ATF is now picking a fight with Texas... So now Texas is suing the ATF... I hope more states join in, and we completely DEREGULATE ALL suppressors from the NFA.
Suppressors New Law in Texas Deregulates Suppressors
- Thread starter Longshot231
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Uhhhhh....yeah. wishful thinking. 100% not gonna deregulate shit from the NFA.
Yep, more likely this administration would start bombng Texas.
Sad but true that once it's there, they aren't going to give up any $ or ability to regulate you. I feel sorry for people who now think they can ignore federal law.
This fight was played out and lost in Kansas already. Couple of guys played the Kansas state suppressor game and were sentenced to FPMITA prison by the ATF and the rulling basically struck down these state NFA flaunting rules. Texas did it as a virtue signal but for the end users, no state will be able to protect you from the Feds.
Yeah Ken Paxton (AG) is a complete tool. Literally every week he sues the administration with lawsuits that are non-starters, that will go mostly nowhere and wastes taxpayer money. Looks great in headlines but does nothing for Texans. Meanwhile every time it drops close to 32 degrees here, our power grid gets iffy.
Don't hold your breath on this one either.
Don't hold your breath on this one either.
Don't believe that power grid is iffy bullshit. That's some horseshit the mainstream media wants to push to make Texas look bad. Our power grid is fine and more improvements are being made all the time to keep up with population growth and demand. You just can't plan, design, contract and build much in 12 months especially when materials and components are in some cases 8-12-16 months lead time.
Also I'm not a Paxton fan but he has fuckall to do with the Texas power grid.
Actually he does have a lot to do with it. He does enforce and go after companies that do not comply with mandates to maintain operating standards, beyond what ERCOT and other regulatory agencies do when rules and laws are violated. But prosecuting white collar crime is never popular politically as it doesn't gas light the base any longer. And we're in an election cycle where he has three opponents including a Bush. So Ken's doing nothing but pandering to the base with a meaningless lawsuit and paying heed to Abbot's directives.
I do agree with you on the growth/infrastructure issues and trying to solve them in 12 months. Can't be done but it's not like we haven't had a decade since the last incident. There's the rub. They did nothing to improve things over the course of ten years and it smacked them in the face again.
I have friends who work on the inside, at natural gas facilities, and our system is pretty fragile hearing first hand the difficulties they were having from a physical and political standpoint. ERCOT released a warning earlier this week there could be outages. That's not the mainstream media that's our own regulatory agency that "manages" the power grid. I lost power for five days straight last year in weather most Northerners don't even bat an eyelash at. I've since spent several thousand installing a backup system. Having lived in Florida and through many a hurricane, I've been without electric grid power for weeks so I'm no stranger. It still wasn't a pleasant experience.
And I don't buy the mainstream media feeding us all bullshit stories either. Do you have to siphon? Sure. They simply don't, for the most part, operate that way and there are far too many good sources for news. Unfortunately we all feed off of confirmation bias and the biggies have become more about entertainment and eyeballs vs. educating, informing and shining a light on issues that affect us daily. Dollars. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Journalism is an integral part of our democracy and many journalists over the course of the history of this country have made sacrifices to preserve it both here and abroad.
But getting off on a tangent so my apologies. I'm sure we both want a high quality of life in our state and suppressors more readily available!
I do agree with you on the growth/infrastructure issues and trying to solve them in 12 months. Can't be done but it's not like we haven't had a decade since the last incident. There's the rub. They did nothing to improve things over the course of ten years and it smacked them in the face again.
I have friends who work on the inside, at natural gas facilities, and our system is pretty fragile hearing first hand the difficulties they were having from a physical and political standpoint. ERCOT released a warning earlier this week there could be outages. That's not the mainstream media that's our own regulatory agency that "manages" the power grid. I lost power for five days straight last year in weather most Northerners don't even bat an eyelash at. I've since spent several thousand installing a backup system. Having lived in Florida and through many a hurricane, I've been without electric grid power for weeks so I'm no stranger. It still wasn't a pleasant experience.
And I don't buy the mainstream media feeding us all bullshit stories either. Do you have to siphon? Sure. They simply don't, for the most part, operate that way and there are far too many good sources for news. Unfortunately we all feed off of confirmation bias and the biggies have become more about entertainment and eyeballs vs. educating, informing and shining a light on issues that affect us daily. Dollars. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Journalism is an integral part of our democracy and many journalists over the course of the history of this country have made sacrifices to preserve it both here and abroad.
But getting off on a tangent so my apologies. I'm sure we both want a high quality of life in our state and suppressors more readily available!
Cliff notes for those who are interested:
- Texas sued the ATF
- The DOJ/ATF filled a motion to dismiss
- Texas filed an amended complaint to render moot the objections
- The judge deemed the amended suit to have addressed the objections and is allowing the case to move forward
- Texas sued the ATF
- The DOJ/ATF filled a motion to dismiss
- Texas filed an amended complaint to render moot the objections
- The judge deemed the amended suit to have addressed the objections and is allowing the case to move forward
If this works, and more states follow suit with the EXACT same recipe, then eventually there will be no point in keeping them on the NFA registry at all. Incrementally, over time, making the NFA null and void. We need to be taking notes from the anti-gunners and how they've managed to get this far chipping away at the 2A... We just need to pull the UNO Reverse card on them, to remove gun control legislation laws...Slowly chipping away and staying consistent and loud and stop being complacent and giving in to mob stupidity and knee-jerk reactions by dumbass activists.
The pro-marijuana crowd has provided an effective blueprint. I don't see anyone from the pro-2A world that's eager to follow it, and that includes the guy I see in the mirror.
I'm pro-weed... I'm pro-freedom... Which blueprint are you referring to?
So let's say, hypothetically, Texas wins and all the materials must be mined, refined and machined in Texas, hinging on the no interstate commerce portion of the complaint.
Aluminum mines in Texas=0
Titanium mines in Texas=5
Nickel mines in Texas=1
Chromium mines in Texas=2
Cobalt mines in Texas=0 (it's usually a byproduct of mining other ores but Texas is not a source.)
Iron mines in Texas=82
Then you have to process all the raw materials into usable alloys and turn it into tubing, billet pieces, or powdered. From there they can be sintered in additive manufacturing, welded, milled, CNC'd, etc... None of that of course, is cheap when you limit to just what's available here in Texas. Not sure how many actual alloy refining facilities there are in Texas for the above metals and alloys. There are certainly a lot of mills and foundries that process refined but not sure if there are any that are in the actual formation of alloys. With Tesla, SpaceX, Blue Origin, NASA and others now in Texas, I suspect there may be a few or the industry as a whole is ramping up.
Then there's competition from other industries for the same raw materials. The alloy mills and processing facilities have to look at the market needs and where there's potential for greater financial returns. There is a microscopic demand for suppressors vs. say infrastructure piping for plants, oil pipelines and other industrial needs like turbines, military, private space companies, medical etc.... So yeah, somehow, some way, there's likely a way to get it done but at what cost? Who's going to buy a $20K suppressor?
As it is now, companies that make suppressors can pick and choose materials and manufacturing from across the country and around the globe to bring a product that's attainable. Hate to say it but the cobalt in your stellite baffles is likely mined elsewhere on the planet, refined in China and sold back to the U.S. China now controls 80% of the global supply of many rare earth elements, some of which are critical to our own national security.
I hope I'm really, really wrong. I think suppressors manufactured 100% here in Texas sounds great but thinking about the entire process you realize how difficult and costly it'll be. And that doesn't even touch on regulation and tracking of materials from mining through the build process. The "certification" for all of that will certainly come at an additional cost, probably far beyond the $200 we have to pay now. Manufacturers will have to prove it's all made right here.
Aluminum mines in Texas=0
Titanium mines in Texas=5
Nickel mines in Texas=1
Chromium mines in Texas=2
Cobalt mines in Texas=0 (it's usually a byproduct of mining other ores but Texas is not a source.)
Iron mines in Texas=82
Then you have to process all the raw materials into usable alloys and turn it into tubing, billet pieces, or powdered. From there they can be sintered in additive manufacturing, welded, milled, CNC'd, etc... None of that of course, is cheap when you limit to just what's available here in Texas. Not sure how many actual alloy refining facilities there are in Texas for the above metals and alloys. There are certainly a lot of mills and foundries that process refined but not sure if there are any that are in the actual formation of alloys. With Tesla, SpaceX, Blue Origin, NASA and others now in Texas, I suspect there may be a few or the industry as a whole is ramping up.
Then there's competition from other industries for the same raw materials. The alloy mills and processing facilities have to look at the market needs and where there's potential for greater financial returns. There is a microscopic demand for suppressors vs. say infrastructure piping for plants, oil pipelines and other industrial needs like turbines, military, private space companies, medical etc.... So yeah, somehow, some way, there's likely a way to get it done but at what cost? Who's going to buy a $20K suppressor?
As it is now, companies that make suppressors can pick and choose materials and manufacturing from across the country and around the globe to bring a product that's attainable. Hate to say it but the cobalt in your stellite baffles is likely mined elsewhere on the planet, refined in China and sold back to the U.S. China now controls 80% of the global supply of many rare earth elements, some of which are critical to our own national security.
I hope I'm really, really wrong. I think suppressors manufactured 100% here in Texas sounds great but thinking about the entire process you realize how difficult and costly it'll be. And that doesn't even touch on regulation and tracking of materials from mining through the build process. The "certification" for all of that will certainly come at an additional cost, probably far beyond the $200 we have to pay now. Manufacturers will have to prove it's all made right here.
I think you're digging way too deep into it. I think by "manufactured 100%" they are talking about from raw materials into a functional suppressor, not all the way down to base materials... Especially since you already pay taxes on purchasing those raw materials for manufacturing. But I could be wrong...
I definitely been accused of digging too deep before and I could be wrong but I thought the whole interstate commerce issue was the main hinge in regulating suppressors. The thought train sort of popped into my head as I'm dealing with nightmarish supply chain issues myself, especially when it comes to raw materials.
I like the concept but I just think it'll never be economically viable. Production and manufacturing is just too fractured and diffused globally and price competition would be too great to make a business case for producing it all in Texas.
Theoretically speaking if a suppressor "A" costs $500 to build, actual cost, using nationally or even globally sourced materials, yet costs double that to produce suppressor "B" of the same design in Texas, most are going to purchase A, pay the $200 stamp and pocket $300. Completely hypothetical but the competition for raw materials in-state and price competition out of state is going to be far severe to make it work.
Dunno, maybe one of the suppressor manufacturers can chime in with thoughts.
I like the concept but I just think it'll never be economically viable. Production and manufacturing is just too fractured and diffused globally and price competition would be too great to make a business case for producing it all in Texas.
Theoretically speaking if a suppressor "A" costs $500 to build, actual cost, using nationally or even globally sourced materials, yet costs double that to produce suppressor "B" of the same design in Texas, most are going to purchase A, pay the $200 stamp and pocket $300. Completely hypothetical but the competition for raw materials in-state and price competition out of state is going to be far severe to make it work.
Dunno, maybe one of the suppressor manufacturers can chime in with thoughts.
The one where advocates utilize civil disobedience in parallel with a PR campaign to win over a small majority of the general public and relentless lobbying at all levels of government to achieve steady incremental legislative gains. To some extent, it resembles the strategy utilized to make huge gains in CCW over the past two decades, but with a much bigger dose of "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me."
It's a high-risk game - there are still about 40,000 people serving time for marijuana-related crimes (some in states that have since legalized weed).
I agree with your consensus and plan. That would be a great way to proceed. Unfortunately, I think we need a slightly bigger (I.E. faster) push for national NFA deregulation of suppressors at the minimum. Something you can package as a "commons sense compromise" (words THEY like to use and hear) like the Hearing Protection Act wanted to do. It would make them untaxable (no more $200 stamp), and would still require a 4473 & NICS background check just like a gun. No more waiting period or extra costs involved. Honestly, if there was any way to get some actual PRO-GUN legislation passed under the radar of most libs/Dems, guised as bipartisan "common sense gun control" bargaining chip for something they want done.
That slope would be a wonderful one to start the slide on... Then next, SBR/SBS/AOW no longer on the registry... Then repeal the Hughes Amendment, then we start working on the NFA and then with the NFA no longer relevant, the ATF will no longer be relevant, since the A & T portions are basically already controlled by the FDA and regulated by state government boards. With no more legal loophole work-arounds necessary (thanks to the NFA elimination), FATD would be null and void. And then, the AFT will be essentially useless, because the enforcement of the current laws could easily be handled by the FBI. OR...And here's a wild thought... Maybe the AFT could just simple worry about enforcing laws against REAL CRIMINALS that are committing REAL CRIMES, instead of continually trying to make law-abiding citizens into criminals...
Just my thoughts on it.I think this could be achievable easily if someone just had big enough balls to reintroduce it, and then dangle the carrot in front of them, and not back off or give in like a spineless wimp (which is a HUGE problem the Republicans have had for decades). Offer them up something stupid and meaningless that they want passed, if they will agree to bipartisan vote on the HPA. Offer them something like more funding for researching the "8-toed boll weevil of the wet drylands of the northern and southern hemispheres", and say we'll only give you this, if you agree to bipartisan vote for the HPA to pass it, and it's still technically "gun control" and requires a background check, etc... etc... etc... (insert all the hot button talking points they love to hear) etc...
Play their own game and hands against them. Politics is dirty as fuck, and nobody comes out clean and washed on the other side. Might as well play just as dirty as they do, but now we actually get what we want instead of being the ones who constantly sacrifice, right?
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Hey @Mageever curious to know you're thoughts on this.
I'm sure Todd's done some research on this. I'd be curious to hear his and Mike's thoughts on this topic.
If this goes through... Then I see this being used by many other states, and then eventually the entire country.
An update - the ATF has filed a motion to dismiss the Texas AG's amended complaint, which is pretty standard. What's mind-blowing is the logic:
So the ATF is actually stating that suppressors aren't firearms:
... even though US code says that they are.
Hate to say it, but I agree with the ATF on this point
I'll admit to being dismissive of the new TX law based upon the complete lack of change brought about by older state-level dereg in MT and TN, but this is getting kinda spicy!
So the ATF is actually stating that suppressors aren't firearms:
... even though US code says that they are.
Hate to say it, but I agree with the ATF on this point
I'll admit to being dismissive of the new TX law based upon the complete lack of change brought about by older state-level dereg in MT and TN, but this is getting kinda spicy!
Its a great idea, but I don't think any Uni-party member will ever touch it. The supermajority in 2016 certainly didn't even consider trying to get anything they promised done.I agree with your consensus and plan. That would be a great way to proceed. Unfortunately, I think we need a slightly bigger (I.E. faster) push for national NFA deregulation of suppressors at the minimum. Something you can package as a "commons sense compromise" (words THEY like to use and hear) like the Hearing Protection Act wanted to do. It would make them untaxable (no more $200 stamp), and would still require a 4473 & NICS background check just like a gun. No more waiting period or extra costs involved. Honestly, if there was any way to get some actual PRO-GUN legislation passed under the radar of most libs/Dems, guised as bipartisan "common sense gun control" bargaining chip for something they want done.
That slope would be a wonderful one to start the slide on... Then next, SBR/SBS/AOW no longer on the registry... Then repeal the Hughes Amendment, then we start working on the NFA and then with the NFA no longer relevant, the ATF will no longer be relevant, since the A & T portions are basically already controlled by the FDA and regulated by state government boards. With no more legal loophole work-arounds necessary (thanks to the NFA elimination), FATD would be null and void. And then, the AFT will be essentially useless, because the enforcement of the current laws could easily be handled by the FBI. OR...And here's a wild thought... Maybe the AFT could just simple worry about enforcing laws against REAL CRIMINALS that are committing REAL CRIMES, instead of continually trying to make law-abiding citizens into criminals...
I think this could be achievable easily if someone just had big enough balls to reintroduce it, and then dangle the carrot in front of them, and not back off or give in like a spineless wimp (which is a HUGE problem the Republicans have had for decades). Offer them up something stupid and meaningless that they want passed, if they will agree to bipartisan vote on the HPA. Offer them something like more funding for researching the "8-toed boll weevil of the wet drylands of the northern and southern hemispheres", and say we'll only give you this, if you agree to bipartisan vote for the HPA to pass it, and it's still technically "gun control" and requires a background check, etc... etc... etc... (insert all the hot button talking points they love to hear) etc...
Play their own game and hands against them. Politics is dirty as fuck, and nobody comes out clean and washed on the other side. Might as well play just as dirty as they do, but now we actually get what we want instead of being the ones who constantly sacrifice, right?
That's because Paul Ryan was a weak spineless and nutless piece of human shit. He was also a RINO. After Trump tried to unilaterally ban bumpstocks in the wake of the Vegas false flag op, Paul Ryan's bitch-ass decided he would indefinitely shelf the HPA, despite having the votes (easily), "because feels..." about the "incident" in Vegas. My rights don't end where their feelings begin. I find myself leaning more and more Libertarian, with just how many POS RINOs there are in DC. At this point, I'd love to see a Rand Paul/ DeSantis run for Pres/VP + the clean-sweep SuperM in congress in November. That would be 1776 all over again...Telling the establishment swamprats to kiss our ass.
No politician cares about your rights. Including DeSantis.That's because Paul Ryan was a weak spineless and nutless piece of human shit. He was also a RINO. After Trump tried to unilaterally ban bumpstocks in the wake of the Vegas false flag op, Paul Ryan's bitch-ass decided he would indefinitely shelf the HPA, despite having the votes (easily), "because feels..." about the "incident" in Vegas. My rights don't end where their feelings begin. I find myself leaning more and more Libertarian, with just how many POS RINOs there are in DC. At this point, I'd love to see a Rand Paul/ DeSantis run for Pres/VP + the clean-sweep SuperM in congress in November. That would be 1776 all over again...Telling the establishment swamprats to kiss our ass.
Yeah, I know, but he would still be exponentially better than the openly-woke sick evil circus-clown fucktards that are in there now.
On top of that, if you want support from the majority of the thinking people in the gun industry you'd need to remove the 4473 requirement completely for suppressors. You don't need a separate title for the muffler on your truck, and a suppressor is no different. There is zero reason for requiring a 4473 or any sort of transfer at all for a suppressor, and it won't work as an appeasement or compromise for the left either; disappointing or pissing off both sides is not the way to get things done.
Common sense logic, like pointing out noise complaints around shooting ranges, and a large media campaign promoting these ideas, would be our best shot at getting this done. But personally I wouldn't support something like this if it still treats suppressors as firearms with transfers, 4473, or any sort of databases and tracking.
Seeing all the guys post here that they were waiting for the HPA to pass before getting their first suppressor made me laugh out loud.
Those are the same folks who believe Q is real, the Kraken was going to overturn the election, their liberal neighbors are lizard people, etc etc.
Or “I’m waiting to buy one until they get the wait times down”…
I’m sorry to acknowledge that logic is not a strong area for this portion of the gun community.
Those are also the same people that balk at calling or writing their congress critters. "Oh no, I'm not going to do that. My name will get put on a list and they are going to know where I live."
Don't laugh, I've heard it lots of times. They sure wanted the HPA to pass but would never lift a finger to contact a legislator to ask for their vote.
The same people that see my suppressors at the range ask me if it's legal. I tell them that if it wasn't legal, I wouldn't bring it out in full public view to advertise any criminal activity.
They usually say, "I would get one but I don't want my name attached to anything that the government can track."
When I ask them if they pay taxes, they look at me like I got two heads.
Seems like political theater, politicians passing do nothing laws so they can claim change.
The one I've heard several times from family members, no less, is "the ATF can come look in your safe anytime they want if you have suppressors without a warrant". That's not how any of this works
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If you really want to see their brains misfire, ask if they have a concealed carry license.
I argued with a SOT till I was blue in the face. He kept insisting that the ATF could come in my house at anytime to search it and examine the suppressors.
I asked him where he got his information. He said the the person giving him his training for the SOT license told him this.
I gave up arguing.
So it’s no wonder that people think the ATF should be granted omnipotent powers with special authority to violate the BOR.
Good point but I’ve heard the same arguments from people packing iron without a CCW.
I have a stupid question. I should be allowed at least one. What percentage of legally purchased and registered suppressors since 1934 can be located by the ATF?
The 4th amendment protects against unwarranted search an
Probably the vast majority since suppressor ownership was fairly minimal until the last 10 years or so.
There's no "SOT License". The Special Occupational Tax is simply a payment made that gives an existing FFL permission to engage in business with title 2 items. There is no training or knowledge required to obtain an FFL or SOT.
I stand corrected on the "SOT License." Nevertheless, he did say that he had some sort of training and that the information he got was that the ATF can enter your home anytime if you own suppressors.
So, I'm just repeating what I heard. I still think that he and the person giving him that information was wrong.
The NFA does not supersede the 4th Amendment. As an FFL, he would agree to specific obligations to furnish information and access to the ATF. As an individual, and owner of a Tittle 2 NFA item, you have made no such agreement and are simply making a tax payment when applying for a F1 or F4 (there is no tax payment for a estate transfer).
Agreed. I tried to explain this but it fell on deaf ears.
IMHO, I think this is how the myth gets started.
Half truths and misconceptions that agree with pre-conceptions are how all myths get started.
I don't know if it was that video or another one which I watched last night, but it looks like the AFT isn't going to get this suit dismissed and it will go to trial.
There was also another case where the judge told the ATF to fuck off. Some guy was charged but never convicted and they were restricting his right to purchase firearms. They actual tried to say "the right to bear doesn't include the right to acquire".
The judge went back to historic and found 1790s law (IIRC) asserting the right to purchase if not a criminal and ruled in favor of the defense.
There was also another case where the judge told the ATF to fuck off. Some guy was charged but never convicted and they were restricting his right to purchase firearms. They actual tried to say "the right to bear doesn't include the right to acquire".
The judge went back to historic and found 1790s law (IIRC) asserting the right to purchase if not a criminal and ruled in favor of the defense.
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Things are getting spicy for the ATF & NFA...
Scheduled for Nov, 2023. LOL
Of course it is... Anything the ATF can do to push it back further and further to keep getting all that extorted tax money. They know they have lost this lawsuit completely, so they're just trying to delay the inevitable. Same reason why they keep trying to get cases dismissed for the FRT and cases against the Constitutionality of the NFA itself...Both cases have zero legs to stand on, and will fall flat on their face when evidence is presented, and based upon the Bruen decision of "Text, History, and Tradition". Not to mention the EPA v. West Virginia Chevron Deference case that the EPA recently lost.
I still can't believe the SC dismissed the case for bumpstocks allowing the ATF to continue their illegal Chevron Deference bullshit.
I hear you, and it seems to me that SBRs can never stand the new tests, nor suppressors.
Because of the status of machine guns under the NFA, I think that is why the Supreme Court won't be addressing bump stocks. I think we are getting our 2A rights firmly supported, but machine guns are OOB, unless registered NFA style. I don't think SCOTUS is ready to open up machine gun ownership.
For the life of me, I don't the Supreme Court should address the bump stocks. They are shit accessories designed to increase the rate of fire. They have no value in hunting, competition, self-defense or warfare. You know, the things we say we have rights under the 2A, as opposed to hosing bullets around (which isn't protected under the 2A). I think it is a waste of time to have anything to do with them, personally or legislatively. I think people are railing at the ATF and administrations for taking actions against these POS accessories, due to the "make no concessions with the gun grabbers" philosophy.
I believe that whole dynamic changed with Bruen. We no longer need to be as aggressively on guard against every action by the gun grabbers as we see the worst of their schemes disposed of by the court with alacrity.
So lets not concentrate on the shit stocks and instead concentrate on SBRs and suppressors.
And by the way, the Mississippi governor signed a legalization of SBRs law a week ago. Someone needs to get the TX legislature to do the same. I think if enough states do this (with suppressors and SBRs) it might accelerate the process.
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Kind of like weed. States have slowly been legalizing it over the last 10 years or so. I heard this last week Biden is having the FDA or whoever look at reclassifying weed so it isn't a class 1 like heroin, crack, etc. Plus he pardoned all federal weed sentences last week.
I disagree with you totally. Not about getting SBR's and Suppressors to be 'free', but about the classification of not being aggressive against gun grabbers or defending things we personally might not use.
The very premise that there are a ton of non-elected political appointees that can create criminal law based solely upon the whims of themselves or the President is a horrible idea. Just the idea that the ATF has the ability to change the rules in it's entirety with zero input from anybody is not cool. Sometimes it's not the what, but the how.
Likewise if someone didn't howl and scream at the current laws in New York or California ALL of it would just quietly ride on despite any kind of SCOTUS decision. Not only that but 'we' should push to remove a shit ton of the BS laws currently on the books. I knew a family where the primary bread winner got into some kind of medical situation and their income went down substantially fast (like within a month). Anyway the person responsible had sent out checks to pay the bills and all sorts of stuff, but because the sum total of it was over $1500 (across numerous different companies), when those checks bounced--here comes the felony. Things like 'not all felonies are created equally' I think is good to consider. But we have a 'zero tolerance policy' for felonies. Things like selling too many barnyard animals without a license and other non violent offenses should not be considered permanent loss of gun rights.
In other words, no, we shouldn't sit here quietly hoping to keep the status quo. Nor should we sit here quietly when an agency like the ATF decides on a whim to create a bunch of felons.
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