I didn't realize this was discussed ad nauseum, just trying to figure out build components while I wait.
- Thread starter bohem
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So according to Patriot Valleys Instagram page, the first John Hancock has been assembled and engraved. He said barrels are waiting for customers who preordered they are just waiting on the ATF. Not quite sure what the ATF has to do with the pre order barrels, I imagine he is waiting for the ATF to ship the rifles. Anyone have any insight on what that means?
PVA got a new engraving laser, there are specs for serializing receivers and marking barrels, they might have to send in samples for approval.
Going from a "gunsmith" to a manufacturer might require a different type of FFL which could mean some jumping through hoops.
I don't know if either of those are the case but those are two ways ATF could be holding up the show.
Going from a "gunsmith" to a manufacturer might require a different type of FFL which could mean some jumping through hoops.
I don't know if either of those are the case but those are two ways ATF could be holding up the show.
I think they were trying to get a variance of some sort to mark the ARC Nucleus actions marked as PVA as the manufacturer.
I think everyone needs to take a step back and relax . We’re talking about a NEWLY released product. Be patient and you’ll get a quality product from quality people.
When the MFG who said they get the first X qty of Nucleus actions says the first rifle has been assembled, it is fine to start asking questions again we specially considering the last update we got was "late May".
I get it but this is a significant milestone if this means the first batch of Nucleus actions shipped.
That means regular customer orders are going to start shipping relatively soon and I can start trying to project when my batch will get delivered once we see order numbers from the second batch of customer actions.
Progress! We get to say "look, this isn't vapor-ware". People will be reviewing production John Hancock rifles and Nucleus actions.
We have had to wait a bit longer than expected but this might be our first look at the light at the end of the tunnel.
I'm happy, the parts I've bought for my Nucleus will have a home at some point.
That means regular customer orders are going to start shipping relatively soon and I can start trying to project when my batch will get delivered once we see order numbers from the second batch of customer actions.
Progress! We get to say "look, this isn't vapor-ware". People will be reviewing production John Hancock rifles and Nucleus actions.
We have had to wait a bit longer than expected but this might be our first look at the light at the end of the tunnel.
I'm happy, the parts I've bought for my Nucleus will have a home at some point.
Doubtful, being able to run full of dirt and still run reliably was one of Ted’s selling points with the M5. I doubt that’s not one of his selling points with this action.
Is there a precision anything that allows for "full of sand" tolerances!?!
Bolt binding is one of those things I absolutely hate and when two of my friends bought Deviants when they first came out, that had severe binding, I swore to make sure I bought an action that was the opposite.
The Nucleus I messed with at Shot was hard to get to bind, very smooth and the bolt lift, more so bolt closing, were amazing. IMO Ted has the tolerances for dirt getting in his actions and them still functioning just right. My Mausingfield worked flawlessly in the windiest and dustiest 2 day match I've been to, which impressed some onlookers in my squad that weekend. I'm guessing the Nucleus will be the same way???!!!
Once we receive the Nucleus them comes the wait for a stock, especially for me being a southpaw. Fortunately for me I have about a hour ride to McMillan.
So for those of us that ordered barreled actions early (in my case Jan 21) when can we expect delivery, since now it seems we're behind the Hancock orders?
I finally made it CONUS for a week of leave and was hoping I would have it by now, but I have plenty of other rifles to shoot so I'm not at all upset, but I wouldn't mind delaying my delivery if I could change my order to a custom/lighter barrel profile since I'm going to be OCONUS for awhile now.
I finally made it CONUS for a week of leave and was hoping I would have it by now, but I have plenty of other rifles to shoot so I'm not at all upset, but I wouldn't mind delaying my delivery if I could change my order to a custom/lighter barrel profile since I'm going to be OCONUS for awhile now.
Hey Steve, how would you compare the resistance to binding vs. a Bighorn TL3? That's the action I have most experience with, and although I love it, I did notice that it sometimes would bite a bit when the bolt was at the rear and being pushed forward with even a little upwards pressure.
I'm glad to hear the bolt lift is light. How does it compare to a standard Remington 700? About the same, a little lighter maybe? I'm assuming smoother no doubt.
Warning, speculation:
PVA's initial order of John Hancock receivers are probably marked by ARC so they can't be sold as barreled actions or bare receivers.
Assuming that PVA pre-sold more than their initial order of John Hancock rifles, that would put barreled actions somewhat behind and waiting on barrels to get cut too.
My order (with ARC) was put in on the 25th so there is a slim chance my Nucleus will beat your barrelled action but I'm still not expecting mine too soon. Hopefully July, any time in June would be outstanding. By August I'll be getting anxious again.
PVA's initial order of John Hancock receivers are probably marked by ARC so they can't be sold as barreled actions or bare receivers.
Assuming that PVA pre-sold more than their initial order of John Hancock rifles, that would put barreled actions somewhat behind and waiting on barrels to get cut too.
My order (with ARC) was put in on the 25th so there is a slim chance my Nucleus will beat your barrelled action but I'm still not expecting mine too soon. Hopefully July, any time in June would be outstanding. By August I'll be getting anxious again.
I believe Josh/PVA stated in one of his prior updates that he had ordered a large batch of actions from Ted at ARC prior to the ARC or Hancock announcement. Here is his comment.....
“Anyway, the way it's looking is that the very first actions for JHR's are going to ship to PVA at the last couple days of May. The first actions being shipped to customers are for the Hancocks, not Nucleus, as we placed a large PO before the project was ever announced and that was part of the deal. Retail actions are coming immediately after that and Ted's looking to be shipping to FFL's too.”
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Good lord I cant wait until the first batch goes out just so we can end drivel like this.
You do realize Ted had the PVA order before releasing the Nucleus to general public.
I think it's a good business move, most of the first Nucleus actions to hit the scene are going to be John Hancock rifles built with good QC and probably showing up at PRS matches.
Technically they were sold before the Nucleus action orders so although I don't like being back in the line, PVA wasn't cutting at all.
Technically they were sold before the Nucleus action orders so although I don't like being back in the line, PVA wasn't cutting at all.
Thanks for that info. I didn’t know that, my quoted comment is way off line then. So the first to be able to review the nucleus will be PVA customers, that’s interesting.
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Exact same here, you and I ordered the same thing on the same day. I was bummed out when I placed my preorder with ARC, then later PVA announces they are offering barreled actions. If I would have known that was coming, and would actually be inline before me I would have done that. Instead I ordered a Nucleus early and a PVA barrel and I'll get them later and have to assemble. Oh well, at least I'm getting this summer I hope.
I didn’t know PVA had an order in before the Nucleus public announcement so my comment wasn’t right and I’ve deleted it. But I am in the same boat, I’m basically building a Hancock with the Bravo chassis and PVA barrel on the nucleus action. Either way, I don’t think there has been any info released on a barrel wrench either so even if I got my stuff tomorrow, how would I assemble it, a strap wrench?
Can someone explain to me where this idea that PVA is delaying or cannibalizing actions from people who ordered direct came from Arc?
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It was total ignorance on my part. I didn’t know about the PVA order with ARC before the release of either. Sorry about that.
Some people don't understand that the JHR receivers were sold before ARC opened up pre-orders.
I don't like being back in the line either. It's just impatience.
I went with a 7 SAUM so I wanted to avoid going the prefit route to try and get as much meat on the shoulder of the barrel as I could. I’m wondering how it will work out.
One thing to consider with the Hancock being out there first, is us guys building our rigs from the ground up may get some good feedback on do’s and don’ts and some good performance tips. I look forward to some range reports once the guys get them in the field. Being a southpaw I’m going to be chasing a chasis or stock once I get my Nucleus. Any productive feedback on the southpaw stock/chassis is appreciated.
Same here, I'm building a Hancock because like you I jumped on the Nucleus before the Hancock or barreled actions were announced. I wish this would have gone down different because I would rather have a Hancock rifle. As is, I'll have the same rifle but it won't qualify for the same class. When the Hancock was announced, I thought real hard about cancelling my Nucleus order but I had to make a fast decision and now I'm stuck with it. Oh well.
Handled a Nucleus/Hancock today. Decently smooth despite being dry and dirty, but not quite as much as my TL3. I think it will be a very fast action though with it's bolt throw.
You're not "behind" them. These are being batches produced - if you ordered before SHOT, you'll get yours in the first batch. PVA goes out first, but that doesn't guarantee the guys that ordered them will get them first. Admin work, payment speed, payment processing, shipping, local FFL hours will all affect final delivery, but it's not like JH guys are going to have theirs in hand for weeks without anyone getting a stripped action direct from ARC.
I thought I was impatient, but some of you guys are just ridiculous
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Yea, it got ratchet it up a notch or two since I posted that haha
I bought a KRG Bravo chassis with a LH Whiskey 3 backbone installed in it,and just cut out the bolt handle notch out of the outer plastic shell. I posted pics in the DIY section of the forum.
. How did you order this? Not a option on their page. I’ll look for your pics. Thanks
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Looking at my order number vs. the lowest Nucleus order number I found, I'm not sure all pre SHOT orders could be fit in one batch. I hope so but wouldn't bet on it.
Because you know how many per batch Ted is producing? You also know how many of those orders were for the Nucleus vs everything else they sell?
If you look at the order numbers from ARC, the orders accelerated rapidly and that coincided with the Nucleus pre-order introduction.
I think there were at least 1,000 orders between the lowest order number Nucleus order I've heard of and my number. The first Nucleus order is a big chunk of JHR receivers for PVA.
I'm sure some of those 1,000 orders were for rings and Mausingfield actions but probably not at a much greater rate than last year so lots of those orders are Nucleus.
As far as the batch size, I don't know but it's probably some multiple of the heat treat or coating batch size so he's not paying minimum order rates or maybe it's how many receivers he can get out of x lengths of bar stock. Logically you would want the smallest batch size you can do without raising your unit cost so you can get a more regular income stream. Having a ton of inventory before you can ship anything is a business practice that no one wants on their books.
In other non-news, I just opened a package containing my two used ARC magazines. They fit in my chassis just fine and I bet they will work well with my Nucleus.
I'll get more later but I wanted to make sure I have something for now without buying Magpul 5 round magazines and only using them until ARC gets magazines in stock.
I think there were at least 1,000 orders between the lowest order number Nucleus order I've heard of and my number. The first Nucleus order is a big chunk of JHR receivers for PVA.
I'm sure some of those 1,000 orders were for rings and Mausingfield actions but probably not at a much greater rate than last year so lots of those orders are Nucleus.
As far as the batch size, I don't know but it's probably some multiple of the heat treat or coating batch size so he's not paying minimum order rates or maybe it's how many receivers he can get out of x lengths of bar stock. Logically you would want the smallest batch size you can do without raising your unit cost so you can get a more regular income stream. Having a ton of inventory before you can ship anything is a business practice that no one wants on their books.
In other non-news, I just opened a package containing my two used ARC magazines. They fit in my chassis just fine and I bet they will work well with my Nucleus.
I'll get more later but I wanted to make sure I have something for now without buying Magpul 5 round magazines and only using them until ARC gets magazines in stock.
So the short answer to my question is "no".
OK so we'll take your "educated guess" over Ted and Josh's word...
I don't think it will be anything like that. With enough abuse anything can be made to lock up but we took this to a Pro/Am and let everyone shoot it a couple months ago. Factory 6mm Creed ammo, we pumped 420 rounds through it in 100rd blocks. 20 shooters, 5 rounds each, 60s each. The shooting position was in dirty gravel and there's dust on everything. The Nucleus ran like a champ and the barrel, as abused as it was from that experience, still held 1/4MOA on paper with factory ammo.
It will have trigger pins in it. The Mausingfields do now too. If you end up with an action from us without trigger pins it's an accident on my part and ARC's because I keep extra pins here just in case. If that happens, we're only a phone call away from shipping out a set. Sometimes things happen, which is why I keep extra trigger pins and scope base screws for Bighorns and Mausingfields in my parts room.
Keep in mind, you may have ordered the very first Nucleus once is was announced to the public and yet you would still be over 3 months behind my first PO for actions. We (PVA) had to cut a PO to ARC for 50 actions to start, and 50 actions through the course of the year to even get the project from a collaborative thought experiment to reality.
I (We/PVA) have actually been on order for Nucleus actions for going on 9 months. We were first in line, longbefore you were. You didn't know about it because everything on the action was behind NDA. That's the way things go. There are no "keep it quiet but this is what we're doing" secrets in this industry. As soon as anyone gets a peep of anything it's blasted all over the place. So... there was no discussion about it whatsoever.
We posted on Instragram that the laser artwork for the Hancock barrels is finalized and we did a burn using the production programs. The barrels for Hancocks are waiting to have a production Nucleus/Hancock action in hand to check alignment as we only have the pre-production prototype here.
Using the prototype we have been shooting all the other production components and testing for barrel longevity (since there are some concerns that folks posted when a guy using cheap-ass button blanks says they don't last as long... not a problem with our stuff) as well as dirty function, ejection, extraction, etc.
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When you talk to them.
And if you recall, Josh posted on here in the latest update the the retail actions will ship "immediately" following the first shipment to PVA.
Well how long is immediately?
Do you think he has them all there in a row and is just slapping on shipping labels?
That would be great but the way I read it, "immediately" means as soon as I can.
I'm still skeptical of one single batch for all pre SHOT orders.
Do you think he has them all there in a row and is just slapping on shipping labels?
That would be great but the way I read it, "immediately" means as soon as I can.
I'm still skeptical of one single batch for all pre SHOT orders.
I totally get it. I just slipped through the cracks due to the unfortunate timing of trying to get in line right away. Can you clarify what you mean in bold above? Are you saying that if we ordered an action direct from ARC that we are still three months out? Thank you.
As Josh stated above in a prior reply he does not have any production actions as of yet. All he has is the initial prototype and he’s waiting for his first batch of actions. That being said we just need to be patient and it’ll eventually all come together.
Geez guys, stop beating the guy up already.
Its simple, PVA had a order in before ARC ever announced a damn thing. That puts PVA first in line for a given amount. After ARC meets that first order to PVA, they will start shipping based on their orders.
When all that will be depends on ARCs ability to produce and its completely out of PVAs hands.
Asking PVA when a ARC order will ship is dumb.
Knowing exactly when a PVA order will ship doesnt seem possible yet based on ATF and delivery schedule from ARC.
This is nothing more than wasting time asking foolish questions.
Its simple, PVA had a order in before ARC ever announced a damn thing. That puts PVA first in line for a given amount. After ARC meets that first order to PVA, they will start shipping based on their orders.
When all that will be depends on ARCs ability to produce and its completely out of PVAs hands.
Asking PVA when a ARC order will ship is dumb.
Knowing exactly when a PVA order will ship doesnt seem possible yet based on ATF and delivery schedule from ARC.
This is nothing more than wasting time asking foolish questions.
Hold on just a second! If I recall Ted did initially something like "early orders might ship in June." So now that it is June we are not that out of line to start speculating about when we are going to get them.
As a matter of fact I emailed ARC today asking that very question.
Cool, it would be nice to get an update from ARC. It's frustrating that the only updates we get are from a different company (and not Josh's responsibility). Let us know if Ted responds.
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At this point it's all from a first impression memory. I didn't have a chance to go side by side with a M700 when I played with the Nucleus that day. I did get to compare the Nucleus with a Mausingfield. I'm usually a 90 degree bolt throw fan, 60 degree feels weird to me, well the 72 degree on the Nucleus seemed just right, I liked it. If I were to opine using cars like we do around here, M700's being your regular run of the mil car, a Nucleus would be like a Porsche Boxster with it's almost telepathic steering and all those other "just right" attributes I've read about.
Sorry, I don't own a Bighorn and don't have any local friends that have one so I can't really make a comparison. Though from a feature stand point I've always wanted one and the ones I've played with felt smooth.
Nucleus - All I can say is that based off my memory it was a WOW first impression, an oh yeah, this is what I want for my next build, it checked all the boxes in the "this is what Steve prefers action cycling test" as far as the operation feel! It's mostly a subjective thing, one brand action to one guy might not give that 'ooh ahh' impression, they immediately start identifying personal yays or nays, just saying. Heck I have a certain nay with the Mausingfield that the Nucleus addressed, bolt opening feel, the Nucleus feels so much nicer to me, those dual cocking cams were a great idea.
As previously stated ARC had issues with a vendor and subsequently had to purchase machinery to produce parts in house. These parts should have been in production prior to the announcement of the Nucleus action....
To me, that says at bare minimum ARC is at least a month and a half behind their original best case scenario release date. New tooling and man power doesn't come quick or cheap and a month plus of list production time isnt often made up while trying to reconfigure a production process for items that were planned to be outsourced.
If you recall, the initial release date was April. The Late May/ Early June release came after the screw production had been resolved.
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