Here’s the write up:
Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 7 - 35 X 56, new hotness in hand
Mr Brown just dropped off this beauty...
www.snipershide.com Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
www.snipershide.com I wasn’t even thinking about the MTC thing (I’ve turned it off on my 5-25 w/DTII+).
So I’m guessing that you cannot turn off the MTC on the DT27 and DT35? If so, that is a huge turnoff. I suppose Jerry could remove it?
Well, good on them for fixing it but crazy knowing what their QC/QA processes are that a whole batch was allowed to leave the shop that wayHere’s the write up:
Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 7 - 35 X 56, new hotness in hand
Mr Brown just dropped off this beauty...
On of the issues I have always liked about S&B is they have been around for a long time. A bunch of competitors, while driving innovation, are a bit more of leap of faith that they will be around in a decade. My service life for this high end optics is 10+ years (I'm still using a Premier 5-25x that I bought in 2012-ish, maybe?). TT and ZCO are doing amazing stuff, and are pressing the competition to respond, but I still remember USO and Premier having a similar role. Those two aren't here now to support their products, like S&B is for a 5-25x that was bought in 2012. (You could say that USO is still around, but it ain't the same company as the one that was in Brea CA in the early 2000's.)
Interesting to hear the positive reviews/opinions of GR2ID. Anyone that is interested, I found this article on the design history and philosophy:
schmidtundbender.de
Reviewing old Hide opinions on GR2ID and its kind of mixed... I guess people's opinions have improved since it was introduced with some fans now.
Interesting to hear the positive reviews/opinions of GR2ID. Anyone that is interested, I found this article on the design history and philosophy:
The making of the GR²ID reticle
Interesting facts about riflescopes, reticles, turrets and accessories, such as tips, tricks and technical know-how can be read here.
schmidtundbender.de Reviewing old Hide opinions on GR2ID and its kind of mixed... I guess people's opinions have improved since it was introduced with some fans now.
I think a lot of those were from pre-release before people got behind them.On of the issues I have always liked about S&B is they have been around for a long time. A bunch of competitors, while driving innovation, are a bit more of leap of faith that they will be around in a decade. My service life for this high end optics is 10+ years (I'm still using a Premier 5-25x that I bought in 2012-ish, maybe?). TT and ZCO are doing amazing stuff, and are pressing the competition to respond, but I still remember USO and Premier having a similar role. Those two aren't here now to support their products, like S&B is for a 5-25x that was bought in 2012. (You could say that USO is still around, but it ain't the same company as the one that was in Brea CA in the early 2000's.)
Interesting to hear the positive reviews/opinions of GR2ID. Anyone that is interested, I found this article on the design history and philosophy:
The making of the GR²ID reticle
Interesting facts about riflescopes, reticles, turrets and accessories, such as tips, tricks and technical know-how can be read here.
Reviewing old Hide opinions on GR2ID and its kind of mixed... I guess people's opinions have improved since it was introduced with some fans now.
Mine has a lot of CA but otherwise the detail and optical resolution is top notch.
Strange.
In my brief testing mine has no more than a Tangent; both I can induce CA with bad/off-axis eye position.
Thats what i was thinking too.
Correct, you cannot turn MTC off on DT27/35. Possible Schmidt service center can??? MTC is much better on DT II+ and I prefer to leave it on.
You have both the ZCO527 and the 6-36 right. FOV and eyebox wise, about the same? or one better than the other?
FOV and eyebox..I find the S&B better than the TT..
Got my new replacement last week... I've got to get it mounted and out for a run. Work has me all tied up unfortunately... maybe this weekend
@BoldCorrections might be able to provide a little insight here as well.
One thing that was pointed out to me by an individual....
The Euro version.....which we get in Aus....has a different FOV to the US version?
The Euro version.....which we get in Aus....has a different FOV to the US version?
Its the same on optics-trade.eu for the euro models. Must have been a typo
I am trying to confirm with S&B the reason for this. If it is what I think, I will go absolutely "scorched earth" against the culprit.
ILya
is it an actual difference or something else? That second part makes it seem like something else.
The FOV is one of the strong points of the 6-36.....at least on the version we got..
Oh...well...thats disappointing. Still bigger than the TT735P specs wise...but disappointing.
S&B lists a different "usa" field of view number for several models, and I've always wondered about that, because they don't provide enough info to understand the difference in the specs.
Most manufacturers list fov in meters at 100 meters and fov in yards at 100 yards, but the tech specs on S&Bs website list the fov in meters for both the euro and usa specs, so it doesn't appear to simply be providing the fov in yards at 100 yards with a simple unit error on the USA specs.
From the 6-36 tech specs on S&Bs website:
Here's the fov specs on the tech specs for the new 3-18x42 where they provide the fov in degrees as well as meters/100m and feet/100y, but again, the USA specs are different...
Very interested to finally get an explanation about the difference in FOV specs, as it's a pretty significant difference for the USA specs.
Most manufacturers list fov in meters at 100 meters and fov in yards at 100 yards, but the tech specs on S&Bs website list the fov in meters for both the euro and usa specs, so it doesn't appear to simply be providing the fov in yards at 100 yards with a simple unit error on the USA specs.
From the 6-36 tech specs on S&Bs website:
Here's the fov specs on the tech specs for the new 3-18x42 where they provide the fov in degrees as well as meters/100m and feet/100y, but again, the USA specs are different...
Very interested to finally get an explanation about the difference in FOV specs, as it's a pretty significant difference for the USA specs.
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Wow, disappointing. Less FOV than the Razor?
It’s still very good. But thats a puzzling and borderline infuriating design decision.
about the same for both per the websites.
still higher than it tho
Look through one before you jump....very impressive glass on the 6-36!!
I do not think it is driven by design decisions. As soon as I know for sure, I'll get into more details.
ILya
No, it isn't. Not at the same magnification.still higher than it tho
About 9% less. Fairly significant for 2x the cost.
I just couldn’t bring myself to spend that much. I get favorable deals and the Schmidt was over $1K cheaper to my door, but giving up FoV for no good reason is always a loser.
Guess we know why Schmidt dropped the price like they did.
Am disappoint. Back to the drawing board i guess.About 9% less. Fairly significant for 2x the cost.
I just couldn’t bring myself to spend that much. I get favorable deals and the Schmidt was over $1K cheaper to my door, but giving up FoV for no good reason is always a loser.
Guess we know why Schmidt dropped the price like they did.
Why would they do this..?
Unless there is some legal causes that prohibits S&B from selling the EU equivalent in the US it does not make any sense to me..
Developing a product equal or better than the competition, and then offering an inferior version to a big part of its market..
The scope is sold in EU countries for the same or less than the US version, I refuse to believe it is to «save» on the models sold in the US.
Curios to see what S&B offers of information(if any)on this topic, if the reason does not show this being an «out of there hands» decision, the costs to theyre reputation might be..
Just goes to show, know what you’re buying and don’t be an early adopter.
Well…guess i gotta do the thing and get a 525P. Thankfully stocking dealer prices are aight…
Shame, the glass was unreal on the 6-36es but unless they get this fixed, nonstarter
Look man, some of us are at that point in life where we have the maturity and patience to raise troubled scopes, have plenty experience with raising our own scopes, and can provide a loving family for them.
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I would like to be a fly on the wall when you go "scorched earth". Interesting you mention "the culprit" as if you know who was responsible for this. The bigger question is why, so will be curious to hear what you find out. Those big FOV numbers were something that initially drew me to the Schmidt 6-36, but if they are crippling the US version of the scope then I agree with others - I'll pass as wide FOV is a big necessity for me.
I hereby dub this brouhaha “FOVgate”.
It’s like a minor version of VW’s dieselgate scandal, only instead of outright lying, the dirty truth is an innocuous line-item on a spreadsheet.
I’m also curious on how this FOV reduction was technically accomplished. And I sense some price reductions on US 6-36 S&B’s in the future lol.
It’s like a minor version of VW’s dieselgate scandal, only instead of outright lying, the dirty truth is an innocuous line-item on a spreadsheet.
I’m also curious on how this FOV reduction was technically accomplished. And I sense some price reductions on US 6-36 S&B’s in the future lol.
But what do I do with the $4K+ scope I already mounted I have enough Razors to tide me over til this bullshit is over, but no I had to go and buy new shiny.
Trash
I have enough Razors to tide me over til this bullshit is over, but no I had to go and buy new shiny.Trash
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So I'm curious if you have one @TheOE800 if you can actually measure the fov with yours if it lines up with either of the posted specs when you have a sec
Let me bug @GBMaryland since he has LRFs and probably knows metric.
@TheOE800
are you in the MD, DC, VA vicinity? (see you are asking a guy w/ Maryland in his name.) If so, I could help you out on testing the FOV. I have LRF, land to test on, and know metric.
are you in the MD, DC, VA vicinity? (see you are asking a guy w/ Maryland in his name.) If so, I could help you out on testing the FOV. I have LRF, land to test on, and know metric.
Ill shoot you a PM
I don’t get it, wth would they make a different version for each side of the pond?
From a economic perspective it doesn’t make any sense, unless it has something to do with parts being manufactured stateside to a inferior spec, and in that case, why even bother bringing it to market and risking tarnishing their reputation?
From a economic perspective it doesn’t make any sense, unless it has something to do with parts being manufactured stateside to a inferior spec, and in that case, why even bother bringing it to market and risking tarnishing their reputation?
Took a look at S&B website at the newer/updated models, 6-36, 5-20, 5-25 and 10-60.
Only the 6-36 and 10-60 has different FOV numbers specified for the US models, these are completely new designs compared to the other two. Seems like they are designing US specific models of the new scopes
Again, really curios as to why..
Producing two different models of the same scope must be resource demanding and again, makes no sense..
Like asked above, how do they technically alter the FOV on an otherwise identical scope?
Only the 6-36 and 10-60 has different FOV numbers specified for the US models, these are completely new designs compared to the other two. Seems like they are designing US specific models of the new scopes
Again, really curios as to why..
Producing two different models of the same scope must be resource demanding and again, makes no sense..
Like asked above, how do they technically alter the FOV on an otherwise identical scope?
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