223, 224 Valk, & 6ARC for sure. Might also try it in 22GT, but there are already a lot of good Temp stable options in the GT
Edit: This might be worth a try for 308 as well.
- Thread starter deepsix++
- Start date
Edit: This might be worth a try for 308 as well.
Roger that. I use 6.5staball in my 6CM and it works pretty well so I was just curious how this newer stuff actually worked for velocity and ES. I guess it could be a replacement for the TAC I use for 223 as well, so if you could or if someone else could give us some feedback about it, that would be much appreciated. Thanks
+1.
Mk262 clone load needs a decent amount of energy to get it over 2700fps, so in real-world use will be intersting to see how this stuff works. TAC is a bit faster than MATCH on the burn chart, not sure what that means.
I'll be interested to see how Match does in the 75-77gr .223 department. StaBall had loads listed for 77gr .223 that made it seem like a good contender, but real-world testing showed it to be a bit of a flop from what I've seen. Not that I was all that surprised, what with StaBall being aimed at 6.5C and other short action sized cases, but 8208 does a decent job from 223-308 sized cases, so maybe Match will cover a wider range of case sizes/calibers like TAC or 8208 does.
Interested to see how the HD does in the 300WM. What's your current go-to powder(s)/load(s), for reference?
I'd be looking to use it in the larger 338LM case, but that might be a bridge too far to expect it to perform well across that wide a range of case sizes/calibers.
Yeah, if it would give the same speeds as TAC vs pressure or better maybe, and lower SD/ES it would be a winner for .223
for years its always been h1000 , and perennially its been hard to find even before 2020 , so I'm hoping we'll see 8lb HD for sale soon , I have been shooting just the 208 gn bullets but recently switched to 225eldm, the node is 2800fps and I'm hoping HD can get to that .
I ordered some HD to try in my 338 lapua. If it works out might be a replacement powder for imr8133 I’m currently using.
Yeah, Hodgdon is weird about how some of their powders are promoted. They pushed out Staball loads for cartridges where it clearly didn’t belong (like 223, 6 ARC, etc) like they were trying to trick people into using more of it.
While at the same time they still publish very few loads for Lever, which is excellent in a whole bunch of cases, but they act like they don’t want people to use it. I wonder if they’d have even published 6 ARC data for it if the wildcat community hadn’t been using it so much in the same thing already.
Got a couple pounds of the match to try in dasher and br. Xbr and varget have been good but interested to see if the claims of extra speed are true.
post up your load data here when you get the chance , love to see a ladder test velocities
Damnit. I just went 3 weeks ago and got 8lbs of Lever to use for my 6mm arc.... I didnt want it because of the temp stability, but wanted it for the speed... and now this is released... fml.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Lever will most likely remain top dog for speed in the ARC. Work up a safe Lever load now while it’s cold. Then check it again in the heat of summer. I use factory 108 Ammo as a control when doing this to ensure powder temp fps change isn’t skewed by barrel speed up. Temp stability of Lever isn’t as bad as many claim in my experience, at least not in Valk & ARC.
My Staball Match order shipped today. I’ll be trying it in the ARC first, but honestly I’m thinking it might be a bit to fast for heavies in the ARC. If that proves to be true then it should be good in 223.
I’ve seen a few people ask about match with 22GT & I doubt this is a good fit except maybe with light varmint bullets. I say that because 6.5 Staball works well speed wise in the 22GT.
This is the first shot in a new 24” 7T 22GT barrel with a mild load of 37.2gr 6.5 Staball & 90 SMK. Case fill is 92.5% and speed is there. Staball Match is probably to fast for 22GT.
Keep me posted on here how it does with the arc.
Im waiting on my bolt for my savage to get bushed, but prior to sending that off, I was set to test 30.4 of lever with the 105, it was chrono'd at 2769 fps out of my 18" savage.
The hodgdon website shows the match powder max at 27'ish at 2600fps with a 103
I gotta agree with 357max - this stuff isn't going to match or beat Lever. Lever is still tops for speed in this and a whole bunch of other cartridges; you can use it in a lot of stuff you've probably not even considered yet. What do you load for, maybe I can point out a few for you?
<Looks at 300 pounds of powder on hand>
I can't wait to try this in five years.
I can't wait to try this in five years.
don't you use lever in 308 sub sonic loads ?
Noooo... not me. It's great for highest velocity in some full power 308 loads. IMO it seems like it'd be a really poor choice in subs, but I've honestly never tried that so I won't speculate too much.
That makes more sense. I guess they both have cowboy/western sounding names; I get it.
You had me wondering who was loading subs with Lever, lol.
Got the first rounds of match loaded for this coming weekend.
I'll be adding loads to this during the week.
First loads are 223W bolt gun. 26" Bart 8T Chambered by SAC on ARC Nuke G2. New rifle so had to find lands for starters.
Lighter projectiles will go head to head Staball Match vs Accurate 2520
Heavies will be Match vs 2520 vs Lever
Edit: Update 1/22/23 Fired all 223W bolt gun loads today. I think there is some interesting info to tease out of the data.
Short version is Match looks like a winner for 223.
Temp was 41 with light rain & I'm at see level. Forgot my Kestral.
The 2520 was just slightly faster (18fps avg) with the 77gr pills, but that flipped with the heavies. Match was 32fps faster, had better SD, & groups.
equal to or better speed than 2520, but Temp stable. Hell yeah this is good.
I used 2520 in Gordon's to figure all these Match loads out. Worked pretty well.
Reference case volume h2o 1 x fired measured on FX120i
IVI 223 = 30.46
Win 5.56 = 30.94
PMC 223 = 31.46
IMI 5.56 = 31.2
Sig 223 = 31.76
All 223 loads using virgin IVI 223 brass with Ruag primers. FYI - The primed IVI brass weighs 101gr vs primed 1 x fired IMI brass at 95gr
Fired in this rifle all brass grew .0035 at the shoulders. FYI - The Ruag primers in this IVI brass are soft as butter. Keep that in mind when looking at brass pics. All fired IVI primers look the exact same, with some flow around the pin. Bottom to top of all ladders with Vit 135, Match, 2520, & Lever all look identical. Primer flow is not typical on ARc actions so this had me suspecting they use a softer primer in their 223 brass.
Win 5.56 I used to zero scope next to one of the IVI's. Both shot today.
Full stroke with a Harvey De-primer confirmed my suspicion (this has never happened before). I'll have to de-prime this stuff on the press.
See if you can tell low loads vs high? I cant & never had any indication of pressure with any of the loads shot today.
77RDF loaded 2.438/1.969
Staball Match
25.3gr - 2926 sd 13.4 group .801"
25.6gr - 2965 / 13.0 / .350"
25.9gr - 3000 / 2.4 / shot 2 @ wrong target
Accurate 2520
25.3 - 2927 / 10.9 / .081"
25.6 - 2975 / 13.7 / .327"
25.9 - 3007 / 7.5 / .350"
77TMK @2.433/1.985
Match
25.3 - 2907 / 25.7 / .960"
25.6 - 2951 / 9.8 / .664"
25.9 - 2982 / 11.2 / .430"
2520
25.3 - 2934 / 6.2 / .302"
25.6 - 2977 / 6.0 / .403"
25.9 - 3019 / 18.5 / .631" Group includes 2 RDF from Match 25.9 load @ 3000
88 ELDM @2.500/1.934
Staball Match
24.1 - 2777 / 4.7 / .385"
24.4 - 2801 / 12.4 / 1.052"
24.7 - 2847 / 4.8 / .478"
Accurate 2520 each group had first round flyer, weird
24.1 - 2743 / 13.6 / .977"
24.4 - 2769 / 5.1 / 1.342"
24.7 - 2818 / 10.0 / 1.276"
Lever - This is typical of what I see with Lever. Charges go up & SD comes down. I will be going at least 1 maybe 2 steps higher.
24.8 - 2794 / 14.0 / 1.110"
25.1 - 2832 / 10.9 / .691"
25.4 - 2855 / 6.2 / .582"
Vit 135 69 RMR loaded 2.25" for AR. Shot in Bolt to get 1x brass
24.5 - 3117 / 10.1 / .784" 10 shots
Ran out of time today so no AR data till next weekend. Just function checked the new 10.5" Ejecting Win 5.56 @ 1:00. Need to pull hand guard & close GB way down.
Added AR 223W loads
1st up is 10.5" Craddock 8T
Staball Match 73 ELD @2.292
24.8
25.1
25.4
25.7
26.0
Hornady 75 BTHP @2.282
25.7
Vit N135 73 ELD @2.292
23.4
23.7
24.0
Hornady 75 BTHP @2.282
24.0
RMR 69 @2.250
24.5
Tac Vmax 60 @2.292
27.3
27.6
Lever
28.6
28.9
AR 223W 8T 18" Proof CF Edit: update 1/28/23
MK 262 Mod 1 clone attempt
Comparison load - Black Hills White box 5.56 Lot #BLH04L061-001 Contract #W911SF-04-D-0007 (brass is WCC 04)
2721 SD 19.5 no group data cause it was way high after scope sight in @50
77SMK no canalure @2.253 Bolt lock
Staball Match
25.1 2772 / 3.6 / .822" No bolt lock on empty
25.4 2804 / 11.5 / .819" No bolt lock, no swipes, no flow
Accurate 2520
25.1 2735 / 6.0 / .464" Bolt lock
25.4 2786 / 10.0 / .175" Bolt lock
TAC
25.0 2801 / 6.0 / .686" Bolt lock
25.3 2827 / 3.7 / .511" Bolt lock
Lever
25.9 2814 / 10.8 / .653" No bolt lock
26.2 2829 / 9.5 / .649" No bolt lock
77RDF @2.292
Staball Match
25.1 Did not shoot
25.4 Did not shoot
25.7 Did not shoot
Lever
25.7 2731 / 4.5 / .305" opened block 3 clicks & still no lock
26.0 2747 / 18.8 / .439" 2 more clicks = bolt lock. No swipes, no flow.
Try
26.3
26.7
Bonus try
73 ELDM @2.292/1.827
Match
25.6 Did not shoot
25.9 Did not shoot
26.2 Did not shoot
Vit N135
23.4 2825 / 23.4 / .479" bolt lock
23.7 2859 / 8.6 / .735" bolt lock, swipes
24.0 2877 / 8.1 / .336" blanked 1 primer, to hot
Lever
26.4 2857 / 15.1 / .804" bolt lock
26.7 2877 / 14.7 / .337" bolt lock, no primer flow, no swipes
Try
27.0
27.3
I'll be adding loads to this during the week.
First loads are 223W bolt gun. 26" Bart 8T Chambered by SAC on ARC Nuke G2. New rifle so had to find lands for starters.
Lighter projectiles will go head to head Staball Match vs Accurate 2520
Heavies will be Match vs 2520 vs Lever
Edit: Update 1/22/23 Fired all 223W bolt gun loads today. I think there is some interesting info to tease out of the data.
Short version is Match looks like a winner for 223.
Temp was 41 with light rain & I'm at see level. Forgot my Kestral.
The 2520 was just slightly faster (18fps avg) with the 77gr pills, but that flipped with the heavies. Match was 32fps faster, had better SD, & groups.
equal to or better speed than 2520, but Temp stable. Hell yeah this is good.
I used 2520 in Gordon's to figure all these Match loads out. Worked pretty well.
Reference case volume h2o 1 x fired measured on FX120i
IVI 223 = 30.46
Win 5.56 = 30.94
PMC 223 = 31.46
IMI 5.56 = 31.2
Sig 223 = 31.76
All 223 loads using virgin IVI 223 brass with Ruag primers. FYI - The primed IVI brass weighs 101gr vs primed 1 x fired IMI brass at 95gr
Fired in this rifle all brass grew .0035 at the shoulders. FYI - The Ruag primers in this IVI brass are soft as butter. Keep that in mind when looking at brass pics. All fired IVI primers look the exact same, with some flow around the pin. Bottom to top of all ladders with Vit 135, Match, 2520, & Lever all look identical. Primer flow is not typical on ARc actions so this had me suspecting they use a softer primer in their 223 brass.
Win 5.56 I used to zero scope next to one of the IVI's. Both shot today.
Full stroke with a Harvey De-primer confirmed my suspicion (this has never happened before). I'll have to de-prime this stuff on the press.
See if you can tell low loads vs high? I cant & never had any indication of pressure with any of the loads shot today.
77RDF loaded 2.438/1.969
Staball Match
25.3gr - 2926 sd 13.4 group .801"
25.6gr - 2965 / 13.0 / .350"
25.9gr - 3000 / 2.4 / shot 2 @ wrong target
Accurate 2520
25.3 - 2927 / 10.9 / .081"
25.6 - 2975 / 13.7 / .327"
25.9 - 3007 / 7.5 / .350"
77TMK @2.433/1.985
Match
25.3 - 2907 / 25.7 / .960"
25.6 - 2951 / 9.8 / .664"
25.9 - 2982 / 11.2 / .430"
2520
25.3 - 2934 / 6.2 / .302"
25.6 - 2977 / 6.0 / .403"
25.9 - 3019 / 18.5 / .631" Group includes 2 RDF from Match 25.9 load @ 3000
88 ELDM @2.500/1.934
Staball Match
24.1 - 2777 / 4.7 / .385"
24.4 - 2801 / 12.4 / 1.052"
24.7 - 2847 / 4.8 / .478"
Accurate 2520 each group had first round flyer, weird
24.1 - 2743 / 13.6 / .977"
24.4 - 2769 / 5.1 / 1.342"
24.7 - 2818 / 10.0 / 1.276"
Lever - This is typical of what I see with Lever. Charges go up & SD comes down. I will be going at least 1 maybe 2 steps higher.
24.8 - 2794 / 14.0 / 1.110"
25.1 - 2832 / 10.9 / .691"
25.4 - 2855 / 6.2 / .582"
Vit 135 69 RMR loaded 2.25" for AR. Shot in Bolt to get 1x brass
24.5 - 3117 / 10.1 / .784" 10 shots
Ran out of time today so no AR data till next weekend. Just function checked the new 10.5" Ejecting Win 5.56 @ 1:00. Need to pull hand guard & close GB way down.
Added AR 223W loads
1st up is 10.5" Craddock 8T
Staball Match 73 ELD @2.292
24.8
25.1
25.4
25.7
26.0
Hornady 75 BTHP @2.282
25.7
Vit N135 73 ELD @2.292
23.4
23.7
24.0
Hornady 75 BTHP @2.282
24.0
RMR 69 @2.250
24.5
Tac Vmax 60 @2.292
27.3
27.6
Lever
28.6
28.9
AR 223W 8T 18" Proof CF Edit: update 1/28/23
MK 262 Mod 1 clone attempt
Comparison load - Black Hills White box 5.56 Lot #BLH04L061-001 Contract #W911SF-04-D-0007 (brass is WCC 04)
2721 SD 19.5 no group data cause it was way high after scope sight in @50
77SMK no canalure @2.253 Bolt lock
Staball Match
25.1 2772 / 3.6 / .822" No bolt lock on empty
25.4 2804 / 11.5 / .819" No bolt lock, no swipes, no flow
Accurate 2520
25.1 2735 / 6.0 / .464" Bolt lock
25.4 2786 / 10.0 / .175" Bolt lock
TAC
25.0 2801 / 6.0 / .686" Bolt lock
25.3 2827 / 3.7 / .511" Bolt lock
Lever
25.9 2814 / 10.8 / .653" No bolt lock
26.2 2829 / 9.5 / .649" No bolt lock
77RDF @2.292
Staball Match
25.1 Did not shoot
25.4 Did not shoot
25.7 Did not shoot
Lever
25.7 2731 / 4.5 / .305" opened block 3 clicks & still no lock
26.0 2747 / 18.8 / .439" 2 more clicks = bolt lock. No swipes, no flow.
Try
26.3
26.7
Bonus try
73 ELDM @2.292/1.827
Match
25.6 Did not shoot
25.9 Did not shoot
26.2 Did not shoot
Vit N135
23.4 2825 / 23.4 / .479" bolt lock
23.7 2859 / 8.6 / .735" bolt lock, swipes
24.0 2877 / 8.1 / .336" blanked 1 primer, to hot
Lever
26.4 2857 / 15.1 / .804" bolt lock
26.7 2877 / 14.7 / .337" bolt lock, no primer flow, no swipes
Try
27.0
27.3
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The gun powder council awaits your findings , go now and test your loads
Could it be because you were pushing velocities a bit high?
It'll be interesting to see how these powders behave. Ball powders always meter within 0.1-0.2 for me on my progressive. So if I could make precision ammo on my progressive that would be amazing.
Damn. Your AA2520 starting loads are my top end 2520 loads to mimic Mk262
Good luck and be safe!
Your at std AR mag length though correct?Damn. Your AA2520 starting loads are my top end 2520 loads to mimic Mk262
Good luck and be safe!
I need to get those 77’s near 3000 for tac class.
26” SAC barrel On a ARC nuke.
Yeah correct. My Mk12 Mod 0, suppressed. With my steel mags I can get to 2.3" OAL. Although 77's at 3000 sounds wonderfully flat shooting.
I have experience with the StaBall6.5 only in the 243Win, 7mm SS, 6.5x47 Lapua, 308 Win, 6.5 PRC, 6.8 Western, and 300WSM. In my oinion it’s a little slow for the 308 Win, but in general works really well in the other cartridges mentioned. Seems clean burning, predictable in its behavior, meaning mo overpressure surprises, and in the 243Win yields the highest MVs I have ever seen. Did some temp stability testing in the 243Win using 100 gr bullets and between 50-95F have not seen more than a 10-15 FPS rise in MV. Not hard to get 0.5-0.75 MOA accuracy from it either. I have not been able to secure StaBall HD or StaBall Match powder.
Mr. Hodgdon passed away yesterday. Seemed like a relavent thread.
Tested 6br with a 108 Berger. 31.7 is where it seems to be a good spot. Going to shoot for groups tomorrow. I was at 2820, which isn’t that fast compared to what I can get with xbr.
32.2 is about where I stopped after having heavy bolt lift.
Shot two ladder test starting from 29.5-32.2. Bottom group was 31.4-32.2. Just off the groups it appears promising. O and these were shot at midnight using light from my vehicle, so not the best conditions for making groups.
32.2 is about where I stopped after having heavy bolt lift.
Shot two ladder test starting from 29.5-32.2. Bottom group was 31.4-32.2. Just off the groups it appears promising. O and these were shot at midnight using light from my vehicle, so not the best conditions for making groups.
Attachments
still good groups mang
Got new information from another forum that Powder Valley has StaBall Match and HD in stock. I bordered 8 LBS of SB Match.
I got out to the range today and did a ladder test with the new HD in my
300 Winchester magnum
bullet : 225 eldm
Coal : uhhh barely fits in AICS mag
barre length 26"
round count on barrel : 400
twist 1:9
I experience NO heavy bolt lift even at 77.8 , no pressure signs . the official load data on the data center tops at 78. so you might be able to go a bit higher if you really need more speed
300 Winchester magnum
bullet : 225 eldm
Coal : uhhh barely fits in AICS mag
barre length 26"
round count on barrel : 400
twist 1:9
I experience NO heavy bolt lift even at 77.8 , no pressure signs . the official load data on the data center tops at 78. so you might be able to go a bit higher if you really need more speed
What brass?
This is quite interesting data on the SBHD. On the Hodgdon 2023 burn rate chart this powder is shown to be in the Retumbo burn range. I wonder if you would agree with that? It is also promoted as temp stable.
Along the temp stable theme I have done some preliminary testing of SB6.5 in the 243Win, which were surprising and gratifying. I initially did a speed ladder test in a 243Win uding a 24” 1:7 twist Proof barrel and Peterson SRP brass going from 41-50 gr SB6.5. Speeds measured using Lab Radar went from 2964- 3548 fps at 50 gr where I started to see ejector marks but primer still tight. Then did three shots using 48gr at 59F with average 3392 fps. Repeated the 3 shots using the same powder, charge (48gr), SRP brass and 100 gr SBD2 bullet at 93F after leaving both ammo and rifle for 1 hr in the sun, for an aberage of 3398 fps. Repeated the test using same components except a 105 gr ICBM bullet at 93F and got an average 3384 fps. Did a ladder test with a 243 Win model 700ADL 22” 1:10 Rem from 44.5-52gr SB6.5 in 90F ambient temp and got speeds ranging from 3278 (44.5gr) to 3801 (52 gr) at which point started to see increased bolt lift effort. At 50.5gr (3663 fps) SB6.5 saw no pressure signs. I find that the SB6.5 is quite temp stable in the temp ranges tested. Did not use LRP brass, and anyone wishing to try this powder should do a careful speed ladder first to define the powder charge range that is safe for their gun. What was comforting was that there were no unexpected surprises. Test dates were 7/3/22-7/4/22.
Very sad to hear that. Left behind a great legacy though. May God be with him.
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Hopefully someone tries it in 300PRC too. I’m using N170 right now.
My staball Match 8# came from PV yesterday. Looking forward to loading up some 223, 22BR and 6BR to test. Looking forward to results
Thank you for the info... Been interested in learning more about this powder in .300 WM, especially with the 225 ELDM.
I managed to grab 2 pounds of Retumbo over a year ago... But I've never opened it. I didn't figure there was any reason to test it if I can't get anymore of it. Nice to see I have more options.
What brass were you using?
Mike
Staball Match powder?
Yup, after doing some testing I don’t think this will be a replacement for people shooting varget. It wasn’t bad but I did not see an increase in velocity and my groups weren’t as good as with varget.
What brass? What primer? What coal? Tell us dammit!
Norma
ya keep us posted we'd all like to see a ladder test with the rifle details
Norma brass . btw across the board I have found that 225 eld's like the 2800fps node , try 75 grains of retumbo , 74 of h1000( if you have any ) and 77 of SBHD
I didn't think brass and primer really played a factor , norma brass , fed large rifle magnum primer , COAL is what ever the Long action AICS mag is , there is literally .01 clearance between the tip and the mag wall
Updated post #124 with Staball Match Data for 223W.
I was in a hurry so not my @ my best. The JAllen is going to take a little getting used to. Probably going to get the MKM grip for it.
www.snipershide.com
I was in a hurry so not my @ my best. The JAllen is going to take a little getting used to. Probably going to get the MKM grip for it.
!!! new Hodgedon powder new load data Update 1/21 !!!!!
What are you planning to load with it? 223, 224 Valk, & 6ARC for sure. Might also try it in 22GT, but there are already a lot of good Temp stable options in the GT Edit: This might be worth a try for 308 as well.
www.snipershide.com 
