Recoil Induced Headaches

C

CaptainH

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Full Member
Minuteman
May 17, 2009
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Ohio
#1
I have developed what I believe is a strong association with medium to large caliber (260 & 308) rifle shooting and what I call recoil induced headaches. I used to get these quite a bit with shotgun shooting until I started creating lighter loads for my 12 gauge and getting a better fitting stock. I want to shoot rifle and shoot at long range so 22 benchrest is not in the cards for me just yet. However, the resulting headaches have become a serious problem. I have seen physicians, and I am still undergoing physical therapy to undo three days of long range at Camp Perry three weeks ago. I know what the answer is but I do not want to stop shooting big bore rifle. My problem is that I really like to shoot the longer ranges (600 – 1000) and I am having a gun built by John Whidden in Georgia in 260 Remington (MAK tube Gun), but I will change to something much milder in recoil to keep shooting if I must. So with this in mind I pose some questions.

Are there things that one can / should do to the stock or fit of a rifle to avoid or at least significantly diminish recoil induced headache? I currently use a Savage model 12 with an add on adjustable butt assembly with a real cushy recoil pad and a strap on Blackhawk cheep pad.
If yes to above, who can help me with this.
Is 6 BR a viable option out to 600 yards?

Thanks for any help or referrals.
 
#2
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I would get a surpressor for the 308, and use it on all smaller calibers. They will reduce recoil, flash and sound. A well built surpressor will improve accuracy, at the very least not deminish it.
 
#4
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

On the recoil issue, I would recommend getting as heavy of a rifle as you can easily carry and use, however that depends on if it's all prone shooting or you have to hold it up.

A good muzzle brake would help quite a bit (assuming you are shooting outdoors and not indoors), however not all matches allow them.
 
#5
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I have a muzzle brake, but you are correct, they cannot be used in NRA long range matches, which is some of what I shoot. Keep the suggestions coming.
 
#6
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I have gotten quite a few headaches with .308. But I think for me it is more of the concussion than the actual recoil. I don't like brakes for this reason. Like everyone else said:

1. suppressor
2. 6mmBR etc.
3. Weight

I have a 10lb 6mmAR that is good to 600 with ease and is a DREAM to shoot even without the suppressor.

Hope this helps.
 
#7
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I rarely get a headache with a 308 with a muzzle brake, but I get a splitting headache after only 5-10 rounds through a non-supressed and non-braked 338LM. It is a very heavy rifle, and the recoil is manageable, but the headache isn't.
I am pretty sure the headache from the 338 is from overpressure and not from actual recoil. I also am thinking the headache is actually from my sinuses due to the overpressure. I have bad sinuses and frequently get sinus headaches without even firing a rifle.

I am waiting on a supressor, but you know how that goes. It will probably be 6 months or so before I can determine if the supressor stops my headaches. In the mean time, I am going to try some Afrin nasal spray prior to shooting the LM. Hopefully this will help.

You might want to try some Afrin and see if that helps the headaches if you think it could possibly be pressure related and not recoil.


madd0c
 
#8
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I would recomend (as others have) a 6mmbr or one of its spin-offs. They will recoil much less and not to mention they are at least as acurate if not more. A suppressor will help also in both areas recoil, and noise. Hey man good luck with this and keep shooting.
 
#9
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Are the headaches a direct result of the recoil, or a result of muscle strain compounded by recoil? I sometimes get neck and sholders strains caused from shooting in awkward positions, then that translates to headaches later on or the next day. Suggest you talk with your doctor about trying some mild muscle relaxer meds to see if that might help.
 
#10
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

i shoot a 243 ai in an f class gun that is 19 pounds and there is no recoil shoots great at 600 to 1000 yds. you might try something like this. good luck and keep shooting
 
#12
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Are you wearing full muffs? A lot of concussive energy is transmitted though the mastoid process and the area around the ear. Consider plugs and muffs over them if you are not doing this already.

This is assuming you issue is concussion vs recoil. Any existing neck, back or nerve issues? Any TMJ or clinching your teeth habits while you shoot? Just some thoughts.
 
#13
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Captain, I know what you mean. I shoot anywhere from 25 to 75 rounds (minimum) each time I go to the range. I shoot light weight hunting magnums to heavy 260's/308's/WSM's. It doesn't matter what, I still get a head ache. I've found taking some Mortin or Advil an hour or so before I shoot has helped the most. It reduces the headaches and pounding I normaly get for the ride home. I also double up on hearing protection with foam plugs and muffs.
If it is recoil causing your headaches, a Tubb gun is a pretty light rifle, so that may not help you there. To reduce recoil, go to a lighter bullet and/or push it slower. This will help with recoil.
 
#14
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

What gear are you using? Have you had your position checked?
Little things like muffs, safety glass pressure, neck angle can all cause this sort of thing and may not be apparent at the time. It's very odd for something as light as a .308 to cause this unless something is wrong with your set up.
 
#15
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

A bunch of great advice above that I won't repeat (with one exception).

Suppressor -- I shoot suppressed (.308 & .260 & .223 & .22LR), it makes a big difference on .308/.260. The best brake & concussion reducer that I have used.

Cheek Weld -- How much pressure are you applying via your cheek weld? I don't claim to know the absolute doctrine on this topic but I find that when I am applying to much force via my cheek, that I tend to push my shots, get more heartbeat effect, etc. And extrapolating from one point above, the more pressure you're applying could lead to more stress being transmitted to your body.
Try this test: take a mirror to the range next time (borrow a compact). Take a couple of shots via your normal method (assuming prone or bench, obviously), check your cheek weld spot in the mirror. Are you seeing skin signs of pressure?

Instead, I rely on the bipod loading, rear bag/monopod loading as the primary support/pressure points. My touchpoints on the stock, trigger, etc. become (lighter) interface points instead of "death grip" pressure points. The only true pressure that I'm applying via my body is my shoulder pressure necessary to properly load the bi-pod.
Anyway, 2 cents worth.
 
#16
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Are you drinking enough water?

And PT after CP? How much time do you send in position dry firing each week? Or in position between matches?

It takes a bit of work for your body to be used to the prone position. I'm not in a big hurry to suspect recoil as the cause of your ills. A properly fitting sling-and-coat rifle does not induce much true recoil into the head; it is well spread out over the forward arm and the shoulder, held tightly in place by good position and technique.

My 308 bolt rifle with brake off a bag and bipod makes my shoulder hurt; my Palma rifle shot in position with the identical load and NO BRAKE does not. 66 shots on the 3x600 Saturday spread out over 3 relays and 3 matches and I felt as good or better on the last 10 as I did the first 10.

Even with all the XC and LR shooting, come a few weeks from now when I hit the smallbore league hard (unlimited sighters and 60 record shots in 1hr 15 min) I know I'm gonna have a sore neck and back.

Maybe even a headache.
 
#17
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Have you had a Cat Scan. It would be nice to rule out underlying pathology that could be causing the problem. Even if its just a chronic sinus infection, you treat the problem and you resolve the symptoms. It may also be your head and neck position when you shoot. You may be compressing blood flow to the brain while you are in your shooting position, and then causing a rebound effect after you are done. Try taking frequent breaks while you shoot and see if that changes things. Muscle relaxers would be a bad choice, especially if you try them before you shoot. If its a migraine type headache, they might respond well to a low dose beta blocker before you shoot (ask your primary MD). They are well tolerated, and will actually help your shooting (banned by the USOC and IOC for shooting events for that reason). There may be lots of ways to treat the problem, once we know the source. Give your primary doctor a chance to help out. It may be an easier fix than you think. Just my opinion, not to be confused with the facts.
 
#18
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Just a side question, are you sure that they are from the recoil? Your comment about lighter shotgun loads helped, makes me think so. I am allergic to most metals that can rub off, lead, alum, etc. So every time I go and handle my ammo, I get a headache from them. I am also allergic to a ton of smells, and gun powder is one of them that my body doesn't like, along with gun oils and cleaners. Just wondering if it is the recoil with you or maybe something else, just a thought.
 
#19
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a side question, are you sure that they are from the recoil? Your comment about lighter shotgun loads helped, makes me think so. I am allergic to most metals that can rub off, lead, alum, etc. So every time I go and handle my ammo, I get a headache from them. I am also allergic to a ton of smells, and gun powder is one of them that my body doesn't like, along with gun oils and cleaners. Just wondering if it is the recoil with you or maybe something else, just a thought. </div></div>

Your allergice to smells/esters ???

So im not crazy!!!

I always used to get a headache when my mum would cook these marinaded chops for dinner and I hated it... I eventually caught on to this and no one believed me and they told me "stop carrying on like a pork chop" pun intended.

Now whenever I go to my parents place, if she has cooked using her classical marinade, i get the same headache.
 
#20
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your allergice to smells/esters ???

So im not crazy!!!

I always used to get a headache when my mum would cook these marinaded chops for dinner and I hated it... I eventually caught on to this and no one believed me and they told me "stop carrying on like a pork chop" pun intended.

Now whenever I go to my parents place, if she has cooked using her classical marinade, i get the same headache. </div></div>

I get REALLY itchy when handing powder. Gloves and air flow help. My Father had a severe reaction to one of the chemicals in the old hoppe's 9 formula. Some asian greases burn my skin some hours after I touch it (so I can never narrow down which ones)and dust is not much better. These types of things just get worse if you don't avoid contact and protect yourself.
 
#21
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptainH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have developed what I believe is a strong association with medium to large caliber (260 & 308) rifle shooting and what I call recoil induced headaches. I used to get these quite a bit with shotgun shooting until I started creating lighter loads for my 12 gauge and getting a better fitting stock. I want to shoot rifle and shoot at long range so 22 benchrest is not in the cards for me just yet. However, the resulting headaches have become a serious problem. I have seen physicians, and I am still undergoing physical therapy to undo three days of long range at Camp Perry three weeks ago. I know what the answer is but I do not want to stop shooting big bore rifle. My problem is that I really like to shoot the longer ranges (600 – 1000) and I am having a gun built by John Whidden in Georgia in 260 Remington (MAK tube Gun), but I will change to something much milder in recoil to keep shooting if I must. So with this in mind I pose some questions.

Are there things that one can / should do to the stock or fit of a rifle to avoid or at least significantly diminish recoil induced headache? I currently use a Savage model 12 with an add on adjustable butt assembly with a real cushy recoil pad and a strap on Blackhawk cheep pad.
If yes to above, who can help me with this.
Is 6 BR a viable option out to 600 yards?

Thanks for any help or referrals.
</div></div>

If you have these problems get the 6mmBR it is viable to 1000 yards not just 600. i have seen them shot accuratly to 1200 yards with 107 MatchKings in a 26" barrel at 2850fps if the recoil is an issue the BR might be just the ticket. the 6mm BR is very close to drop and drift with a 308 using the older 155gr 2155 Sierra palma projectile to 1000 yards so there is no reason not to look there if you feel that the 260 might be an issue talk to the smith and see if you can change to a 6mm BR i am sure that if you have a medical issue and he has not fitted the barrel yet you will be OK.

Hope that helps.
 
#22
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jcwarrior87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a side question, are you sure that they are from the recoil? Your comment about lighter shotgun loads helped, makes me think so. I am allergic to most metals that can rub off, lead, alum, etc. So every time I go and handle my ammo, I get a headache from them. I am also allergic to a ton of smells, and gun powder is one of them that my body doesn't like, along with gun oils and cleaners. Just wondering if it is the recoil with you or maybe something else, just a thought. </div></div>

Your allergice to smells/esters ???

So im not crazy!!!

I always used to get a headache when my mum would cook these marinaded chops for dinner and I hated it... I eventually caught on to this and no one believed me and they told me "stop carrying on like a pork chop" pun intended.

Now whenever I go to my parents place, if she has cooked using her classical marinade, i get the same headache. </div></div>

yeah, makes for one fun life, could fill a pile of paper with stuff that gives me headaches, from either contact(my hands only) or something I smell. My mother is the same way, but with her own bunch of things, that is why I was wondering if the OP has thought about smells or the contact with his gun stuff, but don't want to thread jack. So back to you now normal programing.
 
#23
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Just a thought. When shooting 50BMG benchrest in the early 90's I would get headaches during and after a match. What helped me was to take a couple aspirin about 20 minutes before pulling the trigger and keep my mouth open while firing. Sounds weird and looks weird but a Dr. said equalizing the pressure had something to do with it. If a suppressor is possible I feel that would be the best option but the aspirin/open mouth is much cheaper if it works for you.
Semper Fi
 
#24
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your allergice to smells/esters ??? </div></div>
Yes, I'm allergic to vaporized H4350. It causes uncontrollable excitment and uforia, with a slight urge to urinate! Especially after multiple dings at 1K yards on little steel targets! Sometimes R22 and R15 have the same effect.
 
#25
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Thanks for the suggestions. The more I read and the more I get into position without shooting I am thinking it is more of a position/fitting problem that is even more aggrevated by recoil.

I have been all around the internet looking for some good information on fitting. I have also inquired locally (central Ohio) for someone to help and no luck to date. I am going to keep trying though. Any suggestions?

BTW I use plugs and muffs and have done so for years. I am conscious about taking on fluids and electrolytes. I do have a prescription shooting monocle for vision and although I do have a muscle relaxer for treatment of the headaches, I am anxious about using this prior to a match.

Keep the suggestions and comments coming and thanks. I hope other shooters are benefiting from this information sharing.
 
#26
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

mercury pistons, I shot a guys 30-378 weatherby off the bench it kicked like my 223. he had 2 mercury pistons in the buttstock , a magnum pachmayer recoil pad and a muzzle brake. on big kickers like his 500 nitro he has 3 mercury pistons in the stoc, one in the forend. Im going thru the same problem from back and neck injuries, even my 223 hurts me. I get a headace in the back of my head and neck area. I keep adding weight to my guns and going to lighter calibers
 
#27
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Fifties and I don't get along at all in regards to headaches. I believe
it is the muzzle brake though? I would get a headache and feel
sick to my stomach like I have been riding roller coasters all day.
Do not shoot them anymore problem solved.
 
#28
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your allergice to smells/esters ???

So im not crazy!!!

I always used to get a headache when my mum would cook these marinaded chops for dinner and I hated it... I eventually caught on to this and no one believed me and they told me "stop carrying on like a pork chop" pun intended.

Now whenever I go to my parents place, if she has cooked using her classical marinade, i get the same headache. </div></div>

I get REALLY itchy when handing powder. Gloves and air flow help. My Father had a severe reaction to one of the chemicals in the old hoppe's 9 formula. Some asian greases burn my skin some hours after I touch it (so I can never narrow down which ones)and dust is not much better. These types of things just get worse if you don't avoid contact and protect yourself. </div></div>
some asians burn my skin too, wait...what???
 
#29
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

IF it's a fitting issue the OP REALLY needs to fix it and not look at solutions for an issue which does not exist.
Hiding the problem does not make it go away. Working around something which can be solved will hurt his shooting.

OP, find a coach locally. Join a club for a year if you have too. You need someone who knows what they are talking about to watch you and adjust. Your now in a pattern and it's going to be a bitch to get out of it.
If you can't find someone then there should be some good books and resources for full bore and other training.
Use a .22RF to get your basics straight. Shoot it a lot.
Work into your full bore. Maybe 20 shots a session and build up. Lots of .22RF, little CF. If you have a .223 that would be a good middle step and works find out to 1K with the right loads.

At the end of this you will be a far better shooter than if you didnt have to do it
smile.gif



(I would even be tempted to ask some of the match guys VIA pm for any resources they can point you to)

oh and REALLY check your muffs are not causing resonance issues or your glasses are not compressing with your muffs. Temple or pressure around the ears can cause pain.
 
#30
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 95LTZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a thought. When shooting 50BMG benchrest in the early 90's I would get headaches during and after a match. What helped me was to take a couple aspirin about 20 minutes before pulling the trigger and keep my mouth open while firing. Sounds weird and looks weird but a Dr. said equalizing the pressure had something to do with it. If a suppressor is possible I feel that would be the best option but the aspirin/open mouth is much cheaper if it works for you.
Semper Fi</div></div>

Listen to what he's saying. Recoil doesn't cause head ace's it causes sore shoulders. I wouldn't totally dismiss the allergy parts that some guys mentioned. However I think that you may be sensitive to pressure changes, and thats causing your head aces. The opening your mouth is a trick that most Infantry guys should have learned. It really helps with extreme pressure changes. Another thing that could be screwing with you is bad sinuses. Try some Vicks nose spray about 20min before you shoot and that might help too. I ain't a doctor so I can't remember what it's called when your ear's won't POP when you shut your mouth, eyes, and hold your nose and blow. However if you can't get them to pop like that then you've probably found your problem. Do you fly regularly? Do you get head ace's when you fly? If you do it's probably pressure related. My wife get's those alot just driving up into the mountains. Recoil and gun fit ain't the problem.
 
#31
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

I have been getting headaches as well, and I used to think they were the result of recoil and back blast. However, I am now using a suppressor so I'm inclined to think they are more from eye strain and muscle tension in the back of my neck and lower scull. I have found that a healthy dose of aspirin prior to shooting helps quite a bit. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck……
 
#32
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Have you ever considered that most ranges are covered with grass, and that what you may be experiencing might be hay fever?

I tend to get headaches after mowing. That's pretty much the only time I do.

Greg
 
#33
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

ive always gotten headaches after a shooting session, just figured it was mywacky sinuses or an inner ear thing and dont worry about it. usually only hits after im done at the range so...
 
#35
Re: Recoil Induced Headaches

Concussion from shooting is no joke. Look at where you are shooting. WHat is the concussion bouncing off of? If it is directed back toward you it's like getting little taps everytime you shoot. If you have walls or a floor and ceiling where you are shooting, move your mat out and away and shoot positions in the open. It makes a huge difference. Each and everytime we had to train GI's in teh indoor range as a Shooting Coach I would go home at the end of the day with a headache from the concussion from the tily position walls all day. Indoors those little mouse guns pack a wallop after coaching all dang day
 
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