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Advanced Marksmanship Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

is this believable or not? there was someone on another board that was claiming how good he was so i challenged him to shoot this target at 100. i told him he could use what ever caliber he was comfortable with and he apparently chose a .22 mag out of a 77/22. i am not going to get into the fact that the holes look a like they could have been faked since i have no idea what his target backer was. i do really find it hard to believe that there is about 1/8" horizontal spread and less than 1/4" vertical in 15 rounds. maybe he is that good. i really doubted it by the way he was talking about "lapua can take you head off at 800 yards" and how awesome an accuracy international was by pretty much repeating what wikipedia said. i guess i took him for a gamer but maybe i was wrong. if i am wrong about this guy, i owe him an apology.

target2.jpg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

If you didn't watch him do it, how hard would it have been to strap his rifle into a rest for each shot.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

i didn't watch him do it and i didn't specify that it couldn't be strapped to a bench. i guess i just assumed it would be done with a person shooting the rifle. either way, would a .22 mag be that consistent at 100 strapped to a bench?
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I dunno, I used to have a 10/22T that was shooting just over 1" groups at 100, no wind of course.

Maybe he didn't shoot it at 100. I could definately do that at 25 with my 10/22T.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

i read some more of his response about that target. he admitted it was hard because the crosshair covered up the dot. he could hit the dot but "couldn't control where the bullet went in the dot"
laugh.gif
. now i really find it hard to believe that he actually got them all in the dot without even seeing the dot.

i asked him some more questions about his rifle's barrel, loads, scope. i asked if it was prone, bench, bipod, sandbags or a vise. i also asked if he competes and what type of comps if so. we'll see what he answers. i am going to feel stupid if i am wrong about this though.
whistle.gif
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

it's certainly not likely if he shot the target the intended way, from the ground, with bipod and rear bag. even with a 3 point mechanical rest i would have called bullsh*t unless he shot indoors. bottom line is he cheated by our standards. and your right, it does look like he punched out the holes with a blunt rod. notice how dot 14 (directly north of zero dot) shows no impact residue around the hole despite being so close to the dots edge. yet dot ten (11 o'clock from dot 14) does have residue. also dot 4 (top right corner) has an odd impact shape for the blunt nosed 22mag. i call bullsh*t.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
what scope is on it? </div></div>


4-16x50mm Center point, it was a cheapo $80 scope, but it's good enough.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted by 300sniper
what loads were used? </div></div>


CCI 40 Grain jhp, that's the only load that shoot's worth anything in the gun, everything else I've tried I can't get it to hold a pattern.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
what barrel? </div></div>


Stock barrel.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
trigger? </div></div>


Stock trigger, however I did fine tune it to drop the horrendous 4 1/2 lb trigger pull down to 1 3/4 lb.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
also, how were you shooting? prone bipod? bench sandbags? rifle locked down in some sort of bench rest sled? indoor or outdoor range? </div></div>


On the ground with a bipod, left hand under the butt of the stock. It was outdoors, however the wind was not blowing at all, I mean no wind period.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
rifle locked down in some sort of bench rest sled? </div></div>


That's ghey.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted by 300sniper
do you compete? </div></div>


No.</div></div>

his response to my questions. i think i am pretty safe in my "bullshit" assumption.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Sorry guys but I'm not computer savvy. Every time I try to get this to print , the dot's are 1/2". What am I doing wrong?????
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<span style="font-size: 17pt"> <span style="font-weight: bold">I CLEANED IT</span>!</span>

After shooting this I packed it up, went home and started drinking
smile.gif
The last four shots took a long time because I was afraid I would blow it.

3044929748_69ca25e18a.jpg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

good shooting
super Bee 950 thats a target to be proud of
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

i am proud of this one. hornady 168 bthp, hornady brass, 43 gr rl-15, with win primers shot out a savage model 10 308 with a 24" barrel.

11-22-200853652PM.jpg


 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots


I got out Friday 11/14 and worked my SPS .308 on the dots again. Also worked a load
in my 30-06 that did not go too well!

From my .308, the target reveals that my rifle seems to like the Hornady
168 gr AMAX over 42.3 grains of RL-15. Started well but the two minute range
call came after the 9th dot (which was my first miss if you allow 4, 5 and 7
as hits; they touch black!) then I rushed the next three before settling down and finishing better. One day I may hit them all!

JR,

I'm forced to shoot from a bench at my range as you know. I'd love to be allowed to shoot this (and any other target) from the ground. I'll look into who's ass I have to kiss over at WAC to see if they'll let me shoot at the competition range.

Target1111508.jpg





Edited by queequeg (11/19/08 02:50 PM)
_________________________
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Not 'the' target, but a different practical exercise (Frank: sorry but the full target's too big for a decent pic): Set up at 400; fire five shots at 400 including the cold-bore; pack up and move; one sighter if desired then five shots at 500; pack up and move; then five shots at 600. The time limit includes packing-up, moving, and unpacking both times. Wind was 7 gusting 15.
IMG_1908.jpg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I can't wait to try this.

But I want to see Lowlight's target.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

JR,

I'm forced to shoot from a bench at my range as you know. I'd love to be allowed to shoot this (and any other target) from the ground. I'll look into who's ass I have to kiss over at WAC to see if they'll let me shoot at the competition range.
</div></div>

that's a heck of an improvement over the last target. nice shooting. good luck getting on the ground at WAC. as i understand it, it's sucking not kissing you need to do. not really worth the hassle. we still need to get together one of these days.

J
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is this believable or not? there was someone on another board that was claiming how good he was so i challenged him to shoot this target at 100. i told him he could use what ever caliber he was comfortable with and he apparently chose a .22 mag out of a 77/22. i am not going to get into the fact that the holes look a like they could have been faked since i have no idea what his target backer was. i do really find it hard to believe that there is about 1/8" horizontal spread and less than 1/4" vertical in 15 rounds. maybe he is that good. i really doubted it by the way he was talking about "lapua can take you head off at 800 yards" and how awesome an accuracy international was by pretty much repeating what wikipedia said. i guess i took him for a gamer but maybe i was wrong. if i am wrong about this guy, i owe him an apology.

target2.jpg
</div></div>

My $0.02 I mesured the dots on my monitor at .315 and the holes at.085
next i devided to arrive at 26.9%
next I entered 1/2 inch dots .5 X .26 arriving at .130

I call 1/8 inch welding rod!
YMMV

I don't suppose this guy's is a welder is he?

everyone else good shooting
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Yeah, I was kinda leaning in the "holes are way to friggen small" direction when I saw that also.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

sigh guys i still cannot print these for some reason? do i have to use special paper or what? im not very technologically capable when it comes to printers...
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BadBot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I call 1/8 inch welding rod!
YMMV </div></div>
Lame!

What would "The Hide" consider an acceptable distance for this target with a .22LR?
Nothing tacticool, Marlin 925R w/ a 4X32 Bushnell scope bulk ammo, probably Blazers. I just haven't had the time to drive to the range. It's over an hour one way. I can shoot this in the forest near my house. So it will be field position. Seated supported w/ "hasty" sling. I could shoot prone off a ruck or elbow supported.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

50 yards should be a good training distance for a 22LR. as you get better and consistently clean the target, move it back to 75, then 100.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">just hit the print icon at the top of the screen </div></div>

yeah but then the circles are under half an inch...im not THAT good now
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

download pdf from page 1

google pdf reader - download - install - open - print
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I lost this thread so I quickly printed up my own version..

Shot this with my 40X in .22lr at 60yds (max available)
SHPT40x22lr120508.jpg


It looks easy... but...
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I shot this today with my 300 Win Mag TRG42. The previous targets were shot with my TRG22 in 308

I dialed up one click since I saw a pattern at 6 0 clock, and then BLEW the next shot (its obvious what one) After the cusing I took the adjustment out and things went well....

3087505639_f280a16b42.jpg


 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Thanx for the Targets L.L. I look forward to trying them out. Always fun to toss something new in the works. By the way....Nice targets fellow's! Didn't see nothin to be ashamed of.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BadBot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I call 1/8 inch welding rod!</div></div>

Seriously? A welding rod? of all the things to use? lol

If by now you don't know, I'm the shooter of said target, I explained why the holes look as they do and posted another target I shot to see if it was more to 300sniper's approval.

This is the other target.
target100yd.jpg





 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

And at range did u shoot it at? I've used my friends randsom rest before and I couldn't get to shoot me that. And were ralki g about ammo that will hold 1 inch at 300.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

JR,

Thank you for the kind words. It is a tough target and I am still playing with some loads. I tried the Hornady 155 grain AMAX Friday. Not pretty! As to ass kissing at WAC, there were two female R.O.s last Sunday so maybe it won't be quite so debasing to beg them to let me shoot prone at the comp. range.

Or I could get my ass motivated and join one of the leagues and be allowed to do so with out the grovelling!

I have a couple B&C stocks coming (possibly Monday, 12/8) for the SPS .308 and Savage .223. I look forward to trying them out next weekend though my work schedule has become suddenly more full for the next couple weeks.

I'll give you a shout in the next couple weeks with enough notice,

Jeff
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah but then the circles are under half an inch...im not THAT good now </div></div>

Half an inch, schmalf an inch...

If we were easy, we could all do it. As far as I'm concerned, all they gots be is big enough to see and aim at.

I made my own version(s) of this target, heavy black ring, yellow center, 1/2" diameter and 1/4" diameter.

It's not about being able to nail 'em all dead center, that would be boring. It's about having a challenge that's doable, but just barely.

When the temp gets its butt up outta single digits, I'll be giving 'em a try. Yesterday, three hardy souls, yours truly included, braved the 24*F, 20-30MPH winds to shoot our Odessa FV Prone match.

Can <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> say, "Keekee, keekee, keeryst it's cold out here...".

(This being the mating call of that ornithogical wonder, the Keekee Bird, which migrate to the High North in Winter and balmy South in Summer; whose plaintive cries can be heard as it wraps its frozen feetsies around the bare branches of the Birches in February, up in the Manitoba hills. The Keekee females Migrate South in Winter, and North in Summer, and the two enormous flocks pass in flight just above the US/Canadian Border each November and May. Their mating has be referred to as a catch as catch can matter, and accounts for there being but these two flocks...)

Greg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

tried again this am.. (26F here in not sunny NJ)

55yrds
Rem 40X in .22lr

IMG00082.jpg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Now does natural point of aim still work when your shivering?
grin.gif
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

That is the key to success (natural point of aim) it's the bulky clothing that makes it more difficult.. I'm waiting for February now... when it gets really cold up here..

RJ
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now does natural point of aim still work when your shivering?
grin.gif
</div></div> Nope! I went out 2 days ago, 18F., did fine for about 30 min. Started shivering so hard I couldn't stay on bullseye. At 45min. I couldn't feel my trigger finger any longer. Bailed yesterday and went splitboarding, it was -3F.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

First attempt at posting an image... here goes nothing...
confused.gif


HidePTTarget1.jpg
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Yes!

I had to take that 14th shot again... I don't know what happened there... it felt good when I let it go.

R5, USO Canadian, 175 SMK - 44.7 Varget

I don't know about you guys... but I cant hardly see that dot behind the reticle...

Thanks Lowlight
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

I had to replace the rings on my Marlin 925R after a fall. Finally got a day to re-zero it. I took the Prac Tact. target with me but it was a no go. So I drew some circles on a paper plate.
Temp.- 9F.
Wind- all over the fucking place
Ammo- Federal 745 bulk
Rifle- Marlin 925R w/ Bushnell 4X32 Rimfire scope
Distance- 120 paces, uphill 30*, approx 105yds conservatively
Position- seated,supported w/hasty sling on a stump.
Range- in the woods
SDC10090.jpg

Got my rifle zero squared away shot these few shots and then the wind started blowing spindrift around so hard it might just as well been snowing. I could barely see the circles behind my reticle. Short of buying a new scope, any tips.
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Tips.. yeah.. I'd say we should wait for Spring..
grin.gif



RJ
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Spring here, as you would consider it, doesn't come 'til late June,early July. What fun would that be?
 
Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

tips:
get warmer clothes
don't shoot the wind with a .22
draw your circles farther apart (can't tell a hit from a miss that close)
get better ammo
keep shooting

happy holidays
smile.gif
 
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