Advanced Marksmanship Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

[A1para]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Thought I would post my first attempt.

The smaller bullet holes are from my AR. Another shooter was at the range practicing for highpower competition. He was standing in front of the benches. I didn't want to shoot from bench while he was out there so I stepped out front and shot my AR with an Aimpoint M3 kneeling. I had this target and another one side by side and was just shooting at the white paper with the AR.

I had previously zeroed my .308 Win. on the other target but since most of the AR rounds were on that target I used this one for "record" so to speak. Only 14 .308 Win. bullets were fired at this target. All I had left. Rifle was fired from a bipod and rear bag filled with plastic beads. There wasn't much wind and temperature was 50 deg.

Savage Model 10 FCP-HS with IOR 3-18x42 SFP
178 gr. Hornady Amax bullet

 

[Clark]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I have been thinking about such a target.
The median distance from center of dot to center of hole would be more useful in determining the chance I can make a shot.

If I shoot at rodents all day, I know exactly what the probabilities are.

But if I stalk a ruminant, I don't have that many data points to know the probability of the shot.

Shooting this 15 dot target at 100yards would not include my wind and range compensation efforts, but it does quantify everything up to that.

 

[Antebellum]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I know I am a newb, and only really went through the first few and last pages of this thread. But is this target meant to be shot at with a magnified optic? All I have on my AR is a Bushnell Holosight, would that be ok? I just don't wanna get discouraged if I go out to the range and my targets don't even come close to all you guys
: )

 

[Sniper1*]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

My latest attempt!

first with the AI AE 308/USO 3.2x17/Hornady 110gr TAP

second with my Rock River A4 Varmint/USO 1.8x10/Hornady 55gr TAP

 

[2manygunz]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group S

Can't wait to try this! I am not a "competition" shooter by any means. Rather, I look at rifle shooting as a practical skill. Can I get a bullet on target when necessary? This is a great exercise.

Thanks for posting.

 

[brickbd]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Great exercise, got any others?

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

brickbd - variations on the theme:

1) Timed Event: Set a reasonable par time based on your ability and your platform and run one row at a time. Variation on this - multiple target stands spaced apart, work the same dot on each target against the clock.

2) Seated and Slung

3) Weak Hand / Weak Eye

4) Odd Position / Barrier


The target is great and humbling at the same time.


Good luck

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

 

[DaveV]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Olin, you are a god

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I'm glad you noticed, no one else I know has. Gonna have to get a wheelbarrow for my big head now....

Funny, my shooting buddy emailed me back saying "Shouldn't they all be in the center?" Truth hurts.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

My first thoughts were, "Damn, nice shooting. I wonder when he's going to leg it out past 25 yards."

 

[cookietheswede]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Can some one email me the PDF for the targets? The link on the first page is down.

Thanks

 

[z71rat]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Just right click on the .jpg file on the 1st page, and save the picture to your computer. You can then pull it up and print it out. Simple.

DK

 

[Chiller]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Using the government target?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

still good driving

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Chiller:

It is the target on the page in the link, about 1/2 the page down in the postings. The dots are about 3/4". On to the 1/2" dots next and will keep the 3/4" dots for stress fire/time pressure.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1735814&page=4

 

[Chiller]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chiller:

It is the target on the page in the link, about 1/2 the page down in the postings. The dots are about 3/4". On to the 1/2" dots next and will keep the 3/4" dots for stress fire/time pressure.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1735814&page=4 </div></div>

No ill intent.

It is a joke from shooting at RO. Again like I said. Good driving.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I am a NRA RSO at my local range and I can assure you during hunting season there are several shooter who can hardly drive to MOPP (Minute Of Pie Pan).

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Yeah, lol, its all good. I'm gonna record Jacob's stress chatter you hear on those videos on the Sac PR1 and PR2 thread and play that with earbuds through an ipod next time I do that deal...

Jacob: "Hurry, hurry!!!!! Happy Mctrigger Slapper! Why won't my fkn magazine fit in my fkn gunn.......grrrrr!!!"

 

[Tomcat]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

You can buy 22 targets at Wally World. They have 12 to a page, its pretty good practice. I agree that one shot per dot is productive practice.

 

[turboranger]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Would it be wrong if I said this is the only way I shoot. Only time I group is testing loads, zeroing, ect.

 

[WTC343]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I did the dot drill twice today, talk about a humbling experience! I won't embarass myself by posting the targets, but suffice to say I need lots of work. I have shot a few times prone before, but never really gave it much thought. I thought I was a halfway decent shooter, but this is way different than shooting groups from a bench.

 

[Helidonna]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Great info here, thanks for the target as well. I will have to give it a go when I get to the range. Keep posting good skill building tips...

 

[scottsnipe]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Here is my first time trying this target, I must say this very challenging and humbling. I missed a couple but not too bad for a first time.

This is going to be my range ritual from now on....

 

[mrhog]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I tried this target today with my ar-15 and ar-10 needless to say they were not anything to show here. I think I will be using this target from now on. Even though I didn't do well; it was a fun time trying.

 

[hifly78]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Just Getting into the Dot Drills. This is a new load of mine that fairly accurate. Took 3 shots to confirm zero from previous scope setting with other loads.

100 Yards, 223 Rem, Varget 26.1 gr, Sierra 69gr HPBT. COAL 2.360" (.018" off lands) July 8th 2010, BDHACC Front. Calm 30.00"HG 90% 770' ASL 78F

My Settings 2+0.0 UP 4+2.2R Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x50 Mil on Savage 12 VLP DBM LH Prone Supported Harris 6-9S Tab rear bag.

 

[proneshooter]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">O
Here is a jpg of the actual target:

</div></div>
When I print what comes out of that link it doesn't look at all like what you show in the original post.

I need help

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

TAG

 

[LWILLIAMS]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

TAG

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Hey Guys

Frank gave me permission to put that target on our target CDROM that comes with our Data Books. I put a wind and light dial on the target, as well as some marginal data to record info. If you want this version of the target, you can download it here:

http://www.stormtactical.com/downloads.htm

RIGHT click the little SH target icon left center of page, "Save Target As" to save to your hardrive.

Enjoy. Mark

 

[Seekers]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

thanks Mark,

Seekers

 

[Youngjoonni]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Definitely separates the Pro's from the Joe's.

With that said, I'm definitely a Joe.

I've gotta spend WAY more time on the range.

 

[axeeclipse]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Love this target. I took it out this morning for a run and has showed me exactly what i need to be working on. I'll shoot no other paper then this right here!

 

[billf]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I was really glad to find this thread & target a few days ago, feels much more productive than shooting groups and a lot more fun.

My first try at this, with my stock Rem 5R in .308 with Federal Gold Match 168gr @ 100 yds. Shot from left to right from the top to bottom, I knew I pulled 2 of the shots as soon as I took them, but here it is.

bottom left was cold bore shot

bill
----

 

[SIG383]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Can't wait to try these out when I get CONUS!!

Kind of reminds me of a drill myself and some of the guys would do. tack up a bunch of playing cards on a target. One guy shoots, when the other calls out what card to hit. You also will call out cards that are not up. This target could be used the same way. Have a spotter call off a number, in no particular order as you're firing.

 

[Wicked Weapons]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

This is a very similar idea to a target my Dad used to shoot when I was a kid. I remember he had them made up special by a local print shop - but I don't know what ever happened to them. Lost to time. He would approve of me shooting these! Thanks for a great target and a good memory.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Giving this a bump so I can find it once more ............made my own dot drill and you learn more and shoot harder , than group shooting .

 

[DodgeThis]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Great thread. Will try this one soon.

 

[Choeppner99]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Gave this one a try and was humbled. I was using my Army Issued M4 with Acog, but I can't wait to get home and print out some to use with my own rifles. Really makes you concentrate and work your fundamentals.

Thanks for the bump. I wouldn't have seen this.

 

[tuckner]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Shot the 1/2" Practical Tactical target today. I think I did pretty decent. Shot with GAP Crusader and 168 FGMM at 100 yards.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

That's some excellent shooting. Its September though. Good job!

 

[tuckner]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Ha! My wife just pointed that out. It was a beautiful day, must have put my mindset back a couple months!

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I would save a good target like that for a few months too.

Just in case I need it.

Good shooting.

Jim

 

[1917]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

This target is great practice.

Storm Tactical thanks for the updated version

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Nice work Tuckner! That target kicks my ass...

 

[ubet]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Rem 700 5R, 175gr matchking 44gr varget, br2 100yds, 6-24pst

My first time shooting it. Sorry for the bad pic, took it with a cell phone.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

I shoot groups, sorta, for load testing.

I set up targets at the same distance as competition, same target type as well.

Once my zero is established and my bore is fouled, I fire one round from each load increment into a separate target, then repeat this, each increment in sequence, shot to its own increment's target, and also very importantly, in the same firing cadence as my competitive shooting string. Eventually, a group forms on each target, but each shot is really fired as a separate event.

This method duplicates in all possible manner the conditions under which the resulting load will be employed. One of the issues I have found is that unless I duplicate these conditions, a load which was developed under different conditions may full well fail to deliver when I need its best performance.

Later today, I will be performing load testing, and this will be my technique. For three of the increments, I will be firing 9 shots and for the last, 6. I think that fewer is really not properly representative; and that to be truly representative I may not be firing enough as it is. The reason I group the increments is that this tells me things that are less apparent with separate bulls.

Greg

 

[Rafael]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Yes. Good work, Tuckner!!!
Puts my target to shame.

ubet did well too!

 

[ubet]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

Thanks rafael, I could feel the ones that were miss and knew without looking, its funny how much this target gets you to pay attention and back to fundamentals!

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Practical Tactical Practice - Avoiding Group Shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BadBot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is this believable or not? there was someone on another board that was claiming how good he was so i challenged him to shoot this target at 100. i told him he could use what ever caliber he was comfortable with and he apparently chose a .22 mag out of a 77/22. i am not going to get into the fact that the holes look a like they could have been faked since i have no idea what his target backer was. i do really find it hard to believe that there is about 1/8" horizontal spread and less than 1/4" vertical in 15 rounds. maybe he is that good. i really doubted it by the way he was talking about "lapua can take you head off at 800 yards" and how awesome an accuracy international was by pretty much repeating what wikipedia said. i guess i took him for a gamer but maybe i was wrong. if i am wrong about this guy, i owe him an apology.

</div></div>

My $0.02 I mesured the dots on my monitor at .315 and the holes at.085
next i devided to arrive at 26.9%
next I entered 1/2 inch dots .5 X .26 arriving at .130

I call 1/8 inch welding rod!
YMMV

I don't suppose this guy's is a welder is he?

everyone else good shooting</div></div>
I'd say if this were shot at all it was a precision air rifle at 25ft. Back in High School I competed on the JROTC Rifle Team, I'm pretty sure the distance was 25ft but the bullseye is a pin pric and you use double ghost ring sights. 30 targets, 3 positions, 10points a peice. My best ever was a 270. Using a RWS that spit out .177 wadcutters at probably 1100fps. If this was shot in the prone with one of those rifles and a good shooter it would be believable, so I'll agree with the welding rod assessment.