New World Record

THEIS

Hi, Sincerely
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  • Nov 27, 2017
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    Hi,

    Lets us just get some clarity :)

    1. There is NO world record of any sorts in the ELR realm....none.
    2. There is not a National or International governing body that sanctions any such World Record.
    3. There is not even a functional governing organization in the ELR realm right now.
    4. Longest confirmed impact in a match...YES.
    5. How many shoots to get the impact?

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     

    b2lee

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  • Dec 30, 2018
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    Hi,

    Lets us just get some clarity :)

    1. There is NO world record of any sorts in the ELR realm....none.
    2. There is not a National or International governing body that sanctions any such World Record.
    3. There is not even a functional governing organization in the ELR realm right now.
    4. Longest confirmed impact in a match...YES.
    5. How many shoots to get the impact?

    Sincerely,
    Theis

    1. We can't even agree on rules, equipment, target size....much less an official body being recognized to certify.
    2. There are plenty of facebook groups and popup web sites that claim some sort of authority on world records.
    3. I was going to say something....but you threw the word 'functional' in there...and invalidated any argument I had.
    4. Longest I've heard of.
    5. 5 shots....I'd be proud....and probably peacocking around telling everyone it was a world record as well....how accurate or valid that may be.

    Nice feat.....I wish it would have been me...but I rarely get out of my lane with a max of 2500yds.
     

    Steel head

    Feral kitten
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  • Aug 3, 2014
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    Hi,

    Lets us just get some clarity :)

    1. There is NO world record of any sorts in the ELR realm....none.
    2. There is not a National or International governing body that sanctions any such World Record.
    3. There is not even a functional governing organization in the ELR realm right now.
    4. Longest confirmed impact in a match...YES.
    5. How many shoots to get the impact?

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    On point number 5 it was his 4 shot but without a follow up I chalk it up to luck as much as anything.
    A lucky Larry loo?
     

    Ledzep

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  • Jun 9, 2009
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    Roulette. I hope everyone understands this guy (and all the rest of these) just won a round of roulette.

    Obviously it takes some significant level of skill and knowledge to even get into the ballpark of the target at that distance, but the target is probably 1/3 to 1/4 the height of elevation spread just from MV, being generous. Never mind wind, aerodynamic jump, drag variability, etc...

    It's the same thing as 1000yd bench rest world record groups. Impressive, sure... in the same way winning the lottery is. Throw enough groups at paper at 1000yd with tuned out systems, and eventually you're going to throw some .1 MOA 5 shotters and .25-.35 MOA 10 shotters down range.

    Anyway, I still maintain some poor schmuck has probably been hit by a deck gun or rail gun directly at 20-25 miles so what's 3000-6000yd? ;)
     

    THEIS

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  • Nov 27, 2017
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    On point number 5 it was his 4 shot but without a follow up I chalk it up to luck as much as anything.

    A lucky Larry loo?

    Hi,

    So it was his forth shot of the day or were there closer targets before reaching that one?

    Super impressed if forth shot of the day witj zero shots at closer distances!

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
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    DIBBS

    Old Mountain Man-Tired occasionally Grumpy SOB
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  • Aug 21, 2008
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    But, but, but, Hill Country Rifles has so many self proclaimed world records dont they...regardless of the number of shots it takes to eventually hit a target?

    Impressive feat... but without a set of rules/guidelines... I will have to hold the applause for later.
     

    Steel head

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  • Aug 3, 2014
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    Hi,

    So it was his forth shot of the day or were there closer targets before reaching that one?

    Super impressed if forth shot of the day witj zero shots at closer distances!

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    You’ve seen competitions, you know how they mostly work, it was a competition so obviously he was working out in distances as he progressed, every shot tells you something.

    To go out cold and put one in at 4000 plus within 5 shots is certainly a bit of skill and luck but still impressive.
     

    Tokay444

    Black Rifles Matter.
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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    I've seen the way most of these guys shoot. Terrible fundamentals from what those that teach fundamentals instruct. ie, slapping their triggers, no follow through, no real natural point of aim, body not square to the rifle or the target, gripping the rifle with support hand (that one really blows my mind), coming completely off the gun between shots, etc, etc, etc. It wouldn't take much for someone with solid fundamentals and decent budget to come in and wipe the floor with these guys at their own game. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's already happened.
    With perfect loads, equipment, and fundamentals, I feel like the sport should be able to use man/animal sized targets, and actually make it a sport. No, "real life" shooting discipline rewards you with meat on the table, or beating your enemy for hitting a garage door.
    I realize that all sounds arm-chair quarterback-ish, and this is their game. They can format is any way they want, but if you shrink the targets to something more realistic, maybe the shooters will learn to shoot better.
     

    Ledzep

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  • Jun 9, 2009
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    I've seen the way most of these guys shoot. Terrible fundamentals from what those that teach fundamentals instruct. ie, slapping their triggers, no follow through, no real natural point of aim, body not square to the rifle or the target, gripping the rifle with support hand (that one really blows my mind), coming completely off the gun between shots, etc, etc, etc. It wouldn't take much for someone with solid fundamentals and decent budget to come in and wipe the floor with these guys at their own game. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's already happened.
    With perfect loads, equipment, and fundamentals, I feel like the sport should be able to use man/animal sized targets, and actually make it a sport. No, "real life" shooting discipline rewards you with meat on the table, or beating your enemy for hitting a garage door.
    I realize that all sounds arm-chair quarterback-ish, and this is their game. They can format is any way they want, but if you shrink the targets to something more realistic, maybe the shooters will learn to shoot better.

    No. If you had weather stations every 50 yards to the target and a 6 DOF solver with hundreds of rounds of doppler data for that specific rifle/ammo combo, and had a machine rest self-rectify for incoming environmental data, you'd still print a pattern about 4-5x the size of the target in the picture at that distance.

    There is no practicality involved. Out to a mile, MAYBE there's some reason to have an individual shooter poke shots with a man-portable shoulder fired system. At the distances we're seeing in the ELR game it's direct/indirect large caliber HE. Multiple rounds and HE blast/frag radius to account for dispersion. The 2800+ yard kills sound cool for Hollywood movies but they're mostly a "lets throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" situation where nothing is at risk for making the noise.
     

    Tokay444

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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    No. If you had weather stations every 50 yards to the target and a 6 DOF solver with hundreds of rounds of doppler data for that specific rifle/ammo combo, and had a machine rest self-rectify for incoming environmental data, you'd still print a pattern about 4-5x the size of the target in the picture at that distance.

    There is no practicality involved. Out to a mile, MAYBE there's some reason to have an individual shooter poke shots with a man-portable shoulder fired system. At the distances we're seeing in the ELR game it's direct/indirect large caliber HE. Multiple rounds and HE blast/frag radius to account for dispersion. The 2800+ yard kills sound cool for Hollywood movies but they're mostly a "lets throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" situation where nothing is at risk for making the noise.
    Canadians hold a few longest confirmed kill shots (those are man sized targets by the way) as far as 3500m, second and third round hits. No self correcting rests.
     

    Ledzep

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  • Jun 9, 2009
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    People win the lottery, too.

    Separate low probability events from reliable capability. Hop on JBM and input whatever bullet/velocity data you want and run a calculation out to 3500m, then change the velocity by 30fps. Then show me a system that does better than +/- 15fps reliably. So you have weapon dispersion that is +/- .25 MOA in the best case, plus +/- 15-20fps on MV, +/- 1-5% drag variability, Wind variability down range, wind call variability at the shooter location, over 2000+ meters it all adds up to a gigantic cone of fire relative to a 'practical' target size.

    Also, you never hear of the stories where everyone misses...
     

    Geno C.

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  • Oct 24, 2007
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    People win the lottery, too.

    Separate low probability events from reliable capability. Hop on JBM and input whatever bullet/velocity data you want and run a calculation out to 3500m, then change the velocity by 30fps. Then show me a system that does better than +/- 15fps reliably. So you have weapon dispersion that is +/- .25 MOA in the best case, plus +/- 15-20fps on MV, +/- 1-5% drag variability, Wind variability down range, wind call variability at the shooter location, over 2000+ meters it all adds up to a gigantic cone of fire relative to a 'practical' target size.

    Also, you never hear of the stories where everyone misses...
    There are plenty of guns that came to that match that hold extreme spreads of less than 30fps. You’re in NE, not far. Next match is in 3 weeks. Come show us up😉
     

    Tokay444

    Black Rifles Matter.
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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    People win the lottery, too.

    Separate low probability events from reliable capability. Hop on JBM and input whatever bullet/velocity data you want and run a calculation out to 3500m, then change the velocity by 30fps. Then show me a system that does better than +/- 15fps reliably. So you have weapon dispersion that is +/- .25 MOA in the best case, plus +/- 15-20fps on MV, +/- 1-5% drag variability, Wind variability down range, wind call variability at the shooter location, over 2000+ meters it all adds up to a gigantic cone of fire relative to a 'practical' target size.

    Also, you never hear of the stories where everyone misses...
    He made 2 out of 3 hits, for the kills, at 3500m.
     
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    Sandow the Heretic

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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Hi,

    Lets us just get some clarity :)

    1. There is NO world record of any sorts in the ELR realm....none.
    2. There is not a National or International governing body that sanctions any such World Record.
    3. There is not even a functional governing organization in the ELR realm right now.
    4. Longest confirmed impact in a match...YES.
    5. How many shoots to get the impact?

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    The FCSA recognizes 3 shot cold bore records. I wrote most of the rules that ELR Central initially went with. With their collapse we have stepped up to do it. The FCSA is an international sanctioning body that has been around for about 35 years so I'm not sure what else you want. We are sanctioning matches too and will likely codify the requirements this year. They are pretty much what you'd expect at this point since most of how ELR matches work has been figured out now.

    As far as Ryans shot goes, It isn't a record that anyone recognizes but it is damn impressive shooting. He hit at 2 miles as well so him reaching out another 500 yards is probably more that luck would account for. In the end, you can sit back in your armchair and try to diminish someone else's achievements but to what end? If you aren't going to show up at a match and show us all what a badass you are, you need to shut the fuck up cause we are all sick of your bullshit.

    -Alex
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
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  • Nov 27, 2017
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    Hi,

    I really do not give a Fuck what you are tired of, lol....TRUTH must sting that dry vagina of yours!!

    We can have a chat about it this coming month at Benning competition or Kiev in May for the 1 Mile match??

    So are you saying the FCSA is Internationally recognized as the governing body of ELR??

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
    Last edited:

    Tchitcherine

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    I'm admittedly ignorant of ELR match procedures, but trying to learn something here... Looking at the score card, in #18 : For a given target, are fewer points awarded for each successive hit? Why not award increasing points to reflect value of confirmed repeatability? No hate, just curious. Maybe you only have to hit once, and you get fewer points for how many shots it took?
     

    candyx

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    Apr 6, 2014
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    Hi,

    I really do not give a Fuck what you are tired of, lol....TRUTH must sting that dry vagina of yours!!

    We can have a chat about it this coming month at Benning competition or Kiev in May for the 1 Mile match??

    So are you saying the FCSA is Internationally recognized as the governing body of ELR??

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    When you say dry do you mean like when dust will come out, that dry ?
     

    Sandow the Heretic

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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Hi,

    I really do not give a Fuck what you are tired of, lol....TRUTH must sting that dry vagina of yours!!

    We can have a chat about it this coming month at Benning competition or Kiev in May for the 1 Mile match??

    So are you saying the FCSA is Internationally recognized as the governing body of ELR??

    Sincerely,
    Theis
    The FCSA is an international organization with chapters in England, Australia and Switzerland. It sanctions ELR matches here in the states including King of 2 Miles. All King bannered matches are FCSA sanctioned and the list of countries with King bannered matches is Canada, France, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, South Africa and England. So we are both an international sanctioning body and a sanctioner of international ELR matches.

    So your truth seems to be mostly an issue of lack of knowledge combined with an unrelentingly negative response to damn near anything in the sport. The fact that you are such a cunt contributes to the fact that virtually nobody in the industry is willing to come here. Not only do you contribute nothing to ELR, but you are actually hurting the sport by being a useless troll.

    -Alex
     

    MarshallDodge

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    It would be cool to say I hit a target over 4K yards away. Good for him.

    The thing I have always found interesting about these shooting scenarios is the size of the target and the group. If you are shooting at 100 yards, you need a 5 or 10 shot group to be considered legitimate but in ELR, 1 hit is all it takes?
     

    Clearlight

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    The FCSA is an international organization with chapters in England, Australia and Switzerland. It sanctions ELR matches here in the states including King of 2 Miles. All King bannered matches are FCSA sanctioned and the list of countries with King bannered matches is Canada, France, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, South Africa and England. So we are both an international sanctioning body and a sanctioner of international ELR matches.

    So your truth seems to be mostly an issue of lack of knowledge combined with an unrelentingly negative response to damn near anything in the sport. The fact that you are such a cunt contributes to the fact that virtually nobody in the industry is willing to come here. Not only do you contribute nothing to ELR, but you are actually hurting the sport by being a useless troll.

    -Alex
    Hi Alex, can you PM me the FCSA contact in Australia please? I have a property within 2 hours of a major eastern city, coming
    online soon with 4000 meters avaliable. Cheers from Aus, clearlight.
     

    Tokay444

    Black Rifles Matter.
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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    The FCSA is an international organization with chapters in England, Australia and Switzerland. It sanctions ELR matches here in the states including King of 2 Miles. All King bannered matches are FCSA sanctioned and the list of countries with King bannered matches is Canada, France, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, South Africa and England. So we are both an international sanctioning body and a sanctioner of international ELR matches.

    So your truth seems to be mostly an issue of lack of knowledge combined with an unrelentingly negative response to damn near anything in the sport. The fact that you are such a cunt contributes to the fact that virtually nobody in the industry is willing to come here. Not only do you contribute nothing to ELR, but you are actually hurting the sport by being a useless troll.

    -Alex
    You must have missed this.
    I can’t see yours though...
    A9E85AD1-A12A-4AFC-8EC0-74C5E9B490AC.jpeg
     

    hafejd30

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    I hit a 10” X 10” plate at 4500 yards the other day....no biggie as the winds were a mere 10-15 with a few gusts here and there. Wish someone else was there to see it. Managed to hit 2/3 with my tactical operations sniper kit,

    Savage 10 FCP 308
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    Remington 150 grain core lokt
     

    Steel head

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  • Aug 3, 2014
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    It would be cool to say I hit a target over 4K yards away. Good for him.

    The thing I have always found interesting about these shooting scenarios is the size of the target and the group. If you are shooting at 100 yards, you need a 5 or 10 shot group to be considered legitimate but in ELR, 1 hit is all it takes?
    Well dealing with wind and vision at 4000+ is a bit trickier.
     
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    Tokay444

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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    I hit a 10” X 10” plate at 4500 yards the other day....no biggie as the winds were a mere 10-15 with a few gusts here and there. Wish someone else was there to see it. Managed to hit 2/3 with my tactical operations sniper kit,

    Savage 10 FCP
    Tasco
    Remington 150 grain core lokt
    FCSA will recognize it, as long as you fly a King banner.
     

    Steel head

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  • Aug 3, 2014
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    I'm admittedly ignorant of ELR match procedures, but trying to learn something here... Looking at the score card, in #18 : For a given target, are fewer points awarded for each successive hit? Why not award increasing points to reflect value of confirmed repeatability? No hate, just curious. Maybe you only have to hit once, and you get fewer points for how many shots it took?
    Because it’s a LOT harder to hit it on your first or earlier attempts than more possibly for luck and help from additional information on later attempts.
     

    THEIS

    Hi, Sincerely
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  • Nov 27, 2017
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    Hi,

    LOLOLOLOL

    That is hilarious....So 1 person can keep the "industry" from coming here??
    I can name you a dozen reasons the people "In the industry" you are referring to do not come here...

    The main one is that pretty much nobody here cares about bullet lobbing.

    So for commercial contributions, lol:

    Own Hoplite Arms:
    First company in USA to be testing the new RUAG 375 Swiss P..
    First company in the USA to offer the RUAG 375 Swiss P in production weapon systems.
    First and only USA firearms manufacture to test ammunition at the RUAG facility in Thun.
    First and only precision bolt action rifle company to be working with 3 different governments on high pressure ELR/HTI systems.
    First and only precision bolt action rifle company to purposely design and engineer a receiver system to handle increased pressures in order to advance ballistics.
    Active with Crane on advancement of BMG via 2 part cartridge designs to provide NSWC with lighter weight ammunition yet faster MV.

    Co-Own Genesis Ballistics Solutions...the most advanced ballistic application to ever hit iOS and Android platforms.

    Personal contributions, lol:
    Begin with putting a "." behind every letter of my name and get back with me.....I have been in the ELR "Industry" for that long, lol

    Sincerely,
    Theis
     
    Last edited:

    Jamie C

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    May 29, 2020
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    Too big.
    Garage door.
    72”...to prove a point. Records are kept for farthest impact without connotation of target size. Some matches look better than others because they have larger targets farther out, making the larger targets there let people get towards the top of the list of ELR hits.
     
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    Tokay444

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  • Jun 24, 2019
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    So too big.
    Pull the targets back in, and make them a realistic size. People will have to learn to shoot better, and then begin pushing those targets back out.
     

    Jamie C

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    So too big.
    Pull the targets back in, and make them a realistic size. People will have to learn to shoot better, and then begin pushing those targets back out.
    Exactly! That’s the match director’s view as well.
     

    Clearlight

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    2 of my regular locations use 1 to 1.5 MOA targets, hard work on a windy day... Maybe a target standard size
    is something to be discussed, difficult to get people to agree on rules/ regs already though.

    Must have been windy at that comp looking at the scores, was it in Kansas? EDIT; just googled Spearpoint,
    they have pheasant hunts there; how about ELR pheasant targets? :)
     

    alamo5000

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    Jun 18, 2020
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    Looking at the score card, in #18 : For a given target, are fewer points awarded for each successive hit? Why not award increasing points to reflect value of confirmed repeatability? No hate, just curious. Maybe you only have to hit once, and you get fewer points for how many shots it took?
    If you are on a stage that takes 5 shots on a target you get distance times 5 for a first round impact. For a second round impact it's distance times 4, then 3 and so on.

    If it's 3 shots per target you do distance times 3, 2, 1.

    More rewards for first round impacts.
     
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    Jamie C

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    2 of my regular locations use 1 to 1.5 MOA targets, hard work on a windy day... Maybe a target standard size
    is something to be discussed, difficult to get people to agree on rules/ regs already though.

    Must have been windy at that comp looking at the scores, was it in Kansas? EDIT; just googled Spearpoint,
    they have pheasant hunts there; how about ELR pheasant targets? :)
    Winds were 13-18mph, with mid to high 20 gusts from 4-6:00. Cold...and a 2 hour fog delay.
     

    Tree

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    The FCSA is an international organization with chapters in England, Australia and Switzerland. It sanctions ELR matches here in the states including King of 2 Miles. All King bannered matches are FCSA sanctioned and the list of countries with King bannered matches is Canada, France, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, South Africa and England. So we are both an international sanctioning body and a sanctioner of international ELR matches.

    So your truth seems to be mostly an issue of lack of knowledge combined with an unrelentingly negative response to damn near anything in the sport. The fact that you are such a cunt contributes to the fact that virtually nobody in the industry is willing to come here. Not only do you contribute nothing to ELR, but you are actually hurting the sport by being a useless troll.

    -Alex
    As a representative of a “governing body” for a sport, one would expect a tad bit more professionalism. Maybe it’s just me but calling individuals cunts on a public forum really makes it tough for someone take said governing body seriously. Or care what they say. Just my opinion though.
     

    timintx

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    Wow all this world record stuff started by op again , I do not think Ryan called a world record but more of a first time ever and for that reason he is right . If Ryan is wrong can any of you tell me where in the whole world has this been done ? For that matter has there ever been a match that has had targets to 4100 yards? these were very difficult conditions and he did it within 5 shots ,so why all of the bashing? He did have to hit the 2 mile target to progress to the 4100 target . We had gusts up to 35 mph fishtailing towards the target so it was not an easy feat . Come on people !!! Give the guy a break.

    Tim in Tx
     
    Last edited: