• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

O/U 12g Shotgun Top Tier Recommendations

Barn Side

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 16, 2012
211
8
39
I’m looking at purchasing a high end shotgun primarily for clay target shooting (skeet, trap, sporting, etc. yet to settle on a discipline) but also for hunting waterfowl occasionally.
I’m tired of borrowing club guns and would like to buy once cry once. I’m looking for something with a 30 inch barrel, multi choke and adjustable comb. Currently looking at Krieghoff K80 parcours, Longthorne Sporter, Perazzi High Tech and Beretta sl3. Just wondering if anyone had experience with any of the above and what they would recommend?
 
Last edited:
Kolar, made in Racine Wisconsin currently makes the best o/u target guns in the World Today.
That's all they make is 12 gauge o/u target guns in a few forms for Trap, Skeet and Clays.
All the former competitive former competitive shooters I shoot with shoot a Kolar.
Most can still shoot a 25 at 70 tp 80 years of range/
One can actually visit or talk to person speaking
English at Kolar.
Ask for Shaun these days, third generation Kolar owner/management.
Been shooting a Kolar now for 20 years or so and just completed this Gun shown.
Two barrel set, 34" Unsingle Trap and 28" Clays barrels.
I would not go any lower than 30" for any Target barrel but these 28" Clays were from my previous Kolar.
Took about 2 months from start to finish.
Engraving done in Italy which is currently putting out the best contemporary real engraving.
CSMC is usually about 2 years for a bespoke gun.
Second Trap gun is in the works.
If you can make the trip to Kolar, do it and avoid a middleman for a custom fit and you can shoot in the Proof range for POI.
Any problem, walk right in and they will have a craftsman try to fix on the spot.
-Richard
 

Attachments

  • C706386C-8349-47C1-925F-9BE94C92FCE5.jpeg
    C706386C-8349-47C1-925F-9BE94C92FCE5.jpeg
    621.6 KB · Views: 260
  • E468C1DC-42C8-4342-9AC2-E547B49733E3.jpeg
    E468C1DC-42C8-4342-9AC2-E547B49733E3.jpeg
    567 KB · Views: 250
  • EF78F924-F08C-41DC-B051-723CFAC03292.jpeg
    EF78F924-F08C-41DC-B051-723CFAC03292.jpeg
    331.8 KB · Views: 431
Last edited:

I’m currently looking at a Kolar Max Lite Sporter.


Tbh I don’t see many Kolars amongst the top shooters here in Australia.
 
I went with a Caesar Guerini Invictus VII, there's nice review of the Invictus line by The Gun Shop (link below) on YouTube. If by some chance you decide to go that route hit me back up on PM, I can help. Good Luck!

P.s. No argument with the Kolar guy from me by the way; they're really in a whole other league. But if you're trying to stay in the $10K range I think Guerini is an excellent choice.



Invictus_VII_Sporting_action-left.png
Invictus_VII_Sporting_action-right.png
Invictus_VII_Sporting_bottom.png
 
Last edited:

I’m currently looking at a Kolar Max Lite Sporter.


Tbh I don’t see many Kolars amongst the top shooters here in Australia.

That's because Kolar is a very small American maker who likely doesn't have the marketing reach of Perazzi or Krieghoff.

Make no mistake, Kolar guns are second none.
 
Kolar makes a nice gun, not sure I would say they were the best but they do run with the other big names. Blaser also makes a nice shotgun, I used to have an F3 before getting a K-80 Pro Sporter which I still have. The most important ingredient for you will be stock fit. It would be well worth it to have the gun fitted to you, which Kolar and other makes can do, it will be money well spent.

Edit: if you can, go somewhere where you can shoot the guns you are interested in, most can be made to fit you well but you will only get a feel for the handling dynamics by trying them.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dbenner1184
Will probably get more answers if you post on a trapshooting/sporting clays forum. Try https://www.trapshooters.com. You should also be aware that a "do it all" gun will be something of a compromise. I've been shooting trap for about 3 years now and every serious trap shooter I know has a dedicated trap gun. The stock and the POI will be different than a sporting clays/skeet gun. I also know a couple of guys who shoot skeet and I believe they don't even shoot 12 gauge.

But as others have said, in your price range you're really looking at Perazzi, Kreighoff, Kolar, maybe a top of the line Beretta or Browning. Ideally you should at least shoulder, if not actually shoot anything before you buy it. Ultimately, the most important thing about any of the above guns is how they fit you. Also, I think Perazzi will custom make the stock to your specifications, which is something you should think about given how much you will be spending.

Again, the single most important thing about any of the possible options you are looking at is fit and whether the weight/balance of the gun works for you.
 
I’m looking at purchasing a high end shotgun primarily for clay target shooting (skeet, trap, sporting, etc. yet to settle on a discipline)
I'm an older guy who quit shooting NSSA Skeet as I have a bad back, blah, blah, whine, blah and have taken up scoped rifle shooting over the past couple of years.

But I do know some stuff about shotguns and while its possible to shoot all clay target disciplines with the same shotgun, you will generally not be optimized for either any or at most one, IMO.

For example, I have a K80 with 30" standard weight barrels and tube set. These heavy k-80s are know to swing like a telephone pole but they are great for American Skeet as once you get them moving they stay moving and skeet is a set piece game.

K-80 for trap will most likely have a different rib and be set up to shoot higher in general than skeet or SC guns.

I guess I'm trying to say that if you could better resolve the clay sport you intend to focus on, you will have an easier time selecting the shotgun you want.

I have both a K-80 and Kolar. They are both extraordinarily resilient and reliable shotguns. But they are different, to my mind they point and handle very differently, but both are top tier guns. Kolar, Perazzi, and Berettas, to my mind, handle a bit similarly when compared to standard weight K-80. Just depends on how you like the gun to handle.

I have not shot or handled Parcours barrels but I have an opportunity this next year to buy a K-20 and I have decided to go with Parcours because...I don't intend to make this a high mounted skeet gun (more like five stand and quail hunting). I do believe that the Parcours barrels have helped Krieghoff become more popular with the SC crowd than the barrel heavy standard weight K-80's.

K-80, Kolar, Perazzi, and even Beretta 68x action gun (which I have found to be the Timex watch of shotguns...they just keep on going...and I have one in the safe also) are all outstanding guns and you would be well served by finding opportunities to handle and shoot each as they different.

Oh, and the advise given above wrt to stock fitting is spot on....yes, it seems to me that precision rifle shooters are getting more into stock fit with adjustable chassis and adjustable combs on stocks....but this is key to shotgunning. But once again, the stock I would have made for trap (which I have shot a bit) is going to be a bit different than one I would have made for skeet.

Best of luck
 
Another thing you can consider as far as stocks go. There are a few “glove fit” stocks on the market now that offer a high degree of adjustability and better hand and finger positioning. They are a very polarizing look but they can work very well. I’ve owned the Ergosign EvoComp and the Grip+ (still using this one). The TSK looks interesting also but I’ve never shot one.



 
I’m looking at purchasing a high end shotgun primarily for clay target shooting (skeet, trap, sporting, etc. yet to settle on a discipline) but also for hunting waterfowl occasionally.
I’m tired of borrowing club guns and would like to buy once cry once. I’m looking for something with a 30 inch barrel, multi choke and adjustable comb. Currently looking at Krieghoff K80 parcours, Longthorne Sporter, Perazzi High Tech and Beretta sl3. Just wondering if anyone had experience with any of the above and what they would recommend?
You really need to shoot them all. Different handling characteristics.

After a long search and owning just about every name listed and a few more, I found my perfect fit with Zoli. Very Perazzi like with some of the best regulated barrels on the market, and IMO the softest shooting of the big name guns. Boss action. Yea fit is important. True casecolor not the cheap shit CG uses that flakes off. You can order them however you want and even go over to Italy to get fitted if you like.



You really can't go wrong once you get into the upper tier shotguns. Only you will know what you like, what feels good and what will give you pride of ownership.

The only brand I would stay away from is CG. I used to shoot them, shot with their team guys and they are IMO a bunch of flash and not much substance. I would rather have an older Beretta for half the price. They care more about a gun looking flashy than one that works. And this was someone who got them custom fitted at their HQ in Cambridge.
 
Last edited:
You really need to shoot them all. Different handling characteristics.

After a long search and owning just about every name listed and a few more, I found my perfect fit with Zoli. Very Perazzi like with some of the best regulated barrels on the market, and IMO the softest shooting of the big name guns. Boss action. Yea fit is important. True casecolor not the cheap shit CG uses that flakes off. You can order them however you want and even go over to Italy to get fitted if you like.



You really can't go wrong once you get into the upper tier shotguns. Only you will know what you like, what feels good and what will give you pride of ownership.

The only brand I would stay away from is CG. I used to shoot them, shot with their team guys and they are IMO a bunch of flash and not much substance. I would rather have an older Beretta for half the price. They care more about a gun looking flashy than one that works. And this was someone who got them custom fitted at their HQ in Cambridge.

Interesting. I have never shot a Zoli and have always thought that my Kolar was the softest shooting gun I have operated.

Course, stock was custom fitted by Jeff Mainland (and yeah, that was a number of hours standing by a belt sander trying fit…and trying fit…and trying…haha).

Butt pitch is IMO a key factor in comfortable shotgun shooting and seems to be the one that gets the least attention and is the least well understood.

Cheers
 
Always good advice from this forum; so far I’ve seen votes for Kolar, Perazzi, Kreighoff, Beretta, Browning, Caesar Guerini , Zoli and Perazzi. Which makes the clear winner . . . shoot everything you can and find the gun that fits you best. It’s no different than trying to choose a high end 1911. There’s a lot of them out there, all of them will get the job done and all of them will (most likely) outlive you.

Pick something that has value to you, don’t worry about what the “Pro’s” are using, (unless you’re being sponsored in which case we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation). There is no “perfect”, every gun on this list has some “flaws” or characteristics that won’t fit you as the shooter. All of them are excellent choices, all of them have their proponents and detractors and none of them are a bad choice.

It’s the same reason we don’t all drive the same car!

Happy Shooting!

[Edit] I've shot every gun listed (including Blaser which I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet), except for Perazzi. If I bought another O/U today I would go with Kolar, not least for the reason they are made in the U.S. Other than that I personally would be hard pressed find any real discernable difference between the others. As said, at this level there are really no bad choices.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hobo Hilton
In my mind there is one thing that sets Kolar above everything else.
A top competition shooter could shoot any of the mentioned shotguns and win, it just depends on who is paying them.
But as Posted having Jeff and the people at Kolar right there as you fit and configure your shotgun is a step beyond.
His son , Shaun, has taken over a lot of the day to day operation.
But Kolar has a Proof tunnel where you can shoot for POI and they will take you out to Wisconson sportsmen for actual shooting if wanted. Repairs are almost instantaneous and we have a part time Kolar guy at the Club that will fix/adjust your Kolar whenever he is there.
We generally shoot on Wed, 8am start or Sunday, 9am start if anyone wants to come out and talk.
Raggs is the wood guy and we are currently waiting for a new shipment of Claro for my next gun.
Of course for me it doesn't hurt that Kolar is 20 minutes away!
-Richard
 
  • Like
Reactions: powerspc
Just go all out. Book a trip to Italy and get fitted for a Perazzi. Have a fun trip!
 
But as Posted having Jeff and the people at Kolar right there as you fit and configure your shotgun is a step beyond.
His son , Shaun, has taken over a lot of the day to day operation.
But Kolar has a Proof tunnel where you can shoot for POI and they will take you out to Wisconson sportsmen for actual shooting if wanted. Repairs are almost instantaneous and we have a part time Kolar guy at the Club that will fix/adjust your Kolar whenever he is there.

To be fair and honest all the major makers will do the exact same, even without having to fly to Italy or Germany.

Kolar is near you, so they offer an advantage to you but that doesn't help the OP who lives half a world away.
 
But Kolar has a Proof tunnel where you can shoot for POI
Kreighoff USA in eastern PA also has a tunnel you can shoot and check POI.....I have used it. They are only a 3 hour drive from me and I have gotten very good and fast service from Krieghoff. I have taken a gun there, dropped it off and went for breakfast, and then picked it up the same day.

Dieter Krieghoff is one of the finest gentlemen in the firearms industry (IMO) and Alex Diehl (current operating President) is also a very fine fellow and was a paratrooper in the German Army prior to his civilian career.

This is not to criticized Kolar who has also given me very good service and I have always gotten along very well with John Ramagli who was running the show at that time and think the world of Jeff Mainland.

Just very different handling characteristics to my mind between these two.

Now, one advantage of the Kolar that I do like is the drop out trigger group. K-80 trigger, on the other hand, is the finest feeling shotgun trigger I have experienced but it looks like a clock work and I won't touch it. Goes to a smith every time.
 
"Kolar is near you, so they offer an advantage to you but that doesn't help the OP who lives half a world away."

I have no idea where the OP lives.
WE haven't seen Don at the Club in ages.
Rags handles wood and things and Jeff seems to float.
I've had a two bespoke guns made overseas and one turned out ok (Bruchet Darne) and one not so ok(AyA).
No direct experience with Kreighoff nor Perazzi.
The advantage Kolar has is that Kolar is made in the USA and so far it's the best I have shot as think many Club Members who are retired competitive shooters.
-Richard
 
Kreighoff USA in eastern PA also has a tunnel you can shoot and check POI.....I have used it. They are only a 3 hour drive from me and I have gotten very good and fast service from Krieghoff. I have taken a gun there, dropped it off and went for breakfast, and then picked it up the same day.

Dieter Krieghoff is one of the finest gentlemen in the firearms industry (IMO) and Alex Diehl (current operating President) is also a very fine fellow and was a paratrooper in the German Army prior to his civilian career.

This is not to criticized Kolar who has also given me very good service and I have always gotten along very well with John Ramagli who was running the show at that time and think the world of Jeff Mainland.

Just very different handling characteristics to my mind between these two.

Now, one advantage of the Kolar that I do like is the drop out trigger group. K-80 trigger, on the other hand, is the finest feeling shotgun trigger I have experienced but it looks like a clock work and I won't touch it. Goes to a smith every time.
Zoli has drop out trigger groups as well. Keeping a spare is never a bad idea, even though most of the major events have reps in attendance who can fix or update your gun for you.

Norbert who helped build Kreigoff USA into what it is today as well as Blazer, now is the US CEO for Zoli. I believe they are based out of Texas and anyone in the shotgun game knows of his reputation for going above and beyond for the shooter.

Guys who can afford this level, everything is so subjective. One guys loves slower guns like Kreigoffs and someone else likes fast guns like Blazer with Perazzi and Zoli being more in the middle. There is also nothing wrong with a nice DT11 or even a used DT10/ASE90. Some guy might like the engraving or casecolor on one gun, ect ect ect.

Its like asking what supercar should one buy? Options and opinions are endless.
 
Zoli has drop out trigger groups as well.
Very cool...didn't know that.

Keeping a spare is never a bad idea
My understanding is that this was/is common with Perazzi as I understand that there is a leaf spring in there (perhaps on certain models) that can break...not prone to breaking (well, perhaps not too prone)...but can break and nobody wants that in the middle of a tournament.

WRT to Kolar, when I bought my gun from them...went up there to Racine with John Shima...I brought up buying a spare trigger group and they said "absolutely not necessary" and if you have ever seen one pulled from the action then you understand. Fucker is built like a T-72 tank. Maybe you might hurt it running it over with a truck....but prob not with an F-150. Maybe with a 250 Super Duty! hahaha

Very different design approach to triggers by Krieghoff.

Yes, we do remember Norbert from when he was at Kreighoff...wow...that was a long time ago.

I remember when Blazer intro'd the F3...maybe??...for skeet. It never seemed to catch on and many that were bought were sold reasonably soon. I'm not sure why, but as we both know and discussed, different handling characteristic tend to be favored more in different clay games. Not sure what else beyond that. They do have very innovative engineering.

Cheers
 
My first Krieghoff was a K-80RT set up as a 30” sporting gun, it was a good pawn shop find. Shot the hell out of that gun, worked really well for me. I also had a Blaser F3 Super Sport that I shot well but the stock was far from ideal. When I wanted to move to the Erosign stock I hit a dead end, they wouldn’t inlet one for the K-80RT, had to choose to get a new K-80 or stick with the Blaser. The Blaser rib always bothered me, it was a wide, constant thickness rib, so I really wanted a K-80 Pro Sporter. Fortunately, I was able to get some decent trigger time with one my shooting buddy had. Sold the K-80RT to the local Cabelas for a nice profit and bought the K-80 I wanted (used), I still have it as my main clays gun. It shoots great for me in Sporting Clays and also in Bunker Trap.

Something to keep in mind when getting a high end shotgun is resale value. If you get a custom stock resale might take a big hit depending on how far off average dimensions you get. This is another reason stocks like the Erogosign, Grip+ and TSK (you can get a DT11 with one from the factory) are nice, you can get full customization without being lock into a fixed piece of wood. Also, your stock fit does change over time as you age and go up or down in weight.

One last thing. When trying different guns, try not to focus on recoil as a proper fit will make it a push for any brand. What you are testing is swing dynamics. I used to shoot with a guy who changed guns about once per year because he was always finding something the shot softer. He never had a stock fit properly and didn’t do much boyend tweaking the adjustable comb and minor shining on the butt pad. When I knew him he went from Blaser to Kreighoff to Zoli.
 
As far as the Blaser F3 goes, it was a pretty popular shotgun when I lived in the northwest. I knew a number of people that tried them and hated them due to being hard kicking, others had no problems. I think the issue is the stock design on the original low rib guns wasn’t very good. Supposedly, these stocks were designed and made by Wenig. The Pro Sporter seemed to be more popular. The one I had was nice but the stock was not ideal, I was able to make it work though. Many people I knew that shot them had custom stocks made.
 
My LOP is a US standard 14&1/4" and anything made to that standard fits me quite well.
My CSMC A10 20/28 set was Rose & Scroll with upgraded wood offered on the base set at a nice price.
I didn't get the custom stock dim's at a savings and saved a bit along with the pay upfront and former customer discounts, the price for the gun couldn't be beat. Gun shoots just fine.
But custom dim's are nice to have both in actuality if you are a different fit and physiologically/
Kolar used to throw in the upcharge for custom fit if you purchased at the factory, they of course are not selling at Dealer cost but list.
I'm really not that fussy with any weapon and tend to just shoot and ignore small things while not searching for the ultimate.
The only things I change on the factory gun is to have the barrel selector pinned to the bottom barrel for o/u receivers and the safety permanently OFF and the ejectors set to lift.
In 15 years of use, the only problem with my first Kolar was the trigger, which Kolar pulled and promptly fixed. Kolar wanted to sell me their new trigger but I let the old one ride.
So my new Kolar has the newer trigger and I'm not worried about the old trigger.
I LIKE wood and the gun pictured was from an exhibition Black Walnut blank that I had to write Raggs another check for.
Kolar mostly uses English Walnut and the Wood Room has them laid out in pricing tiers.
I went through the entire wood room and did not find a single blank, I liked.
Told Raggs I liked Win M21 wood with full feather and he pulled out this blank from a drawer in his office.
We are currently waiting on new Claro to make a final decision on the next gun which will have an adjustable stock because all my Trap buddies say I need one.
The current fixed stock works just fine for me.
BTW The Clays barrel are 28", probably too short as I went with a 34" Unsingle for Trap which I really like and points like a dream.
I also have a Superposed Lightening Trap that I shoot just fine, about 20% $ of the Kolar!!
-Richard
 
Last edited:
Like @Baron23, I came into precision rifle after a long period of American skeet competition. I just burned out, wanted to try something different. I had gotten to AAA classification in all four guns (12, 20, 28, .410) and learned the truth behind the saying "AAA is where everybody wants to get but doesn't want to be." Basically, that means running the hundred is isn't noteworthy; it's simply the prerequisite for getting to the dance - the tiebreaker shootoffs. You can shoot 99s all day long and, unless it's a lil'bitty shoot or the wind is howling, you'll sit on the porch with the rest of the losers.

Anyway. I have owned Brownings, a Beretta 687EELL, and a Kolar. My wife had a Krieghoff K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel set we found "used." Here's my $0.02 on all of them. As has been mentioned, proper stock fit is vital for comfort and consistency. I was 6'1", lanky, long neck, so I needed different stock dimensions from the 5'10" guy built like a tree stump.

Triggers: Mainly, the lower end guns have inertial triggers, wherein recoil resets the trigger to fire the second barrel. In a 12- or 20-gauge gun using subgauge tubes, they have to be set up just right to insure the .410's light recoil resets properly. The higher-end guns have mechanical triggers; recoil has nothing to do with their operation.

Finally, trigger feel across brands can be very different. For me, at the extremes, are Krieghoff and Kolar. The former, comparatively, has a tiny trigger which has a distinct sharp crispness to it, which can be tuned like a 1911 trigger. The Kolar's trigger is HUGE in comparison. Crisp but not as sharp.
  • Browning: Every one I've ever shot felt awesome at shoulder - but muzzle flip on recoil was a deal breaker. Every one of them delivered a painful whop to the cheek bone. I wasn't alone in that experience. Also, it's been over 30 years since I owned it. Citori. Good solid gun except that awful muzzle flip (factor of stock fit). But I know another guy, AAA-level shooter back in the day, who used a Browning 3-barrel set and never wanted anything more. Inertial trigger.
  • Beretta: The Timex watch analogy is a good one. The things just Keep.On.Ticking. I knew a guy who bought a well-used 682 and put over 100k rounds through it without a hiccup. For me, Berettas had a fair amount of muzzle flip, nowhere near as much as the Brownings. Inertial trigger.
  • Kolar: Massively overbuilt beast. Everything about them can be "refreshed" to maintain that just-broke-in tightness... but after five years and at least 50k shells through mine before I began backing away from skeet, it was still perfect in terms of overall tightness. The stock has more cast-off than most. Lower end guns have straight stocks; mine with right cast-off is "bent" a little. Wonderfully soft recoil, minimal muzzle flip... as long as you're right-handed. Lefties need left cast. Mechanical, removable trigger.
  • Krieghoff: In my years of competition, I saw more K80s than anything else among the higher-ranked shooters. They aren't as massively built as the Kolars. More similar to the Berettas in that regard. Wonderful guns - but they feel VERY VERY different than the Kolar.
OP really needs to actually shoot any gun - especially at the Krieghoff / Kolar price tier - before buying. My experience with Browning taught me that the static feel of a gun at shoulder can be VERY different than the feel when the trigger gets pulled!!!!!!!!!

Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baron23
Just go all out. Book a trip to Italy and get fitted for a Perazzi. Have a fun trip!
If you do, just don't watch what they do :) They have a big shooting site in CA now as well, but I don't know if they do fitting there. When I was shooting All American in the 80/90's Perazzi used to fly their guys from Italy to the Grand and if you bought a Perazzi there they would hand fit it to you for free. Which is a great option, but it's hard to watch a guy who doesn't speak english take your 1 hour old beautiful stock, talk to another translator, and then proceed to start whacking away on it with a chisel and wooden mallet. Granted you came back in two hours and it looked as good as new but it's a hard thing to watch a brand new gun go through. What was fun to watch though is they'd have the woman doing the engraving there all day and watching her engrave things freehand was something.

As for the topic, it depends on your goals and your game. A 32" 34" combo might be great for trap, but not skeet/sporting clays. If you're serious about trap you'll want a single barrel option. That said for giggles I've shot my 32" barrels in both skeet, olympic, and sporting clays and did fine for fun, even placing at the OTC for Junior Olympics. However you'll find that if you get serious the length, balance, POI, fit, stock offset/butt pad angles etc. are all going to be different to be ideal for those different sports.

Honestly these days there are so many good cheaper options that also have adjustability to me the biggest advantage to the "big $" players is durability. A good example of that is when I was shooting competitively I wore out the hinge in a Citori in 2 years, Browning tried to reweld it but it didn't work, needed a new receiver. I still own and shoot that Perazzi I bought in 89'. Also realize that shotgun sports are a social status game, these days a trap gun, good barrels, durability, chocks etc. isn't rocket science, Browning, Beretta, etc. can all make great guns if you are not running tens of thousands of rounds a year in them.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you told me today that I wanted to shoot trap, skeet, sporting, olympic, games and I had the choice between having one $15k Perazzi setup for one of those games, or a compromise between all of them, and 4 Beretta's that were set up perfectly for each of the sports and I was not shooting say 25,000+ rounds a year, I'd take the 4 Beretta's every time.

Also beyond that if you have not decided on a discipline, buy a nice 30" Citori/Beretta etc. don't spend over $3k, then take it to a good gunsmith and have them fit it to you. In a year you will figure out what game you really like and you will know how that 30" gun works for it (too light, too fast, too slow, wrong balance) and you can make a much better purchase decision when you drop the big $. I can tell you I've known a lot of guys that are getting into clay sports the last 30+ years, spend big $, and almost every one of them ends up switching guns in a year or two anyway because they didn't know enough to make an informed first purchase.

At the end of the day it's just like long range rifles, how many guys come into the sport, spend a ton of $ on a setup, and figure out in a year or two it wasn't what they really wanted/needed. There's always going to be some factor of "buy and try" in shooting sports, but the trick is early on when you know the least about what you want/need to minimise throwing $ away.
 
Last edited:
I certainly understand for most people who have not determined a discipline to shoot for purchasing a $3K gun.
It is nice to visit Kolar for a new gun and have them make the stock off your old gun.
Shaun has noticed some changes in the way I mount and after 15 years or so, we will change the new stock and if the changes are ok, then change the original gun/stock.
Part of the changes is from aging I believe.
Frankly I would like a Lighter gun and Kolar has not acceded to my request for a 20 gauge frame………yet.
But for now i am as happy as I ever get.
I don’t constantly change things and chase my tail.
-Richard
 
On a low budget note, I recently gave in to years of pestering to start shooting trap at my local club. A fellow member was nice enough to let me borrow his Ruger Red Label. Not knowing how long / far I'm going to ride this sport I ended up with an ATI Cavalry as a starter, not liking the idea of using someone elses tools. Fit and feel differences are obvious. Shot my first 25 after about 6 weeks. I used to think some high end rifles on here were costly......until I started looking into nice trap guns.

20220412_203748.jpg
20220416_064950.jpg
20220416_065012.jpg
20220416_064601.jpg
 
How is the Cavalry compared to the Red Label?
Lighter for sure. Doesn't seem to affect felt recoil too much. I'd liken it to the feel of closing a door on an old cheap car vs a new high end one. ATI is new and stiffer, Ruger is smooth and broken in. No doubt the Ruger is well made but that also comes at a cost. Scoring about the same with both.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SDBguy95
I used to think some high end rifles on here were costly......until I started looking into nice trap guns.
But once you have the Kolar, Krieghoff, Beretta... you're done. No $300-600 barrel replacement every year or two or five depending on caliber. They're about as low-maintenance as a firearm gets. Some people spend $$$ to have their shotguns inspected/"tuned" by a smith every year or two... my Kolar had probably 75,000 shells through it when I finally had a nationally-known smith give it a thorough examination. All he did was replace the hammer springs. He said the bottom firing pin had a very minimal amount of pitting but not enough to warrant replacement (and I have a spare anyway; Kolars are designed to be very easy to work on) and the gun was ready for another 100k rounds.

It's interesting how my perspective changed after I got into competition. Before that, I could buy a pound of powder, a few hundred primers, and 25 pounds of shot and I was good to go for several months. Afterward, that amount would cover practice and scored rounds for one big shoot. In general, the low-end guns just wouldn't hold up to 2000-10000 shells annually, year in and year out. Again, my knowledge is 20+ years old; through the '90s and early '00s when I was most active, Browning Citori was about as "budget" as you wanted to go. The Rugers, Stoegers, Franchis, etc. served to get people interested and were quickly left behind. I only knew two long-time, high-ranked shooters who stayed with Browning. Most, like me, graduated on up to Beretta and then to Krieghoff or Kolar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carlos Danger
Top-tier? Kreighoff, Kolar, Caesar Guerini, Fabarm, Browning Citori 725, Benelli, Beretta Luxury Collection, Sovrapposto Moderno, Fabbri, Peter Hofer, BOSS, Purdey, Holland & Holland, Greener, William & Son, Westley Richards... The list goes on. How much you wanna spend? 😂

I have an old Baikal IZH-27 engraved with 28" tubes from Russia, that my old man bought me over 20 years ago. Not the most expensive gun, but damn it's nice, and VERY well-built, hand-fitted (the lockup is still ridiculously tight after all these years and thousands of rounds), and quite accurate, too. It's slayed many a dove and powdered many a orange clay... And now that the Russian gun ban is on, I'm sure the value keeps going up. 👍🏼
 
I’m looking at purchasing a high end shotgun primarily for clay target shooting (skeet, trap, sporting, etc. yet to settle on a discipline) but also for hunting waterfowl occasionally.
I’m tired of borrowing club guns and would like to buy once cry once. I’m looking for something with a 30 inch barrel, multi choke and adjustable comb. Currently looking at Krieghoff K80 parcours, Longthorne Sporter, Perazzi High Tech and Beretta sl3. Just wondering if anyone had experience with any of the above and what they would recommend?
I’m shooting a K80 Parcours 34” and really like it. I run the thin wall chokes vs fixed. Was shooting a Kolar with 30” barrels. Those are really good guns as well. Had a chance to shoot a Longthorne yesterday at World English but ran out of time. They had 5 demo’s to try out. I’m a bit if a trigger snob and prefer mechanical over inertia. No mater what you buy, make sure it fits. I have all mine fitted by Jim Greenwood. If there’s a big tournament close to where you live, go there and demo these guns. It will help you make up your mind. Good luck!