my I've been loading 2.820.
If I take all my once fire copper creek brass that I've resized then expand the necks on a mandral and retrim down to the shoulder neck junction they seem to chamber ok.
I'm trying to figure out if I have a issue with the dies/setup or if something happened and there's a issue with the chamber SAC did.
If I take all my once fire copper creek brass that I've resized then expand the necks on a mandral and retrim down to the shoulder neck junction they seem to chamber ok.
I'm trying to figure out if I have a issue with the dies/setup or if something happened and there's a issue with the chamber SAC did.
I hae the same bright ring on the shoulder.. Not worried about it really... You're chambering issues are likely due to needing to turn the brass down on the shoulder more and bumping the shoulders back a bit more as well... In order for me to get a good clean closure on sized brass I have to bump the shoulders .003"-.004" from fired brass dimensions... Not sure why, possibly because I'm using a 7saum type a die...but I'm not sure..
i also turned my necks down slightly more to .014" for more clearance. Works the brass more but I like the piece of mind.
i also turned my necks down slightly more to .014" for more clearance. Works the brass more but I like the piece of mind.
Think that is about the same coal Pat is shooting the 139 at
HEADSPACE.. I bet if u took a few thou off the bottom of your sizing die it would work like magic!
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As Bob said, or the top of your shell holder.
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I would agree with HS if the OP has cam over on his press and not being able to bump back at all.
Got my GAP 6.5 SAUM about 6 weeks ago but have not had much time to play with it- Have about 100 rounds through it so far, started with Berger 130 VLDs and 62.9 grains of H1000 kissing the lands was shooting under 1/2 MOA. Worked up some 139 Scenar's tonight and I think I found my load to settle on. Its amazing how much fun this rifle is to shoot- feels like a BB gun compared to my 338 Lapua- Elk season cannot get here soon enough!
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I don't think it's headspace. My RCBS MIC gauge is still not here yet but My buddy let me borrow his Hornady headspace comparator set yesterday . Granted I don't have 100% faith in this system as I was getting variations measuring the same case multiple times by a couple thousandths, but the stuff I sized that's still not loaded vs what I loaded and fired today is .012 avg shorter headspace. I've definitely pushed the shoulder back way too far on this go through the sizer. I measured 19 cases vs the 20 I fired today and they were all .01X shorter on the headspace gauge.
I set my trimmer up to .014 and turned the necks down to the shoulder this morning and they chamber ok with the ones I loaded today . Still some slight resistance trying to close the bolt. I'm hoping this was just a result of the brass needing turned down a little more than initially done.
I'll resize and load tomorrow and report back if I have any lingering issues.
"X Hunter" # 2 at work last week.
"X Hunter" # 2 at work last week.
Amazing view Pat! You are an EXTREMELY fortunate man!
Great picture my friend .....
Is there any word on factory brass???
"X Hunter" # 2 at work last week.
Whaaaaat? In the background - no smog - no fwy traffic jams - no moron with saggy pants "photo-bombing" your px. You photo-shopped that px right?
This is "Never-never Land" right? It's only a fictional place - existing only in the minds of dreamers.
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I would have to agree . How do you like your Liece bino and how well doe their ballistics formula working with the 4s.
Are those the new Leica Geovid, HD-B, 10x42 bino's? How do you like that "all in one", do it all - bino?
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quick question. What powder charge of H1000 should I use to fire form my new brass with berger 140's. just My EX just arrived at my FFL and I am picking it up on Friday. I plan to head to the range this weekend.
Thanks,
Brian
Thanks,
Brian
Check out the loads for the 6.5 SAUM. It should be there. 60-61 grains
I really like them....they work VERY well.
No, but I want to, Pat used one to drop a Griz bear in Alaska with a 260 Rem, I was impressed. could only be better 350 FPS faster
Tikka 6.5 SAUM
I got my re-barrel job back last week and thought I'd post the results here.
I had a Tikka 300 WSM re-barreled in 6.5 SAUM with a 24", #3 contour barrel, 8.70 twist. Chamber was cut by Francis Kuehl, who did a phenomenal job (more on that later).
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg"/></a>
I decided not to flute the barrel to start with, but may do that later. I went back and forth on a brake, decided not to. After shooting it, I'm glad I didn't brake it. Although a brake would make this gun very light on recoil, I found it to be surprisingly easy to shoot and I'd rather not deal with the muzzle blast. I had them sandblast it, with no Cerakote. I will Cerakote it later when I decide what to do with flute/no flutes.
The Mountain Tactical stock adds a pound, as does the #3 barrel over the OEM Tikka. Complete carry weight with scope and mount is 9 1/2 lbs.
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg"/></a>
I am using Copper Creek prepped brass, not fire formed yet. I necked the CC brass down to .291 for test loads. I may go with a .292 bushing for a little lighter neck tension. My test loads ended up with run out 2-12, not unusual at all considering the prep work.
I'm shooting 140 Accubonds, as I'd like one load for lopes/deer/elk.
Load development went something like this:
4 shots of crap load to get on paper and rough zero my scope – 1.2”
3 shot group of 60.5 gr H1000 – 1.1” COAL 2.775, OOL 2.235 (.015 jump)
3 shot group of 61 gr H1000 – 1.2”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 - .3”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 - .4”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 @ 600y = 7” group
Shot 7 rounds on steel at various distances from 300 to 600 to make myself feel good, and did not miss. Hit a ½ MOA target at 550y, twice. Done! Zero, load workup, verify drop and practice in 26 rounds total. All with brass that has no right so shoot any less than 1 MOA. Love it! I have no doubt that it will shoot much better with fire formed brass - will post those results later.
My fire-formed brass is coming out of the chamber with a neck run out of less than 1. Most are zero.
I'm getting right at 3000 fps (verified at 600y on paper) with 61.5gr and the 140 Accubonds.
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg"/></a>
I am glad that (as mentioned in my previous post) I modified my Tikka mag. Although my 140 Accubond load would fit, if I wanted to shoot 140 Hybrids they might not...it would be close.
I got my re-barrel job back last week and thought I'd post the results here.
I had a Tikka 300 WSM re-barreled in 6.5 SAUM with a 24", #3 contour barrel, 8.70 twist. Chamber was cut by Francis Kuehl, who did a phenomenal job (more on that later).
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_225532_623.jpg"/></a>
I decided not to flute the barrel to start with, but may do that later. I went back and forth on a brake, decided not to. After shooting it, I'm glad I didn't brake it. Although a brake would make this gun very light on recoil, I found it to be surprisingly easy to shoot and I'd rather not deal with the muzzle blast. I had them sandblast it, with no Cerakote. I will Cerakote it later when I decide what to do with flute/no flutes.
The Mountain Tactical stock adds a pound, as does the #3 barrel over the OEM Tikka. Complete carry weight with scope and mount is 9 1/2 lbs.
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_225725_407.jpg"/></a>
I am using Copper Creek prepped brass, not fire formed yet. I necked the CC brass down to .291 for test loads. I may go with a .292 bushing for a little lighter neck tension. My test loads ended up with run out 2-12, not unusual at all considering the prep work.
I'm shooting 140 Accubonds, as I'd like one load for lopes/deer/elk.
Load development went something like this:
4 shots of crap load to get on paper and rough zero my scope – 1.2”
3 shot group of 60.5 gr H1000 – 1.1” COAL 2.775, OOL 2.235 (.015 jump)
3 shot group of 61 gr H1000 – 1.2”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 - .3”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 - .4”
3 shot group of 61.5 gr H1000 @ 600y = 7” group
Shot 7 rounds on steel at various distances from 300 to 600 to make myself feel good, and did not miss. Hit a ½ MOA target at 550y, twice. Done! Zero, load workup, verify drop and practice in 26 rounds total. All with brass that has no right so shoot any less than 1 MOA. Love it! I have no doubt that it will shoot much better with fire formed brass - will post those results later.
My fire-formed brass is coming out of the chamber with a neck run out of less than 1. Most are zero.
I'm getting right at 3000 fps (verified at 600y on paper) with 61.5gr and the 140 Accubonds.
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_230106_501.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s88.photobucket.com/user/gittings55/media/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/gittings55/Tikka%2065%20SAUM/IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140909_230053_094.jpg"/></a>
I am glad that (as mentioned in my previous post) I modified my Tikka mag. Although my 140 Accubond load would fit, if I wanted to shoot 140 Hybrids they might not...it would be close.
Never mind. Got through the entire thread and found my answer.
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Very nice. My Tikka .300 wsm is in their shop right now. I went back and forth on whether to install a brake also, and also decided not to. Your experience sounds like its a good way to run a hunter, Dustin had the same advice. The bead blasting came out looking good. Looks like it'll be driving tacks with fireformed brass.
Thanks waveslayer,
It's my first time necking down and fire forming my brass so I wasn't sure if it needed to be a lighter load or just run the same amount of powder. I will start at 60grains and go from there.
I have about 100 rounds on my 6.5 SAUM- when can I expect to see an increase in FPS? How much will it increase? Is it enough gain where a new accuracy node can be found or is everyone backing off powder charges until your getting the same velocities you have settled on while doing load developments the first 100 rounds or so?
Here is a picture from the other day, sure is a pleasure to shoot!
Here is a picture from the other day, sure is a pleasure to shoot!
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+1 on this. Anyone heard anything?
Nope ... Last heard was still late this year to early next at minimum.
found 220 once fired factory rem brass the other day a guy had that doesn't load... Had to talk him outta them. Grin !
found 220 once fired factory rem brass the other day a guy had that doesn't load... Had to talk him outta them. Grin !
Rumor I heard was we won't be able to get out hands on it till 2016.
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Well I was just thinking today it seems like that both Remmy and Wincherster stopped making rifle brass because it seems like a life time since i've seen brass for my 7WSM so I'm not holding my breath for this caliber. That's way I made mine a switch barrel.
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