Sweets 7.62 and a cleaning rod with a muzzle guide. I use brake clean on my gas system and action then lube with mobile 1. Do not lube inside the gas system. I use mobile 1 grease on my bolt roller.
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Ok I have a poll question M1A or AR10 SASS
- Thread starter 220 Swift AI
- Start date
Lay rifle on its side or upside down ( avoids solvent running into gas cylinder thru gas hole in barrel ) and clean barrel using your favorite method.
Remove gas piston and clean carbon with drill bits from piston and plug then put back together dry. A dab of never seize on the threads does not hurt.
The rest of the rifle gets synthetic grease applied to the inside receiver areas where the bolt makes contact ( receiver and lug areas ). Grease bolt roller and op rod pocket.Barrel area where op rod rides, guide,etc.
On my bedded guns I will pull the action once a year for a complete clean and grease or if I was in a down pour ( rain ) otherwise it gets greased well once a year and just the barrel cleaned as needed.
Do you say nice things to your M14 when you are doing all that? You know because it needs to feel loved, and it might get angry with you if it feels like it is not 100% appreciated.
Since I made wrote the post that started the drama, I'll keep it going a bit more. My SOCOM II will deliver one MOA at 100 yards w/ no problems. EricCartman, you're irrational, as well as unbalanced. BTW, you could stand to proofread your posts. It is obvious that spelling is not your forte. Maybe you could electrically engineer a bit of logic?
There's a thread on M14forum.com where people are posting 20rd groups (4x5rd each), so far only one guy has turned in all near MOA with a match conditioned rifle. Go tear it up with your socom.
At least his bullshit is reasonable. What about all the ar guys shooting .25" groups. My m1a holds around 2 moa with iron sights, my fault not its. I have found it consistently hits my target and that's what I want. I see guys with sub moa guns that put neat little groups on paper strike out consistently on the rifle golf course.
How does my bad spelling and lack of proofreading make your rifle better?
Now Cartmann is sad that you gave me poor spelling grades on Operators-Hide :-( Cartmann got all A's in every College Required English Course, but he knows that does not mean as much as WaterWalker Degree.
Cartmann Irrational? How? What part? Cartmann is one of the few people on this Earth that knows logic. Electrical Engineering is nothing but Logic, most Americans lack any kind of logic, that is why most Americans suck at math and Engineering.
Please discuss....
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my M1A match will shoot MOA easily all day long with my M118 Clone ammo, my AR 10's shoot between half and one MOA all day long with the same ammo.
You guys are too much, just get one or the other, or both, STFU and get out and shoot them ferkrissakes.
You guys are too much, just get one or the other, or both, STFU and get out and shoot them ferkrissakes.
Hurray! My sentiments regardless of whether <1, 1 or 1-2 MOA. The type of rifle is what it is with individual rifles better or worst. If the criteria is <1 MOA for a rifle then 75% of most bolt guns off the shelf need to scrapped. I have dozens of rifles from 22 Hornet to 416 Rigby, semi-auto, bolt, lever action, etc. They do what they need to do for my hunting purposes. I shoot paper only to develop loads for hunting. I am 71 and really do not kill paper very often. If the gun is not within REASONABLE accuracy for it's purpose then I would dump it. Have not had to yet.
We can't go on the INTERNET at NIGHT, or when we are out and about with our wives to talk about guns? Let me guess, you are one of those guys that are always shooting right?
As for 1 MOA gun....
Cartmann loves "1 MOA" M14 Discussions when talking about a Battle Rifle!
Cartmann needs all you cool kid Operators to teach him...
Remember, Cartmann is just a Hobbyist. He shoots, reloads, and smiths FOR FUN, and does not use his Rifle for Artic-SCUBA-diving-missions like all you Operators do..
What is the purpose of a 1-MOA M14?
From Cartmann's Hobbyist Research.. remember, Cartmann is NOT an Operator like all you cool kids here, he is NOT training for Missions all the time, so he actually has time to smith, read, and go shopping for components for his guns.
1) Tight Chamber means less reliable, and this is bad for a Battle gun.
A 1-MOA M14 means your M14 has a tight chamber. Military M14's were meant to have chambers on the looser side to help with extraction and feeding, as well as reliably go Bang when the M14 is dirty. SAAMI spec for .308 is only 4/1000 of an inch between GO and NO-GO. Military/NATO spec GO gauge is 1/1000 of an inch more than the SAAMI GO! So what the Military see as GO, SAAMI see as NO-GO. NATO Field Gauge is a whopping 15/1000" past the SAAMI Minimum GO. So as you can see, the Military could care less about accuracy, they only care about RELIABILITY. If you have a 1 MOA gun, most likely it will not be able to stand a couple of Muddy River Crossings in Nam.
2) M14 is a "Match" gun, it is NOT an Accurate gun.
Matches do not care about all out accuracy, they only care about you following THEIR rules. Shooting matches only care about ACCURACY if you follow THEIR Rules. Even the trigger pull has a minimum limit on Service Rifle matches.
3) If your M14 is a Match Gun, that means it's no longer a Battle gun.
Heavy Barrel and McMillan Stock now turns your M14 into a pig that few Infantry Riflemen would want to hump with.
4) Do you reload?
If you have a 1 MOA semi auto-gun, that means you are shooting match ammo or rolling your own. If you are not shooting quality bullets all the time, why is it so important to have a 1 MOA rifle? Military FMJ ammo can be up to 5-6 MOA and this is perfectly acceptable for the Military. If you are not reloading, you are already behind the game. Ammo is 50% of the accuracy.
Is this how you talk to yerself? I think you are going a bit off your rocker, that being said I share a lot of your sentiments on this subject, most people speaking on this subject lose site of teh fact that its the trigger puller and not the gun that determines who is left standing when the smoke clears. If MOA is good enough for big green its good enough for me in a battle rifle, bolt guns are a different ball game.
If you don't reload you are an unserious shooter or in the military where its not really common on the battlefield.
If you don't reload you are an unserious shooter or in the military where its not really common on the battlefield.
Cartmann was not talking to himself, Cartmann was talking to others.
Cartmann is a Hobbyist now, he is not in the Military... though he was.
1) There is more than just proper maintenance to prevent your weapon from jamming. If your headspace goes out of whack (like it can on a M14), it can also fail. Also Do you make all the ammo you shoot. Do you make your own powder and your own primers? Poorly loaded ammo can make a gun NOT cycle.
2) Gissele High-Speed Match! Can tune it down to 10oz for the 2nd Stage (like the one on Cartmann's AR10) and it will still reliably go Bang
3) I am pretty sure a .308 with the same bullet weight and velocity will feel the same to the Receiver. Cartmann has no idea though, he has not had first hand experience from either to compare. Cartmann just read about it, and Cartmann is going to take the papers word for it.
Please Discuss...
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A funny fool is still a fool. I read all of his posts in smeagols voice.
Please discuss...
well, if a queef is air releasing out of a vagina after sex one can surmise that air releasing after homo buttsex is similar in nature, so what is the correct terminolgy, discuss......
Thanks! I knew you would be able to explain! And do not worry.. Cartmann is friends of the gheys. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
This JUST IN: New article, in Shooting times! M1A Super uber match. Nice pic of a good 300yd. group. Author LOVES it. Shame it's going for just under $4 grand...................... Thought I'd throw another log, on the fire.
always nice to keep the fire going at the camp while having some friendly M1A vs. AR10 Discussion.
In the first part I thought the Army/Marines were supposed too issue all the gear for the rifle, I fail too see how this is the weapons failure? For a working gun you can bet your life on I think the M14 had a pretty good start being based on the success of the M1 Garand Action, unlike the unproven M16 that was adopted untested and also issued without cleaning gear these failure did cost lives. I think you forgot or overlooked that bit of history.
Not being a smart ass but I'm not familiar with CAG what is a CAG? 1911's why are some Marine units going back again if is its such a clunker?The M14 having the shortest term as a Service Rifle, I suspect you are unaware of McNamara's hatred for Springfield Armory/Army Ordinance his view was that they were a monopoly and under the influence in full or in part of the big New England firearms manufactures. I find it ironic that Colt was awarded the largest of the M16's contract production almost making them the sole producer, very few rifles were made by GM Hydrodynamics division. I guess old Bill had too pay back his buddies in Detroit still, remember a favor lent is a favor owed? And the reason you don't see M14/M1a's on the firing line is that its not the current Service Rifle, most comp shooters want too be like or emulate Gi Joe that accounts for most of the rifles popularity. The SR-25 was well known too beat itself too death, you could argue that David Tubb enjoys some success with it for the two/three years he used it but it wasn't in Service Rifle configuration. He choose too set it up as a Match Rifle in .243 and 7mm08 and still couldn't keep it running. SCAR17 is that a general issue weapon?
I admit I have Zero combat experience with either weapon I guess I'm a lowly dirt shooter in your eyes and my dirt duty experience counts for nothing, but how much experience in combat do you have with either weapon? and at the time did you have a choice? I bet you did not have the option so that answer is a NO, I bet that when/if they handed you what you felt/thought was a beater weapon and if you dared voice your displeasure about it you were told too STFU use the tools and make due what you were handed. Just like every Grunt/Dog Face.
I'm not fan boi of SEI, and as you said the M14 had the shortest life of any Service Rifle, but I wonder if the M14 enjoyed near 50 years of updates like the M16/M16a2/M16a3/M4 has I wonder where we would be now? And the Army did learn a lesson the Army way not issuing cleaning kits with early rifles and it wasn't a bloody nose either..........
Yea, I think I wrote that...................
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Phil, you probably know Different (aka Lee). I use to converse with Different a lot on many forums, also been to a couple of M14 shoots with him in Vegas.
I too love the M14 (not as much as the Garand though), but you have to admit, your love for the M14 seems to give some facts while omitting others.
I too love the M14 (not as much as the Garand though), but you have to admit, your love for the M14 seems to give some facts while omitting others.
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I guess I am doing it all wrong. I should be using the M14 with a Pencil Barrel for a Precision gun! Instead I built a Precision prone/bench gun that is 19lb gun with a 29" MTU Profile barrel.
The Cartmann MK03-Darryl-Lamonica 7mm RSAUM
Darryl Lamonica, the Mad Bomber, was not every mobile (like this rifle), but he had a strong accurate arm that could reach deep and with precision (just like this rifle)
Caliber: 7mm SAUM
Remington 700 Long Action (Magnum Bolt Face, +/- .540")
AI Magazine - Lapua Magnum Length (so can hold loaded rounds with 3.085" COAL)
Kreiger 28.5" Barrel, MTU Contour
Barrel Reamed by Velocity Plus (Tim Arnold) with a PTG Reamer to run 180gr Berger VLDs with aprox 3.085" COAL (when bullet is seated .005" off the lands)
McCree Folding Stock
Jewell Trigger
Sako Extractor
Velocity Plus Bolt Knob
NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 MOA/MOA Zerostop/HS
Primary Arms High Rings
EGW 30 MOA base
NO PAINT (yes it is going to stay this way, and yes I know it gets hot in the desert and cold in the winter). I will just use gloves and cheek piece
Weight as Pictured: 18.5 lbs
Bonus Picture: Handsome Guy in the background also included in this picture for your viewing pleasure. Weaver Scope was on gun but Swapped scope to NF.
Up close
Reloading stuff
7SAUM next to .308
I have not shot her at distance yet, but at 100 yards, this rifle is a same hole gun.
- She really likes 62.5 gr of H1000.
- All cases are full sized with Shoulders bumped back .005" compared to fireform brass (measured with Hornady Comparator).
- Bullet is seated to .005" off the lands (approx 3.085" COAL)
The Cartmann MK03-Darryl-Lamonica 7mm RSAUM
Darryl Lamonica, the Mad Bomber, was not every mobile (like this rifle), but he had a strong accurate arm that could reach deep and with precision (just like this rifle)
Caliber: 7mm SAUM
Remington 700 Long Action (Magnum Bolt Face, +/- .540")
AI Magazine - Lapua Magnum Length (so can hold loaded rounds with 3.085" COAL)
Kreiger 28.5" Barrel, MTU Contour
Barrel Reamed by Velocity Plus (Tim Arnold) with a PTG Reamer to run 180gr Berger VLDs with aprox 3.085" COAL (when bullet is seated .005" off the lands)
McCree Folding Stock
Jewell Trigger
Sako Extractor
Velocity Plus Bolt Knob
NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 MOA/MOA Zerostop/HS
Primary Arms High Rings
EGW 30 MOA base
NO PAINT (yes it is going to stay this way, and yes I know it gets hot in the desert and cold in the winter). I will just use gloves and cheek piece
Weight as Pictured: 18.5 lbs
Bonus Picture: Handsome Guy in the background also included in this picture for your viewing pleasure. Weaver Scope was on gun but Swapped scope to NF.
Up close
Reloading stuff
7SAUM next to .308
I have not shot her at distance yet, but at 100 yards, this rifle is a same hole gun.
- She really likes 62.5 gr of H1000.
- All cases are full sized with Shoulders bumped back .005" compared to fireform brass (measured with Hornady Comparator).
- Bullet is seated to .005" off the lands (approx 3.085" COAL)
No they did not issue all the gear, what good does that do the squad? Now you not only have a different weapon that identifies someone in your squad as special (sniper magnnet) but you get none of the additional capability of the 7.62 round, extended PID/engagement range with manfified optics, and now have a guy in the squad carrying non standard gear that doesnt cross level across the unit. The m14 is not a piece of shit, its a decent gun but it was even obsolete for its time. That is one of the main reasons it was shitcanned so fast. M14 is a liability in combat. Comparing the M14 to an Early M16 is not really relivent here.
CAG is Delta or whatever 1SFOD-D called themselves at one time or whatever. Members of that unit , including their master pistol instructors and builders have talked about this in depth over the years. At the time, the used the 1911, beacuse it was the most accurate service pistol they could run (reports that 1/2" @ 50yards was what the benchmark was). Eventualy even with their vast logistical and finanical support, they gave them up in favor or glocks or whatever they use now (probally glocks and HK45's like DEVGRU) beacuse they were keeping an expensive, hard to maintain , obsolete platform alive. Afterall, its a sidearm, not a primary weapon. Those guys are all some of the best combat shooters in the world, so they quickly find out what works , what doesn't, and what needs to be improved upon. I really have no idea why MARSOC chose that 1911, it had alot of people scratching their heads. Early guns have frame crackings and other issues but have since been revised.
Colt owned the rights to the M16. They were also one of the oldest and most presegious firearms manufactures in the country. They had the capacity and techical expertise to build it. I actualy was issued a A1 overstamp Hyrdomatics in Boot camp and well aware of various companies including H&R that produced them. It was common back then for Military arms to be made by various companies, to diversify and spread the love. Take a look at the number of companies that made M1carbines.
I think alot of your beliefs are shrouded in myth. Most comp shooters would shoot giant pink dildos if it resulted in them hitting the X ring every time. People follow what works. The M16 has made the M14 obsolete for comps (unless the rules are doctored to favor the M14) and the SR-25/Ar10 have made the M14 completely obsolete in everything but nostalgia.
Where are you getting this Sr-25's (Large frame AR's specificaly) are well known to beat their selves to death? They are the standard platform that all other's are measured by. In fact, if CMP were to rule today that AR10/SR-25 were legal for their gun games within a year or two EVERYONE would be shooting a Large Frame AR... or atleast those who want to win.
SCAR17 is a general issue to SOCOM units. Most use them, some don't. Its a great platform and advancement in US military small arms, but has a few issues. I anticipate within the next 5-10 years it will have been fixed/mitigated and it will be a mainstay. It really is an amazing piece of firearm engineering.
I was not issued one, buy guys in my squad/platoon were. It was not a 1 for 1 exchange with an M16/M4. Most guys who were issued it , used it for a while and quickly realized it didn't do what it was issued for, and they lived in the armory. More fortuante units were issued AMU MK12 style guns or the DMR package of a M4, TA31F and Harris Bipod on KAC rails. I didn't carry them, but if I had the choice between an equiped M14 with quality mount (which were impossible to find) and a decent optic, I would have still chosen to take a M4/M16 with optic and bipod over it. Easier to make hits at the typical DMR range of 300-600 yards with a M16 and a M14.
The m14 just does not have the same interchangability and plug and play features of the AR. It's not a knock against it, its just a testiment on how amazing the AR design really is. It is only getting better every year. There is very little that can be done to make it(m14) better other than a new stock. IMO, it was a piss poor stop gap that was the result of Money and not common sense. They thought they could save money by issuing Free guns sitting in depot, instead of procuring a new weapon system or moderizing the current ones.
Yes I know Lee, not in person however just from the Forums. I know he lives in Lost Wages, NV. My like/dislike of the M14 and its clones is besides the point, I didn't omit any more facts than Mr. Cobra Cutter did in his prior posts that's why I quoted each I had issue with and then address them so. In the sense of fair play he has returned the same, I believe this is called a conversation? However I believe somewhere along the way this turned into a argument over "THIS is BEST" and f-ck the rest.......
Mr. CC is entitled too his point of view and he maybe able too point out all or even some the M14's faults, I too can point out the faults and shortcomings of the M16 just as good as anyone. Is one better than the other? I don't think so, is the M14 obsolete I don't think so either. The M14 maybe long in the tooth but the sun hasn't set on it just yet.
Once a Rifle is set up, it tends to be good to go. However, the AR10 beats the M14 in all aspects and anyway you look at it, from building, to accuracy, to ease of smithing, etc.
However, we all have a right to love any rifle we want. So Love on!
It's not a matter of updates the AR is just a better design where accuracy and production are concerned. Just the way it is and why there are lots and lots of companies producing ARs, many with MOA or better accuracy guarantees, and only a 3-4? companies producing M1A rifles.
....and those 3 or 4 companies are doing OK apparently and still in business.
(If you are in Canada you also have the choice of the forged receiver guns from Asia)
I am not anti-AR ( I have a SIG 716 ) but both designs / rifles have their own merits, limitations and are very different tools with overlapping capabilities. Both rifles in stock form have comparable accuracy and both can be tweaked into better accuracy. A chimpanzee can put together a pink AR on a kitchen table, the M14 / M1A takes the correct tools and knowledge to complete a rifle. If this appeals to you then get a stack of bananas and build AR's.
I will take my piston guns and maybe a banana milkshake.
As to the manufacturing ease the rifle with the fewest parts and least amount of fitting is the cheaper one to build.
I never compared the the parts count difference but its a moot point anyway because I am an end user and not in the business of manufacturing for re-sale.
(If you are in Canada you also have the choice of the forged receiver guns from Asia)
I am not anti-AR ( I have a SIG 716 ) but both designs / rifles have their own merits, limitations and are very different tools with overlapping capabilities. Both rifles in stock form have comparable accuracy and both can be tweaked into better accuracy. A chimpanzee can put together a pink AR on a kitchen table, the M14 / M1A takes the correct tools and knowledge to complete a rifle. If this appeals to you then get a stack of bananas and build AR's.
I will take my piston guns and maybe a banana milkshake.
As to the manufacturing ease the rifle with the fewest parts and least amount of fitting is the cheaper one to build.
I never compared the the parts count difference but its a moot point anyway because I am an end user and not in the business of manufacturing for re-sale.
I am not seeing it. There is nothing a M14-type can do that a AR10 cannot do better. However, we all have the right to choose to love whatever we want. If Rosanne Barr can find love, I am sure the M14 can to!
yeah I too love my M14 types. For me love is NOT blind though, I don't need to make excuses for my M14-type for me to love it. I know the M14s weaknesses, and when I compare my M14s to my AR10s, I can see that the M14 lacks in every single area, I mean every single one. However, that does not STOP me from loving my M14's less.
It seems most people can't have UNCONDITIONAL love like Cartmann does. They need reasons to love, so what they do is MAKE-UP a list of reasons why they love their M14. This helps them love their M14.
I have 9 ARs, could use about 3 more AR's. One 7mmSAUM 20", another 300 BLK 8.5-10", maybe a 260 Remington in 16".
I myself think 1 M1A is enough. Mine is 21" with Wood Stock and iron sites.. be cool if it was 18", but I don't shoot it enough where it matters. 16" M1A is too short, can't really use factory components without modifying the gas system. AR10 barrels from the factory of any length, comes with the gas system all ready to go to properly cycle.
I normally get into AR10 vs. M14 Discussions at least 3 times a year. I guess it's a slow year? Anyways, AR10 all day long.
As a HOBBYIST AMONG OPERATORS, here is my Hobbyist view of things.
1) AR10's come with a Scope mount included:
This is huge! A quality scope mount on a M14 will cost you about $200, and even if you do get a mount, they come loose quite often. A M14 receiver tries to twist it off. AR10, the mount can't come loose (because it's part of the upper receiver). Another problem you will find with a scoped M14 is cheekweld, actually it's more of a shoulderweld.
2) Bolt swap on an AR10 is easy:
On an AR10, just crack her open and put in the new bolt. With M14's, a bolt swap is a complicated process. Once you put in your new M14bolt, you have to lap the bolt and time the barrel to get that "magic headspace". If you have a Smith do it, he will charge you a pretty penny.
3) Barrel Swap is easy on AR10:
With an AR10, all you do is unscrew the old barrel, and screw in new barrel. No magic headspace needed. The barrels come pre-headspace from the factory. With M1A's, you have to find the "magic headspace" after you install a new barrel by timing the barrel and lapping the bolt.
4) Better Parts availability for AR10:
You can get everything for an AR10 directly from the manufacturer if you have to. With M14's, parts are not evn available from the Mfgr, and on top of that, surplus USGI parts are not really easily available anymore. Extractors, bolts, BCG, buffers, are easy to get for the AR10.
5) Better Aftermarket accessories for AR10:
For AR10s. the choices for triggers, stocks, and forends is endless. How about a nice trick barrel for an AR10? Yep, your choice. Noveske, White Oak, Schillen, etc, and you can install the barrel yourself without trying to figure out the magic headspace. Also, try getting a nice trigger for an M1A, tell me how that works out for you.
6) AR10 has the better chassis:
Reason AR10 has a better chassis is because it does not have one! It has an upper and lower, and with the correct forend/rails, you can easily FF the barrel assembly. A quality Chassis for the M1A will run you about $700.
7) AR10's are inherently more accurate:
AR style locking lugs and naturally FF barrel, you will find that it takes a lot less work to make an AR10 accurate.
8) AR10's are easy to Smith:
You can do everything on the AR10 yourself. Bolt swap, barrel swap, extractor swap, etc. No "magic headspace needed". If an AR10 does go down, they are easy to get back up. Lots of little parts on the M14 that can fail, and when they do, it's not easy to replace them and get the gun working again. Both the M14 and AR10 are fairly reliable, but what makes the AR10 10 times better than a M14 is that you easily get it up and running easier when it does break.
9) AR10's can handle hot rounds better
Hot rounds are not a problem with the AR10, the AR10 laughs at hot rounds. With M14, all it takes one hot round and say hello to Mr. Bent Oprod. A bent oprod on a M14 will turn your M14 into a club. USGI Oprods for M14's are no longer available, and even the cheap ones go for about $200. M118LR was actually loaded lighter because all the combat M14's were getting beat up.
10) AR10's does not beat up brass as much as an M14. The AR10 can get about 10 reloads from one case (LC case). The M14 beats up brass so much that you would be lucky to get 5 reloads. #10 is really for reloaders only. I know all you Operators are too busy training and do not have to reload.
11) AR10's look better.
This should be #1. Looks matter! Looks are everything.
The Cartmann .308 Family:
^^^ This is awesome and much appreciated! Thank you for breaking things down into simple terms for us hobbyists and new guys!
....torn on whether I should sell my M1A SOCOM and get another AR-10.....I have 5 AR-15's, and 2 AR-10's (PoF 20 inch and LMT MWS coming soon)
Nah, I'll keep it. Then when I shoot like crap I can blame my rifle and not be a COMPLETE LIAR
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^^^ This is awesome and much appreciated! Thank you for breaking things down into simple terms for us hobbyists and new guys!
....torn on whether I should sell my M1A SOCOM and get another AR-10.....I have 5 AR-15's, and 2 AR-10's (PoF 20 inch and LMT MWS coming soon)
Nah, I'll keep it. Then when I shoot like crap I can blame my rifle and not be a COMPLETE LIAR
It was easy, that was a "canned post". Have been using that canned post for years (after playing with both platforms for years).
I am shocked that the Mods has not banned me yet at this point. Normally they like to play Nazi, they roundup and execute everyone who gets "reported" from the sheep. Sheep that do not know how to attack the subject, sheep that only know how to hand out personal attacks.
When Cartmann gets personally attacked, all Cartmann does is hand back LOVE and yet he is the one that gets banned :-(
Well there is Long Range shooting, the AR10 has the shorter sight radius and a shooter barrel these are not good for the LR game. The AR10 maybe able too digest stiffer loads but if they don't have enough barrel length its a moot point don't you think?
Arguing with cartman is pointless. He just going to run around blithering in circles.
Like I said, not issuing the proper gear is not the weapons fault, The M14 being a liability in combat? seems too have done pretty well everywhere it gone so far, and comparing too the early M16 is FAIR GAME. Making the claim that the M14 is junk because its old it hog wash the M16 when it was new was trash back then, the M16 has enjoyed 50+ years up updates. I agree that the DMR man has gear that that doesn't cross over but the Machine Gunner is in the same boat. I agree the ARMY's Crazy Horse and the RI-EBR makes the shooter look out of place, but the Marine's M14-DMR in the McMillan syn E2 doesn't.
Cobracutter91913 said:
Maybe they were doing some type of T/E on different pistols. However when Uncle Sam is spending our hard earned tax dollar on the best I find it funny they returned too a 100+ year old design like the 1911 and added a few rails too it and its modern/fresh and new..... Yes I knew that the MARSOC 1911's had slide issues they were traced too old NM slides(Colt/Drake) that had unknown number of rounds fired threw them, replacements were sourced threw SAI problems solved.
Cobracutter91913 said:
Well McNamara hated Springfield Armory, it was his belief that SA was under the spell of New England Firearms makers a monopoly if you will. With this said M14 production used 3 companies Winchester, H&R and TRW. This kept a lot of people working. Once the big Three got going into full production SA was going too step away and move on too the next project. The M16 was going too be done by 3 makers as well with more coming one line in the future across the states, Colt, GM Hydromatic and H&R. Well how long did GM and H&R make the M16 not long thus making COLT the sole rifle producer so much for breaking the monopoly all he did was trade one so called monopoly for a real one for many years, until FN moved into South Carolina. Colt's early technical expertise? gee are you kidding me? do they chrome just the chamber or the chamber and the bore?
Cobracutter91913 said:
Myths, you say??? No sir, 95% of all shooters will shoot whatever the Big Teams are using and that's a FACT weather the accuracy is real or perceived nothing more.
Cobracutter91913 said:
Yes, David G. Tubb used a SR/25 in NRA High Power Shooting set up a Match Rifle chambered in both .243 for Across the Course and 7mm08 for Long Range, common failures were broken bolt stops, blown out buffer tubes and broken front hinge lugs. Extra meat was added too the front hinge, Dave came out with Carrier Weight System and Flat Silicone Springs, after 2 or 3 season he gave up on it and designed his own rifle.
Cobracutter91913 said:
I'm sure it is a marvel of modern machinery so was the M16 when it came out. Knowing the Army they will jump on it and the next 50 years debugging it at tax payer expence. Some using it, and some not doesn't make it a General Issue weapon, I think you agree...............
Cobracutter91913 said:
So like me, your actual combat experience with the M14 or DMR is Zero? While I'm not a Infantryman and the 4 most common complaints they make are #1 its old thus it has too be worn out, #2 Dame this is heavy #3 This thing kicks like a mule. #4. I gotta get something smaller, newer and that doesn't kick so hard like my old M16. Anyway you do know what the DMR role is, so what were the fella's using it for that they came too the decision that it wasn't the right tool?
Cobracutter91913 said:
While it doesn't have the interchangeability it is a flexible weapon platform, and while you think putting it in a new stock is a waist it is better spending Billions on a new weapons system in the middle of a shoot war.
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1) AR10 can go 26" barrel if you want. That is 4" longer than the M1A.
2) sight radius is a moot point with long distance, you should be using high magnification optics for long distance and not iron sites.
Please discuss...
Cartmann is not arguing, he is only getting in a discussion. If you can't argue the points that Cartmann makes, please feel free to attack him personally, after all that is the norm around gun forums.
Cartmann fully supports you guys attacking the person and not the subject, Cartmann wants you guys to do whatever it takes for you guys to feel good about yourself. Cartmann is here for you guys.
EC, before you just throw out the AR10 can use a 26 barrel what class of shooting are you going too fit this rifle in? Match or Service Rifle you have too keep it apples too apples. You could put a 26in tube on a M14/M1a just the same.
On to Optics, so no its not a moot point? what are we shooting in Any Rifle Any Sight? and yes there are shooters that shoot irons at long range and they post some pretty high scores without glass. Or Service Rifle irons sights only?
Just got in from shooting my obsolete piece of shit m1a and the wonderful 24" ar-15. We had some big wind, so our bullets were drifting way off. Its funny, watching that 175 smk hit the gong and then watching the 69 gr custom competition splash 3 feet to the side.
I don't think its lost. I just think with this new wave of wonderful toys its getting pushed into the background. I know plenty of guys shooting simple old fashioned guns for nothing more than the joy of making a old girl put out again. Just because all you see on the news these days is crap about gays doesn't mean they are a majority now, they just get all the press. Being a sniper is super hip these days and we all know how much Hipsters love blingy toys.
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