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New Sabbitch

el gordo2

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 13, 2008
994
10
San Antonio, Tejas
Never been a fan of theirs but I finally pulled the trigger on a Savage. This one is a Cabela's 10FP with the new style Choate stock on it. Not crazy about the 26 inch barrel but will shoot and chrony some rounds through it and then most likely will cut it down. The stock on this thing is pretty darn stiff for being plastic. It has a hollow void in the butt and grip area which I promptly filled with lead shot bringing the weight up to 17lbs 15oz.

Found a Near 20moa base in the bargin cave for get this...$23 and mounted a Mk4 4.5x14 on it for the time being. Planning on working up some loads and shooting it in the next couple of days. I have on hand a couple of hundred 168gr Amaxes and some R-15 to try. If it shoots as well as my FN SPR and Rem 700 do, I'll be a happy camper.


Still pondering on what to paint it.
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This thing deserves a $10 krylonizing.
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Still pondering on what to paint it.
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This thing deserves a $10 krylonizing.
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Re: New Sabbitch

I know it is hard to look at,but you will probably love it. Savage has never been much on asthetics, but their stuff shoots. I have heard good things about the new stock.

 
Re: New Sabbitch

I think it looks great. I love the new Choate stock. Everyone is constantly ripping off others designs. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.

The best part about it is that it will shoot great as well. Tough to beat a Savage in the bang/buck category. Post a RR.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I'd leave it be, as is. There are a lot of conflicting ideas out there, but Savage does about the best job of providing a superior rifle NIB. Why mess with success? If you want a short barrel rifle, buy one that's built that way. If you want it from Savage, they can provide them. If you rifle offends you, sell it, get what you really wanted all along. Anytime you modify a rifle, you risk screwing it up, and selling a modified rifle just raises red flags if I'm the buyer. Leave well enough alone.

Greg
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I think it was Larry Englebrecht that once said

"I've spent a long time practicing, long enough to have seen young men step forward with a factory Savage or Sako and shoot like champions. In the end, its rarely the rifle, its rarely the round, it appears to be their strong intent to do their best each and every time."

Nice rifle, Gordo.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd leave it be, as is. There are a lot of conflicting ideas out there, but Savage does about the best job of providing a superior rifle NIB. Why mess with success? If you want a short barrel rifle, buy one that's built that way. If you want it from Savage, they can provide them. If you rifle offends you, sell it, get what you really wanted all along. Anytime you modify a rifle, you risk screwing it up, and selling a modified rifle just raises red flags if I'm the buyer. Leave well enough alone.

Greg </div></div>

I respectfully disagree.. Damn near everyone on this board modifies their rifles in some way shape or form. I dont see how having a quality gunsmith chop a few inches off a barrel and recrown it will have any negative impact unless they screw it up. Not to mention I thing everyone on here knows the benifits of having a shorter barrel.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I appreciate your viewpoint, and I very willingly agree that most here do like tweaking their equipment.

My own Savage is highly modified, only the bolt, receiver, trigger guard, and barrel nut remain original.

This was done because at the time it was performed, no Savage factory rifle existed in anywhere near the configuration I needed. Now it not only does; it's better than what I have.

The only reason I'd build something now would be cost, but as long as a thing is made the way I want, and I can afford it, I'll far prefer to buy rather than build. Honestly, it does not make sense to me to buy B when what I really want is A and it's available.

Greg
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they had Choate rip off an A5, oh the horror... </div></div>

Imitation is the sincerest form of...stealing food from the designer's table.

I doubt Kelly is scratching his head and moaning that someone else thought of using Tupperware resin.

That said, I've yet to buy a Savage that didn't shoot well, even got that Savage Guru to make my 7.62x39 110S feed off the mag box and EJECT the fired case.

Pete
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it was Larry Englebrecht that once said

"I've spent a long time practicing, long enough to have seen young men step forward with a factory Savage or Sako and shoot like champions. In the end, its rarely the rifle, its rarely the round, it appears to be their strong intent to do their best each and every time."</div></div>

+1...Get out and shoot.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I have the 10fcp with the real A5. The first chance I got to use a friends lathe, I cut her down to 20". You won't be sorry chopping it down. Mine shoots 168gr GMM at 2600 fps
 
Re: New Sabbitch


You think McMillan would have a problem with that the A-5 imitation, especially considering that Savage already sells 10FCPs with real A-5s. I understand the argument for leaving the rifle alone, but I still had my 10FCP (with real A-5) pillar bedded. The 24" barrel suits me fine but if a 20" is what you want/need then chop away!
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I like it! But (as a rule) I like Savages...

For a rifle to shoot that damn good right out of the box says a lot. I have my Savages as well, and they have all been shooters. I have modified the hell out of them as well, and when done, they stack up with the best, for a whole lot less.

Chop it off or keep it like it is... It's all about what you want in the end.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

Sorry to hijack the thread, but....

As for the comments on the stock, let me ask this:

If the McMillan A5 was the original than wouldn't the Manners and the Choate be subject to the same criticism of imitation.

(BTW - I don't think Fred Choate or Tom Manners broke any laws or patent rights when they made their stocks)

I'm just saying...
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiTechTactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry to hijack the thread, but....

As for the comments on the stock, let me ask this:

If the McMillan A5 was the original than wouldn't the Manners and the Choate be subject to the same criticism of imitation.

(BTW - I don't think Fred Choate or Tom Manners broke any laws or patent rights when they made their stocks)

I'm just saying...

</div></div>

Maybe not breaking the law but (IMHO) stealing a share of another man's biscuits for sure.
Kelly M. laid out what it cost to tool up a mold awhile back...it is pricey.

Pete
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Balldboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Kelly M. laid out what it cost to tool up a mold awhile back...it is pricey.</div></div>

... and long since been paid for, I'm betting.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

A stock is a stock is a stock. Hell, if you are going to bust Choate’s ass for making rifle stocks that look the way they do (like the A3, A4, A5) then why not bust Lilja’s ass for making buttoned rifled barrels. Granted, Lothar Walther invented the process, but shit let's all jump on the band wagon and sort these thieving sons’ a bitches out! While we’re at it we can kick ol’ Dan Wesson, Remington, and Sako in the ass as well because I’m pretty friggin’ sure they didn’t invent the firearm!

Most of the benchrest stocks look pretty much the same. Most of the hunting rifle stocks look pretty much the same. It stands to reason that tactical stocks are going to look pretty much the same. Just like wheels are round and birds have wings. I'm not aware of anyone putting a patent on a rifle stock design because it is so radical, so revolutionary, as to change the way we look at rifle stocks. They serve a pretty basic function and therefore have a pretty basic design with pretty basic commonalities.

Hell, I’d be pretty damn flattered if I came up with some features on a rifle stock and every one else copied them. It’s a good indicator that you are on the right path with your designs.

Look, I’m not trying to be a total smart ass on this issue, but if the U.S. patent office and a court of law does not think that Choate is ripping off McMillan, it’s pretty safe to say that McMillan is not being ripped off.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to mention I thing everyone on here knows the benifits of having a shorter barrel. </div></div>

And the downsides, not least of which would be velocity and harmonic changes. It completely depends on what is being done with the rifle, and I have some with 18" barrels for a walking carbine and a 26 or 28" barrel for shooting longer than most people will give a caliber credit for.

You actually CAN screw something up like this if it shoots very well already. Just because the stiffer barrel studies show better accuracy for some things it's not ALWAYS the rule that cutting a barrel shorter will improve it's accuracy.

I have yet to see a well developed harmonic model of a barrel on this site. I have seen a well developed model dealing with barrel tuners on small bore match rifles for another company and there's some more important things than just cutting a barrel down.

Greg makes a solid point, shoot it first, evaluate how things go, and ONLY THEN start making changes. If the rifle needs to be a shorter barrel for transportability reasons, then what's to say it can't be cut back to 16.5" if he needs or wants that. If it's going to be a 1 way range rifle there's no reason to NOT shoot it before making changes.

LL's Gladius shoots to 1k and wears an 18" barrel and doesn't have issues doing that, and it's a very mobile rifle that also wears a can. Putting a suppressor on the end of a 26" barrel is annoying, I've done it. I feel like I'm aiming a flagpole.

That 26" barreled 30-06 that I have manages to shoot well under MOA and still throw a 208gr Amax up around the velocities that a 300 WM will do regularly. The harmonics of that rifle have been nipped and trimmed on the barrel to where the anti-node in the harmonics is very very close to the muzzle, and THAT is something you can easily F up by simply cutting the thing down for nothing more than the "cool" factor.

I've said this before, and I stand by it.

STIFFNESS does not beget accuracy, REPEATABILITY begets "accuracy".

You can have a stiff barrel and action and stock and if things don't work well together because they're not repeatable and well matched, then that long, whippy 26" barreled factory gun next to you could very well outshoot you all day long.

Stiffness buys you the ability to take less notice of harmonics and ignore their role more. If you account for the harmonics and natural modes that are inherent to structures that 26" whippy barrel just became something that can be predicted, repeated, and tuned for the same level or better accuracy as a 18" barrel.

Overwhelming evidence of this is exhibited each time you look in the sky and see an aircraft flying. Structural harmonics are key to the design of aircraft of all types. Our "rocket science" bullet launchers are models of simplicity compared to what happens with much of the other things we see on a regular basis.

Ok, enough soapbox.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

el gordo2, I bet you didn't think your new Sabbitch would get guys all hyped up like it did, huh?

Enjoy the new piece. Oh yeah, definitely paint it. That Rynite takes good to Krylon if you give it a good scuff.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

Well in alot of threads I see the OP getting side tracked, that's just life
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This afternoon is where the rubber meets the road. I am headed to the ranch to give the Sabbitch a whirl. I gave her 50 strokes of JB to hopefully get a little roughness out.Still need a quick bore sight.

I can do some load development fairly easy as I can shoot out to 500Y right out of my reloading room. Can torture test the same 5 cases until the primer pocket goes or the neck cracks. The chronograpgh will be set up to check velocities and SD's.
Will post the results when done.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

Very lucid and succinct! You make your case well Bohem. Some times it's better not to screw with things. However, I have had two buddies chop their factory barrels down to 20” or less and neither rifle has suffered any apparent loss in accuracy. It seems only a loss in velocity (as you stated).

With all this in mind I am still inclined to say that purchasing a good aftermarket barrel from say LW or Shilen in an 18” or 20” length and in a twist rate suited to a 155gr Scenar bullet that might better take advantage of that short barrel would be a better option than chopping the factory tube. That’s one of the inherent beauties of the Savage rifles. You can swap out barrels and calibers like changing your socks.

Either way, I like your new rifle El Gordo2. Every time I see a new gun I like I can’t help but imagine what it would look like stacked in my closet with all the other guns I really like.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I owned a Choate stock before and didn't care for it. This stock looks a lot better(thx K.M.). I'm building up a Stevens 200 right now and am shopping for stocks. How much does the stock weigh? Does it have pillars in it?

Nice looking rifle OP.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: el gordo2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Never been a fan of theirs but I finally pulled the trigger on a Savage.</div></div>
You've wasted a lot of time, but welcome in the EZPZ Lemon Squeezie Barrel Change Club
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it shoots as well as my FN SPR and Rem 700 do, I'll be a happy camper.</div></div>
It should. And if it doesn't, you can order a pre-fit custom barrel and mount it yourself. For the price you paid that rifle, the barrel I bet it came for free (roughly $380 the action, and another $180 the stock).

 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, it does not make sense to me to buy B when what I really want is A and it's available.</div></div>
Maybe not, but I still don't feel like it's mine until I've changed it. Even if I decided to buy A instead of B, I'd probably still turn A into C.

Is anyone really going to buy the Choate in place of the McMillan? Just because they look similar does not make them interchangeable. There's plenty of real issues to get fired up about without getting wrapped around the axle over non-existent ones.

Nice rifle Gordo, and yeah, it's screaming for Krylon.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mumbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, it does not make sense to me to buy B when what I really want is A and it's available.</div></div>
Maybe not, but I still don't feel like it's mine until I've changed it. Even if I decided to buy A instead of B, I'd probably still turn A into C.

Is anyone really going to buy the Choate in place of the McMillan? Just because they look similar does not make them interchangeable. There's plenty of real issues to get fired up about without getting wrapped around the axle over non-existent ones.

Nice rifle Gordo, and yeah, it's screaming for Krylon. </div></div>

I'm a busted broke college student and just cut cable so I can put $70 more a month to my project. So yeah, I was looking into buying a Choate instead of the McMillan. I know Mcmillan bros make great stocks(I have a A3) and am in no way comparing them to Choate. Just trying to find something in my price range that is decent.

So far I'm looking at Choate, Duramaxx, and Stockade(out of price range really). Sorry to be stomping on your thread OP, just thought your rifle looks nice and am thinking about building up my Stevens just like it(only in .260).
 
Re: New Sabbitch

I got to shoot the Sabbitch today. Went through a few bullets and powder and so far I am not impressed. I ran out of Varget and only tried various charges of R-15 with a 168gr A Max so all is not lost.
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I like the the stock so far, no complaints. The groups started to tighten up after 44.3 gr load. I have been playing with different OAL's with the 44.6 and 44.8 grain loads. The 44.8 gr load has slightly flatten primers. The barrel on the rifle is a bit faster than the FN's 24" and Rem's when it was a 26". I dont know whether to try some 4895 as I have some handy or just wait till I get some Varget. I did get a 3" group at 400y with +7.25 right at dark this evening. Will be tinkering with it again in the morning.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Here's are the first 100yd groups shot with bipod and rear bag from a rest </span>
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Re: New Sabbitch

Wow... Are you sure that's a Savage? Just kidding... I have one with the real A5 and I did a bedding job myself she shoots great!

A couple of stuff that might be helpful: Have you checked the torque on the action screws? Also my Savage did not like my 168 A-max and Varget load.

These loads works great with my Savage:

155 Scenars
45.3 grains Varget CCI primer or
45 grains Varget Wolf Magnum primer
Winchester brass
Both loaded at around 2.805 COAL with a .045 jump
The Scenars did not like being pushed in the lands.

175 SMK's
43.8 grains Varget CCI primer
Win Brass and 2.805 COAL
It didn't mind being pushed in the lands

I only shoot Scenars now since I have found the one load that works good for both my FN and Savage - now that's awesome!
 
Re: New Sabbitch

It's a new gun. Once the barrel settles in, and you settle in behind it, the groups will start pulling in tighter. Joey's loads are good for his gun, and they may work well in yours too. Keep loading and keep practicing. If it shoots like that after another 500 rounds then change something.
 
Re: New Sabbitch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">It's a new gun. Once the barrel settles in, and you settle in behind it, the groups will start pulling in tighter.</span> Joey's loads are good for his gun, and they may work well in yours too. Keep loading and keep practicing. <span style="font-weight: bold">If it shoots like that after another 500 rounds then change something.</span></div></div>


Remington's shoot right out of the box, least the one I bought a couple of months ago.
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Beleive me, it wont even come close to having 500 rounds put through it if it cant consitantly shoot better than it has. It will be a 260 before that.
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Re: New Sabbitch

Before throwing the barrel away, I'd give a quick try to Sierra and Lapua.
Check the receiver screws tension also, as they can come fairly lose from the factory.
Do not expect "unrealistic" accuracy with factory barrel though.